My mother taught me that if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Because of that, I was close to not leaving a comment. But, then reading through some of the viewers comments I realized that I had to mention a couple of things. For instance, the viewer who took your word regarding the complexity of the Z8 and felt that it was far more complicated than his D850.. The one previous time we interacted, I acknowledged that many people consider the Sony cameras to be user friendly (in fact some people think of them as an expensive point and shoot cameras). I accept that Nikon's require a learning curve, but as the previous owner of a D750, a D850, a Z6ii, and a Z7ii, I really don't think the Z8 is much more complicated than my D850. More sophisticated? Yes. Better burst, better autofocus, better quietness? Yes. But, I believe any D850 user who shoots in Manual Mode, Aperture Mode or Shutter Priority could quickly set up the Z8 to their liking. And, as far as the lens lineup? Yes, Sony has a bunch of them. But, in my use case of shooting dog movement, quite a bit of landscape and whatever else strikes my fancy, I'm certainly not lacking for lens selection. In fact, my old F mount lenses (mostly Sigma) worked wonderfully on my Z9 via FTZ adapter. My Zeiss Milvus f/2m ZF.2 Macro lens (manual focus only because Zeiss intended it that way) was great on both my Z7ii and Z9 and while I did tell the camera it was using a manual focus lens, it was easy to do so. So, I get that it's far less entertaining to just acknowledge that it's very usable as is, I think that most camera buffs who "speak Nikon" will find the Z8 to be a really wonderful Nikon camera. Not a Sony, but a fine Nikon.

I love these kind of reviews where someone tries a different camera brand. There were so many usability things which you highlighted compared to a typical Nikon reviwer (good and bad).

Nikon has hit it out of the park with the Z8. Kudos that you pointed out the mistakes, Wes. On the focal length for non CPU lenses, the Nikon Z9 you can now choose the exact focal length with firmware 4.0. i presume the same update will come to the Z8 as well. Hopefully the Auto Capture feature as well.

Being an owner of the A1, the Z8 sparked my interest but I think I'm good staying with Sony. Thankfully, I'm not one of the disgruntled owners since the last big firmware update was the one that pleased me with the S, M, and L compressed raw file sizes. I think the GM II zooms helped me out more than anything. The A1 AF with those lenses matches what I require.

It appears the photo flicker reduction setting = blackout issue is a bug because it was just corrected on the Z9. You should try adapting Sony lenses on the Z8 next. Also you’ve touch on some items that have never been talked about on KZfaq in your two Z8 videos. Kudos. Last thing of note…. The E mount vs F mount logic is a bit flawed because some of those lenses sharpness scores are with the 61MP sensor which inflates the number a bit for those lenses tested on that camera. You can see for example the 70-200 GM (version 1) has a 38 sharpness on 42mp sensor and 51 sharpness score on the 61mp A7R4. I can assure you that lens isn’t as sharp as the F mount 70-200E FL.

Wes, thanks very much for the updates and clarifications. Nikon is not alone in creating camera manuals that suck! They all do it, so that's why I always recommend getting a 3rd party manual for a camera. Those 3rd party manuals fill in the gaps with understandable explanations. On to your comments about the "artsy" photographers who only want to turn on the camera and go. That's fine, but the Z8/Z9 are not a good match for them. That's not a fault of the camera. Those photographers want basic controls only. Other photographers want/need more finite control. Think of it as the difference between driving a street-legal Dodge with 1,000HP on the street versus a NASCAR Dodge on the racetrack or a sailboat versus a sailboat in the America's Cup. In those latter examples, the degree of tweaking the car or boat will make the difference between losing and winning. You can't take a Leica or Hassy from the portrait studio to a pro football game and expect great results. I don't see this as a weakness, PITA yes, but not a weakness.

Hi, after weeks watching reviews and testing just came to buy z8 because of truly hybrid and all in one camera, but surprisingly I watched some complaints from professional photographers about: Not accurate AF all the time and missing lock on subject, heated card after 15 minutes videography or photography in events, not solid back dial and low quality of grip for slipping hand after long time shooting, and other issues you mentioned here. I can accept and handle everything but of course not about failure on AF tracking system and overheating cards or body! Please advise. Thank you

Photo flicker reduction is not the LED light banding protection. This is a feature when shooting under sodium vapor and mercury vapor lights. If you're not shooting under those conditions, you don't need this on. The other option High Speed Flicker reduction enables micro shutter speeds to deal with banding.

