1 Thing ALL Home Bike Mechanics Should Know

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1 Thing ALL Home Bike Mechanics Should Know

Рет қаралды 20,117

The Bike Sauce

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 120

@feedbackzaloop 6 ай бұрын

Props to going an extra mile for all the disbelievers! One more counterargument for them might be "yes, torque is torque, but what the scale shows is not torque, but spring preload". I think this argument is a good gateway to concept of indirect measurements and basis of powermeter inaccuracy

@thisishowiedewitt76 6 ай бұрын

Nerd alert!🚨 Just kidding. I actually appreciate you going down the rabbit hole a bit and explaining in layman’s terms how click type torque wrenches work.

@christopher1931 6 ай бұрын

This guy will find a way to use math in EVERYTHING.. i hate math

@leonkowalski4006 6 ай бұрын

for a beam style torque wrench it is absolutly crucial to hold the wrench in a specific spot. that's the reason why they have either a ball for a handle or a handle that is on a swivel. there are dial indicator torque wrenches where the moment arm doesn't matter, because the interals are indipendent from the externals. the funny thing is, i tried to explain to one of my high school theachers that it does matter where you hold a click type torque wrench, but he coulnd't unterstand the concept of it. after about a 15 minutes discussion i gave up and said forget about it.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Yea you’re right about the ball handle on the beam style wrenches. It’s bc of the deflection profile in the beam yea?

@timshelhamer7374 6 ай бұрын

I need to borrow that digital torque meter to calibrate my hand.

@peterho3299 6 ай бұрын

Another awesome video that provides an easily understandable explanation based on scientific principles. Kudos. And I love the flashing reference to Peak Torque. 😂😂

@hugorivera9738 6 ай бұрын

Hahaha peak torque, I’m glad you watch his videos or know who he is. I love his videos as a fellow engineer

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Solid channel

@Larpy1933 6 ай бұрын

Whoa! Clear thinking. Clear speaking. You da man. You’re an outlier on YT - not to mention the planet. Your video production values are a treat. Thanks.

@TalkingSasquach 6 ай бұрын

As a professional bike mechanic and a KZfaqr, this is awesome! Great job!

@MountainGoat69696 6 ай бұрын

Awesome explanation and it is great you are sharing this. I am an engineer and fully understand, also the readings can also be affected if you have an extension on the socket as well. Cheers

@Choltec 6 ай бұрын

Please keep up the nerdy tech stuff! You are excellent at explaining these kind of things in a straightforward concise, yet entertaining manner!

@Jam789 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for your info, I committed this mistake for a long time

@teddgram 6 ай бұрын

After watching your previous video, I bought the beam torque wrenches and called it a day.

@tamiral-hadari2982 6 ай бұрын

Great video as always, now let's dig deep and talk about how lubrication effect torque values, are stated torque values for bicycles meant to be dry or wet, most stem bolts, seat post collar bolts, seat clamp bolts, and brake caliper bolts that come on bikes are dry (maybe with some thread lock); Apparently using lubrication will reduce the required torque by 25-40% 🤔, can we have a video about this please ✌

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

🤔 interesting

@thedownunderverse 6 ай бұрын

Spat my coffee out with the pic of Peak Torque

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

😄 credit where due.

@johndef5075 6 ай бұрын

So use the handle I guess😊 Enjoyed the demonstration.

@benjaminpk 6 ай бұрын

This is great. I always wondered about this with my torque wrench.

@ConsciousEnneagram 6 ай бұрын

God, I love these nerding out videos. Please keep them coming!!!

@miggyruru 6 ай бұрын

great video. Thank you for presenting this information.

@Jinedan 6 ай бұрын

You blinded me with science! :)

@JustMikeH 6 ай бұрын

I never knew this. Well explained, thank you!

@ichallengemydog 6 ай бұрын

Nerds own torque wrenches. The ultimate nerd owns a torque meter lol

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

😆 I suppose you’re correct

@redgar6467 6 ай бұрын

Thanks. Your torque wrench videos have been very helpful.

