1976: Meet the COMMUTERS | Nationwide | Retro Transport

1976: Meet the COMMUTERS | Nationwide | Retro Transport | BBC Archive

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Жыл бұрын

Bernard Falk investigates a modern social phenomenon, commuting. What inspires hundreds of thousands of people to spend up to four hours a day commuting to work in London? How do they pass all that time spent cooped up inside crowded train carriages and buses?
Bernard meets all manner of people on his travels, from the Waterloo Station announcer Margaret Knight - who only ever sees the commuters from afar - to Spud Murphy, the helpful stationmaster at East Farleigh - who knows the names of every commuter at his station and tries to bring his own personal touch to their journeys. Solicitor Michael Gilbert uses his commute to write 'whodunit' novels, while another commuter writes poetry, and then there's the bridge players - for whom the daily commute is often too short.
Originally broadcast 4 October, 1976.
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Пікірлер: 718

@alecstronach Ай бұрын

Regardless of who you are or what you believe in, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the world needs more Spud

@Megan-kn6gf Ай бұрын

Our lovely grandad he is missed by us all everyday a true gentleman x

@mccobsta Жыл бұрын

Spud is a legend every station needs a spud

@stefanxt350 Жыл бұрын

can you tell anything more about that nice man ?

@djpeekay25 Жыл бұрын

The kind of person who deserves an OBE or MBE.

@Chris_34 Жыл бұрын

A Sick Boy and Renton, also👍

@mjstefansson7466 Жыл бұрын

@@stefanxt350 Spud is still alive at 116 and still enjoys breakdancing and collecting hardcore gay porn

@rodrigodelprat Жыл бұрын

@@Chris_34 This Spud has even got the same surname as that Spud.

@tomvernemusic Жыл бұрын

That 'Overcrowded Railway Carriage' with everyone able to sit down made me laugh. Now that would mean you're stood nose to nose with a stranger for the entire journey!

@hanvyj2 Жыл бұрын

The shots of the busy station... It's almost empty by today's standard.

@kaitlyn__L Жыл бұрын

@@hanvyj2 I was wondering if it was due to population growth, but the UK’s only gone from 55 to 65 million in those 50 years. I suppose it must just be the migration from rural areas to the cities!

@olivercuenca4109 Жыл бұрын

@@kaitlyn__L Either that, or the growing popularity of commuting in due to property prices. By the sounds of it, back then it was unusual to travel in for work. Nowadays in many cities it's just not expected that you live near work.

@ElZilchoYo 3 ай бұрын

@@kaitlyn__L The rail service has been massively reduced, the network used to be huge but so many lines were closed because they didn't make profit, as if that's the only purpose of a railway or something. Less trains on each track too, for the same reason, you make more money cramming more people onto less trains.

@bubba842 3 ай бұрын

@@kaitlyn__Lit's definitely not because it's cheaper

@nickharvey7233 Жыл бұрын

Spud - fantastic. Making his little corner of the world better, bit by bit - if only more people took his approach to life. Lovely.

@dommidavros2211 Жыл бұрын

I'd love to see what he's doing now! Is he still there?

@danielf1313 Жыл бұрын

@@dommidavros2211 highly unlikely as the programme was made in 1976 and he was well into his 50s then.

@jimtuite3451 Жыл бұрын

No Spud today... the station in now unmanned - ticket office closed in the 1980s and Spud with it

@dommidavros2211 Жыл бұрын

@@danielf1313 Well where's he working now?

@Lookup2Wakeup Жыл бұрын

Hammed up for the camera no doubt.

@mtns7036 2 ай бұрын

Just eccentric Britain at its best. The long hot summer of 76' spud=legend

@acciid Жыл бұрын

Spud is now a ticket machine.

@Khayyam-vg9fw Жыл бұрын

And occasional swat teams of thugs in hi-vis jackets.

@sb1056sb Жыл бұрын

The mobile phone is what Spud is becoming.

@krognak Жыл бұрын

Amazing what updates in cosmetic surgery can accomplish

@taiterobinson793 Жыл бұрын

😞

@paulwoodbridge7896 Жыл бұрын

Those were the days when people knew your name and were courteous too

@markgatland977 Жыл бұрын

Please say there's a blue plaque to Spud at that station...what an absolute star

@RJH1971 Жыл бұрын

The interview with the station announcer over the tannoy is genius

@ricjuk Жыл бұрын

It wasn't really over the tannoy, they just added the echo and reverb in post production. You can see when she's actually announcing she's holding the tannoy button. Sorry, a career in film and TV makes you notice these things and spoils everything!