Totally agree with you on the fact that cameras and their manuals should be user friendly. Today i checked out the Z8 at a store and i couldnt find the auto shooting mode in addition to the regular A, P, M, S that exists. They said its their bit it wasnt. Closest is Progamme Auto option. Even the the technical staff at the shops missed it. Just like a car, i need to know what my camera can and cannot do. Learning shortcuts and buttons allow us to create efficiency in the system which is time saving. I guess i am one of the rare ones then who needs to know everything when using a marvel piece of art like the Z8

You are absolutely right on about menu complexity in recent cameras. I have had my A7RV for a few months now. I've come so close to just throwing the thing across the room! Just choosing file formats and the options for the card arrangement was a whole big project, and I dare not try to change it. I've resorted to just using it like a 15 yr old camera. Just the basics, thank you.

Lovely Review Wes >> RESPECT

Gr8 Video many thing to learn about, and one more thing i would like to tell about Z8, i have tested this that when we shoot @24,25,30,50,60p video and if you turned On VR Vibration Reduction inside the body then it will crop the footage, dont know how much it does but i noticed that video footage zoomed in when vibration reduction is On, but it didnt crop in 100 or 120p footage, check it out.

Good nuanced follow-up. Never noticed that flicker reduction causes blackout (I'm shooting outdoors almost exclusively, Z9, same thing in that regard, just verified it). However, I don't agree that a camera like this should be simple and please photographers that wouldn't even use a menu button. Z8 and Z9 are about customizability, and that is an important capability. You need to have cameras like that at the top of the lineup. If you want a simple camera, don't buy one with a gazillion buttons and then refuse to use them. Buy a simpler (cheaper) camera.

2:00 That's a good point about the cable length. This would never affect me since I don't need to do that, but obviously quite a few pros may be shooting that way...so yes, two cables needed and if you use a really long cable for the USB data cable, maybe you'll need an inline power injector for that one.

Thank you very much for this material. Interesting observations. I am a teacher. All in all, I should encourage you to read and study manuals and manuals. But... You're absolutely right! I've been using Nikon for 20 years and haven't mastered any personalized setting banks. It frustrated me terribly. It kind of was, but not quite. Fuji popped out of the menu and then did not fire to the previous position. The new Sony menu is like a bible with footnotes, references. The Polish translation of the menu looks duplicated in several places. I use mostly English. Some time ago I picked up a Canon R5. Madness! After a quarter of an hour I was taking pictures of birds in flight. Simple menu, C1, C2, C3 after a few minutes I knew everything.

Wes you are awesome!

Do i buy the Z8 or Sony a9iii --- i was sold on the Z8 over the Z9 but now this Sony a9iii has me second guessing?

First, thanks for the video. I was initially put off by the introduction and the a red flags in it. “A lot of people count on me” You could tone that bit down a little. (What you mean is that it’s worth explaining some of your observations and taking a second look at the review based on the feedback.) I use a Z9. There is a lot I like but I also recognise that it (and I guess the Z8) has some characteristics which make things tricky for KZfaq reviewers. You have to get the video out quickly while interest is still high BUT the camera has a pretty steep learning curve and SO many options. This is especially so if the reviewer has a set of assumptions or practices which are fundamentally different. I think both the Z9 and by implication the Z8 need a lot of study and need a lot of setting up to get the camera to operate well. Lots of the issues I thought it had early on have ceased to be a problem for me. First they did several firmware upgrades. Secondly, I studied it, used it a lot and changed my approach. I had to learn to work with it and understand how it behaves. I still think the autofocus hedges its bets and throws in a couple of shots in a burst where a different focus point is used. This is only handy if you plan some focus stacking and the subject is not moving rapidly. In any burst of 20 there will be a couple of ‘insurance shots’ (I am being polite) BUT there will be plenty to choose from. I used dislike this but I have realised, that it no longer an issue I care about. It doesn’t get in the way of getting great shots and may even be part of the process for the Z9 (Z8) system. Is it a fault? Well if you want it to be - fine, but not really. Flicker ? The camera does black out with really low shutter speeds. Most people will not see blackout. It only happens if you set it up that way. There are 4 memory banks and you might like to set one up for indoor flickering LED lights. 2 USB is an odd choice. Lenses? Really? Have you used them? Lots of them are actually really good especially long primes which often work better. The Nikon Z series is growing nicely. There is a lot of choice for a new system and more on the way. Which lenses are missing? Yep there are some missing but Nikon is pumping out new lenses regularly and you know it. Manual focus is way better if you need it.

non-CPU-Lens data not precise? Nikon only offers focal lengths and max apertures of Nikon lenses they ever made. 20mm yes, 21mm no. Etc. Seems new Z 9 firmware allows you to choose your desired numbers.

Now that's value add for a KZfaqr. There's lots of info here that no one else has revealed, at least that I no of. Subs to you.

