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10 Cities That Devote Prime Urban Land To the Lowest, Worst Use: The World Capitals of Too Much Golf

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CityNerd

CityNerd

Күн бұрын

If you were building a city from scratch today, in 2022, how would you prioritize land uses? Would you build dense, mixed use communities around fast, frequent rail service? Or would you reserve that land for extremely low density, low intensity recreational uses that are mostly accessible only to the physically able and financially well-off? In other words...would you build golf courses around close-in metro stations and tram lines?
Today we're looking at ten cities around the world that have done precisely that. On our global tour, we'll discuss the rationale (or lack thereof) for building and maintaining urban golf courses, ponder alternative uses, and shame cities that are getting it wrong.
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Other CityNerd Videos referenced:
- High Speed Rail: Mexico Edition: • High Speed Rail vs. Ca...
- Golf vs Housing: • Golf Courses vs. Housi...
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Resources:
- www.halrealesta...
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Music:
CityNerd background: Caipirinha in Hawaii by Carmen María and Edu Espinal (KZfaq music library)
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Inquiries: nerd4cities@gmail.com

Пікірлер: 1 000
@s-williams
@s-williams 2 жыл бұрын
"I'm absolutely going to butcher these indigenous names", he says, hilariously, after, with no disclaimer, butchering the pronounciations of Brisbane and Melbourne. 😭
@robojimtv
@robojimtv 2 жыл бұрын
Brisbin and Melburn
@kierannelson2581
@kierannelson2581 2 жыл бұрын
And pronouncing Yeerongpilly and Moorooka quite well.
@Chootin
@Chootin 2 жыл бұрын
I think most Americans would say Brisbane more like a local if they just forgot about all the vowels in the second half of the name. "Brisbn"
@kierannelson2581
@kierannelson2581 2 жыл бұрын
@@Chootin yep. Or just think of taking your bins out. Bris-b'n, Mel-b'n.
@justcommenting4981
@justcommenting4981 2 жыл бұрын
Bonbon and Machinima?
@adithyaramachandran7427
@adithyaramachandran7427 2 жыл бұрын
Delhi is home to some of the world's most corrupt politicians who were responsible for taking away land, often from lower income people, to build massive golf courses in a city stressed for freshwater. I'm not surprised it ranked so high. With that said, Greenspace is desperately needed in most Indian cities. I would gladly welcome more. Hyderabad has a big park and lake at the center of the city, and that's the kind of land use I would like to see more frequently used.
@BikeHelmetMk2
@BikeHelmetMk2 2 жыл бұрын
Agree 100%. Places like Central Park, Stanley Park, etc are critical to helping people living in the city have a connection to nature. Sometimes you have to get away from the concrete and noise, and sit under a tree.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Good to hear that perspective, although kinda depressing. Thanks for the comment.
@Stache987
@Stache987 2 жыл бұрын
Hyderabad, known for scam call centers.. anytime an American gets a Indian on the phone, it's most likely soon to be a scam. (Turban type, not teepee type)
@sparklesparklesparkle6318
@sparklesparklesparkle6318 2 жыл бұрын
@Zaydan Naufal So....communism failed Tirana?
@mvalthegamer2450
@mvalthegamer2450 2 жыл бұрын
@Zaydan Naufal Mumbai does have a lot of green cover in the north.
@holaun3892
@holaun3892 2 жыл бұрын
I love these worldwide videos that show the US and Canada aren't always alone in bad urban planning. Could you do a video about which North American cities are moving in the right direction in building transit-oriented development and improving their transit systems?
@Jacksparrow4986
@Jacksparrow4986 2 жыл бұрын
That would be either a very short list or unapprobriate on this channel as it's not depressing enough.
@plaguebomb2712
@plaguebomb2712 2 жыл бұрын
Well, LA is
@michaelimbesi2314
@michaelimbesi2314 2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see that. My home of Arlington VA would probably show up on that list
@Geotpf
@Geotpf 2 жыл бұрын
@@plaguebomb2712 Yup. From an admittedly low start, Los Angeles is in full on BUILD ALL THE THINGS mode. Last time I checked there were eight separate passenger rail projects under active construction in greater Los Angeles and dozens in various planning stages.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
@@Jacksparrow4986 sad but true
@Chootin
@Chootin 2 жыл бұрын
Brisbane has only recently (within the last year) started re-working the Victoria Park golf course a stones throw from the CBD into a massive public park. It's already seeing a lot of use as a community space.
@rattlesnake3225
@rattlesnake3225 2 жыл бұрын
Still alot of work to be done tho. The long string of huge golf courses snaking down the Brissie River and into the Southern Suburbs from St Lucia and beyond is so alarming in a city with such little available housing already.
@uNkryh
@uNkryh 2 жыл бұрын
I like how he apologised for butchering indigenous names when their pronunciation was alright compared to the American way of saying "Melbourne" and "Brisbane" :D
@cmacca9109
@cmacca9109 2 жыл бұрын
@@rattlesnake3225 yeah, but most of that riverside land is very flood prone and relatively inaccessible due to locations on the tips of peninsulas - that includes the Indooroopilly, St Lucia, Royal Queensland, Bulimba, and Brisbane Gold Clubs. The only central and very accessible golf course is Victoria Park, which is being redeveloped.
@ActiveAussie2024
@ActiveAussie2024 2 жыл бұрын
@@cmacca9109 I agree. I ve lived near some of these golf courses. A lot of them are in areas that are flood prone , or even subject to severe flooding. Look at what happened to Rocklea, Yeerongpilly ( along Fairfield Rd ) and Oxley a few months ago. Indooroopilly course also will flood in areas. The whole area around Long Pocket is not suitable for development anyway. Would be a traffic bottleneck. That area was also a rubbish tip from mid 77 till early 81. Not suitable for housing, but could have been a nice park Amazing views from there.
@b_uppy
@b_uppy 2 жыл бұрын
Golf courses see a lot of use as well and contribute to surfacewater recharge. They reduce heat island effect as well and can reduce flooding. Did they keep it greenspace or did they pave over most of it and call it 'improved'.
@tonysoviet3692
@tonysoviet3692 2 жыл бұрын
9:05 As a very rare Vietnamese studying North American urban planning for a masters degree, I can add that golf courses in the middle of the city, specifically in airports, within China and elsewhere in SEA or East Asia, serve as "land banks" for future expansions and development. That's also why they have prebuilt public transit infrastructure.
@plaguebomb2712
@plaguebomb2712 2 жыл бұрын
Well, since their real estate bubble is bursting it's probably gonna stay golf for long in China
@robertcartwright4374
@robertcartwright4374 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting.
@Robbedem
@Robbedem 2 жыл бұрын
and what's the tipover point to close the golfcourse and build stuff? It seems to me that some places are a long way over that point. ;)
@BikeHelmetMk2
@BikeHelmetMk2 2 жыл бұрын
@@Robbedem China thinks over spans of decades or centuries, not single digit years. What's needed right now might not be needed in 2030. They likely have a plan to release the land over time, and won't deviate, as it's more of a pain later to tear down skyscrapers and build something different. They may also be waiting for new construction methods that unlock even greater density/volume. Lots of Chinese buildings are cookie cutter (effectively), but the last remaining land in huge metro areas is extremely valuable, and deserves construction that matches the land.
@tonysoviet3692
@tonysoviet3692 2 жыл бұрын
@@Robbedem Normal economics, or "Friedman economics" don't really apply in China. There is no economic tip over point, these golf courses are there to rigidly maintain the "land banks", because without them, local governments can secretly sell them to private developers without official approval. They just found that having these golf courses provide an income stream so that the local governments have less incentives to sell precious lands that are not conforming to the "Master Plan".
@AppleCheese12345678
@AppleCheese12345678 2 жыл бұрын
The best part of COVID lockdown was that they opened all of my city's golf courses to use as general use parks / walking trails. My place at the time was right next to one of these courses and it was the first time I got to actually use the space. There were so many more people in the (now) park than there ever were golfers.
@teypriest3466
@teypriest3466 2 жыл бұрын
this sounds so cool, is this city in the us?
@augustvonmackensen3902
@augustvonmackensen3902 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do a video explaining why orbital bus routes are so few and far between, even in dense cities when they are potentially so useful? Perhaps combine this question with some more info on why bus and transit routes tend to have the characteristics they have and what goes into choosing them.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting stuff! Thanks.
@NelsonBrown
@NelsonBrown 2 жыл бұрын
Bus? If you have an orbiter you should call it a shuttle!
@TheTransitCamera
@TheTransitCamera 2 жыл бұрын
@@NelsonBrown Tempe, AZ brands theirs as 'The Orbit'
@jacktattersall9457
@jacktattersall9457 2 жыл бұрын
TTC has an excellent crosscity bus network on Toronto's major arterials which can serve an orbital role.