@Scottish_TV_Gold Жыл бұрын

@@ricjuk I don't have a career in film and TV but admittedly doubted she was actually speaking to him that way.

@dameaustel Жыл бұрын

@@ricjuk Never the less, it was still genius!

@davidmeyer188 2 ай бұрын

Also featured in the Dick Emery movie from the 1970s.

@postscript67 2 ай бұрын

@@davidmeyer188 "You want to take a photo of my bum?!" Great film.

@YourContentSucksDlck 16 күн бұрын

Everyone is talking about Spud, but the absolute poise and eliquence of Michael is incredible! The model English gentleman if ever I saw one

@snotwurfit 2 ай бұрын

I loved the old slam-door trains with their individual compartments where you could stick your head out of the window. Happy days

@krognak Жыл бұрын

Always love the long-distance shots with the presenter apparently talking to himself, and those around him looking perplexed as if he's just escaped from an institution

@thetartanspartan01 Ай бұрын

I'm glad even the Beeching cuts could not defeat Spud.

@clearskies 2 ай бұрын

Margaret is now an automated message

@jamesfrench7299 Жыл бұрын

I keep expecting 1976 to look more dated but it constantly surprises me how it doesn't. It still looks like modern society. The station signs even look way ahead.

@NoName-jq7tj Жыл бұрын

Yes. The bored look of commuters in London is the same. The clothes don’t look dated at all. I think this would have filmed over the hot summer of 1976.

@noahhughes2501 Жыл бұрын

Haha! That's because our rail service has largely stagnated since the 80s

@NoName-jq7tj Жыл бұрын

@@noahhughes2501 😂😂😂😂😂 Yes but fares are not at the 1980s price bracket.

@JudgeHill Жыл бұрын

I love how everyone is insisting "things looked the same" when they certainly did not from a couple crucial perspectives.

@Bertie_Ahern Жыл бұрын

People forget most had social media accounts, mobiles and laptops and there was a basic internet shopping offering from most retailers albeit with a smaller range of products than in recent times. But in general the experience of daily life was remarkably similar.

@analogueman123456787 3 ай бұрын

Truly, a lost world. 😞

@TheMusicianTom Жыл бұрын

The announcer Margaret Knight was getting ideas above her station. I’ll get me coat.

@RenegadeSound 3 ай бұрын

How dare you make a joke that funny 😄

@Bigaitch 2 ай бұрын

It wasn't that funny - mind you I did laugh...😂@@RenegadeSound

@SoofwanMinhas 2 ай бұрын

Priceless 😂

@premikyam2726 2 ай бұрын

a very attractive 1970s woman was Margaret

@rench1984 3 ай бұрын

People moaned like hell about British Railways in the 1970's. With the state of the railways in 2024, I bet people would go back to 1970's British Railways in a heartbeat!

@Housey1985 28 күн бұрын

Not sure, the problem with BR was it was entirely reliant on government for its funding and that led to horrific lack of capital investment from 60s to late 80s. Would a new BR be any different?

@mirzaahmed6589 21 күн бұрын

No, they wouldn't.

@rench1984 20 күн бұрын

@@mirzaahmed6589well we will see. Because it’s about the happen under an incoming Labour government.

@steamgent4592 Жыл бұрын

The seating in the carriages was so much nicer back then compared to today's rail travel.

@AtheistOrphan Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Around the Dorking area they had very springy bouncy seats.

@MurphyOCP-001 Жыл бұрын

They were less concerned about fire safety back then.

@JW93. Жыл бұрын

Like sardines now

@WeaselKing1000 Жыл бұрын

@@MurphyOCP-001 Remember proper bin men? Today's snowflakes are so worried about being burned to death, we just got on with it, health and safety gone mad.

@ricjuk Жыл бұрын

They still used those trains until around 2005. I remember the decline beginning around 2003 and it'd be increasingly special if you got to ride on one. They were infinitely cosier and comfier than the brightly lit, uncomfortable and plastic rubbish that replaced them.

