14 Things the Misguided Religious Establishment Doesn't Want You to Know

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2 ай бұрын

Jim Palmer is a chaplain for the American Humanist Association and founder of The Center for Non-Religiouis Spirituality. In 2023, he posted a short article which provides plenty of food for thought. This is a video translation of his words to the screen.
Jim's original post: bit.ly/3xGBCx2

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@jimipalmer5041 2 ай бұрын

I am not now, nor have I ever been a Chaplin of anything. As a matter of fact the only Chaplin I recognize is Charlie. 🕊💖🖖

@cartoonraccoon2078 2 ай бұрын

I'm only partial to Father John Mulcahy

@rebeccazegstroo6786 2 ай бұрын

Lol

@geoffmower8729 2 ай бұрын

You should look at his great dictator speech at the end of the same titled movie. It is on KZfaq. Charlie was a silent movie star that used his expressions and funny movements to communicate to his audience. But when he made his first talky movie what he said was timeless and phenomenal!

@ThomasNoonan-qc8vp 2 ай бұрын

Jimipalmer, his daughter Geraldine acted in a few good movies in the 60s and 70s.😊

@peterlennox4828 Ай бұрын

The word Seth used was 'chaplain'.

@alschneider5420 2 ай бұрын

I have had theists confront me at: subway, grocery store, mall, walking down the street, sitting at home, sitting on a mountain top in Colorado, in a computer store, In a dry cleaner store, Target, Walmart, at work, at work, at work, ETC. And more than once at each of these. I am thinking of making a little pamphlet of this to give those people when they hit on me. This is really excellent.

@jiminness6799 2 ай бұрын

I'm working on a pamphlet taking the reader from the tooth fairy and Leprechauns through Thor and Zeus and more all the way to Yahweh so I can hand it out to some religious person that knocks on my door or confronts me on the street. So go for it I'm with you.

@joejoe-lb6bw 2 ай бұрын

So many confrontations by theists? Maybe the Universe is trying to tell you something.🙂

@mr.pavone9719 2 ай бұрын

@@joejoe-lb6bwthat theists are annoying busybodies?

@Navybyrde 2 ай бұрын

@@joejoe-lb6bwthe universe is telling us that theists are pushy people, with no respect for others.

@gamd666 2 ай бұрын

Case and point of this video... youre confirming your bias by limiting yourself to thinking its a sign from your psyche(yhwh) 👀 have you considered yourself delulu? @joejoe-lb6bw

@terencebooth8271 2 ай бұрын

As someone who was raised as a mainstream Christian, but never could fully accept/believe the creeds, doctrines, and dogmas, I appreciate Mr. Palmer’s 14 theses. They pretty closely align with my own understanding based on years of study and reflection, but stated much more cogently. I appreciate him and you for making it available.

@dianahill5116 2 ай бұрын

Everyone is born atheist. Religion has to be taught. Atheism doesn't have to be taught.

@tomthx5804 2 ай бұрын

It's amazing how atheists come up with this sort of nonsense.

@glenliesegang233 2 ай бұрын

Every child knows the natural world is miraculous until they are told nothing is miraculous, it is only blind chemistry

@JGLy22086 2 ай бұрын

Just as the song says, “You have to be taught from year to year … it has to be drummed in your dear little ear. to hate all the people your relatives hate. You have to be carefully taught.”

@tom-kz9pb 2 ай бұрын

More "indoctrinated", "brainwashed", "drummed into" than "taught".

@bellmishpokhe 2 ай бұрын

In a funny way, as a believer in Jesus, I agree with you (although probably not for the same reasons). Since I understand atheism to be at its core a rebellious denial of God's existence, I don't believe its a position solely based on objective inquiry, but rather one that is rooted in man's fundamental rebellious condition from birth, outlined by Paul when he states, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men (my note: speaking of mankind generally, touching on our nature more fundamentally), who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God (my note: knowing in the way a religion teaches God, but knowing in the core of one's being, even if one professes to be atheistic and denies certain [or all] religious concepts of God), they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rm. 1:18-21). I know you might say that this is just the Bible (which will then lead to arguments regarding the reliability of the Bible, if there is any at all), but I just wanted to state how I agree with you, that man (if one allows for atheism to be the line of thinking that rebels against the natural bent of humanity to believe in some sort of deity) is born into a state of atheistic rebellion of the God who made them.

@SteveJones379 2 ай бұрын

"You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!" - Jim Morrison (The Doors, The Soft Parade)

@peterbathum2775 2 ай бұрын

I just need a place for me to hide…

@tomthx5804 2 ай бұрын

You mean the guy who died of a drug overdose in a sleazy french hotel? Not exactly the kind of guy you would want to listen to.

@izmark671 2 ай бұрын

@@tomthx5804 Too bad we can't point fingers at the authors of 'accepted' scripts like the bible, all unknown. No drugs or sleaze back then?

@stevenstewart3414 2 ай бұрын

@@tomthx5804 Oh puleeze! It's the lyrics to a song. If I need someone to tell me who I should listen to, I may as well join a church.

@toddduchesne1749 2 ай бұрын

@tomthx5804 You are telling people the truth, and we know people don't want to hear the truth.

@cartoonraccoon2078 2 ай бұрын

Exactly! The training children recieve while working on their magic boat coloring books sets them up to be adults who put people in out-groups.

@deankittelson2798 2 ай бұрын

Dude... Nicely put.