@BruceChastain 6 ай бұрын

great video thank you

@alextorresphoto 6 ай бұрын

Great explanation! Physics wins again!

@jackpoell1673 6 ай бұрын

Now I understand why I torqued some bolts wrong to even snap. Thanks.

@jacekwitusik 6 ай бұрын

It's always great, when you can prove something in an experiment. I saw the "nerd-out" video a while ago and agreed with the math. Today I thought that something doesn't 'click' o-) If the the distance from pivot point to clutch is constant and the outer handle is rigid, it should not matter where you hold it. And it doesn't - for the clutch mechanism. In your experiment, we see a recorded maximum torque, so it gave me another idea. When the wrench clicks, the inner beam strikes into the outer handle. I had an idea, that when we put pressure on a wrench by hand, and then it slips (clutch disengages), the overall maximum torque at the moment of the inner beam striking the outer handle is greater than at the moment of "the click". And this impact would be bigger when we shorten the handle, use more force, and have less control. And also, with a longer handle and more control when using less force, the strike could not exceed the torque at the moment when the clutch disengages. This might be accounted for in the calibration process, for the correct handle length. That was my theory for why the recorded maximum torque value changes with the change in handle length. I still agree that the wrench needs to be held at the right length. But then I did two things. I watched the previous video again, and yep - you are completely right o-) You say that there is no difference for the clutch where you grab the wrench. But it is calibrated to take into account the distance from the pivot point and socket axis. Which could still be in line with my theory. I watched the experiment at 0.25x speed to see that the torque value exceeded the setting BEFORE the clutch gave away. Making everything correspond with the math and busting my weird ideas. Good job.

@TimR123 6 ай бұрын

I got a chuckle out of the “Science” hat. I was going to say that the last video in this was the scientific one and this was not. But wrong You’ve just ventured from theoretical to experimental science 😂. Nice demo to make it real. The torque math video was actually how I discovered your channel. As much as I enjoy the channel (You’re on my ‘must see’ list when they come out), I’d love to see a bit more science content. Maybe on material use in bikes? Keep up the good work m

@user-zu4nl7bm9e 6 ай бұрын

this episode is good, I thought the shorter arm to the torque head will have lower force, but actually opposite. lmao, thankful I didn't damaged the carbon parts. I always use the left hand push the torque wrech haed to the screw and use the right hand hold the edge of the grip at the far side.

@dennisfloyd8514 6 ай бұрын

Why I love your channel.

@austinsp00l24 6 ай бұрын

Love the science videos.

@davidnewman4290 6 ай бұрын

Excellent, great information. Thank you!

@markholm7050 6 ай бұрын

Great explanation and demonstration. Thanks.

@dodginglions5163 6 ай бұрын

A lot of very good information in this video!…thanks for making it and sharing it with us!…😎

@Volkmannx 6 ай бұрын

I knew, but totally forgot 😁 so thanks for the reminder!

@Zegadan 6 ай бұрын

Absolute facts, thanks for the examples! This definetively will save a lot of carbon parts out there.

@joelguerin-simard3415 6 ай бұрын

My mind is blown, thank you

@tomreingold4024 6 ай бұрын

You make excellent videos. Thank you.

@hudskytomas 5 ай бұрын

Hey, awesome videos on the science behind torque wrenches. Recently, I had to use a crowfoot attachment on a click-type torque wrench which extended the length from pivot point 33mm (center of the drive to center of the crowfoot wrench). I could not figure out, how to properly set the torque wrench to get desired torque on the bolt. I am still scratching my head, do you have any ideas how to calculate the proper set torque?

@ESR66 6 ай бұрын

Can you do a video on good budget torque wrench.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Good idea

@kimberlybasinger-js1gf 6 ай бұрын

Didn’t know that, thanks for the info!