@jamesdean1143 Жыл бұрын

RIP Bernard Falk BBC presenter 1943 - 1990

@kaitlyn__L Жыл бұрын

He was only 47? Damn.

@garryleeks4848 Жыл бұрын

He was young

@jamesdean1143 Жыл бұрын

@@garryleeks4848 He had a dodgy ticker.

@garryleeks4848 Жыл бұрын

@@jamesdean1143 He looks older than 33 in that video

@timpage3142 Жыл бұрын

Bless you Spud. A unique level of respect and service to the paying passenger. None of this level of care given today in our un-staffed platforms. How regressive and so sad.

@gogosegaga 4 ай бұрын

I love this channel reminds me why the UK was such a fabulous country.

@fruitking6916 2 ай бұрын

Yes….WAS.

@orlando124431 2 ай бұрын

Was

@kelvinpell4571 2 ай бұрын

And now it's Somalia with added jihad.....thanks Blair.

@Tarek_ElMaddah Ай бұрын

You guys are complaining from few thousands of immigrants that came after your armies destroyed their countries… quite hypocritical

@minerva2958 Ай бұрын

Was…

@leeshapon Ай бұрын

what a charming little video! as a gen Z it’s always fascinating to glimpse into the past like this. spud seemed like an absolute sweetheart, RIP

@charlescalthorp5375 4 ай бұрын

Those seats had a distinct smell, as did the carriages, and also the doors had a specific “clunk”. Lot’s of things one just take’s for granted then one day they are all gone

@the8ctagon 3 ай бұрын

Those apostrophes that you added to "lots" and "takes" don't belong there. Please remove them forthwith.

@Bigaitch 2 ай бұрын

Trains have a distinct smell now... probably different to the one you meant though...

@karimkekhia4369 2 ай бұрын

ahhhh this is such a wonderful video and brings back many memories. the newspapers, the smoking, no mobile phones and the old slam door emu units on the southern…. and those orange curtains and first class compartments…amazing good days!!

@TheUltimateBlooper Жыл бұрын

2:05 love it how people were just jumping off the train as it's still moving into the platform. Different time. Also... Please keep posting these little time capsules! I was born in '92, and I find all this stuff before my time to be absolutely fascinating! The BBC has a treasure trove of history in its archives O_O

@markhouse256 Жыл бұрын

Slam those doors open!

@fidelcatsro6948 Жыл бұрын

in India you can see people climbing to the top of the train as it moves as well.. even today!

@AtheistOrphan Жыл бұрын

Yeah I remember doing that, had to get your timing just right!

@TheUltimateBlooper Жыл бұрын

@@markhouse256 I think you can slam things *shut*, not open...

@TheUltimateBlooper Жыл бұрын

@@AtheistOrphan Sounds like fun to me! But I can see where someone could get their leg caught or trip and this would be a hazard. Obviously it's MUCH safer to do it the way we do now, but I can't help but think it would be fun to at least try this :)

@pprc5363 Жыл бұрын

These days Spud would be charged with stalking for phoning people.

@johnhagan-zr4pm 2 ай бұрын

Good ol' Spud

@jonathanwalker7092 Жыл бұрын

May god if only all South-eastern Rail Staff were like Spud, they should use this as a training film.

@joedimaggio3146 Жыл бұрын

They're all immigrants now

@Reddsoldier Жыл бұрын

@@joedimaggio3146 And that has a bearing on their customer service ability? No. What does though is that taking time to be a daily pleasantry is not nearly compensated for in pay and that I'm sure rail companies and their shareholders would throw a fit if they saw someone showing compassion and not charging people for the privilege.

@JohnHonda101 Жыл бұрын

Keep adding content like this, I was a happy 10 year old in 1976 with the world at my feet. Things like this make me reflect back to a happier time where I had my whole family around me.

@TheMusicalElitist 2 ай бұрын

I love comments like yours: an old man who yearns for ‘simpler times’, using modern technology to do so. What a sad little man you are.

@paulfitzpatrick3090 2 ай бұрын

I was in my last year at school. Never took the time to think what life would be like in 2024. Beyond my comprehension 😊

@stephenwride5695 Ай бұрын

@@TheMusicalElitistC U Next Tuesdxy

@markpunt9638 Жыл бұрын

What’s a bizarre line to take. Commuted on the Brighton line from 1980 to 1990 and it was thoroughly enjoyable - buffet cars, card games, chess.More fun than working.

