@Riokaii 7 ай бұрын
The Chinese philosophical usage of 10,000 is essentially a shorthand for "infinite/infinity or eternity". Philosophical statements of "From one, two. from two, three,. and from three, the ten thousand things" Before they had a word or understanding mathematically of infinity, they used 10k as a shorthand form before the "term" infinity existed.
@GoMagic 7 ай бұрын
That's kind of what we felt but didn't know exactly. Thank you!
@slicepizzapie Жыл бұрын
That double ko threat at the end is beautiful
@Go4TheEyes Жыл бұрын
Great video. I used to also prefer Japanese rules as I mostly play online, but after a while I think I now prefer Chinese, especially as you go up through the ranks. Why? Well, Japanese rules can sometimes lead to disputes over borders that aren't resolved whereas in Chinese rules this just doesn't happen. The other benefit of Chinese counting is that since all dame have to be filled in, any weakness in shape is eventually exposed whereas sometimes in Japanese rules this doesn't become apparent to either player as they do not fill in dame. I think until you're dan, Chinese rules are also better since invasions don't really hurt you to try, neither do they hurt to kill them (late mid-game). There's just less ambiguity overall for learning the game. 99% of the time though, it usually doesn't matter until there is some weird ko or seki. Great channel by the way -Go4TheEyes (OGS)
@GoMagic Жыл бұрын
See your point there but it's exactly that ease of fixing the problems within one's territory just by adding more stones that seems a bit less elegant. Other than that Chinese rules are great.
@theeightbithero Жыл бұрын
Elegant? How do you mean? The simplicity of the Chinese rules is what makes me think it is the more elegant of the two. I’m not new to go, but I am very inexperienced. I find I have to teach go more than I can play it. I learned Chinese rules. Do you have a video on why the Chinese rules are not good enough? I’d like to understand this controversy better.
@haimzamir4361 Жыл бұрын
@@theeightbithero Two different kinds of elegance. You are seeing the elegance in how the game is described and absorbed. No disagreement. Very simple. Vadim is describing not the elegance of the rules or how easily you assimilate them. He is referring to how it affects the way you actually play. When you play Japanese rules, towards the end, they have an elegance in the actual play of the game. If the game is very close, you are forced to decide whether you should expend a point reinforcing a shape inside your territory that you are not absolutely certain of, when in Chinese rules, there are opportunities to reinforce this shape without it costing you points as long as there are an even number of dame points available to divide with your opponent. In Japanese rules, you don't play the dame, they have no value. Similarly, when you choose whether to invade, under Japanese rules you do not lose any points for failing, provided your moves inside enemy territory each coerce an inside response from your opponent. But if opponent feels still safe, he can tennuki or pass, and your failed invasion just cost a point for each unanswered stone. These types of decisions make Japanese play potentially much more nerve-wracking, and this knowing when it is and is not enough without reinforcing, either you for your shape, or your opponent in response to invasion, is where the elegance of play comes in.
@theeightbithero Жыл бұрын
@@haimzamir4361 this was a good answer. Thank you. I’d like to look into this difference more. Your description of how a Chinese game goes is quite descriptive of how my games tend to go.
@haoquanliu7887 2 жыл бұрын
Nice video!
@GoMagic 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@IanFernandes-ch7bj 11 ай бұрын
Nice hairstyle and green hoodie. Looking great. Sir can you make a video on Lee Sedol god move game 4 with Alpha Go. Please can you explain what strategy he used to win. Thankyou.
@GoMagic 11 ай бұрын
Yeah, that's one of those crucial moments in modern Go history. One day we'll make a video about it I hope. Thanks for the compliments =)
@haimzamir4361 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for bringing up the inherent elegance of Japanese play. People who harp on the inelegance of Japanese rules seem to miss the point. In area scoring rules (Chinese/AGA/etc.), filling in dame, and rewarding overly defensive play inside one's own territory (when there is an even number of dame left to fill in) is as inelegant as heck. And also, fortunately, Japanese rules do not attempt to impose any type of superko, which--unless enforced by computers--would often only detect an officially illegal move after the fact. Nevertheless, Japanese rules just aren't all that well suited to absolute beginners who are not steeped in or commited to traditional Japanese rules, and they would benefit from learning the ropes first under "prove-it" style rules, before moving on to enjoy and appreciate the Japanese system.
@GoMagic Жыл бұрын
Agree! Thanks for the comment! We recently released a new video dedicated to Chinese rules: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mdh_ZNWJs9GsZ6M.html There's a big discussion on this topic )
@kyyyni Жыл бұрын
@Go Magic 6:50 Under Chinese rules, playing inside your territory is only free after every last dame has been filled (because every dame is a point), in other words, only after nobody has anything of value to play anyway. Any weaknesses in positions would have been exploited already before dame-filling. You might have overlooked this point. Indeed, having Chinese or Japanese rules don't change the strategy or result of the game one bit, save only fighting for the right to fill the last dame in some cases (and possible 1 point difference). I am diametrically opposed to your opinion about the elegance of the rules. Also, the modern Chinese rules are more closely related to the "ancient" stone counting rules (group tax), which are, if possible, even more simple and elegant.
@GoMagic Жыл бұрын
It's also possible that we simply don't know enough to aprreciate the real beauty of a given ruleset.
@haimzamir4361 Жыл бұрын
Actually, playing inside your territory can be ABSOLUTELY free whenever the number of dame left is an EVEN number. Only if there is an odd number left to play, then you can lose out on a point.
@rexoverwatch Жыл бұрын
the object of the game of go is to get the most stones on the board............
@GoMagic Жыл бұрын
or is that a different game? =)
@rexoverwatch Жыл бұрын
@@GoMagic it's the same as chinese scoreing except it's advantageous to have less total groups at the end
@osXcanada 8 ай бұрын
It does not seem to matter …no amount of information helps my game. The bottom line is I don’t understand the game. I understand chess, I will never be a master, but at least I understand the game and can play it and have fun. With go, I know your trying to achieve territory, but if I try I don’t get any. If I don’t try I still don’t get any.. Can you point me to perhaps a couple of your videos that explain what one is trying to achieve in this game? The only thing I understand is fighting. I don’t understand influence, I don’t understand thickness. Most of my games are over after 20 moves, as I dont know what to do..
@GoMagic 8 ай бұрын
And yet you are watching a video on 10000 year ko which is super advanced... Try watching the entire series of videos with fundamentals on 13x13 and see if it makes things any easier.
Go Magic
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