1984(Jan) Masters SF McEnroe vs Wilander

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Nihonno McEnroe

Nihonno McEnroe

14 жыл бұрын

Пікірлер: 100
@michaelbarlow6610
@michaelbarlow6610 5 жыл бұрын
The 1984 Masters match between McEnroe and Wilander is a perfect example of why McEnroe that year played a level of tennis unequaled before or since. On one of the points McEnroe hit a stretch backhand drop volley crosscourt in which McEnroe was standing next to the right side singles sideline and his drop volley landed about 3-4 inches beyond the net just inside the opposite singles sideline on Wilander's side of the court and Wilander had no chance of getting the ball back. On another point McEnroe hit a touch forehand drop shot that landed barely beyond the net on Wilander's backhand side of the court (the ad court) and Wilander once again could not get the ball back. You didn't see Federer during his dominant years on the men's pro tennis tour attempt shots like that on a tennis court.
@lb33isu
@lb33isu 14 жыл бұрын
The next year--January, 85--McEnroe again faced Wilander in the Masters semis and defeated him 6-1, 6-1 in a stunning performance. McEnroe's play at that time was in my opinion the best tennis anyone had ever seen. To this day, McEnroe's touch at net and ability to rob opponents of their timing with groundstrokes hit early remain in my opinion unsurpassed in the game's history. I do not believe any rating of tennis's all-time greats should have any player ahead of McEnroe.
@AlanGoswami-nz9lg
@AlanGoswami-nz9lg 4 жыл бұрын
No one is ever ahead of McEnroe....in human evolution !
@ST-xg3gy
@ST-xg3gy 3 жыл бұрын
Agree
@staffan144
@staffan144 2 жыл бұрын
Disagree
@jansnauwaert1785
@jansnauwaert1785 Жыл бұрын
Strongly disagree. And mind you: I used to be a McEnroe fan.
@dks13827
@dks13827 Жыл бұрын
@@jansnauwaert1785 used to be ?
@arnoldjr200040
@arnoldjr200040 8 жыл бұрын
God this is old school tennis. Using slice spins, speed anticipation and skill. Back when you lost to a guy because he was the better player, not because he hit the ball harder.
@alanchong7513
@alanchong7513 8 жыл бұрын
Who won this match between Mac and Mats~
@sebbytennis4298
@sebbytennis4298 4 жыл бұрын
The unique continental grip that Mac was using plus the equipment of the time made power tennis a risky proposition. Power on both wings really started with The arrival of Aaron Krickstein and Jimmy Arias who had already modern grips and a game like Andre Agassi and Jim Courrier. But if you really pay attention the top 3 players use the slice regularly and touch shots a lot to change pace and slow the game down possibly more than the players in the top 100
@sebbytennis4298
@sebbytennis4298 4 жыл бұрын
Alan Chong Mac won in straight sets
@pedroV2003
@pedroV2003 3 жыл бұрын
@@sebbytennis4298 personally I think it was the equipment more than the players. Borg had already been using the western grips long before Arias and Krickstein and when you look at his forehand stroke side by side to Federer etc you can see that they look almost identical.
@sebbytennis4298
@sebbytennis4298 3 жыл бұрын
@@pedroV2003 Agreed
@Head318Hunter
@Head318Hunter 5 жыл бұрын
I love how Johns ground strokes resemble table tennis more than tennis. Combined with the left hand, amazing accuracy, unique and hard to read serve, the attacking style. He's either the #1 or #2 all time best serve and volley player ever. Stefan Edberg being the other. Sampras and Becker #3 and #4 in no order.
@jasonbrooks6562
@jasonbrooks6562 6 жыл бұрын
Between this masters(1984) and the following year mcenroe played the best tennis l have seen in my life.
@markanderson3669
@markanderson3669 5 жыл бұрын
I too agree...if he wins the 1984 French, an incredible year would have been an even better year, and moves him up the list of the greatest players of all time.
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 5 жыл бұрын
@Alberto Stanghellini Although Mac utterly outplayed Lendl for the first two sets at the French '84, Lendl has to be given credit for hanging in there. It must really irk him when some people refer to that final as the match Mac lost, rather than the title Lendl won.