@c1v1lwar24 Жыл бұрын

The comb over really is a lost art.

@Patensfitness.com1 Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@garryleeks4848 Жыл бұрын

Needs to make a comeback 👍

@JackSmith-kp2vs 3 ай бұрын

@garryleeks4848 Do you mean a comb back?

@paulfitzpatrick3090 2 ай бұрын

Bobby Charlton and others

@ChrisGWGreen Ай бұрын

Spud brought me to tears!! Utter legend!

@thomasawl 2 ай бұрын

spud my beloved

@WarrenCromartie2 2 ай бұрын

Love seeing these old trains. I was 7 in 1976. My dad would often take me to London Waterloo for days out. I was obsessed with trains. These days I find this same journey torturous.

@soundseeker63 Жыл бұрын

This is absolutely brilliant "Corporate image BR" era footage. Peak BR you could say. Everything in standard blue or blue/grey, standard rail typface and double arrow symbols everywhere. Captures the hum drum (you could say drab) look of 70s commuting experience perfectly. Hum drum that is except for characters like Spud Murphy who take that level of pride in what they do. He was absolutely in his element, and it showed! Today the station would be unstaffed most likely and you'd get your tickets either via a card-only payment machine or via an app. Progress....?

@amandajane8227 Жыл бұрын

I see where Jago Hazzard gets his style. At the start I thought it was one of his videos.

@Quarker Жыл бұрын

This was a strangely poetic way to look at commuting and almost feels ahead of its time in 1976. Also, the Helvetica font is literally being used for everything in this video!

@djslybacon Жыл бұрын

Helvética is the 70s….

@Dunkcanio Жыл бұрын

It's BR's own typeface, Rail Alphabet

@bussesandtrains1218 Жыл бұрын

@@Dunkcanio anything and everything from 1965-1992 used the typeface

@harrynewiss4630 3 ай бұрын

what a nice country England used to be

@LapinPete Ай бұрын

That's a country I would like to visit.

@mistofoles Жыл бұрын

"Morning ! Just making sure you're up, don't want you to miss your train !" "Bugger off, Spud, it's my day off."

@TheUltimateBlooper Жыл бұрын

Brilliant xD

@louiem2 Жыл бұрын

😂

@Chris_34 Жыл бұрын

Hahaha! 😂😂😂

@BenDover-ln6ns Жыл бұрын

Or he’s got his Mrs Bent over.

@timecapsule. 2 ай бұрын

I wish we still had "Spuds" at stations today.

@insanitymp4447 2 ай бұрын

You can often get a friendly face at the station cafe

@thomasm1964 Жыл бұрын

Ah, slam door carriages! I was a kid in 1976 but still grew up to commute (for a few years) on the damn things. So glad to get out of London in the mid-eighties.

@fidelcatsro6948 Жыл бұрын

congratulations

@Nicefoolkilla Жыл бұрын

I was born in the 80s

@JayJay-nc7pr Жыл бұрын

London must have changed a lot from the mid 70s to the mid 80s

@spidyman8853 Жыл бұрын

@@JayJay-nc7pr Oh yea very much

@snowdog9954 Жыл бұрын

You'd hop off as the train pulled in, had to time it just right though or you could fall flat on your face!

@Virsho 3 ай бұрын

this feels like I am time traveling

@jackr1779 2 ай бұрын

Bless Spud! Fly high lovely fellow!

@cz2301 Жыл бұрын

I’d love to see John Cleese dressed as a policeman and arresting the reporter who is screaming in the middle of the platform. He could even come into the scene as the Minister of Funny Walks.

@haillyc7227 Жыл бұрын

I like you

@lukemitchell1975 Жыл бұрын

Or blakey off the buses

@jasonruston3315 Жыл бұрын

Spud is true customer service amazing

@dameaustel Жыл бұрын

Spusd Murphy, should be remembered as a national hero. Spuds Commuters club! Imagine a morning call from the station master! WOW!

@lbukem4259 Жыл бұрын

It's programmes like this that make you realise we're closer to the 70s than we realise - daily routines have hardly changed.