@lightatthecape2009 Ай бұрын

Really and just how this coloring the basis for outgroup bias? Let's look at some findings of how atheists and theists differ.. The religious experience less anxiety or depression Believers have significantly less incidents of suicide. Atheists are more likely to have substance abuse problems than believers. The religious are far more likely than atheists to have completed a first degree. Atheists as a group have a higher percentage of autistic spectrum disorders. Atheists tend to score lower on empathy than the religious. Given empathy has been stressed as a necessary foundation for moral behaviour the lower scores of atheists might mean more difficulty in forming moral behaviours. Believers donate significantly more to both church and secular charities. The religious live an average of 4 years longer than atheists Anglicans, Episcopalians and Jews score higher than atheists on standardized IQ tests. There is no evidence that the religious are less able to think analytically or critically than atheists. Over 90 percent of believers are neither biblical literalists nor believe the bible is inerrant. Maybe its time to drop the claims the religious are suffering from delusions or are mentally ill.--- they are not

@deankittelson2798 Ай бұрын

@@lightatthecape2009 It's so funny. OP said that theists (Which I am one. I am an Omnist) are taught to "other" people, and you wrote this long ass response othering people. Classic.

@lightatthecape2009 Ай бұрын

Sorry you can't read.

@SPL0869 Ай бұрын

@@lightatthecape2009none of what you wrote(if true) means that what believers are placing their trust in is true; some might find it useful but there’s still no demonstration that it’s true. “90% don’t take the Bible literally?” Can you give a source for that? Not saying you’re wrong but I’d love to dive into that one more.

@rogernull6151 2 ай бұрын

The point about god being a projection of our own minds is crucial. I went from Christian to non-Christian theist. When I considered the disparity of conflicting beliefs about the nature of God-- and how my own version of god was so different from the norm-- it suddenly dawned on me: I had created god as I wanted him to be. And everyone else has done the same. That's when I became an atheist.

@OceanusHelios 2 ай бұрын

A non-Christian theist is called a Diest.

@GenerationX1984 2 ай бұрын

Makes me wonder how psychopaths view God. Their version of God probably looks more like a normal religious person's view of the devil.

@bobs182 Ай бұрын

We have a strong capacity and propensity to envision a mind in people in which we interact then project that envisioned mind back onto the person. This capacity is diminished in people on the autism scale making it difficult for them to understand other people's intentions and motives. This capacity gets overused when we project minds onto objects without brains which we call spirits/gods. Our minds are good at projecting as the image of our computer screen which is formed inside our brain/mind is projected back to the source making it seem the image in our head is in front of us.

@lightatthecape2009 Ай бұрын

I won't point out why your reasons for the adoption of atheism are not relevant or have the evidentiary weight to justify your conclusion.

@hemiolaguy Ай бұрын

@@OceanusHelios It's spelled "Deist."

@ToshiCat2009 2 ай бұрын

Would be awesome if Seth could interview Jim Palmer for either a podcast or KZfaq video!

@CoraFrances 2 ай бұрын

This had me in tears ( in a very good way). I would love to be able to send this to my evangelical mother. Her beliefs have harmed our relationship in many ways. However, I will be sharing this with my nephew who is studying to be a professor of philosophy and religion. Thank you Seth for sharing this. 😊

@curtishegner9245 2 ай бұрын

I feel for you as my family is gone . I get bombarded by religious people. I got use too that. But when family or spouse do this. I try to tolerant but it doesn't work.

@curtishegner9245 2 ай бұрын

The more I read the Bible the more confused I became. I'm agnostic. It's not right to tell people that if your not saved. Then all this bad stuff happens to you.

@war6nheaven 2 ай бұрын

@@curtishegner9245it's immoral and manipulative for people to say those kinds of things. they think they're doing the best for you, but won't bother to place themselves in your shoes. i know how it feels.

@gregbuster4187 2 ай бұрын

As I watched this I thought about how much I would enjoy sending this to my evangelical homophobic parents and siblings but they severed contact with me when I married my husband.

@bobbyb1607 2 ай бұрын

I'm in the same boat. Religion is devisive

@jaredb6934 2 ай бұрын

This is absolutely beautiful. Thank you.

@chill4625 2 ай бұрын

This should be taught to all high schoolers.

@Deutsch-um6rt 2 ай бұрын

Amen brada

@markomib 2 ай бұрын

While there were of course things I didn't love about my kids school, one of the most impressive things was seeing courses focused on critical thinking, identifying facts through evidence - and changing your mind when better evidence shows you were wrong, taking into account bias. That alone, was an important step to defusing a lot of thought bombs that face humanity.

@toni4729 2 ай бұрын

By high school it's usually too late.

@BlacksmithTWD 2 ай бұрын

@@markomib Indeed, proper schools teach one how to think, not what to think. Dispite all their effords, still few people are capable of presenting their argument in the classical formal manner separating premises and conclusions, as in the wel known classical example: premise 1 : all men are mortal premise 2 : Socrates is a man conclusion : Socrates is mortal Also few people learned the difference between a valid argument and a sound argument. Example of a valid but not sound argument: premise 1 : everything that is blue is a cat premise 2 : my car is blue conclusion : my car is a cat It's valid because the conclusion necessarily follows from the premises however it's not sound because at least one of the premises is incorrect if one is able to think of something that is blue but that is not a cat.

@dwolfcoach 2 ай бұрын

I did this under the guise of scientific methodology. The politics of it are stultifying. My colleagues won't touch it w a 10 foot stick.

@findiwindles 2 ай бұрын

7. People are born human, and are slowly conditioned by narratives of race, religion, gender and nationality to be less than human. So true. I just hadn't realized the recent rise of identity politics was just a more weaponized and strident version of an existing phenomenon.

@bobs182 Ай бұрын

Racism, churches, street gangs, sports team support, and nationalism are all manifestations of our tribal nature.

@darlalathan6143 Ай бұрын

Identity politics dates from the Renaissance, with nationalism and Protestant denominations. The leftist versions date from the Age of Enlightenment, with revolutions.

@spankflaps1365 2 ай бұрын

Look for BBC’s two part documentary “Who was Jesus” (1977). Some say it was ahead of its time, but really it was 1500 years too late.

@istvansipos9940 2 ай бұрын

at least 1977 - 33 = 1944 years too late.

@cecilr7986 2 ай бұрын

Thank you. Will look for it.