@Lildizzle420
@Lildizzle420 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheTransitCamera I live in Tempe, that's exactly what I was thinking about. our system is fantastic for transit users
@robertfrancis9743
@robertfrancis9743 2 жыл бұрын
First found your channel looking for info and analysis, but keep coming back for the world class snark. Keep up the good work.
@robertcartwright4374
@robertcartwright4374 2 жыл бұрын
Me too.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Info and analysis are fun, snark pays the bills
@rothjoseph
@rothjoseph 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd Snark makes the depressing bearable.
@mattburns815
@mattburns815 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd love this! LOL.
@LoboLakerGaming
@LoboLakerGaming 2 жыл бұрын
Binge watching your videos the past week, I’ve realized how much land in my hometown has been utterly wasted on parking. Hometown is a peninsula, so land is limited, and so much of it is used as parking for a damn Hobby Lobby.
@jfwfreo
@jfwfreo 2 жыл бұрын
Anytime I see big expanses of open air car park I wonder "why can't they build some multi-story parking, fit the same parking in less space and then turn the rest into more productive uses?"
@Geotpf
@Geotpf 2 жыл бұрын
@@jfwfreo A lot comes down to the value of land. If land is cheap, so is turning it into a parking lot. The cost of construction of a parking garage might be something like ten times that of a parking lot, per space, not counting land value.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Awful -- I do want to do more on parking in the future, but it's hard to trim a concept down to 15 minutes!
@LoboLakerGaming
@LoboLakerGaming 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd If you want to rip your head off, look at all the suburbs north of Dallas. Housing is skyrocketing in cost, both homes and apartments for rent. Tons of new development in the far north of the metro, contributing to more urban sprawl with zero transit connectivity. But god forbid we use half the shuttered mall’s parking lot to build literally anything productive.
@colormedubious4747
@colormedubious4747 2 жыл бұрын
@@LoboLakerGaming As I've heard, there are THREE "dead mall" redevelopment projects underway in the north Dallas 'burbs. It appears that God did not forbid it...
@kamilb.3643
@kamilb.3643 2 жыл бұрын
Kraków (Poland) has quite big area of former industrial sediment basins, so called "White Seas" ("Białe Morza"), close to densely populated areas. Since 1990 this area become a semi-wild meadows and forests. Half of the terrain was devoted to a catholic sanctuary, for the other part the city wanted to lent it for a private investor to create a golf course. Btw, there is a rail line going right by with regional trains stopping. After few years, this private investor did not make any progress. Now the local citizens strongly say that they prefer to dismiss the idea of a golf course and preserve most of its semi-wild character, by creating an open-to-public semi-wild park with few sport facilities, like e.g. football, volleyball or tennis fields.
@ilajoie3
@ilajoie3 2 жыл бұрын
An open to the public park would have been immensely better than a golf course to begin with
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Very cool. I actually did look at Krakow for this!
@aphillips4703
@aphillips4703 2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video with most/least downtown surface parking
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
I like it, but I'm trying to figure out how to do the accounting efficiently
@tylermatteson7289
@tylermatteson7289 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd Per capita + annual tourists, per square mile/km in "downtown". No, not easy.
@AaronSmith-sx4ez
@AaronSmith-sx4ez 2 жыл бұрын
CityNerd should do a video on the effect of property taxes. For the most part property tax is subdivided by "improvements" and "land". Most of the tax based is skewed toward "improvements" but should be skewed toward "land". Taxing the latter encourages efficient land uses and discourages golf courses. Japan tried this to great success (taxing land over improvements). The other issue is that property taxes are created mostly by local governments and "chamber of commerce" types that give their preferred businesses discounts and even no property taxes which is completely corrupt. Moving property tax to more of a state-wide jurisdiction might be a solution. I suspect most golf courses you showed on this video have substantial property tax discounts that were setup by insider local politicians.
@stevelewis7501
@stevelewis7501 2 жыл бұрын
Yes this is a great idea, though very difficult to cover well from an international perspective.
@mushroomsteve
@mushroomsteve 2 жыл бұрын
In Eugene, a lot of our property taxes are voted on through local option levies. There might be a 5-year local option levy to fund/improve parks, libraries, schools, roads, etc. Each area might get its own levy, like one to fund improvements to parks. The cost of the proposed levy in terms of cents per $1000 of assessed value is spelled out in the ballot measure summary. The allocation of funds is also spelled out in the ballot measure language.
@BikeHelmetMk2
@BikeHelmetMk2 2 жыл бұрын
Locally our politicians implemented a pro-development policy - anything over $5m has no property taxes for a decade. We're very pro-big-developer anti local-homeowner here. Tax increases, water bill increases, extra license fees, etc.; paid for by the smaller property owners. (99%)
@ojsimpson1234
@ojsimpson1234 2 жыл бұрын
is a land tax not a separate tax type? property tax skewed to land is just a land tax i think and property tax in general incentivizes the wrong things
@nate4fish
@nate4fish 2 жыл бұрын
Land tax by sf of lot including on street parking. No discounts, if the city earns enough revenue it can lower the taxes.
@nathancurnow6425
@nathancurnow6425 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, Royal Park in Melbourne also contains Melbourne Zoo and a large amount of public open space that is well-used and suitable for its location. But the amount of golf courses throughout the city is gross, especially in the southeastern suburbs
@gregorylu
@gregorylu Жыл бұрын
As a golfer, if you do want to make proper golf courses that does respect the space, mixed parkland space is the best. Houston (for as bad as the city is) actually does a decent job of it. The two major golf courses within the loop are Memorial Park and Hermann Park. Memorial Park Golf Course is part of a much wider space that is a massive park with baseball, playgrounds, and tennis courts. Hermann Park is another larger park and also connected to the Houston Zoo complex, and there are some walking trails that also cut through the golf course and utilize the heavy wooded areas for good shade.
@ZeBoy85
@ZeBoy85 Жыл бұрын
And the hospital which is accessible via the tram stop.
@Robin_Goodfellow
@Robin_Goodfellow 2 жыл бұрын
The best use of golf courses that I've seen is here in Alaska. In the winter, when all of that space is also unusable for golfers, many courses groom out some cross country ski trails on the greens and let anyone come and ski there. It basically turns the whole space into a public trail system.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Oooh I didn't know that. Very cool!
@SaxPanther
@SaxPanther 2 жыл бұрын
They do the same thing at a number of golf courses in New England that I've seen. Golf for the wealthy in the summer, nordic skiing in the winter for the poors. Better than nothing.
@pex3
@pex3 2 жыл бұрын
same on at least some of the public courses in Toronto
@Robin_Goodfellow
@Robin_Goodfellow 2 жыл бұрын
I should add the caveat that skiers tend to be from a wealthier crowd as well, but this may be offset somewhat by the abundance of used gear in my area
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 2 жыл бұрын
@@Robin_Goodfellow I would think cross country skiers can be of a more wider range than the downtown skiing group
@gordon1545
@gordon1545 2 жыл бұрын
Wee observation from Scotland - while golf courses obviously take up a lot of space, in this country it's not an elitist or exclusive sport at all. The course closest to the centre of Edinburgh is Prestonfield, in a very wealthy area of a wealthy city. A group of four non-members can play a round there, teeing off after 3pm on a Saturday, for the equivalent of $24 each. I grew up on the lowest of incomes in Glasgow, a very poor city, and lots of my friends played golf. They would take their clubs on the bus to one of the many courses owned by the council, and play for the price of a cinema ticket or swimming pool entry. Of course there are snooty, exclusive clubs but it's a sport enjoyed by men and women of every class. One of the starkest examples of Scotland's approach to golf is this; the Old Course at St Andrew's is the most famous course in the world. Next week it's hosting the 150th anniversary of the The Open. But the following Sunday the course has no play on it and becomes a public park, same as every Sunday when it's not hosting a major tournament. You can walk anywhere apart from the tees and greens, though if you do there's nobody to stop you. And on top of that, Scotland's access laws mean that you can walk across *every* golf course at any time, provided you don't walk on the tees and greens and you don't interrupt play.
@mattd6085
@mattd6085 2 жыл бұрын
I did wonder what he was talking about at the start of video when called golf a sport for people with disposable time and money. I work full time hours and earn a very standard wage but I still play golf with a bunch of absolute reprobates because we enjoy the sport. Maybe in the US it's an elitist sport for rich white men to do a business deal in but here in the UK it's literally just another easily accessible sport for anyone to partake in
@kenbrown2808
@kenbrown2808 2 жыл бұрын
I was amazed, as a yank visiting scotland, at how affordable a round of golf at one of the less prestigious courses at saint andrews was.