@scottyunitedboy2925 Жыл бұрын

With one difference…the human touch is almost completely gone

@Hashterix Жыл бұрын

If you pay closer attention you'll realise that other than the buildings and rails being in the same place, and that people still commute, literally everything else has changed. From the technology through to the people themselves and how we interact today. People are complete strangers today and the cohesion in the society you see in the video is now completely vacant.

@alexgreen3662 Жыл бұрын

“Some will pay up to £1000 a year for a season ticket”.. wow and that was in 1976 when houses in Manchester and Liverpool were still like £5000. That’s an expensive season ticket

@leeosborne3793 2 ай бұрын

£1000 in 1976 is the equivalent of just over £6400 in 2024.

@rosemarycollyer7008 12 күн бұрын

What a remarkable guy Spud was

@hermanmunster3358 14 сағат бұрын

Good old Spud, he was one in a million, the EPITOMY of good customer service. With a sense of duty that really did make his patrons feel highly valued.

@JewelKnightJess Жыл бұрын

The world needs more Spuds!!

@JohnHonda101 Жыл бұрын

Oh, I doff my cap to Spud.

@davidbrazier9246 Жыл бұрын

Spud gave me advice on constructing a rockery.

@Alan_GA Ай бұрын

"Sits in isolated splendor, 13 feet above the station" British reporters of yesteryear had a knack for words.

@NewRiverRoots 18 күн бұрын

We need spud now more than ever.

@MrJohnQCitizen 5 ай бұрын

the sound of all those wooden doors slamming. Simply sensational

@azuma892 Жыл бұрын

Even railway enthusiasts hate commuting, unless their train is a class due to be withdrawn from service soon, people tend to only treasure things when they are gone. 😉

@WeaselKing1000 Жыл бұрын

Witness the baffling affection for the atrocious and wholly without-redeeming-features Pacers here in the UK. Goodbye to them - and good riddance.

@JasmineSurrealVideos Жыл бұрын

I thought this would be quite dull but it was a lovely piece of footage, Spud is a delight, and every station should have a Spud U Like lol (90s joke) and the writerly creativity of the commuters, plus the old solicitor chap was very much like my much missed grandfather in his demeanour and speech. Wonderful stuff. The attractive lady announcer in the booth had such a nice voice as well.

@anthonyleighton4754 Жыл бұрын

The country had standards......things weren't dumbed down as much.....

@spitfires1979 Жыл бұрын

It is amazing to see the Home Counties and London full of English people, I had almost forgotten what it was like before the age of mass-immigration.

@northstar1950 23 күн бұрын

Amazing bloke, what an ambassador for B.R.

@garryleeks4848 Жыл бұрын

Spud commuters club , wonder if it’s still going, good old spud

@tommysteele9487 Жыл бұрын

love these BBC films thanks for sharing them

@jasonl4411. Жыл бұрын

What a lovely piece of history

@4nna5 Жыл бұрын

love the little snippets of Morgenspaziergang in this

@davewalker7126 Жыл бұрын

I can remember that being broadcast! It was the lady in the booth talking back to the reporter using the PA (although I can see now it was not real) that jogged the memory.

@scottg3456 Жыл бұрын

What a gent Spud was, if only stations had workers like him now. Also crazy to see passengers could smoke on the trains back then!

@stephenholt4670 Жыл бұрын

3:19 - I imagine people around the station were a little confused to hear Margaret's one-sided conversation broadcast on the tannoy!

@BDub2024 2 ай бұрын

Who or what replaced Spud. Hard shoes to fill.

@nullnull7495 5 ай бұрын

Wow. Spud is soo sweet

@mikeh5431 Жыл бұрын

Absolutely amazing! Thanks

@bluecardholder Жыл бұрын

That was me in '76 - although my journey was less arduous from the suburbs of London it still eat into the day especially in winter when you never saw the sun during the week.

@Flaccidtetris Жыл бұрын

Love the bit at 0:34 where the train leaves as they're interviewing him haha

@garryleeks4848 Жыл бұрын

Probably a banker

@Thomas-yr9ln Жыл бұрын

I was 21 back in them days. It seemed like I had forever but now I fear tomorrow.

@robertmarsh3588 2 ай бұрын

Lots of us feel like this I suspect though I was 12 at the time (and an avid trainspotter), so a little behind you.

@orlando124431 2 ай бұрын

They don’t make them like spud anymore.