@jesse7852 6 ай бұрын

What’s even going to throw you for a loop, the friction within a threaded interface is inherently nonlinear to where +/-25% is a reasonable estimation of the preload generated by a torquing operation.

@dv270salto7 6 ай бұрын

Well done!

@davidcrowson4745 6 ай бұрын

Excellent sir 👍

@CharlieMetcalf 6 ай бұрын

Good video, thanks!

@rivnuts7398 6 ай бұрын

Also, I believe, that the actual force applied to the joint also depends on whether the bolt being tightened has been greased or not. If it hasn’t, then a portion of the applied torque is applied within the bolt itself rather than the joint. That reduces the amount of force actually applied to the joint.

@dufindschmichehnie7710 6 ай бұрын

its the friction coefficient that changes within the thread. the lower the friction coefficient the lower the force needed to loosen the bolt. using grease the applied torque has to be higher. therefore grease does not affect the applied torque.

@lumberjack0805 6 ай бұрын

I have a B.S.M.E. and am licensed professional engineer. This topic of torque was a problem we explored and tested in college. I will begin in general and then provide actual engineering to discuss in more details of what is actually happening. When you torque a fastener, you are applying a "clamping force". The bolt stretches and maintains the tension when torqued to the correct specification. This tension locks it in place. On one hand, failure to use grease will increase friction and make it less likely to loosen, however, on the other hand failure to use a lubricant may prevent you from actually achieving the desired amount of clamping force. The proper amount of clamping force will allow that fastener to work as it was designed to perform. Too much clamping force applied will cause the fastener to not work as it was designed to perform and the fastener will be rendered useless. Both clamping force from bolt stretch as well as friction will help prevent loosening but clamping force is more predictable and thus the standard used. If you want to increase friction you wouldn't remove the grease and run the fasteners bare, you'd instead use a thread locker of your choice which increases the contact/surface area between the threads and allows the clamping force to maintain. Now the actual engineering to discuss in more details of what is actually happening. This can best be explained by the following videos: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/obqno6Rj3rCcYaM.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nLRplZZz3rjMZ3U.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gNdja7KWm9KxdZs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ncVzl6tkt7DHYGg.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n5-DfcV0qNWlc5s.html From my experience, I tend to used grease on fasteners that are 5mm or larger. I ONLY add grease to the lower threads (yes it spreads to the upper threads) and do NOT apply to the base of the fastener head since that friction is also required to keep the fastener in place. I use thread locker on fasteners that are 4 mm or smaller. Your results may vary. Probably way more than you want to know, however, you asked and I answered. -Larry

@markday1714 6 ай бұрын

great content, thanks!

@jeffandersen6233 6 ай бұрын

Well done. Great hat too. I want one.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

@skratchlabs is where I got mine 🙌

@jeffandersen6233 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for the link and for taking time to reply.

@jhoff80 6 ай бұрын

I find that the other potential issue I have with the Park Tool one is that its clicks aren't always very distinct. Have to admit I've been eyeing that expensive Wera SafeTorque just because it physically won't allow you to apply any force past the limit you set it to.

@MarioGoatse 6 ай бұрын

This is a great video, but you picked the wrong title IMO. This video is much more interesting to tool lovers, or just DIY'ers in general, not just home bike mechanics. I'd have titled it differently. Something like "Here is why a Torque Wrench Is Not Always Accurate" or similar. It's catchy, and it's aimed at a wider audience. Not really a criticism though, more so advice as your video is super helpful to everyone, and I really enjoyed it. Great video though. Thank you!

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Thx! I considered the audience as well. I intentionally niched down to bike mechanics bc similar vids exist in the general / automotive space

@MarioGoatse 6 ай бұрын

@@TheBikeSauce Fair enough. You nailed the video though. Great job!

@jered2177 6 ай бұрын

Good info

@CookieManCookies 6 ай бұрын

No need to be a nerd, just read the documentation. I typically use bestool kanon japanese torque wrenches, they have a ring on the handle that you put your finger on to torque it accurately within 3%.