@mattd6085
@mattd6085 2 жыл бұрын
@@kenbrown2808 golf isn't a status symbol here, it's just a game, one that anyone is welcome to play
@kenbrown2808
@kenbrown2808 2 жыл бұрын
@@mattd6085 here, most golfers welcome everybody to play, too. but the green fees can be expensive at some courses. and of course, most are private businesses rather than public land, so they wouldn't have it be a park on sunday.
@ShubhamMishrabro
@ShubhamMishrabro 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe he is from us that's why he is not informed well.
@skypesos
@skypesos 2 жыл бұрын
The 2 metro lines under the long golf course for Shenzhen is 4 now (Lines 1, 2, 9, 11) Google Maps no longer update its transit layer for Chinese metros). Line 11 is an express line. The good note is that partly due to the wide station spacing of Chinese metros, the stations of those metro lines don't directly serve the golf course, but the high-density development surrounding them.
@Justin-fi9kj
@Justin-fi9kj 2 жыл бұрын
I got very bored and decided to figure out how many people you could fit in LA area golf courses. Using the same density as the Tempe Culdesac Car free development project you could fit a good 90,000+ people. Just food for thought
@grahamturner2640
@grahamturner2640 2 жыл бұрын
The Phoenix valley also has a ridiculous amount of golf courses, though at least they're in the suburbs, which also have a ton of retirees.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
There are some very interesting things going on in Phoenix.
@wernerrietveld
@wernerrietveld 2 жыл бұрын
@@grahamturner2640 In Phoenix the amount of water those courses need is alarming.
@PalmelaHanderson
@PalmelaHanderson 2 жыл бұрын
Hell yeah! I love it when an urbanist video drops that isn't just dunking on North American suburban hellscapes. To be fair, they suck, but it's nice to know that certain parts of other places suck, too.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Your regularly scheduled dunking will resume next Wednesday. We apologize for the delay in service
@BillLaBrie
@BillLaBrie 2 жыл бұрын
God, yes. When I first started traveling it was with romantic notions that the rest of the world did things so much better. After being through a good part of Europe and South America, I realized the examples of neat, human-centric walkable development in foreign countries is just the highlight reel.
@mr51406
@mr51406 2 жыл бұрын
Always love your irrepressible, relentless irony!🌟 I’m totally for converting golf courses to parks and housing. The problem is that so many pesticides and herbicides have been used for years to get those lawns a supernatural green that they can be considered brownfield lands. See the debate in Rosemère, north of Montreal. Golf used to be accessible to the lower middle class… in the days when a lower middle class was upwardly mobile.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Good points!
@chongjunxiang3002
@chongjunxiang3002 2 жыл бұрын
By showing KL as number one, I already realized all the cities in the list has a common symptom: segregated wealth class by land. RSGC, which is right next to CDB such as TRX, which is clearly meant the club are for billionaire and high executives. Glenmarie and its multiple golf courses is a far flung wealthy suburb, with including a golf course as amenities in the masterplan (same phenomenon as Shenzhen now) was a trend of their time (that also fulfill the green space requirement quota), their mansion they try to sell are for those with serious money (most medium class don't even set foot to those place before, only those who drive BMW do) Skypark line is an airport transit that comes very recently. (So the reason it got into the list might be invalid with no understood the local context.) The current property trend is mixed development with transit adapted projects (no major scale TOD is started yet), which is a positive trend, but still way priced out beyond most people.
@PerryKleinhenz
@PerryKleinhenz 2 жыл бұрын
Depending on how you count it Lansing/East Lansing has more bridges over the Red Cedar and Grand Rivers. A big part of this is the fact that the Red Cedar splits the campus of Michigan State in half, so there are 3 ped only bridges to connect the sides. The remaining ped only bridges are all part of river trail linear parks and most of them are pretty short.
@sparklesparklesparkle6318
@sparklesparklesparkle6318 2 жыл бұрын
Lansing is awesome 3 of my friends got shot there one of them is still alive!
@SydneySlowRider
@SydneySlowRider 2 жыл бұрын
Oh man, Sydney is so so so incredibly infested with golf courses. They interrupt so many foreshore walks and disconnect parks and suburbs from each other. Thank you for nailing cities for this.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I definitely looked at Sydney (and Perth) but they weren't QUITE offensive enough to make this list!
@SydneySlowRider
@SydneySlowRider 2 жыл бұрын
​@@CityNerd until recently I lived in one sortof-inner Sydney suburb of 15000 people - just 8km from Central - that had FOUR golf courses. FOUR! Three of them occupy the waterfront and are owned by local council, i.e. public land owned by taxpayers but for exclusive use by holders of golf club memberships. (Any revenue raised is only to cover maintenance of the courses). Blood-boiling stuff... Granted, that suburb didn't have a train station.
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un 2 жыл бұрын
Golf courses are one of the reasons why the Colorado River is drying up. I mean have you seen how many Vegas and Utah have built?! Wow, who knew building a golf course in the middle of the desert would be such a bad idea... Dishonorable mention: Metro Manila, Philippines. That place has too many for its own good. But not surprising they have them too. I mean they were colonized by the US after all, and that American influence is still there. So they see whatever the US does, they must do too
@natesirovatka2256
@natesirovatka2256 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for insights, Dear Leader.
@DiogenesOfCa
@DiogenesOfCa 2 жыл бұрын
Most golf courses in So Cal use reclaimed water.
@jaumesol3480
@jaumesol3480 2 жыл бұрын
Damn I hadn't seen you in a while, and certainly wasn't expecting it in such a small channel.
@garybrewer1810
@garybrewer1810 2 жыл бұрын
Actually, much of the Colorado River water is used for irrigation of California agriculture lands.
@garyholt8315
@garyholt8315 2 жыл бұрын
and palm springs too
@caleb1016
@caleb1016 2 жыл бұрын
the example in melbourne services the zoo and royal park. they’re often really busy and accessible to the public, so I’d say it’s not bad.
@jayayerson8819
@jayayerson8819 2 жыл бұрын
You got Melbourne's Royal Park completely wrong due to a lack of local knowledge. The parkland, sports fields, and golf course separate the conservation-oriented zoo from traffic and heavy construction noise, which would otherwise make it uninhabitable for some species. This area has also been protected from development by multiple community and industrial union pickets, so that historically poor inner city areas can continue to have access to public space. The tram services a range of community and sporting facilities within this site, and the train is the primary access to the zoo, massively reducing both traffic and parking. The golf course is a pretty big conceit, but it's within walking distance of a hospital and a university, so it's in constant use anyway (something like an average of 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, and yes they play under lights for just an ordinary game, and no I don't like golfers either). Although it's nicely manicured, a lot of central Melbourne is basically built on a swamp, and the park is right on a terrain boundary where a nasty volcanic intrusion meets silt and gravel over sedimentary bedrock. Developing the site would actually reduce the value of the land both financially and practically. Our housing market has a large absent investor problem so anything cost-effective to build (at least by existing private developers) will be basically unfit for family use, and there's not much point for most other uses. Also, and again I say this with literally zero sympathy for golfers, but literally all of these look like drainage/absorption basins.
@erlkinglook4824
@erlkinglook4824 6 ай бұрын
He's not really targeting the rest of the park. From what I can see on Maps, Melbourne has a lot of golf courses scattered around the inner city - Royal Park, Albert Park, Yarra Bend etc. Leaving the question of transit, you have tens of golf courses all along the Yarra River - wouldn't all this be better off turned into public green space? Sydney suffers a similar problem - in the inner south, what little green space and waterways there are in the suburbs are devoted to golf courses, and there are few large parks that aren't just used as sporting ovals.
@finalstarmandx6644
@finalstarmandx6644 2 жыл бұрын
I just thought you might find it amusing I have four golf courses in my city, one is identically sized to city park and across the street from it, which itself features a zoo, carousel, pool, dog park, and disc golf course. There is a pedestrian only traffic signal that doesn't connect the city park to the surrounding neighborhoods, but instead allows people from the golf course to stumble across to the park with no sidewalks along the street [there is only a strip big enough for the traffic signal on either side]. My 'city' has a population near 150,000. It's honestly kind of insane how much prime real estate here is used for golf, when it could be used to expand the 1930s Public Works Admin Zoo for example.
@t.a.k.palfrey3882
@t.a.k.palfrey3882 2 жыл бұрын
For once, I am going to differ with your analysis to a significant degree. Some of the golf courses you mention predate the transit system and are in outer suburbs which were not built up when constructed. Is it your premise that all non-free-access green spaces found on transit routes be used for housing or high-density commercial use? There are many private inner city large gardens in cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, and Brussel. Should they be compulsorally purchased and built upon if a transit line is constructed nearby?