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 5 жыл бұрын
Completely agree that in '84, Mac played the best tennis ever seen. It saddens me that there is no place for that kind of game anymore - it's all about power. There's no room at all for touch and artistry. That's why I simply don't watch tennis anymore.
@iamtman1
@iamtman1 4 жыл бұрын
There’s nothing McEnroe did better than Federer in his prime! Mac would be the first to tell you that. And as far as no artistry since McEnroe, you obviously didn’t watch prime Federer. He was the mist talented player ever.
@iamtman1
@iamtman1 4 жыл бұрын
Most talented I meant ( Fed)
@ronaldcrosby2388
@ronaldcrosby2388 2 жыл бұрын
Me and my brother got to see McEnroe and Wilander play in an exhibition match in Albuquerque NM January 1986.
@danielhkhk7283
@danielhkhk7283 Жыл бұрын
So beautiful tennis!
@ferrari79100
@ferrari79100 14 жыл бұрын
high quality of sound and immages; very good sport video thank's
@mrbobevans
@mrbobevans 14 жыл бұрын
When you watch Mats, you come away with the impression that he could run all day and not be tired.
@SuperHammaren
@SuperHammaren 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, you have to win every point by yourself, he will not miss and he will find your weak points and there the ball will come.
@dickn.ormous1064
@dickn.ormous1064 3 жыл бұрын
It's incredible how he won 7 slams with so little game.
@SuperHammaren
@SuperHammaren 3 жыл бұрын
@@dickn.ormous1064 But so big mind. Had to be smarter than the others. But frankly, Connors was very much heart and fight, he did not hit very hard either.
@jordanaus75
@jordanaus75 3 жыл бұрын
@@dickn.ormous1064 he was one of the smartest and best tacticians the game has ever seen. Also very mentally tough. He actually developed a very good all court game that no one talks about.
@absoluteb22
@absoluteb22 13 жыл бұрын
@lb33isu well said. I believe if tennis was pure, meaning that small headed rackets-possibly wooden were used, Mcenroe would destroy players who came after him.(particularly the likes of Nadal)
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 5 жыл бұрын
Yep - for all their power, very few players in the modern era would even know where to start with a wooden racket.
@Head318Hunter
@Head318Hunter 5 жыл бұрын
1:14 best EVER touch and angles at the net.
@mattcorcoran7082
@mattcorcoran7082 2 жыл бұрын
I actually think Pat Cash was a better volleyer than McEnroe. He won Wimbledon barely able to hit a ground stroke in at all.
@arnoldjr200040
@arnoldjr200040 7 жыл бұрын
It was in my opinion the middle of the 1985 season. He won the WTC tournament in Dallas a few weeks later Lendl took him apart at a clay court event at Forrest Hills. It was down hill from there. He got served off the court by Kevin Curren at Wimbledon in the quarters and a five hour plus simifinal against Wilander doomed him against Lendl in the 85 US Open Final. 1986 was a catastrophe leading to a six month sabbatical after that it was over. Some say drugs some say Tatum O'Neal some say both. All I know is the most talented player to ever pick up a raquet would spend the rest of he's career at best a top 15 player. The End.
@chrisg.475
@chrisg.475 7 жыл бұрын
Do you think anything in his game changed? I have heard some say his service motion changed very slightly, and it hurt 1st serve percentage and control. Peter Flemming said he hurt his hamstring and it was never re-habbed properly. Not sure... Maybe the power game caught up to him.
@7Lukibi99Tore7
@7Lukibi99Tore7 7 жыл бұрын
Supposedly, one of the major reasons for McEnroe's tennis decline after his absolutely brilliant 1984 season, was because his serve, especially his second serve, lost some of the velocity that it had before. A number of the male pro players back then mentioned that as a reason for McEnroe's tennis decline including Lendl. Some time after the 1984 season, Lendl remarked that McEnroe's second serve just ''sits-up'' compared to the way his second serve was before.