@wiilover07 2 ай бұрын

"Being less religious won't save us" I disagree.

@5353Jumper 2 ай бұрын

Religion, as in the following of one particular church teachings, is either the root of bigotry or used as the justification for bigotry. Bigotry is the entire reason humanity is not living in a prosperous utopia in harmony with nature. Organized religion's role in that makes it one of the core evils of our society.

@bobs182 2 ай бұрын

Less religious extremism would be helpful.

@jacksimpson-rogers1069 2 ай бұрын

It actually seems to me, reading some of the news, that Ireland is getting better by "being less religious". The standard reason for The Border was that "Home Rule is Rome Rule", and when Garret Fitzgerald as Taoiseach attempted to reduce the extent to which Irish rule was Vatican rule, the Pope came to persuade him otherwise.

@davidcattin7006 2 ай бұрын

Keeping it out of politics and women's' bodies would help.

@chriswilliams1096 Ай бұрын

Being less religious won't save us - but it reduces the damage caused to us by religion. Being free of religion is only a starting point. We still have all the work of healing ahead of us.

@RickScheibner 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for this, especially your last comment about secular society suppressing religion. I didn't want to discourage thought, I want to encourage it so others can come to conclusions on their own. Thanks for all you do.

@dagg310 2 ай бұрын

i was always confused when i see people praying to god to heal them. if u believe in god, why would u want to be healed? wouldn't u rather to be in heaven instead and end all ur suffering? this just proves what they truly believe deep down.

@joejoe-lb6bw 2 ай бұрын

Agreed. I told my wife if a doctor says "it's incurable", don't wait to he finishes the sentence, just put me down.

@dagg310 2 ай бұрын

@@joejoe-lb6bw lol...exactly !

@cecilr7986 2 ай бұрын

My thoughts as well.

@hansj5846 2 ай бұрын

Exactly. I always wonder why they cry at funerals. They should celebrate that auntie Jess is playing banjo with Elvis in heaven. Very strange, unless they have a sneaky suspicion that auntie is gone forever 😢

@Paul020253 2 ай бұрын

It shows that you know very little about prayer. I probably thought that when I was about seven and beginning to7 th8ink about prayer. I am now in my seventies, I still believe in prayer and still practice it and one day I have hope that I will be in heaven. As a very wise man of my acquaintance once said: "Prayer is like talking to a friend."

@emurchu 2 ай бұрын

I also don’t entirely believe one of his claims is accurate, I believe studies have shown that less religious societies are happier and more just. Makes sense, when you have a group of grounded people relying on reality and their senses to make decisions rather than the supernatural and make believe…especially when, as religion in, it is based bigotry, elitism and generally in a lack of understanding of humanity and the world.

@TheTruthKiwi 2 ай бұрын

Yes, that one didn't sit well with me either. As others have said he may have been referencing suppressive countries like communist Russia, China and Nth Korea but when I think of free, predominantly secularist countries I think of Australia, New Zealand, Finland, The Netherlands and Sweden to name few which are demonstrably much better off

@anthonyjohn9000 2 ай бұрын

If you believe God is supernatural and can do miracles, the why it is not happening. Means believing in God is nothing but blind faith, delusion. The miracles mentioned in the Bible never happened nor the persons mentioned in it ever existed. It is the stories written by men mixing some ancient kings, nation and PHYLOSOPHY. Do your honest research and be free from the lies.

@youtubestudiosucks978 2 ай бұрын

@@TheTruthKiwi you might want to scrap rhe netherlands of the list. They are starting to make rules that allow religious people to use violence on non-believers, they even implemented a rule that makes it a crjme to burn religious text and a bunch of muslims got to kill somebody who burned a quran which they got a billion copies off. If you got a billion copies of a book then murdering somebody for burning one is just terrorism overall. Like england, the netherlands is falling too :/

@AGNOSTIC_incomprehensibleXIV 2 ай бұрын

@TheTruthKiwi It's also worth noting that at least many of the early Communist theorists were in fact Christian including the mentor of Marx and Engels. I'm pretty sure Communism is actually a byproduct of Christianity. The daily atheist has an article about it called *'The Seed of Communism was a Christian Seed'.*

@haroldwhite5761 2 ай бұрын

China suppressed Tibetan religion, how did that work out?

@adamc1966 2 ай бұрын

Yep. And he left out pope on the list of people who have no divine authority 👍

@darlalathan6143 2 ай бұрын

And ayatollahs!

@DrachenGothik666 Ай бұрын

The pope is accounted for in the term "clergy", as in order to become pope, the candidate must be in the priesthood.

@DrachenGothik666 Ай бұрын

@@darlalathan6143 Ayatollahs would fall under the prevue of "clergy", as they are a religious figure in their faith.

@johnwells2261 2 ай бұрын

'Secular society suppression of religion' ... he may be referencing things like the state policy of places like 'very communist' Russia before the dissolution into whatever it is now or North Korea as it is presently.

@badnewsBH 2 ай бұрын

That was my thought as well.

@temmaxtemma9570 2 ай бұрын

North Korea even banned wearing shorts for women. It's too western, i guess? lol

@OceanusHelios 2 ай бұрын

"I supplant your delusions and replace them with my own" kinds of Religion of the State and Cutls of Personality. And as we can all see this practice is still alive and well with the current cultists plaguing the planet and their worship of demogogues. It's funny how people who criticize the lack of relgion conveniently forger to menton that worshipping a leader is the same f'ing thing.

@brianfethers8806 2 ай бұрын

Communist Russia at its zenith, and present day North Korea both have/had ideologies equivalent to a religion. In both Russian and North Korea a cult of personality substituted for religion. We can see the same thing in today in America in the the unquestioned allegiance to a narcissistic sociopathic conman.

@AGNOSTIC_incomprehensibleXIV 2 ай бұрын

Ironically, Communism seems to have come from Christianity.

@willievanstraaten1960 2 ай бұрын

Damn, this is the best I have heard in a long time. Will save this in my library for use in debates.