@pushslice
@pushslice 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting this. I found it bewildering that the host was building up a strawman that when looked at from more than just his one angle, seemed quite contrived & unfair. As someone who has participated in and assisted in First Tee programs in the US , most of those kids would never have gotten far into this wonderful program if courses weren’t accessible/nearby to their home areas.
@Jack-fw4mw
@Jack-fw4mw 2 жыл бұрын
@@pushslice Are you disagreeing with his point that Golf courses are a very low utilization of a very large space? That they require middle class+ disposable income (or a scholarship) and time to use? The point is that golf courses are, for the average city occupant, a huge waste of space (given a massive tax break due to US tax structure optimizing to not develop land). Yeah, some kids can win the lottery and use them on lower income; that doesn't mean there are many other much more efficient uses of that space (such as dog parks, baseball fields, soccer fields, playgrounds, housing, etc). When the world needs more housing stock (and in the cities, so that they have lower GHG emissions), we shouldn't squander the land we have already connected to our infrastructure.
@Jack-fw4mw
@Jack-fw4mw 2 жыл бұрын
@T.A.K. The first part was addressed at 5:30, second (partially) at 6:30.
@pushslice
@pushslice 2 жыл бұрын
@@Jack-fw4mw I was neither flatly agreeing or disagreeing with that, at least directly basis the offered presumptions. Please read again. His basis appears sloppy and irresponsible to begin with for even jumping onto such a debate. Have you spent much time with housing developers? I have. they make private country club members look like “Doctors without Borders”. they are out for money , and will pull every heartstring to campaign for bulldozing anything that isn’t housing… to make some housing that benefits them first & foremost. It’s not a simple equation. Btw , First Tee participation isn’t based on any ‘lottery’. It’s for anyone; no one is turned away. ( but If you’re interested in contributing /helping , please feel free to send me a note)
@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226
@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226 2 жыл бұрын
The deadpan comedy and sarcasm is off the charts in this one and I LOVE it. I despise golf courses in general, so this was an awesome video.
@garyholt8315
@garyholt8315 2 жыл бұрын
he killed me with the "loss of petroleum sponsorship"
@myquealer
@myquealer 2 жыл бұрын
Speaking of Eugene, as you mentioned there are 5 pedestrian/bike bridges, but only 4 motor vehicle bridges across the river, 3 of which are freeways and the other has a wide and protected sidewalk for bikes and pedestrians. And to tie it in to the golf course theme, Eugene is in the process of decomissioning a golf course to build a public park and housing (though it's on the edge of town).
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Ooohh I'll have to look into that! I do like Eugene.
@cmacca9109
@cmacca9109 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd Brisbane has three pedestrian and cyclist bridges, two pedestrian, Cycle and bus bridges, plus a further three pedestrian and cyclist bridges under construction currently - when completed that’s a total of 7. That’s all across the Brisbane River, which is VERY wide (min 200m)
@aabb55777
@aabb55777 2 жыл бұрын
How is the economy if Eugene?
@chrispontani6059
@chrispontani6059 2 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to know what the surrounding area looked like when the golf course was built. Was it the middle of nowhere 100 years ago and now it’s in the middle of a metropolis?
@michaelswisher8630
@michaelswisher8630 2 жыл бұрын
I agree. It would be helpful to know if the golf courses were there first and the city expanded out to them.
@b_uppy
@b_uppy 2 жыл бұрын
Somehow the subjects of how they supply flood mitigation and reduce heat island effect is always overlooked when discussing golf courses. They are used dawn til dusk and are a great form of exercise for disabled and older people. Instead it is better to advocate for more greenspace in general than targeting what some perceive as 'privileged.' Villifying the older, disabled and golf courses is pretty silly. These are private and are using private dollars to maintain them that's a bit different from 'privilege.'
@maumor2
@maumor2 2 жыл бұрын
@@b_uppy You make it sound like golf courses are public parks, most golf courses on the list dont have access for the "disabled and older" unless you are a paying member. And we love to defend them as private but they are not subject to the forces of free market otherwise they all would have been converted to more dense use. From personal experience I can tell you that Lima, Santiago, Bogota and Buenos Aires have a bunch of golf courses that by market value should have been gone by now but there is a strong lobby to keep them private
@b_uppy
@b_uppy 2 жыл бұрын
@@maumor2 Fees are how private golf courses are maintained. Public parks are maintained by taxes, and that's a type of 'fee.' Many poor live too far away to enjoy these parks so their share of the taxes has less value for them (as with many resources). That's a different argument from a golf course's intrinsic value in an urban space. Golf courses act as a form of mitigation of dense use. We're trying to mitigate urban pollution, flooding; provide biophilic spaces; etc into cities. You're complaining about golf courses charging fees is akin to complaning about water parks and Universal Studios theme park fees. Golf courses could add bioswales to their periphery to add utility. These can be added for mitigation purposes to benefit the larger area. That would be a wiser use of space. Golf courses are the lungs in a city, as are green parks. Suggest you look into the beautifying of rainwater harvesting earthworks. Urban rainwater harvesting could be a cheap way (when you incorporate healthy soil biota) to reduce air and water pollution, beautify, create biophilic opportunities, reduce flooding, reduce heat island effects, restore salmon and eel habitats, mitigate drought and heated effects, etc. These would be much better done in a decentralized way as bioswales planted with shade trees instead of the raised tree beds and ugly retention/detention ponds currently being installed in parking lots. Decentralization adds more nteractive possibilities than centralization...
@DerekHarkness
@DerekHarkness 2 жыл бұрын
I know these lists are hard to make but I have a small point to make about Wimbledon London. The parkland that the golf course is sited within predates the underground station. They didn't build a golf course on prime land. They built the golf course, cricket ground and tennis facilities on parkland outside the city. It was a former Mannor belonging to the Earls of Spencer on the outskirts of the city. Over the later 19th and early 20th centuries, the city expanded and much of the parkland was built over. The few remaining bits, such as the golf course, likely survived the urban expansion expressly because they were financially viable. I don't think you would suggest that a 124-year-old golf course (Grade II* Registered Park and Garden, Metropolitan Open Land and a Conservation Area should be removed and covered with posh housing? In fact, something of the sort is happening. The golf course has recently reduced in size from 18 holes to 9 holes because it is going to be built over. The All England Lawn Tennis Club that is next door has plans to build a new 8,000-seater stadium, 38 outdoor courts and 10 ancillary buildings on the former Wimbledon Park Golf Course. The idea that golf is an elitist sport might apply in some countries but less so in the UK. A five-day annual membership at Wimbledon Park would cost you the equivalent of under £11 per week - quite affordable. A visitor can play for £30 a day, which is still quite affordable. Indeed, the proximity of the underground station is mentioned in the promotional blurb for membership, suggesting that the people who are members actually do use the underground.
@libshastra
@libshastra 2 жыл бұрын
Delhi is an interesting case. The first two golf courses you highlighted are Colonial courses that have been maintained for Delhi's elite. The Army golf course is part of Delhi's Cantonment board which up until recently wasn't under any civilian control. Cantonment boards are another colonial oddity - it's similar to US bases. Noida (Noy-da) is a planned city and that area around Golf Course is part of a huge parcel that was sold to developers (There was corruption in the allocation). It used to be farm land about 10-15 years ago which is now surrounded by residential and commercial property. The name is appropriate though, golf courses are a rarity in India and come at a premium. The city doesn't maintain or own them (thank God), so private developers make a killing with service fees. Watch that space, that course might no longer exist in a couple of years. Fun fact: The Prime Minister's residence used to be on 7 Race Course St, Delhi.
@AverytheCubanAmerican
@AverytheCubanAmerican 2 жыл бұрын
Seeing Al Khail be mentioned is a bit of a coincidence for me, because I was playing a UAE map of GeoGuessr Explorer Mode this morning and one of the locations was inside that golf course...a Top Golf inside a golf course is Goldception. The people designing Dubai really don’t know what they want to do with their money. Dubai isn’t a living city, it’s just a place where they dump random projects to waste their money away. And realizing how they build them and the fact they try to hide it makes you sick.
@matthewgladback8905
@matthewgladback8905 2 жыл бұрын
Dubai is the antithesis of planning. It's just a bunch of random stuff plopped down wherever they could find room between the stupid megaprojects. I would say it's like a Cities: Skylines player with the infinite money hack on, but at least those players have some aesthetic sensibility which Dubai would absolutely offend.
@guppy719
@guppy719 2 жыл бұрын
??? You know top Golf is different from playing a regular round of golf right?