@Sooperhans3636 6 ай бұрын

Message received, but a digital torque wrench! 😁

@davidide1525 6 ай бұрын

Very well done video! What about my Effetto Mariposa Gusta Forza torque wrench? Thanks, Dave

@iliinsky 6 ай бұрын

Yep, looks like it’s the same fundamental technology. The key is that pivot point that goes through the main shaft just below the head.

@DerRofflers 6 ай бұрын

can you compare dry vs wet torquing with the torque meter too?

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Wet torquing sounds like it might get flagged by KZfaq

@VeloObscura 6 ай бұрын

200nm Torque Wrench!!! What the hell do you use that for!? 😅

@allenkuo5249 6 ай бұрын

My digital torque wrench (Shimano PRO) uses a pivot like the click-style torque wrench. I was under the assumption that because of the pivot, it still requires the practice of applying force at the correct spot on the handle. Correct me if I'm wrong, as you stated it doesn't matter for digital torque wrenches.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Hmm, well the fact that there’s still an offset pivot suggests that maybe in this case it actually is length dependent

@avocette 6 ай бұрын

Are the T-handle, preset torque wrenches length-dependent or independent? In tight spaces I tend to use my fingers on the end of the handle, and I'm worried that it might affect the torque applied.

@yonglingng5640 6 ай бұрын

Preset torque keys are independent. You just keep tightening until it clicks or slips. They're great if you're dealing with just one torque spec or if you deal with said torque spec frequently. That's why I got my 5 Nm Prestacycle Pro TorqKey (clicks then springs back upon reaching torque spec). That, and I'm also lazy to keep whipping out my 1/4-inch torque wrench whenever I'm doing cockpit refinement work as I don't want to keep winding it up and down.

@iliinsky 6 ай бұрын

Do we know they’re independent? Probably depends on the mechanism they use.

@lolbubs11111 6 ай бұрын

Well damn, I knew there was a right place to hold them, I just thought it was at the very end. Mine doesn't have a clearly marked better location to hold. I'll have to see if there's a manual somewhere.

@BillSmithPerson 6 ай бұрын

The awesome part: there’s a special instrument just for measuring a torque wrench’s torque.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

But what calibrates the machine..?

@subliminalfreedom 6 ай бұрын

❤

@qualifierone8899 6 ай бұрын

How about spokes?

@Kyleridesbikess 6 ай бұрын

Ever use a T-handle type? wonder how it would compare in your fancy machine

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Funny you mention that. Fergus from Ritchey gave me one to test out because he was curious too. I’ll report back

@pisto_run_cycling 6 ай бұрын

What about the double click people do.. or when you turn the torque wrench with too much speed and or force if that makes sense.. im only saying that because im a diesel mechanic.. and those I've heard and seen that give you an inaccurate torque..

@jaskajokunen3716 4 ай бұрын

Unless youre doing headbolts or something, double clicking really doesn't matter. Might over torque stuff but its so minimal i would say it doesn't matter if youre only changing wheels oil pans or something. If you use too much force/leverage/speed whatever, youre gonna over torque or just break the torque wrench lol

@dv270salto7 6 ай бұрын

Oh..I actually take my new torque wrenches (simple ones) apart, and using weights on string, clamp the wrenches into a vice and calibrate them myself...using a known weight at a known distance from the center of rotation, not the trip mechanism offset point, wrench held level in the vice, weight gradually applied till the weight hangs free. Loosen or tighten the spring till the torque reading is close to what the math says it should be. Seems to work...

@iliinsky 6 ай бұрын

But it only works if your string is tied in the correct place around the handle. Do your new wrenches arrive uncalibrated?