@jasonbrooks6562
@jasonbrooks6562 6 жыл бұрын
Arnold Stephenson not completely accurate in the run up to the 85 us open he consecutively beat lendl in straight sets in Montreal and stratton mountain. In the open final he had set points to take the first set(on his own serve). The marathon 5 set semi-final against wilander certainly took its toll and in the end lendl won the title 7/6 6/3 6/4. There were few highlights after that (wtc finals winner in 89, Wimbledon s/f 89&92. Us open s/f 90,beating Becker defending champion at Australian 92 ).a combination of a tempestuous marriage, niggly injuries and the advent of power tennis all led to a decline. He did end 1989 as world#4.
@ossyable
@ossyable 5 жыл бұрын
I always thought the new power game with the graphite rackets around the mid eighties made his finesse and touch redundant. It's a remarkable testimony he still competed at a high level. 2 Wimbledon semis and a doubles grand slam in 1992. But for the change in technology he would have been at the top well into his thirties aka rosewall
@fundhund62
@fundhund62 4 жыл бұрын
He didn't win at Dallas. He actually lost the first round to Nyström, the first of many disappointments in 1985.
@SuperHammaren
@SuperHammaren 5 жыл бұрын
Mcenroe is playing modern in a way as he approach the ball mowing forward as fast as possible. The technique is not exactly modern but his wrist.. my god his touch is soo good. He would be a top player today as well but he would play the game totally different.
@mephatboi
@mephatboi 14 жыл бұрын
love the camera angle u'd think after 25 yrs the camera work & instant replays in today's matches would be better but it's actually way worse
@knine1652
@knine1652 5 жыл бұрын
Wilander's game was always about as exciting as dried leaves.
@th8257
@th8257 3 жыл бұрын
So many players in particular could learn a lot from him. He understood firstly that matches tend to be lost by errors rather than won with winners. Secondly, he also understood that winning isn't always about going out and playing your natural game brilliantly, it's also often about looking at your opponents and finding ways to make them play worse. He had one of the very best tennis brains.
@SyncopateTheShot
@SyncopateTheShot 3 жыл бұрын
@@th8257 You are right. He brought down the level of everyone who played against him. For example, against most people Lendl was an aggressive player. But he always played tentatively against Wilander. Wilander added more variety to his game as time went on. The 1982 French final between him and Vilas was the pits.
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, Wilander's wasn't the most entertaining game, but there were worse - think Brad Gilbert, completely dull-as-ditchwater. "Winning dirty" was about the only way he could win.
@seguso
@seguso Жыл бұрын
What? Wilander's running passing shots where the most exciting thing to watch!
@niamhbrennan4482
@niamhbrennan4482 10 ай бұрын
Rubbish
@mirnesnuhanovic9597
@mirnesnuhanovic9597 4 жыл бұрын
At moments I get the impression like John is not hitting the ball. Big difference then was that they played a lot from the base and inside the court and from the net. Today most of the game hapens behind the base line, one meter or meter and the half or more, it has changed drasticly. Today is about power back then it was about skill and feeling.
@morrismarshall1575
@morrismarshall1575 Жыл бұрын
I think the old school tennis was much more exciting than today's slugfests. It's amazing what players back then did with low tech rackets
@HermanWaldorf
@HermanWaldorf 4 жыл бұрын
two of my favorite players. Loving Mac's tennis is easy but I also enjoyed a lot Wilander's. I liked his capacity to stay focused and the fact that, after all, he invested in making his tennis less predictable by learning to play even by the net (if I remember well there was a period in which he was playing double to improve his skills)
@SuperHammaren
@SuperHammaren 4 жыл бұрын
Yep, won wimbledon in 86 with Nyström.
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 5 жыл бұрын
The superb tennis on display here shows up the modern game for what it is today - a boring, unvarying baseline slugfest, with no touch or finesse at all. Mac, you were magnificent - and you are missed, mate.
@fundhund62
@fundhund62 4 жыл бұрын
Tennis has made a huge step backwards over the last 30+ years. In hindsight, the change in racket technology was a big mistake. "The game has become faster, but not more intelligent" (Martina Hingis).