@mcspikesky
@mcspikesky 2 жыл бұрын
A vulgar display of power, Emirates.
@AverytheCubanAmerican
@AverytheCubanAmerican 2 жыл бұрын
@@guppy719 doesn't change anything, they're just wasting their money away with everything they do. Plus Topgolf is just a golf-style tourist trap anyway, I'd rather just go to an actual golf course to practice my golf
@JonZiegler6
@JonZiegler6 2 жыл бұрын
there is a great Adam Something vid on Dubai...It seems awful to me, like America on steriods with the added bonus of slavery!
@matejcingalek6582
@matejcingalek6582 2 жыл бұрын
In Prague, we have stadium for 250k people and its fully served by public transport. I hope you will reach that number soon!
@allene2307
@allene2307 2 жыл бұрын
Your sarcasm and dry wit are always excellent and well appreciated!!!
@theroosterblocker
@theroosterblocker 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the Eugene, Oregon shout out! Love your channel and appreciate the kind words about our little city. It's not perfect but it's always trying. I'm eager to see if anyone can come up with more Bike/Ped only bridges.
@cmw3737
@cmw3737 2 жыл бұрын
It was a nice surprise to stroll through Fairlop Waters park in East London to see a golf course that has been left to grown into a meadow again with public access. Probably just because became uneconomic but maybe they saw sense and made the space available to more normal people.
@augustvonmackensen3902
@augustvonmackensen3902 2 жыл бұрын
I know I’ve asked for it before but please do the equivalent of this video for parking. I think it will be even more eye opening.
@polo_d_g
@polo_d_g 2 жыл бұрын
Saw a golf ad while watching your video, for a second I thought the singularity had begun! Bravo!
@mushroomsteve
@mushroomsteve 2 жыл бұрын
Nice shout out to Eugene! Autzen is actually right next to Alton Baker Park, with about 15 miles of bike paths along the river. You can connect entirely by bike to both Springfield and north Eugene, as well as the Valley River Center, from Autzen. As an added bonus, we have the Cuthbert Amphitheater right in the park, where lots of great bands come to perform. Right next to the Cuthbert is the Eugene science center and planetarium, a great place to take the kids! Greetings from Eugene, Oregon -- Track Town, USA!
@granthancock1944
@granthancock1944 2 жыл бұрын
Pronunciation of Australian cities gave me some good chuckles. Great video as always, thanks!
@keeran02
@keeran02 2 жыл бұрын
yeah, just hearing him pronounce brisbane was so funny !!
@ShaggyBNE
@ShaggyBNE 2 жыл бұрын
@@keeran02 And yet he got the station names almost spot on
@yungrichnbroke5199
@yungrichnbroke5199 2 жыл бұрын
Has this been uploaded long enough for me to have watched the whole thing? No. Am I very happy to be here this early? Hell yes!
@yungrichnbroke5199
@yungrichnbroke5199 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't even read the video title
@rwrunning1813
@rwrunning1813 2 жыл бұрын
7:41 The deadpan delivery SENDS me
@brianarbenz7206
@brianarbenz7206 2 жыл бұрын
A _bright spot:_ Louisville, Ky. USA used available land (a closed landfill) in the 1990s to build a soccer complex, instead of another golf course, to which all the powers that be here fully expected the land would go. It was a long and involved struggle to make it clear to the set-in-their-ways leaders here that building a collection of soccer fields would create all sorts of new opportunities. The complex brought youth soccer tournaments into the city and greatly boosted neighborhood-based soccer clubs all over town. All this instead of another 19 little holes in the ground separated by acres of manicured grass that almost nobody would use, except those upper middle income dimpled ball whackers.
@msuspartan2016
@msuspartan2016 2 жыл бұрын
Without doing my own research, how many of these were encapsulated by urban sprawl long after they were conceived?
@Turbobuttes
@Turbobuttes 2 жыл бұрын
What's the logic here? I've been here first therefore my land use must not be questioned? Housing crisis enveloping the golf course but it gets to stay because it's old?
@msuspartan2016
@msuspartan2016 2 жыл бұрын
@@Turbobuttes to a degree, yes. It honestly depends on the significance to people. Should we bulldoze the Tower of London because Theres a housing crisis and it’s close to transit options?
@msuspartan2016
@msuspartan2016 2 жыл бұрын
And it’s not to say golf has massive popular appeal, but it doesn’t necessarily harm the populous by remaining there (like the population center expanding into an industrial zone). It’s sort of like a cemetery.
@animatedmartion
@animatedmartion 2 жыл бұрын
​@@msuspartan2016 Golf courses are incredibly inefficient uses of land within an urban area. I think it's pretty hard to argue the historical or cultural significance of a golf course no matter how old it is. If the desire is to preserve the space for greenspace, then converting it into a public park would be entirely more useful and actually benefit from nearby transit options.
@Turbobuttes
@Turbobuttes 2 жыл бұрын
@@msuspartan2016 Really bad example though. The Tower Of London has undoubted historical significance, hosts historical and educational exhibitions and takes up around 20 acres, not 400 acres.
@deriansilva368
@deriansilva368 2 жыл бұрын
Some day in the future city planners and politicians are going to be like “alright we’ve done the research let’s make sure we don’t end up on a list of city nerds”
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
This is my most fervent hope
@coastercrutchfield
@coastercrutchfield 2 жыл бұрын
I live in Cambridge, England, and I believe there is at least 15-16 ped/cycle bridges across the River Cam in the city, though a few of them are only accessible through different collages. It did make me think though how universities can greatly alter and influence how transit is planned within cities and immediate surrounding areas, and I think a topic about universities with best transit access might be a good topic :)
@scpatl4now
@scpatl4now 2 жыл бұрын
I dont know if this is within the scope of your channel, but I would like to see a video on the top 10 US cities for water conservation per capita
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Oh that's cool. Vegas #1!
@simonkoperdraat7111
@simonkoperdraat7111 2 жыл бұрын
Hi City Nerd, could you please use metric measures next to the imperial measures you use for your international audience?
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
I try to keep that in mind. If you watch, I actually converted acres to meters squared in the Dubai example -- but yeah, I'm inconsistent!
@simonkoperdraat7111
@simonkoperdraat7111 2 жыл бұрын
@@CityNerd I haven't watch the dubai video yet, but will do it asap! I'm looking forward to your next videos with meters and square meters ;)
@highnoon9333
@highnoon9333 2 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite things is that in South Florida (home of way too many rich old people with way too much money) they are decomissioning golf courses and turning them into cemeteries. It's just too on the nose.
@glenbergman9040
@glenbergman9040 2 жыл бұрын
The level of sarcasm had me laughing so many times in this video. Truly hope you do not receive threats from irate golfers
@garyholt8315
@garyholt8315 2 жыл бұрын
he was funnier than normal.
@ucantSQ
@ucantSQ 4 ай бұрын
7:26 I'm half-listening while getting ready for a trip when I hear, "...all of the grass and water features you'd expect from the Arabian Peninsula." I love this channel.
@jonathanlanglois2742
@jonathanlanglois2742 2 жыл бұрын
The thing about golf courses in the middle of cities is that there are plenty of residents who would fight to stop any development and instead argue for the creation of a green space / urban park. Montreal actually has a great exemple of this right next to the Olympic stadium. The old golf alleys can still be clearly made out. It makes for a great public space right in the middle of the city. My own city has 3 major park within walking distance of the city core and they are well loved. It definitely goes a long way toward improving the quality of life of residents.
@michaeloreilly657
@michaeloreilly657 2 жыл бұрын
Public Parks: Yes, please Private Golf Clubs: No, thanks
@daveharrison84
@daveharrison84 2 жыл бұрын
I don't mind golf courses as long as they're not in the desert. If there are high rise apartments across the street from a golf course, then maybe people chose to live in that apartment because it's close to the golf course. If they decommission a golf course, I would rather have it stay as open space, such as a forest with walking trails. If they have to develop it, a large piece of land in the middle of a city suddenly available for development is an opportunity you shouldn't waste. They should consider big contiguous things like a university instead of breaking it up into small lots.
@Nalehw
@Nalehw 2 жыл бұрын
I know you can't do international videos all the time - it's not your area of expertise, and as you said, they're hard to research - but I really like them and I hope you can continue doing them from time to time. Sometimes it feels like the internet is just for complaining about America's problems and the rest of us don't get a mention. The low-hanging fruit with a lot of these golf courses would be to just turn them into public parks. That opens them up to SO much more use and enjoyment, and takes relatively little redevelopment. Still not the ideal thing to have smack next to a transit station where housing pressure is the highest, but at least it would be a valuable thing to have in the city more generally.