@Aurealeus 2 ай бұрын

Seth, I just shared your video with Jim Palmer. He was unaware you made the video and seemed very excited about it so most likely you will probably be hearing from him. Just wanted to give you a heads-up.... Great Vid, by the way. I have no doubt Jim will be happy about it. Edit: Just came back to let you know that he has posted it on his FB page and elsewhere on his personal website and pages.

@TheThinkingAtheist 2 ай бұрын

Many thanks. I'd sent it to his DM, but he likely doesn't check it.

@Aurealeus 2 ай бұрын

@@TheThinkingAtheist My pleasure, Seth. Great job on the vid, although, all your content is great. Let's keep'em thinkin'. 😇

@Grandpa_Boxer 2 ай бұрын

Outstanding points!! Palmer represents "courage and intelligence!!!"

@elainebraindrain3174 2 ай бұрын

Agree, well spoken.

@mikedeluca3897 2 ай бұрын

I think it’s pretty simple zero evidence for God 100% evidence man creates God to me. It’s a no-brainer. I do appreciate what he said for the most part and believe that he’s right for the most part.

@cantablocal6768 2 ай бұрын

Scripture says the following about its relevance, if you are unwilling to consider its contents then it will be zero evidence for you but to those who faithfully understand it it tells us what & why major events have & will happen in this world leading to its destruction. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Amos 3:7, 2 Peter 1:19)

@steveg1961 2 ай бұрын

"Religious people should not use government to promote their religious beliefs" equals "Secular society suppression of religious belief" in the persecution complex of the fundamentalist/evangelical Christian mindset. Which is just another example of how they twist, distort, and misrepresent everything in their Christian apologetics rhetoric.

@steveswangler6373 2 ай бұрын

as someone else commented, i think he was referring to repressive governments like North Korea and the Soviet Union.

@DisappearingNightly 2 ай бұрын

@@steveswangler6373 In fairness however, though it's tempting to do so, it's also intellectually lazy to assert that secular totalitarians and theocratic totalitarians are qualitatively equal. While neither is ideal and both are ultimately hostile to the fundamental dignity, rights and freedom of people, one could rationally argue that theocracy is the much worse option in that it has a nasty tendency to usher its populace into the ignorance of the dark ages. Not exactly the conditions in which progress occurs. For all the faults and flaws of modern secular authoritarian regimes, they are at the very least, for the most part, advanced modern societies. The same cannot be said of the modern examples wherein the clergy becomes the government. So although, I do appreciate most of the points Mr. Palmer is making, I think he misses the mark badly on this particular point.

@Paul020253 2 ай бұрын

@@steveswangler6373 He is clearly aiming at an audience in The US. The Soviet Union ceased to exist over 30 years ago, which in this day and age is in reality ancient history, although most Americans still think half of Europe is still communist. Perhaps he is playing on their ignorance? Having said that North Korea and The US are very similar, almost like siblings who cannot cope without an inbred rivalry. Both are pariah states and have leaders who in any other country would have been incarcerated in a secure mental asylum

@darlalathan6143 Ай бұрын

It also shows that religion is a fear-based philosophy.

@DisappearingNightly Ай бұрын

@@darlalathan6143 I'm afraid you might be right.

@honodle7219 2 ай бұрын

Religion arises from the fact we are self aware beings. We are aware of our own mortality, and so we make up ridiculous stories of deities and afterlife.

@freetibet1000 2 ай бұрын

@honodle7219 Yes I think you’re right. And since producing a coherent and believable world view on our own is a daunting task many of us resort to any of the standard views of the world instead. Thus making us into followers of a belief system that inevitably contains stuff that we did not signed up for. Fear arise when we realize that we are not true to all the doctrinal views and practices within the faith we have chosen. Fear turns into paranoia. Paranoia turns into extremism and terrorism. All this just because we weren’t able to hold back on the temptations presented by these well-packaged world views that came our way. Being born into this world is a dangerous situation when the place is so full of charlatans taking advantage of our “lost souls” and thus put us in the type of harms way that is much worse that death itself. Also worldly and secular views hold the same potential for personal disaster as long as they are not our own well contemplated views and opinions but rather a set of values and attitudes superimposed on us through the system of education for instance. Especially within the political spectrum we often encounter followers of any of the usual doctrines on the left or on the right side of the spectrum that comes across as completely brainwashed and absolutely untrustworthy in their constant ramblings that lack any contact with the actual reality at hand. The whole idea behind the concept of ‘ideology’ is deeply problematic since its foundation is based on the belief that a set of preconceived ideas can deal with any type of situation as a type of blanket solution. An ideologically controlled person is never in real contact with reality but attempts to superimpose a template solution that lack any connection with the real situation at hand. That is in a nutshell what the political establishment is all about and the rest of the world will suffer tremendously because of it.

@keithscott1957 2 ай бұрын

Are you telling me that I have not spent my whole life guided and protected by tree-elves so that I might spend my afterlife in the Eternal Garden?

@darlalathan6143 2 ай бұрын

Especially when medical science and technology prolong and improve our lives.

@bobs182 2 ай бұрын

To be a religion it has to be part of a group/tribe identity otherwise it is just an idea.

@freetibet1000 2 ай бұрын

@@bobs182 It’s still just an idea, albeit shared by more than one person. The whole idea about dogma is to establish a set of ideas for a group to follow. But nevertheless it is just a conceptual formulation about reality that is no longer in direct correlation with reality since it has been conceptualized into a formula.

@zenncatt 2 ай бұрын

Seems like the truth has set Mr. Palmer free. Good for him.

@kevchard5214 2 ай бұрын

I wouldn't get to excited. Remember he is a preacher so he only wants money and power.

@MikeBrown-ex9nh 2 ай бұрын

I knew, in my own reasoning, these things as a teenager as I was having religion forced upon me by my church and my parents. I walked away from it over fifty years ago, and am a better person for it.