@dv270salto7 6 ай бұрын

The wrench I bought wasn't very $$ and was for lower torque values. I wrapped the string holding the weight (which I had calibrated at a supermarket!)at the very end of the handle, clamped the wrench socket holding pivot point in a vice with the wrench end at about 80 degrees from the vertical then gradually allowed the weight to hang free such that the "tripping" juuuust ocurred when the weight wasfully applied. Moving the string closer to the pivot point resulted in the same weight NOT tripping the wrench. Must be close to being adusted correctly!! Better than it was "out of the box" (I hope).!Wrench is a Lowe's Kobalt 1/4" torque wrench.@@iliinsky

@iliinsky 6 ай бұрын

Yes, you have experimentally verified that where you apply pressure matters. That is entirely compatible with the point of this video that is that force position on the handle matters and you will get different applied torque at the same click rating depending on where you put the pressure on the handle. A better process would be to hang the weight from the intended pressure point in the middle of the handle. Most torque wrenches are spec’d to around 4% accuracy or better at the factory. I’d be curious if yours remain that close after your recalibration.

@jimogg3912 6 ай бұрын

Great video. Is there going to be a test on this? If so, please send review materials.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

😄 please review the course notes for specifics

@KOL630 6 ай бұрын

This is interesting but in what scenario are you ever going to hold the wrench in any other place than the designated handle?

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

There’s a long standing debate about using extensions. Also this same concept applies to using a crows foot. Should be basically 90 degrees so you don’t affect the pivot to axis of rotation length

@yonglingng5640 6 ай бұрын

One of my ex-colleagues chokes the torque wrench. Worse yet, he spam-torques. Worst of all, this torque wrench's calibration is already off, only a few months after it started seeing use. Nobody resets it back to the lowest setting when it's not in use other than me, but because I already have my own (still in-calibration to this day), I could care less about the shop's. Their problem, not mine. The torque wrench in question, is an Effetto Mariposa Giustaforza 2 - 16 Nm torque wrench (no ratcheting head).

@muthatrucker6485 6 ай бұрын

Yeah? But what is a Nooten?

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

😆😆

@bugeyesprite119 6 ай бұрын

Great video, thanks!

@SonnyDarvishzadeh 6 ай бұрын

I was ready to call it BS until you slapped me with the real torque meter. I don't like this loss at all.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

😄

@ccarlock8537 6 ай бұрын

I love it, Wera rules!!!!!!!

@mattkennedy1203 6 ай бұрын

The bad thing about Wera torque wrenches is that they can only go 1 way! Some other brands do this also, but you can’t torque counter clockwise. It doesnt matter all the time, but doing something like installing a UDH is not possible. Love Wera and own their stuff, but I don’t like their torque wrenches. The Unior digital ones are the best I’ve used

@user-zu4nl7bm9e 6 ай бұрын

a bit lower won't damage the parts at least, a 'bit' higher will.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Yes! It does seem that way. The math in our previous video agrees with that finding as well

@adrian.m258 6 ай бұрын

Digital Topeak torque wrenches are length dependent.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

Interesting. Do they have an offset pivot?

@openwheelracing88 6 ай бұрын

What about the length of the socket/bit?

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

That post doesn’t contribute to the applied torque, so you don’t need to consider it

@Alistair_Spence 6 ай бұрын

Haha! Peak Torque!

@BillSmithPerson 5 ай бұрын

Park Tool weighs in: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pMlmmdSfq5u4YnU.htmlsi=nKfcFDtADJVpfccn

@TheBikeSauce 5 ай бұрын

Ha! Funny that video was just released. Wish they’d link my derivation / explainer vid 😄

@highdownmartin 6 ай бұрын

I’ve never used a torque wrench on a bicycle.

@TheBikeSauce 6 ай бұрын

🤯🤯🤯

@user-hy7cg9jg5r 6 ай бұрын

After some amount of experience, you learn how to torque your fasteners by feel, disregarding your torque wrench. Probably not for head bolts, but certainly for most fasteners... and certainly for all fasteners on a bicycle.