@NubianPrince85 Жыл бұрын

Love it .....and love Spud...the good old days!

@pmacc3557 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant Mr. Spud❤

@iancragg6192 Жыл бұрын

Michael Gilbert’s novels are being republished in the British Library Crime Classics series.

@darleytransportandtravel6353 3 ай бұрын

A first class compartment! If only we could see luxuries like that today.

@greentambourine2323 3 ай бұрын

The wonderful Michael Gilbert scribbling away there, I have just read his Game Without Rules book of short stories.

@dkveg Жыл бұрын

“Overcrowded carriage” with nobody standing and people sitting on comfy armchairs.😂

@veggie42 Жыл бұрын

and no mobiles. People actually talked. Hardly any people of colour you might get the odd staff or cleaner

@veggie42 Жыл бұрын

women were secretaries and trolley dollys

@leeosborne3793 Жыл бұрын

They weren't comfy armchairs unless you forked out for first class. The 2+3 seating in a 1950s vintage BR suburban carriage was horribly cramped, and you got trodden on and blasted by the weather every time the train stopped at a station.

@bt3743 7 ай бұрын

why are you nostalgic for no ethnic minorities?@@veggie42

@krystjanchanerley9288 2 ай бұрын

So well spoken

@JarrodBaniqued Жыл бұрын

I love the use of the midsection of Rossini’s Thieving Magpie overture here

@plinkplanky Жыл бұрын

I thought it was from The last track on Kraftwerk's autobahn album

@sheppo Жыл бұрын

It's remarkable how little the look of commuting has changed in 46 years.

@richardwills-woodward5340 Жыл бұрын

Try more than 150 years! It was similar in the latter half of the 1800's. The modern world and commuting was created in the UK for better or worse.

@mistofoles Жыл бұрын

Spud's cap defied gravity.

@sc3599 Жыл бұрын

Great video. Seeing the crowds at Waterloo and comparing with today makes the demographic change that has taken place since then quite stark.

@fiverZ Жыл бұрын

But apparently it's a "conspiracy theory" if you notice it

@benfisher1376 Жыл бұрын

It's quite shocking

@donlogan83 Жыл бұрын

Ironically Waterloo is one of the places where it’s least visible, given where the trains head to from there

@retrodude123 Жыл бұрын

@@fiverZliterally no one calls it a conspiracy theory - anything you can check in the census is not a conspiracy theory my friend 😂

@fiverZ Жыл бұрын

@@retrodude123 It does get called a conspiracy theory...

@robertw9651 Жыл бұрын

I used to go to college for 3 years on the slammers in Kent in the mid to late 90s. I still miss the smell and sound of them not to mention they were far more comfortable than anything modern.

@dronespace Жыл бұрын

Spud is a legend

@MarknoblesAcidhouseparty Жыл бұрын

we grew up in Benfleet ... was great seeing this

@justmanic9673 Жыл бұрын

Spud seems like a sweetheart

@johnlladron735 4 күн бұрын

Great video. Amazing how we now tolerate much worse conditions on the trains and have nobody at the station keeping things ticking over. We are just human resources.

@PompeyBoy66 Ай бұрын

This is wonderful. Spud I like.

@stevenj2380 6 ай бұрын

Stunning they had doors to compartments the rider could open! OMG. Quaint, civil dangerous (?)

@OtakuAzrall Жыл бұрын

0:26 - oh mate, you have no idea how bad it is now. The LUXURY you had then. At least you have a seat!

@spockboy Жыл бұрын

Excellent film.

@Quebecoisegal Жыл бұрын

For a while I traveled from Tunbridge Wells to London, and was amused by the way people queued up expecting the door to be opposite where they stood and they really didn't like it if you got on before they did. I learnt after a few months to walk to Tunbridge Wells West, get on before them, and avoid their petty unpleasantness. Spud was clearly a man who enjoyed his job and had a way with people, a great example of how to do it.

@veggie42 Жыл бұрын

OMG a shame that the railway was gone

@lawrencer25 Жыл бұрын

Fabulous

@borderlands6606 Жыл бұрын

Not so bad in first class on slam door stock, the high-density coaches were another matter. Especially on narrow clearance lines with bars on the window. Every seat had a door and people clambered over you at every station. Loved the horsehair and moquette though.