@TheTruthKiwi 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant piece as always good sir. I agree with all apart from where he thinks a lack of religiosity would harm society. I think humanity would be almost infinitely better off without superstitious thinking and delusions. If humanity was humanist and naturalist, and by that I mean if ALL of humanity was actively involved in seriously trying to ensure the wellbeing of one's self, others and the planet, then I'm pretty sure the world would be a much better place

@Rogstin 2 ай бұрын

I think his point is worded poorly and incompletely. It isn't that becoming less religious wouldn't be good, it's that being dogmatic doesn't require being religious. It is that being dogmatic is dangerous. We could forge a religion that does what you desire, with supernatural elements. It wouldn't be dangerous _as long_ as it is allowed to evolve and adapt to new information. Of course, I would prefer a non-religious worldview that simply admits when we don't know things, but the danger isn't supernatural ideas, it's the unshakable mindset.

@karngray4340 Ай бұрын

Your key word is ALL. For most people, the key word is, and always will be, ME. I will look after myself and what is mine first. After that is protected and assured then I will think of others, maybe. This is why the world has been, and always will be, a hard place in which to live. Everyone thinks of himself first. And that includes people that some think of as good. Their reason for being good are as selfish as those he do socially bad things.

@TheTruthKiwi Ай бұрын

@@Rogstin Yes, dogmatic fundamentalism is never a good thing.

@TheTruthKiwi Ай бұрын

@@karngray4340 Yup, that's true man. And the apathetic are also as bad.

@sharonrich7414 2 ай бұрын

Thank you,,something to start my day off !

@jforrester1208 2 ай бұрын

This was truly amazing! It should replace the Ten Commandments wherever they are displayed.

@voxpopuli348 12 күн бұрын

Every Louisiana classroom.

@tuttt99 2 ай бұрын

12-steppers runied the word "spiritual" for me forever.

@christopherbabick2099 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for this video and for sharing the link. Much appreciated. 👍

@iitywybmad29 2 ай бұрын

superstition - noun 1a: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b: an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition 2: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary Merriam-Webster

@OceanusHelios 2 ай бұрын

As my Sociology professor once defined it, "Superstition is somebody else's religion." I, for one, detest superstition because it clouds the minds and leads the eyes to not see what is there. It takes work to not be superstitious because our minds are built to fill in the blanks and use a mental short hand which is the basis of intelligence and imagination. However, imagination is grand if it can be remembered that it is ONLY imagination and can be helpful or a hinderance.

@karngry4286 12 күн бұрын

There is no evidence either way. Your belief or non-belief is a matter of faith, not reasoning. So I have faith in God's existence, you have faith that God doesn't exist.

@iitywybmad29 12 күн бұрын

@@karngry4286 Faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the surrender of your mind. Faith is the abandonment of logic and reason. Faith is the surrender of your free will. Faith is weakness.

@mzmscoyote 2 ай бұрын

When I think back to how my parents turned me into a believer I realize that by the time I can on line I had been sitting at table with them saying grace for 2 to 3 meals a day for several years. So, when my mom taught me a blessing and bedtime prayers, I was already indoctrinated. I was not even aware that I was learning something before the explicit lessons.

@justahungrywolf2429 2 ай бұрын

Seth, tell Jim Palmer "Thanks" for me....

@essenceoneessence 2 ай бұрын

I agree that less superstition would be better. I found it striking that he mentioned that. He may be looking at it the way religion was forced on populations with violent suppression of existing beliefs or nonbelief. Picturing violent suppression of religion? Whatever the case, we’re definitely better without it. Everything else he said resonated deeply and much of it were concepts that led me out of religion. Thanks for creating this video 😊

@haroldwhite5761 2 ай бұрын

China vs. Tibet is a good example of the violent suppression of religion. Free Tibet!

@grepora 2 ай бұрын

When Jim Palmer specified societies that suppressed religion, I think he was referring to authoritarian societies such as the People's Republic of China or the former Soviet Union.

@toni4729 2 ай бұрын

Being an atheist for my entire life, I tend to think that God is just a religious Ghost that people fear and run to when they're unhappy. I've never been in this state in my seventy-two years and don't expect to ever do this. The books were never shoved down my neck.

@joejoe-lb6bw 2 ай бұрын

Excellent list. I'm puzzled that religious people have not realized this already. Then I meet a religious person and know why. There should be more honest discussions within the theist communities about all this.

@robmagee100 2 ай бұрын

As an ex fundamentalist evangelical, I’m with you, Seth. For me, the bottom line is always Truth. The question must always be, Is it True? That is the only way to make the best choices for ourselves, as well as our society. Even the most inoffensive religious belief systems introduce unsupported claims and take us away from the path of Truth, robbing us of the ability to make the best decisions in our lives.

@dagg310 2 ай бұрын

exactly. i'm not here to reject god...i'm here to find the truth. questioning the existence of a god is not the same as rejecting him. i can't reject something i'm not even sure exists in the first place . if it's fully revealed that god does exist and i go with satan, then yes i'm now rejecting god. it's like asking someone who grew up without a father who's father left at birth and u ask them, did u reject ur father? how could they reject their father when he was never around !

@karngry4286 2 ай бұрын

Well, the claim that God doesn't exist is as unprovable as the claim that God does exist. So both beliefs are a matter of faith, not of scientific evidence. Therefore, one claim is as vaid as the other. So which you chose is a product of your physical and emotional environment and your personal mental makeup. It is a silly argument for people of one belief to denigrate a person holding the opposite belief (and I emphasize the word belief). We will find (or not find) the truth of our belief when we die. Either an after-life will be there or we won't even know that we are dead.