@scoobideux15
@scoobideux15 2 жыл бұрын
I'm in love with the sarcasm [paraphrased] "This course has just the type of water features and grass you'd expect of the Arabian Peninsula." It's like Arizona, eh?
@pendent23
@pendent23 2 жыл бұрын
Always love to see my home, Eugene, get some appreciation. This place is surprisingly good when it comes to biking around though I sure wouldn't mind some protected bike lanes
@nkflynn882
@nkflynn882 2 жыл бұрын
Really! I pretty much plan around being able to take the bike paths or else I'm taking the bus. (But at least we apparently have north america's 10th best bus rapid transit according to another citynerd video)
@pendent23
@pendent23 2 жыл бұрын
@@nkflynn882 That's pretty depressing honestly. There's some specific corridors that seem good but by and large LTD seems pretty slow
@bob_._.
@bob_._. 2 жыл бұрын
I understand wanting protected lanes there; I used to have a friend from Oregon (emphasis on the past tense) who actually advocated running cyclists off the road.
@pendent23
@pendent23 2 жыл бұрын
@@bob_._. I am very fortunate in that most of my own commute takes place on shared ped/bike paths along the river. People get so scary when they're behind the wheel
@nkflynn882
@nkflynn882 2 жыл бұрын
​@@pendent23 Yeah if LTD ranked highly that would be super depressing. That vid was only referring to EmX, which I think is nice, but still... bigger cities should be able to do better! So yeah at any rate pretty sad.
@AverytheCubanAmerican
@AverytheCubanAmerican 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the Liberty National Golf Club in Jersey City. Seeing a golf course right next to Liberty State Park leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. While yes it’s cool to see the MetLife blimp when it hosts a tournament, it’s not worth it. Because Liberty State Park is supposed to be just that, a State Park meant to protect the NJ side of the harbor’s environment. The golf course was supposed to expand into the park’s Caven Point (an important fragile ecosystem) for more holes but thankfully, the owner pulled the plug on doing that
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I've let Liberty National off pretty easy just because the transit access is bad. But the proximity within the metro area is pretty insane
@aronenark8184
@aronenark8184 2 жыл бұрын
Edmonton might beat Eugene for pedestrian bridges: There are 6 pedestrian/bicycle bridges and 2 LRT/pedestrian/bicycle bridges for a total of 8 bridges without single occupant motor vehicles. A ninth was recently approved.
@usg1862
@usg1862 2 жыл бұрын
Dubai in the UAE has been built as both a business and tourist center, the golf clubs are part of the reason people visit there and pretty much the only green spaces in the city, literally building the economy there. The topgolf being there even makes it more economically accessible and increases the utilization of the public transportation stop you have other examples like the one in mexico city, built 120 years ago, the city grew around the place, and clientele kept it profitable. There are such things as poor places to put public transit but some of these examples just low effort levels of research on the unique factors in these locations.
@kibbee890
@kibbee890 2 жыл бұрын
ClubLink owns a golf course in the City of Ottawa, suburb of Kanata. They want to redevelop the land to use for housing but the people who own houses in the neighbourhood are fighting to keep it a golf course. Even golf course owners know its more economical to use the land for housing than a golf course.
@lowenethan8535
@lowenethan8535 Жыл бұрын
I will forever be indebted to you Gardner 😇you’ve changed my whole life I’ll continue to preach about your name for the world to hear you’ve saved me from a huge financial debt with just little investment thanks so much Mrs Rose Gardner
@penelopeelsie1771
@penelopeelsie1771 Жыл бұрын
_WOW....amazing to see someone who trades with Mrs Rose Gardner i am currently on my 7th trade with her and my portfolio has grown tremendously_
@lowenethan8535
@lowenethan8535 Жыл бұрын
@ROSEGARDNERBIS
@elwynphineas9498
@elwynphineas9498 Жыл бұрын
with the consistent weekly profits I’m getting investing with Mrs Rose Gardner there’s no doubt ...she is the most reliable in the market. such a genius
@KinglerJonTheFat
@KinglerJonTheFat 2 жыл бұрын
Melbourne actually used to have a station literally called Golf Links. It's now Willison station on the Alamein line, one of the least-used stations on the entire suburban network. It also has one of the shortest distances between stations in the city, being only about 400m from Riversdale - the story is the station was built for the convenience of influential members of the Riversdale Golf Club who didn't want to walk the extra distance, but given this happened in 1908 it's hard to verify.
@O5MO
@O5MO 2 жыл бұрын
At least golf clubs are better than giant parking lots
@kiranthawardas5127
@kiranthawardas5127 2 жыл бұрын
Could you do a video about transit projects with the brightest future (maybe by number of stations added/potential daily ridership increase) in the next 5-10 years?
@isaacho4573
@isaacho4573 2 жыл бұрын
It be interesting to see a video on the most pointless interstates that should be removed from city centers.
@DiogenesOfCa
@DiogenesOfCa 2 жыл бұрын
That would be all of them.....
@UncommonElevators
@UncommonElevators 2 жыл бұрын
When the Maryland purple line opens it will cut through the Columbia country club in chevy chase. In fact they mounted a good bit of opposition to the project despite the fact that it is a former freight railroad that predates the golf course. Nearby in Virginia the hidden creek country club and reston national golf course are less than half a mile from Wiehle metro station.
@zagraniczniak4120
@zagraniczniak4120 2 жыл бұрын
Golf lover here! I played the course your viewer slammed in Santiago, also one you show in New Delhi and in Kuala Lumpur, and other close-in courses in Cape Town, Edinburgh etc. Small world--blessed with some lovely golf courses!
@chongjunxiang3002
@chongjunxiang3002 2 жыл бұрын
Found a trust fund millionaire kid here lol
@zagraniczniak4120
@zagraniczniak4120 2 жыл бұрын
@@chongjunxiang3002 LOL I wish, just a few business trips! I love this channel but sorry our host is hostile to golf.
@daftlord28
@daftlord28 2 жыл бұрын
Loved seeing my city (Adelaide) get a shoutout on this channel. I used to catch the Grange Train through the Royal Adelaide golf course and always thought it was odd. There's 9 golf clubs in the western suburbs of Adelaide... Always thought it was a lot. A year or two ago I heard through the grapevine that one of them was not doing well financially so maybe that was the free market saying that 9 golf courses is too many?!?!?!?
@Chionomania
@Chionomania 2 жыл бұрын
For your pedestrian bridge challenge; check out Edmonton, Alberta. 8 Pedestrian/Cyclist bridges over the North Saskatchewan River, if you include transit-only bridges with walkways. A 9th pedestrian bridge is currently approved to build.
@AzrgExplorers
@AzrgExplorers 2 жыл бұрын
Same with Edmonton's frenemy to the south, Calgary: 9 ped/cycle only bridges over the Bow River, plus another three if you count the ones built through the understructure of freeway or LRT bridges.
@garyholt8315
@garyholt8315 2 жыл бұрын
good point and a new bridge will connect edmt with sher pk and ft ssk.
@rgriscom
@rgriscom 2 жыл бұрын
Another shoutout for Eugene! The 5 ped/bike bridges are also linked to a beautiful 12-mile multi-use path system along both sides of the river.
@simoneh4732
@simoneh4732 2 жыл бұрын
I split myself in half laughing as an ad for golf came up in the middle of this video. The Algorithm at its finest!
@rokksula4082
@rokksula4082 2 жыл бұрын
Victoria, BC has a couple of ped only bridges, maybe not as many as Eugine, but it makes up for it by having at least 4 centrally located urban golf courses.
@rogerwilco2
@rogerwilco2 2 жыл бұрын
I think most Dutch cities have easily more than 5 pedestrian/cycle only bridges.
@jasonreed7522
@jasonreed7522 2 жыл бұрын
I think the strangest part of urban golf courses is that one would assume they could turn a profit by simply selling the land surrounded by towers (NYC land value maxes out around 2,000/sqft), and then buying new land on the outskirts. (And maybe pay for an extension of a train line to maintain city acess). It just seems like pure economics would result in low density used like Golf perpetually migrating away from the city center. (Or upcharging patrons until only the rich pay enough to counter the property taxes they should be paying on a few hundred acres of downtown realestate, which is probably exactly who frequents Dubai's mega golf course.)
@spoonikle
@spoonikle 2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, but you assume its not done for prestige and as a middle finger to the rest of us. When you got all the money in the world, why sell prime urban real estate? Its just going to be worth more in 100 years anyway.
@jasonreed7522
@jasonreed7522 2 жыл бұрын
@@spoonikle that's kinda implied when i said the rich frequent Dubai's golf course, without digging into it i assume its owned by the crown or a very wealthy person purely as a status symbol. And all the other rich people will pay top dollar to frequent the establishment also for the prestige and status of it. Can we go back to the days when the rich built libraries and universities as their status symbols, atleast those are beneficial to the community.