@wesperry. Sorry one more thing. Blackout has nothing to do with flicker reduction. Flicker reduction imperceptibly delays a shot being fired to time with a light source. If the light source is 60Hz, you don't notice the flicker reduction happening. How to removed blackout: On menu item D13 you have shutter type A B and C. You can choose from black out, or 4 bars on each side flash, or a box at the edge of the frame flashes. The black out is 100% fake (like the "shutter" sound) and is only there to give an optical indicator that you took a shot. Otherwise the camera can be shot completely silent and blackout free. D13.

Hey, thanks again for clarifying and updates…im THIS close moving my entire business to nikon as i LOVE their colours and Quality of their 1.8 Glass (oh the rendering on those…) and im fed up with Sonys terrible Skin rendition after 4years… Could you further test the low light af? It seems the only „hard“ potential weakness to me (your other points are valid 4 sure but rather inconvenient then actual dealbreakers to me…)

Lovely video. Good to see a different viewpoint and highlight that most photographers just use their bew camera just like their ancient old film cameras

Good comment on the manual. I looked into both the Sony manual (A7M4) and for the Z8 and was very disappointed by their quality. I remember the manual of the d300s to have been much more helpful.

Just change the battery. Canon R5 Required me to get a DATA ONLY usb cable to tether and avoid file corruption. USB charging is nice but changing that battery is no big deal.

I guess I’m one of those geeky guys, because I run through every menu option. I own and shoot with Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm and Canon and setting up all my cameras to give me a uniform operation across these brands are how I keep them simplified 🤷🏽. I can also honestly say that I have never read a manual on any of the 30+ bodies that I own 🤷🏽.

Thank you for the rant on the Manual. I’m so sick of hearing people say RTFM for something that is not user friendly. That’s why Thom Hogan has his own 1,000 page (ugh!) user guide.

As far as I'm concerned, the only "official" manual are the Thom Hogan guides he writes for every new body. I've bought every single one he's done for my new bodies since 2007 and they are worth their weight in gold. They are literally setup like the manufacturers manual, but give suggested settings, explain every single thing in absolute complete detail (even the science and engineering behind many of the concepts), and go as far as to say when Nikon's default is wrong and why it is wrong. As a bonus, he continuously updates them based on new information and firmware updates.

I kinda see your point, but overall I have to disagree regarding the settings and menu options. As a semi-pro wedding tog, being able to customise the buttons and have different features and options is of enormous value to my workflow. I feel that a £4k camera like the Z8 is targeting people like me who want and will invest time in understanding. Implementing and benefitting from such a rich level of features and customisation and it therefore, shouldn't strictly be seen as a negative point in all circumstances. I think if you're part of the demographic that is buying a £4k camera and don't need this level of customisation or features, that you're probably buying the wrong camera, or just have too much money that it doesn't matter. Which is fine by the way, but the intended use case of the Z8 product is likely not aimed at these people. If one has enough money for a Z8, then then can probably afford a Leica and be done with it, in terms of camera settings simplicity. I do take your point though, i see a lot of people looking at getting a Z8 on social media groups who clearly dont understand what they're buying into, and, well, that's their fault, and not necessarily down to Nikon' product designers, engineers, marketing etc. P.s. still a great video and love your channel ✌️

another informative video..... I enjoy all your videos.... BUT... I've noticed a bit of the glass is half empty in your videos.... Just saying... Keep posting we are watching.

Thanks Wes. I've been on the fence over this and the Z9, largely because my Z7, Z6ii, and Zfc have all found ways to disappoint me. I'm sitting here with a dozen exquisite Nikkor lenses, but I feel too resentful toward Nikon to take another chance on a body. (I previously had a D850, D610, and D500, and fully expected 3D tracking on all the mirrorless cameras. HUGE disappointment, and four years of my own team telling me I'm just not trying hard enough to cycle through focusing options under changing conditions). I suspect when I retire from doing headshots and events in a year or two, I'll sell it all and get a Leica Q of some sort.

Wes -- I liked your review and this video as well -- the other and most common source of blackout is very low shutter speed. I don't shoot indoors with bad lighting so no need for flickr reeduction. One USB-data and One-USB-PD - that is it. Correct. I hope this will be fixed via firmware that allows data and PD for both. No-Z8 is not the portrait camera the Z9 is. The Z9 does not have this issue. IBIS works with 3rd party lenses when you set the focal length - correct. FW update for the Z8 is expected but not confirmed by Nikon. Lens support is not a Z8 issue it is a Nikon system issue and there will be 50+ by 2024. So really your point is crappy. I have all the Z-lenses I want. Sony E-lenses is full of crappy lenses only the GM are equivalent to Z-Mount S-line lenses. Nikon's top wildlife sports lenses are far superior than anything Sony has to offer. [I await Nikon's next lens road map]. I have an issue with the card door and YES it drives me crazy. The Reference Guide is fine and YES folk should read the manual if they are coming from any camera other than the Z8 -- you are nuts if you cannot be bothered. Of course you can just use a Z8 or Z9, but you will not get the best from them -- you sound like a whiny teenager (american). I like the fact that Pro-level cameras want you to work at it to use them - whiny little BTCS should basically get back to using crayons. Crop mode Af uses no more battery than in FX mode There is a BIG issue with Adobe and Nikon tethering on M1 Macs - or just my Mac Studio Ultra.