@robmagee100 2 ай бұрын

@@karngry4286 Incorrect. The two claims can be evaluated, tested in many, many ways, and the claim of the supernatural is never supported by actual evidence, whereas natural processes are consistent and predictable. The reason we can predict future eclipses decades away, to the minute, for example, is because of Newtonian physics, AND we can count on no God messing with time and stopping the sun like the Bible claims in Joshua 10. Opinions are rarely of equal validity, and when the outcomes of those opinions are as life-altering as that of the supernatural vs natural, it is worth testing to find out which is more likely true!

@dagg310 4 күн бұрын

@@karngry4286 yes and we shouldn't be punished for questioning the existence of something that has yet to be fully proven. u can't reject what u don't know. i'm not rejecting god, i'm questioning the possibility that a god even exists because it has yet to be proven to me. it's the same as saying i reject little martian men that live on planet zeeboo.

@ilovethe80s71 2 ай бұрын

Thank you Seth I really appreciate you presenting this material.

@truecapitalist4718 2 ай бұрын

This one's excellent, Seth.

@gerrygillis8555 Ай бұрын

This should be sent out as a comment on every religious pitch

@d.f.9064 2 ай бұрын

The history of "the bible" is interesting. After the books were gathered from history, the Catholic Church decided what was important for you to know.

@voxpopuli348 12 күн бұрын

King James retranslated it and cut out alot.

@popgoestheweasel95 2 ай бұрын

At 70 I’m glad I was never required to believe in such time wasting nonsense and did the same for our four children. I’m here only because I really enjoy listening to Seth and his stories. Life would be so much better if we were more like the Star Trek characters, don’t you think 🤔? Beam me up Scotty! JustMyThoughts 🙄🙄

@TheTruthKiwi 2 ай бұрын

I suppose you think you're Captain Kirk do you? Allright then, I'll be Spock. 🤭

@stunningkruger 2 ай бұрын

@@TheTruthKiwi Capt Kirk (Church) & the Star Ship Enterprise (capitalism) have boldly taken us to where no-one has gone before! But captain ... this is not logical! ... Logic is the beginning of wisdom… not the end! Live long and prosper.

@georgH 2 ай бұрын

At least there would be fewer justifications for war and discrimination, without religion.

@OceanusHelios 2 ай бұрын

You can notice if somebody is being genuine by their comments and the kinds of statements that people make. I repeatedly and instinctually can tell if somebody is a theist or relgious fantatic by their types of comments. And, generally I can tell somebody is Atheist because their comments seem to be heartfelt, honest, and the person is expressing their genuine appreciation for things. If it is a theist, I can expect a bit of regressive attitude, loudness, brazen coldness, and snarky commentary that is terse. Thank you for your comment. I grew up with a semi-religious mother who was stern, strict, and would lose her mind and blow her top all of the time. When I told her that I didn't believe in god, she freaked out and suddenly started to behave like I was somehow either tainted or doomed and "less than" what she was. It was dispicable how she acted and the comments that came out of her mouth towards her own son, who she already knew was compassionate and more kind to her than any other person of the family, and who had shown her more understanding. But yeah. I've never seen the benefit of religion other than people's rude way of aggrandizing themselves of things that they did not earn.

@miamichaels5999 2 ай бұрын

Having been new to coming out of the evangelical movement, I can relate to so much of this. Thank you for a beautiful presentation.

@michaelwilliams2430 2 ай бұрын

I came out of it 40 years ago. Congratulations! It's not easy as you deal with all the scars and hurt it inflicted but it is worth it.

@tracykeats7394 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant! Thanks so much for sharing ❤

@taketheatrain5393 2 ай бұрын

Great video and as always Seth, your commentary is brilliant. Thanks for posting.

@gsmarkham 2 ай бұрын

I really liked this summary.

@Je1St2 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing, Seth. This is an amazing article. It really articulates a large part of my struggles while I was in religion. I believe his point made @8:55 regarding “my authority is what they taught me in seminary…” could be modified. It seems many pastors operate more from a perspective of “my personal relationship with god is my authority,” which opens greater abuse of congregates. I’m referring to the whole “god tells me I need a private jet so give me your money to buy one.”

@radiojet1429 2 ай бұрын

I have been saying these same things for years but I couldn't have said it better myself than in this great video.

@andysims9184 2 ай бұрын

I just found Jim on Facebook and immediately subscribed to his substack. I've really enjoyed his perspective

@user-pr8gx3vb9h 2 ай бұрын

God is also a human invention.

@trollemctrollersen 2 ай бұрын

"Atheism is a disease of the soul, before it becomes an error of understanding." Plato

@user-pr8gx3vb9h 2 ай бұрын

@@trollemctrollersen not t really

@trollemctrollersen 2 ай бұрын

@@user-pr8gx3vb9h Look at you. A knee jerk reaction.

@fredlavergne7442 2 ай бұрын

You’ll know the day of your last Breath .

@trollemctrollersen 2 ай бұрын

"The man who invented God was a wise man." Plato

@jeffwatkins352 2 ай бұрын

Not only do you have the most interesting and enlightening podcasts, but you also find some of the most enlightening ideas from others, and this is a great one. Many thanks!

@Magik1369 4 күн бұрын

Non religious spirituality...I love it and so true. Truth is, every single human being is a spiritual being and has a cosmic Divine origin, regardless of religion, belief systems, orientation, identity, etc. The problem is that the Divine spark is frozen and dormant in most people. It takes a lifelong process of Self Realization or spiritual awakening to purge and clear the darkness and primal repression that prevents us from realizing our True Nature. I am not a theist. I don't identify with any belief system. Peace.

@annmariethompson4587 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Seth. This was very informative!

@adropofgoldensun27 2 ай бұрын

I don't like the use of the word "spiritual" or "spiritually" it often means "supernatural" which brings us back to imaginary unproven myths.

@OceanusHelios 2 ай бұрын

Me too. On observation it just means that he person has given themselves a break from the drudgery and mundanity of the world and stopped long enough to appreciate what was around them, and tell themselves "Gee I don't know everything" and maybe there are wonders out there, somewhere, and maybe I don't have the ability to predict everything, and can just get high on being alive. That is what it boils down to. It boils down to a person giving themselves to be appreciative and vibrant, and little else. There is no magical flu floo fluffies even if, in their experience, it kind of feels that way.