@Rackad
@Rackad 4 жыл бұрын
I'd say the late 90s was a real slugfest. Watch fog example the final in grand slam cup between Magnus Larsson and Sampras(not sure of the exact year). Not sure any points were more than 3 strokes. They've slowed down the courts last decade and it shows. No crazy servers anymore.
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 2 жыл бұрын
@@fundhund62 That's actually putting it kindly.
@wreckanchor
@wreckanchor 10 ай бұрын
2 Legends
@sbalak
@sbalak 5 жыл бұрын
Wow, no slamming the ball to kingdom come; it's all about placement and finesse.
@bwaters735
@bwaters735 4 жыл бұрын
Sal Balakrishnan raquets didnt allow for it,
@doctornov7
@doctornov7 7 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of how Fed is playing atm (McEnroe): rallying and then unleashing a big one and following it in
@TheKimwee
@TheKimwee 11 жыл бұрын
Really like Wilander's forehand here: open stance and a modern-looking finish at hip level. I think it was really cutting edge stuff. His footwork on the backhand is a different story as he often hit with a closed stance. I don't think it was quite as effective a stroke and might explain why he favoured the slice in engineering subsequent GS wins. Anyone have any thoughts to share on this? I also hear he is one of the nicest, most modest people ever to achieve great success in the sport.
@chrisg.475
@chrisg.475 7 жыл бұрын
At the time, Mats backhand was considered one of the best in tennis and an "all-time-great" shot. Like Connors backhand or Lendl's forehand. Interestingly his forehand was just considered "good" but no Borg or Lendl. Chris
@7Lukibi99Tore7
@7Lukibi99Tore7 7 жыл бұрын
Wilander's two-handed backhand , although very good, was never at the level of greatness of Connors', Budge's, Rosewall's or Borg's backhands or Lendl's forehand.
@evenkatasubramanian4809
@evenkatasubramanian4809 5 жыл бұрын
Wilander backhand is more effective than his forehand, lendl himself admitted in early 80s and his backhand down the line was amongst the best during that time. His forehand is rather loopy and effective only as passing shots bit hardly to win rallies from backcourt. His mimics on court is pale shadow to what happens these days even after winning big grandslams. For sure, most modest persons ever to play this sport. Want to meet Mats at least once in my life. Wilander the great....
@th8257
@th8257 2 жыл бұрын
Some stuff I read at the time said Wilander developed the slice backhand for a number of reasons. Firstly, he wanted to broaden his game and once you get the slice technique right you can use it for approach shots (he started coming in a lot more), drop shots and lobs. Secondly, given his reputation for long matches, slicing his backhand used less energy that topspin, whereas it can actually tire your opponent out because they have to dig it out each time.
@peachman5698
@peachman5698 10 ай бұрын
I agree to a certain extent...I do think his BH up the line followed by his coming in was quite good....His footwork in general was exemplary.....so quick off the mark
@petegasper2806
@petegasper2806 7 ай бұрын
They ended their match statistiks with 7 wins for Wilander against McCenroe and 7 wins for McCenroe against Wilander. A tie. I have to Give the advantagd to Wilander though as he faced Off against McCaeneoe at 17 years old While McCaeneoe allready was established No 1 or 2 in the world. Had They been the same age Wilander would have had more wins over McCenroe. Wilander was something extra. At 17 years old he Wins the French Open. In Australian Open at 18 years of age he easily defeats McCenroe at Grass at Australian Open. Wilander won 7 Grandslams became works no 1 for 6 months and retired at age 24. His Grandslamtitlar wins was French Open 1982, Australian Open 1983 and 1984, French Open 1985. Australian Open, French Open and US Open 1988. Besides winning 3 put of four Grand slams in 1988 he won the 5 th and 6 th most important tournaments, Key Biscane and Cincinnati. Wilander is the only player Who has won Hard Court tournament in Cincinnati 4 times.
@arnoldjr200040
@arnoldjr200040 7 жыл бұрын
I think like most true problems you face in life it was a combination of everything. If you choose to abuse talents you have been freely given in life you are doomed to forever lose them.