@diegofernb
@diegofernb 2 жыл бұрын
It does happen. In theory, those golf courses are under constant pressure to be sold and redeveloped. But also consider how extremely risky this becomes. What if the area loses value due to the increased density? Would you redevelop a course if you knew that the course itself is the main reason why people wanted to move there and now it will result in a lower sale price? This video scantly covers the issue
@BulletRain100
@BulletRain100 2 жыл бұрын
With that logic, you might as well sell all the parks a city for development and just tell the people to go to the outskirts where they might find an actual forest. The honest truth is that a core group of people love their golf courses and are will not sacrifice them just to make more of a profit. If they're already making enough of a profit and everyone is used to the golf course being there then there isn't much of an issue.
@falchoon
@falchoon 2 жыл бұрын
That's basically how all of Melbourne's private courses came about, and why they are primarily located in the 15km to 20km ring south east of the city centre. The original courses were primarily bulldozed for urban uses in between the World Wars. Commonwealth was originally in Carnegie, Huntingdale was in Doncaster, Kingston Heath was in Elsternwick, Metro and Royal Melbourne were in Caulfield, Victoria was at Port Melbourne and Yarra Yarra was at Eaglemont.
@DanSmith-oj2vo
@DanSmith-oj2vo 2 жыл бұрын
I’m a non driver so i really appreciate your KZfaq work. Thank you.
@mathewferstl7042
@mathewferstl7042 4 ай бұрын
One thing to note at least in victoria australia (melbourne) is that public golf courses, which are at least half of them are completely open to the public, you just won't be able to play.
@grantmccoy6739
@grantmccoy6739 2 жыл бұрын
Golf courses are absolutely beautiful, and it's a shame that these places aren't just parks, or that more parks aren't beautiful just like them. I guess that raises a question, are parks a waste of urban space? The answer is no, but it's not that much different than a golf course. Just in terms of exclusivity. I don't think that having a golf course inside of a city is a great idea, but I also don't think that the cities look very appealing with even less green space. Here's another question, would the space be wasted if it was evenly distributed around the city? I really think suburbs are actually exactly what most people want, it's just that the intense infrastructure required to accommodate them is really awful. I don't think anyone loves parking lots, but would the world be less gray without them? It seems like there would still be dense buildings, except they would be built around pedestrian spaces instead of roads. I guess the whole point is to balance out the way overdeveloped car infrastructure. I just hope that I can live in a place that is more, not less, convenient.
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 2 жыл бұрын
Not everybody wants a suburb. I find suburbs pretty isolating. maybe they are good for some families that want to stay in their own bubble but actually it can be isolating for families too.
@grantmccoy6739
@grantmccoy6739 2 жыл бұрын
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 I can't imagine it's much different than urban living. Are people really more social in cities? When people are really common, it becomes harder to make meaningful relationships. It ends up just being people in your neighborhood, or with common interests or habits. Btw, I was mainly referring to the mix of infrastructure and greenery in my original post, but I completely left that out. I find urban environments to be very gray, which is definitely on topic here. Suburbs are actually quite a decent blend of urban and "rural", or at least greenery. That was my original point. I feel like we have a culture of isolation in general. And it basically has nothing to do with where you live. I think it has something to do with capitalism, but I don't feel like elaborating.
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 2 жыл бұрын
@@grantmccoy6739 I lived in suburbs when I was a child when I had no choice. Then for my job -- I lived in a very walkable and bikeable city where I noticed when I made friends that lived toward the center but happened to live in the area where I lived I would often walk or bicycle back with them or to events or festivals it was quite natural for us to walk and bicycle together with any number of friends Now I’m back in a different suburb in different city and I feel isolated again.
@FranziskaNagel445
@FranziskaNagel445 2 жыл бұрын
The exclusivity makes a huge difference. One is a gathering space for the entire community. A place to hang out or play sport and a location for events and festivals. The other is a fenced in private area acessible only to members that is only used to play one sport. Often you need invitations or sponsors to join so if you don't happen to know the right people or fit in with their clique you can't access these areas. Sport facillities inside urban areas should be either public and accesible to everyone or rented out groups and clubs for an affordable price. And yes the world would be less grey without parking lots. If we dedicate less space to them our cities can be smaller. And the area dedicated to parking can be used for agriculture or forestry or could be a nature reserve. And the difference between pedestian and car dominated spaces is huge. Pedestian spaces are like living rooms while car dominated spaces are like storage facilities, places that act as space you traverse to go to your destination.
@grantmccoy6739
@grantmccoy6739 2 жыл бұрын
@@FranziskaNagel445 I think it's actually possible to design really beautiful parking spaces. Rows of plants, like flowering shrubs, etc. breaking up the lanes for parking. Also, instead of perpendicular columns, parallel rows would break up the visual language, making them appear less massive and vacant, and obviously much less grey. The point is that it's possible to design beautiful infrastructure, no matter what is used. You could have really drab pedestrian spaces, despite no cars, etc. It's the same with trains and buses. They aren't just beautiful on their own, unless they are tastefully designed. Even completely natural places can be quite uninspiring.
@JH-pe3ro
@JH-pe3ro 2 жыл бұрын
Although I don't play golf, I'm oddly resistant to the idea of removing existing urban golf courses. It's not a multi-use destination like an urban park, but it also ranks way higher than "parking space" in my book. And there are so many ways to work on parking space reduction that the golf courses feel like a low priority, even if we're talking about a heavily developed area where there's an obvious cost to keeping that footprint. Recreation isn't just about the playing groups since it also employs a whole industry. Having a course is a way to draw in tourists, and they are likely to spend their money nearby. When looking at the class and access side of it, there's a noteworthy correlation: the older the course is, the lower the greens fees are, because they've paid down the cost of construction. So in my hometown of SF, golfing grabs a few kids from every high school class because having a lot of old courses right there in the city puts it within the budget of a school extracurricular program; with that cost covered, it's otherwise not different from funding other sports or music programs. If they had to travel outside the city it just wouldn't be a thing - the commute would stop it from happening. Like with opera houses and concert halls, there's some positive externality to having some "rich person culture spaces", if the city is set up to spread around access. Does that make it worth keeping over housing? Not an easy call; the case for every city having a metro stop into a golf course is basically one for a world where everyone's a little wealthier and has a little more spare time. I guess I'm resistant because I remain optimistic that that could be the case.
@jrm78
@jrm78 2 жыл бұрын
Dubai putting a TopGolf in the middle of a golf course seems like the set-up for an Xzibit "yo dawg" meme.
@TysonIke
@TysonIke 2 жыл бұрын
Sacramento area has 6 walk/bike bridges over the American River between the fork with the Sacramento River and the dam at lake Natoma. The river also has a gulf course along part of it.
@nkflynn882
@nkflynn882 2 жыл бұрын
Could you do a most bikeable cities video? Speaking of Eugene, the biking is pretty decent compared to a lot of cities in the US (I imagine) and it would be cool to see where it ranks.
@martinlisk9913
@martinlisk9913 2 жыл бұрын
It is, Eugene just finished hosting the Co-Motion Northwest Tandem Rally, didn't have a car for 15 years myself ... had a couple of years of 10,000 miles riding around the area
@adamlynch4122
@adamlynch4122 2 жыл бұрын
Love these videos! I work in land development and see these types of proposals and plans all day. A list idea I thought would be good is the worst examples of neighborhoods destroyed by highway construction. Downtown Durham NC, where I work, demolished the thriving black neighborhood of Hayti to build HWY 147.
@emmettpickerel5016
@emmettpickerel5016 2 жыл бұрын
Literally did a fist in the air when you got to Wimbledon. Used to work right next to it. The giant obstacle of the golf club really hit home on one day when all the tube lines kept breaking down and I ended up on a bus running down the west side (my office was right near Wimbledon Park Station). Absolutely divides and defines the neighbourhoods around it. It also takes far longer to cross the grassy wasteland (figuring out where you're allowed to walk) than you'd ever dream. Oh and here's another bit of trivia: because it's so hard to get to the park from Wimbledon Park Station, the official station for Wimbledon is actually Southfields.
@andrewgraziani4331
@andrewgraziani4331 2 жыл бұрын
Suggestion for future episode. Pedestrian infrastructure that accommodates Emergency Vehicles.
@russellvk
@russellvk 2 жыл бұрын
A suburban golf course near me has just been removed to make way to a massive storm water detention pond. It's Houston. I'll take whatever flood prevention we get at this point. Also, I smile every time a golf course is removed. Another great video, as usual!