Wes, I love your lighting reviews. It’s okay to admit that you’re not familiar with the camera system though. There’s a learning curve with every camera that is solved by actually using it a lot. You don’t need to be a technical genius to make great art or figure out how to use a camera. I swear KZfaqrs have strayed so far away the art of photography

Firmware updates just depends on which camp of owners. Fx3 owners on sony somewhat happy, not so much a7siii/A1. Same with Nikon, original z6/z7 and of course z9 owners, very happy, but those who bought z6ii/z7ii which was marketed as having double chip and power of z6/z7 and would perform better, yep no firmware there and those in that camp aint happy just like the A1 owners.

As a Nikon user, I'm convinced that there's a lot of grumpy old Nikon users out there who find any reason possible to make excuses for this company.

Sony doesn't even offer firmware updates like Nikon with tons of new features for free. Sony A1 flagship got outdated because it's not supported by firmware. A big no go for customers with that flagship price. So there is no point in arguing what is better.

We will have to wait for the Thom Hogan Z8 guide.

My Z8 ch Mike Z8 charges while tethered to my M1 ultra

I love when *youtube* photographers have to make videos to have viable income streams.

again you are getting wrong about Z8. its not completely designed for protraits photography camera rather its designed for serious Videographer and for cinematic purposes thats why they deffereciate those ports as power deliver and data.. one for data output to the external monitor and one for constant power delevery, there are many benefits of this feature as everyone knows that out computer or laptop dont provide that much amt. of power for charge out these devices, even a camera need battery need more power to charge then mobile devices, if u had a single battery or missed ur card reader then plug one port to the charger and one port to PC or MAc and review and transfer data from Camera into ur computer.

It's been voted by PetaPixel, the Northrups, and other reviewers as the best camera of 2023.

I don't see where is the problem.. Wanna use very advanced modes and very certain features? you have no choice but to go to the menu (on Nikon, Canon, Sony, Leica and Hasselblad too). Wanna just point and shoot? Choose a semi-automatic mode or even the "P" mode, which is used by MOST DOCUMENTARY PROFESSIONALS, who don't have time to mess around with manual modes In the rest of the things I quite agree, I still have to see the other video but I like your way of explaining things.

Wow! There is alot to unpack here. But what I realized the most is that the comments from your last video must have really made you mad to come back and make this. You guys please don't make him come back and make any more Nikon correction videos. Just thank him for trying and move on! Thanks for trying Wes!

11. Its is not designed primarily as a portrait camera. Thats just silly

Too much nit picking, smh... Nikon lenses are great, smh, man... thank God I can make up my own mind. :)

One point about firmware updates, seems nikon removed the ability to take photos or video when it detects specific subjects that they added to z9 and they said was coming to z8 (they edited their online video)

Just wait until cameras automatically orientate photos. Then suddenly protraits of you are turned around because it just puts hair above the eyes :-P

The more you shoot with it, the more you learn how to operate it and the more you’ll realise that the grass is not much greener in Nikon land ….. This is life 😉

You missed another important thing, the Nikon z8 and Nikon z9 are marketed as professional cameras for video as well, and for some reason none of the cameras can make backup video recordings, that is, recording on 2 cards at the same time, and this is perhaps the most serious problem that, for example, when photographing events or anything that cannot be restored It's a problem to take these cameras, and the funniest thing is that all the other companies, including all of them, have been doing it for years, including: Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Olympus (om system) and more.. Shame on Nikon that sells a camera at a higher price than all the other companies that don't Such a basic thing, and that's without talking about the recording time limit on the camera or the fact that it doesn't have a smart hot show for better quality sound recording, or the fact that the z8 doesn't have 2 compatible memory cards..

Manual? 😂 Nope, no time for that lol. 📸😎

Zed Space 8 = Z 8

Why can't camera companies add a search feature in the menu's. The operating systems are ao antiquated. Android and IOS have solved this stupid issue.

Didn't think it would be recalled so soon.

This camera is not for amateurs! That why the manual is confusing for them.