@AllThingsFilm1 2 ай бұрын

Great commentary. Thank you for the link. I am printing it out so I can reread it again and again. It was a very calming experience to hear and read Jim Palmer's commentary. Subscribed.

@hopefulskeptic42 2 ай бұрын

Doing GOOD without promise of reward OR fear of punishment, is the only 'true' worship.

@johnfkennedy1019 2 ай бұрын

Congrats you guys finally figured out what most atheist and agnostic ppl figured out themselves. Welcome to the team. Now that we got this behind us can we stop killing each other over glorified fanfic from a couple conartists 3000 years ago?

@deconry 2 ай бұрын

Right on.

@jeffrice3044 2 ай бұрын

All religon is bunk. There are some 3000 Gods, you do not believe in 2999 of them. I go one more.

@three-stripes 2 ай бұрын

Very Christopher Hitchens-ish...

@macsgrandma 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for your brilliant treatise on the reality of religious institutions. Historically religions have caused great human suffering, i.e. the Spanish Inquisition and multiple wars throughout human history. Political and religious leaders use fear to motivate humans to join their brand and increase their power.

@corujariousa 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video! A pity that what is supposed to be commonsense may come as a surprise and even be rejected by some.

@tabularasa0606 2 ай бұрын

Spiritual can also mean drunk.

@spaceman081447 2 ай бұрын

Jim Palmer's 14 points are exactly right.

@sambabisky4742 2 ай бұрын

Bravo Zulu my friend. I hope one day that all will come to understand we are on a small speck of dust hurtling through space, molecules you might say. None are special, all are special.

@nealfager8126 2 ай бұрын

I’m so glad I never became a missionary! I want to when I was a freshman in high school and was told I would need to take Latin to be able to. But I was failing it in the first couple of weeks and the teacher told me I should switch to another class while I still could before the first 2 weeks were up and that was the end of my attempt to preach Gods word as a profession and wondered why God would let me fail if that was “My Calling” or if the best thing I could do was preach his word!

@edsmith1054 2 ай бұрын

This Jim Palmer has a better fastball than the Oriole pitcher. A perfect game sir. Thank you.

@Donathon-qx8kq 2 ай бұрын

I was hoping someone would mention that 😅😅😅😅

@Night-ec7ef 2 ай бұрын

People have brought up that countries with almost no religious practitioners have lower crime and stuff. Don't know how true it is.

@irenehartlmayr8369 Ай бұрын

Its not true. Why should it be ?

@craigwright1867 2 ай бұрын

Really great video, glad you decided to share this person's thoughts with everyone. It had an immediate beneficial effect on me, as I'm pretty scathing towards religion. Going forwards I'll be a little bit less antagonistic towards people of faith. In regards to the point you raised about his comments on secular societies supressing religious beliefs, this made me raise an eyebrow too; however, after giving it some thought, I feel he's referring to some of the overtly dictatorial Communist regimes, such as those of Mao and Stalin, which chose to supress religion as they saw it as a challenge to their authority. Thanks once again.

@DM-zq8qy Ай бұрын

Worth repeating! (And sharing.) Thank you! 😀👏

@celticmarc 2 ай бұрын

Simply.......brilliant

@AJ-vm8ft Ай бұрын

I do not agree with number 10 because we are not able to conceptualize a world without religion. Without religion, the 100 years war wouldn’t have happened. Without religion the crusades wouldn’t have happened. Without religion the Sunni vs Shiite problems wouldn’t happen. To stipulate that a secular society would devolve into the same chaos today is a presupposition.

@zqxzqxzqx1 2 ай бұрын

This was really great, Seth. Thanks for sharing!

@uniseine 2 ай бұрын

To Seth, re:10, 14. Society needs to teach us how to understand and reply to superstitions and innate biases.

@hopelessnerd6677 2 ай бұрын

A most valuable video. If you want truly unconditional love, get a dog.

@haroldwhite5761 2 ай бұрын

A dog is a good one! I choose to view the sun as unconditional love; it doesn't stop to ask whether I love it back it just rises every day.

@catalinberchi4069 2 ай бұрын

@@haroldwhite5761 sun is a planet my friend.We are speaking of unconditional love from living creatures.No offence!

@haroldwhite5761 2 ай бұрын

@@catalinberchi4069 The sun is a star dude. Of course it's not a biological being that can walk around or meet your gaze with its eyes. But what do you do to stay sane and loved when you're locked away from living beings? Learn to see love in nature. Abuse victims and POWs can't always go get a dog. I adapted well- some of the others became narcissists, sadists and murderers. I kept my faith in goodness and health instead of buying into Mormon doctrine.

@deedeskin2439 2 ай бұрын

I'm fully convinced that my old nanny goat years ago loved me infinitely more than any "god" ever did. Besides, animals can't lie or make up stories or threaten us with imaginationary punishment, etc. I miss that sweet old goat, but I don't miss religion.

@catalinberchi4069 2 ай бұрын

@@haroldwhite5761 Couldn t agree with you more, you are perfectly right.I was just underlining what hopelessnerd said, yours it s a specific cause not usually life.Didn t mean to be arogant or mean.Respect and all the love.We all share the same sun.

@StopWhining491 2 ай бұрын

Whoa!

@Wishyouwerehere435 2 ай бұрын

Outstanding. Thanks for posting this.

@jcreajr 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for the conversation. It’s reasonable.

@ecstaticeclectic 2 ай бұрын

Theist can't prove God exists, Atheist can't prove It doesn't.

@stevenbyers8747 2 ай бұрын

Spirituality seems to really just boil down to an emotional response to something. It seems to me to be an entirely unnecessary word.