@andreas4307
@andreas4307 2 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed the video, well done ("golf malpractice" - I'm totally going to plagiarize that). I'm a little curious about how many of these were cases where the club was originally well outside the built-up area and the city grew around them, rather than being purpose-built in developed locations. I'd imagine the Dubai clubs would fall in the latter category, but many of the others maybe not. Not that I'm supporting golf or leaving these clubs once it's clear that, like London, dense building is critical for sustainability, but I'm not certain how that can be handled, given so many are legacies of earlier times and privately owned. Brisbane Golf Club, for example, was built in 1896 and given it isn't huge even now, I'd imagine the club wasn't so enclosed by the city until maybe in the mid-20th century.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
Oh I think most of them are old, legacy locations. But I tried to address that in my discussion of Wimbledon, San Francisco and incumbency bias/inertia. It's devilishly difficult to deal with but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try!
@nacoran
@nacoran 2 жыл бұрын
They just tore down the golf course near me. I hate golf courses, but I do wish they'd done something more park like (it's going to be more senior housing in a town that already has lots of senior housing). As for not answering about the free hand of the market... don't golf courses usually pay pretty low taxes? I remember something about that in a presentation on LVT I saw once. Since the land doesn't have buildings on it and we mostly tax on buildings, they end up paying super low tax rates, in general, while taking a huge amount of water to keep green.
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957
@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 2 жыл бұрын
Yes on golf courses besides taking a huge amount of water to keep them green also take a huge amount of herbicides and pesticides.
@timothytao898
@timothytao898 2 жыл бұрын
Thinking about Seattle's redevelopment, I would love to see a video discussing TOD. Also, Ottawa has a *few* courses. Listed below: - Ottawa Hunt and Golf Club north of the airport, between post-industrial zones - Hyland Course south of the airport, in middle of nowhere -Falcon Ridge across from a casino in middle of nowhere -Pine View in the Greenbelt, in a sensitive watershed, across the road from a rail station -The Meadows east of a new suburb -Emerald Links in another new suburb (Why does a city of 1.5 million need all these courses?) -Stonebridge in another new suburb -Cedarhill in an older suburb -Amberwood in a new suburb -Richmond Centennial in an exurb -The Marshes, built by destroying its namesake -Canadian Golf and Country Club, in an exurb (seriously why are there so many?) -Ottawa Golf Club in a suburb -Loch March in a nature reserve (throws up) -White Sands, which is nowhere near a beach and in the Greenbelt -Mer Bleue in a sensitive wetland -Camelot Club in an exurb -Rivermead separating Hull and Aylmer -Cartier Golf next to Rivermead -Champlain Club next to Cartier -Royal Ottawa next to Champlain (seriously WTF?) The above four straddle a planned tram line. -Les Vieux Moulins in a suburb Other semi-rural clubs I didn't bother to list.
@robertcartwright4374
@robertcartwright4374 2 жыл бұрын
I guess we have to expect golfalisciousness like that in the capital city of the most Scottish place on earth, after London and Scotland. Thanks for the list! It's truly impressively long.
@user-lv6rn9cf8m
@user-lv6rn9cf8m 2 жыл бұрын
Also with tennis courts - you can easily fit them on top of buildings - or even inside.
@BCNeil
@BCNeil Жыл бұрын
I know golfers that only like city courses, because they cost more. You could have the exact same course an hour out of town, charge half price. They wouldn't like it. Because other people can afford to go. Part of the fun, is knowing you are playing on extremely valuable land.
@MegaKiri11
@MegaKiri11 2 жыл бұрын
Commenting before I watch: I'm sure Dublin, Ireland should be in the top 10! UPDATE after I watched: Oh no, Ireland wasn't even mentioned! Please check it out if you didn't. There is a housing crisis, prices approach New York/London territory and it has so many golf courses! And a special helicopter airline that makes regular trips only between them! I am not kidding!
@altriish6683
@altriish6683 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, the most impressive thing about this video is how many of these places outside the US have real passenger rail infrastructure. It's unreal to me as an American that you actually run passenger trains in your cities. Crazy!
@Luboman411
@Luboman411 2 жыл бұрын
I see you've never been to NYC, Chicago or Philly...
@youreafurry8818
@youreafurry8818 2 жыл бұрын
I do wonder what’s stopping developers buying up this land for development, given its prime land. Surely golf courses aren’t *that* lucrative. Seriously, the land of those golf courses in London is worth 10s of millions.
@Jack-fw4mw
@Jack-fw4mw 2 жыл бұрын
It depends on a lot of things. 1) Just because someone can buy it for more than twice the value, doesn't mean the owners have to sell. The owners might be more interested in the non financial incentive of owning the golf course than the day to day business numbers. 2) Golf Courses (along with parking lots) take huge advantage of the problem of property tax vs a flat land value tax. As golf course land is relatively unimproved, they pay very little in property tax. Even less if they get a special designation from the city for being a "park".
@tedsteiner
@tedsteiner 2 жыл бұрын
This guy's passive-aggressive snarkiness keeps me coming back to this channel lmao it's so good
@jamesphillips2285
@jamesphillips2285 2 жыл бұрын
Edmonton, AB, CA has 6 pedestrian/bike only bridges. -Strathcona Science Park -Ainsworth Dyer Memorial -Capilano foot bridge -Buena Vista/Hawrelak Park -Fort Edmonton -Terwillegar Park Edmonton has a lot of green space in the river valley. It is also a fast-moving river you don't want to swim across. A 7th one was demolished and replaced with a train bridge (and allows Bike/pedestrian access AFAIK == the train bridge west of the high level does).
@JustaGuy_Gaming
@JustaGuy_Gaming 2 жыл бұрын
I can only imagine the good public transit to Golf Courses is so their Caddies and cabana staff can get to work. I highly doubt any one who uses a golf course would ever take public transit.
@CityNerd
@CityNerd 2 жыл бұрын
That's part of the irony/awfulness
@sarthsingh3271
@sarthsingh3271 2 жыл бұрын
Willingdon golf court in Mumbai is a serious offender too. its right next to one of the city's major inter city train station and is located in the prime real estate area of the city where average house costs are between 3-4 million USD. the monstrosity doesn't end here though. the city also houses Mahalaxmi race course which is just north of the golf court mentioned above and is right in the middle of the downtown, western side of mahalaxmi station on the Mumbai Suburban railway is just the race course wall .Bad use of space in a city chronically congested
@michaeloreilly657
@michaeloreilly657 2 жыл бұрын
And Kolkata gets in on the act, with Tollygunge and Royal Calcutta (sic) Golf Clubs, with their dedicated Metro Station, and the centrally located race course at Hastings.
@adam_nathan
@adam_nathan 6 ай бұрын
It’s worth saying that the area you complained about in Brisbane is incredibly prone to flooding (it goes entirely under every time and the council has paid people to move away from there), instead of residential it should simply be made public green space.
@hurtpiggypig
@hurtpiggypig Жыл бұрын
whuah! you surprised me with the bit about Kent! This year I started working in Kent (commuting 30+ min, by car, truly miserable) and my work is right off the trail and I have biked down along that golf course several times and gotten food in that development several times. It's always exciting to see someone talk about a place that is familiar to me! And I had been curious about the development in Kent in that area, so this was awesome to see! Thank you!
@moritzm.3671
@moritzm.3671 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, what I would find very interesting is the timeline on how it was buit. Because if it is a 200 year old club, build in the middle of nowhere and years later the city grew around it I find it more tolerable then if it was built when there was allegedly city around it. I really hope no other buildings were torn down for any of these.
@aidanburns6163
@aidanburns6163 2 жыл бұрын
That's something I'd be interested to hear about, take Eastmoreland Golf Course featured at the start of the video. It was built when the neighborhoods of Eastmoreland and Westmoreland in SE Portland were really more like suburbs of town rather than being seen as inner-city like they are today.
@HweolRidda
@HweolRidda 2 жыл бұрын
I had the same thought. How many of these are "grandfathered" uses? I think some Asian cities have bulldozed slums for golf clubs but I cannot give a specific example.
@jacobt1653
@jacobt1653 2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing while watching this. Aside from Dubai and some of the Asian cities, I would think many of these courses were built long before the city or transit infrastructure grew in around it. So do we demonize golf courses for merely existing in urban areas or blame city officials for putting transit stops in bad locations? Btw I love golf and having it more accessible to people is how the game grows; however, I also recognize it’s a poor use of space in cities… and golf definitely has no business being in the desert lol.
@aidanburns6163
@aidanburns6163 2 жыл бұрын
@@jacobt1653 Yeah this is where I’m at with it, I don’t think it’s bad necessarily but desert golf shouldn’t be a thing
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