@keithmckeith
@keithmckeith 10 жыл бұрын
Ib33isu - %100 agree
@pablotjob
@pablotjob 14 жыл бұрын
where was this Master? US??? which city???
@KingCast65
@KingCast65 14 жыл бұрын
Outstanding clarity, is this the only vid?
@williamsanders1552
@williamsanders1552 2 жыл бұрын
At 2:13 the best reaction at net.
@pablotjob
@pablotjob 11 жыл бұрын
new york???
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 5 жыл бұрын
Yes, that's where the Masters were held every year back then, at Madison Square Garden.
@Schrittwieser
@Schrittwieser 14 жыл бұрын
New York at the Garden
@arnoldjr200040
@arnoldjr200040 8 жыл бұрын
McEnroe in straight sets. This was when he's game was still solid, especially from the back court.
@chrisg.475
@chrisg.475 7 жыл бұрын
Arnold- When do you think John's game went off? WHY did it go off and how were the problems manifest...? Chris
@timobrienwells
@timobrienwells 7 жыл бұрын
1985 I think. Not only did he take a break after being No.1 in 84, but the larger racquets made his game a little bit less effective.
@bonhamhouse1169
@bonhamhouse1169 7 жыл бұрын
Tatum O'Neal.
@santacarmela7863
@santacarmela7863 4 жыл бұрын
Que empuñadura mas cerrada la de wilander!!!!
@Looii5
@Looii5 14 жыл бұрын
Was Mats doin' a bit of coke in the change over?
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 2 жыл бұрын
I wondered about that too. McEnroe didn't look too happy about it
@JK-vc7ie
@JK-vc7ie 17 күн бұрын
high school girls hit harder than this these days. different game, not easier, just different
@jeffcostello4779
@jeffcostello4779 4 жыл бұрын
Interested in more games with McEnroe, Connors and Borg on DVD? Mail me for a list at: Sportdiggare@mail.com.
@hunkgolden5726
@hunkgolden5726 5 жыл бұрын
McEnroe dictating points by consistently hitting the ball on the rise on his backhand. He failed to do this later in his tennis career. He had to fight real hard to win pts. after this. It cost him future slams.
@Largecanyondog
@Largecanyondog Жыл бұрын
There are two eras of tennis, before Agassi and after Agassi. The before era is a little hard to watch, but a fun novelty to look back on for a set.
@morrismarshall1575
@morrismarshall1575 Жыл бұрын
Yes, but you have to take into consideration the low tech rackets old school players used. How players today could function with the racket that Mac or Connors used?
@totogroove
@totogroove 4 жыл бұрын
Krass! Das Tempo ist heute Kreisliga ;-)
@dcfunhouse
@dcfunhouse 9 ай бұрын
'84 was the crybaby's best year, for sure.
@sermikan13
@sermikan13 Жыл бұрын
C'est dingue, on a l'impression qu'ils jouent au ralenti...
@mattcorcoran7082
@mattcorcoran7082 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like table tennis compared to today’s power hitters.
@bwaters735
@bwaters735 4 жыл бұрын
Mcenroe hits like a girl lol
@robocop5935
@robocop5935 3 жыл бұрын
Mcenroe is a legend .
@ericselstad8257
@ericselstad8257 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I’m sure that is the first thing everyone thought when they got beat by Jonny Mac!! “I just beat by a gurl!!”
@SMSJSC
@SMSJSC 2 жыл бұрын
Really? Show me a "girl" who plays anything like that nowadays. Or any time in the past for that matter. What a dumbass comment. But you're just a troll, aren't you?
@morrismarshall1575
@morrismarshall1575 Жыл бұрын
I saw him play an exhibition match with Jim Courier in 2009. Johnny Mac has always, first and foremost, been a touch player. His serve is classically unorthodox
@ingenerchik
@ingenerchik 2 жыл бұрын
Such a boring, unsexy, ephemeral style. It s almost painful to watch. I like Roger’s way of winning much better.
@miguel6440
@miguel6440 2 жыл бұрын
Wilander ? i agree.
@SuperHammaren
@SuperHammaren 2 жыл бұрын
@@miguel6440 Wilander was not exactly winning, was he?
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