@boxelder9147 2 ай бұрын

IKR? A spiritual path, a spiritual journey, a spiritual this or that. Wtf does all that mean? For me it boils down to a concious form of daydreaming

@brialapoint2608 Ай бұрын

I was raised Christian and became a polythestic (without Jesus) Buddhist. My experiences are based on personal experience. It doesn't work for everyone but it works for me

@user-jd1kc9xw1x Ай бұрын

I find it disheartening that so many of us have difficulty acknowledging the presence of ego, and its reluctance to publicly announce that there are things we do not know. I like to believe that someday, we will be able to move past that…

@tomnanD3 2 ай бұрын

I don't agree with No. 10.

@RhoArtMagic 2 ай бұрын

I find it hilariously ironic that (just within Christianity), there are 40,000 ish sub sects all damming each other to hell. 🤣✌️

@Ex_christian 2 ай бұрын

Ya, which is more evidence that the Christian cult cannot agree on anything in the Bible. It’s disgusting!

@richardmigneault7460 Ай бұрын

Your videos are always engaging and even challenging. Love your work , thanks

@bobs182 Ай бұрын

Religion relies on social pressure to conform. Fear of hell goes with social fear of rejection by one's society/group.

@dietwald 2 ай бұрын

I think the original author was referring to societies like the USSR where Official Atheism was imposed. What matters is not secularism, but freedom of conscience.

@karenkalweit6018 2 ай бұрын

Repression is always gonna be a negative in society

@laurajarrell6187 2 ай бұрын

Wow, Seth! Fantastic. 👍💙💙💙🥰✌

@angelamurphy9472 2 ай бұрын

Well said, thank you!

@itsROMPERS... 2 ай бұрын

"spirituality." :::::CRINGE:::::

@ronnyandersen6733 Ай бұрын

Very well done video and post. I came out of Christian fundamentalism, but I have not discarded the Spiritual aspect of life. I simply seek to find balance between the two opposing worldviews. My position is that there are Two Universes, one of matter and one of anti matter, and the earth is the converging of these two universes. As such, we are both made of matter and anti matter. We have the aspects of anti matter, such as Thoughts, Feelings and Emotions, imagination, Philosophy and Culture etc. This is what makes our bodies tick and work, we cannot do anything outside of our Physical Framework and what we believe influences us on more than one level. This is why it is important to believe the right things, and to avoid the extreme positions that tend towards fanaticism. I'm happy that more people think like me when it comes to this. As for the suppression of religion, this is something that we should not do. About half of the earth's population are religious, they have the imagination to believe in something outside of themselves, and this is something they will always have. We cannot make them stop believing, but what we can do is offer them a new religion that includes science and a way of looking at things that are in harmony with what we have discovered, and will discover in the future. In a sense, a self correcting religion. If the Two Universe theory is correct, then we have a very diverse population, half is anti matter dominant and the other half is matter dominant. Removing either group can only be done with violence, and that will lead to war. Since matter and energy cannot be destroyed it only goes over to a new form, means that there will be a constant recycling of people, that retain the knowledge and learning and experience that they have had. I know this is borderline new age, but there is an aspect of science and of course magic (Reincarnation) attached to it. Of course finding empirical evidence for what I have written, may prove difficult, since anti matter is not matter and thus cannot be tested using our current technology. In the future we will make new discoveries and as CERN progresses, our understanding of anti matter and the realm it comes from, will be better understood. Then we have the wonders of the Multiverse that adds weight to the conversation. I know many are skeptical, but the dreamers among us can easily imagine how it would work. There is not just one multiverse, but a mirrored one to it, where time moves backwards. For ease of conversation, there are two universes, one of matter and one of antimatter. The gods are simply the inhabitants of the universe of anti matter, that started extremely advanced in technology, but since time regresses they lose tech as time moves on. The Implication of Two Timelines, that progress and regress for an eternity, means that the ability to wage war, one universe against the other, would ultimately end up in the end of the universe. So time must be finite, since we are still here. From our perspective there are no gods. From other perspective, we are the gods. Anyway, enough rant for this post. Be at peace and always explore and dream big. :)

@Gideonslc 2 ай бұрын

This was just amazing! Thank you!

@CB66941 2 ай бұрын

Hey Andrew, I hope you get Reverand Karla on your show too! She is as she describes herself a churchless reverand who espouses similar non-religious spirituality.

@SMtWalkerS 21 күн бұрын

Very thought provoking. I think less religion, an acceptance of death and non-being after death, and as you say "a greater tethering to the real world and to each other" would definitely help everyone. Not a suppression of religion, but not allowing religion to suppress others.

@garypage9515 2 ай бұрын

Listening to Pavarotti sing Ave Maria de Gounod is a spiritual experience. Watching a sunset from the beach in Naples Florida is a spiritual experience.

@judy-carolbell314 10 күн бұрын

Many things can be FELT as spiritual experiences. Thank goodness these moments happen. But we have to be open for them, or at least in a neutral position and relaxed to have them happen spontaneously. They are wonderful AND they are personal. (Not to be transformed into a dogma for others.) My idea of a good religious meeting would an opportunity of orchestrated conditions which are conducive to such experiences. It should not be about teaching some doctrine. I would say that the doctrines are the reason why some of us find spiritual experiences happening more easily out in nature, in music performances, and sometimes via visual arts, dance, poetry, as well as in an intimate love setting.

@billheuber5884 2 ай бұрын

What both of you say is absolutely brilliant and absolutely correct!! Nice video, thank you for what you do!! ❤

@JGLy22086 Ай бұрын

Oh yes, I came to believe, or non believe, over many, many years. I have said and believe that when people say “god told or spoke to me” what they are saying is that this is what I want. Even as a young person I realized that the bible was written by men to protect their own personal desires. As an old woman, I’m 86, I have made my peace with religion and no longer profess any particular belief in a god. I await the end with peace and a desire to do good to those I know and love and wish the same for those around me. Peace.