2 PHANTOMS vs 28 MiGs: The Epic First Dogfight Of The Yom Kippur War Analysed

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2 PHANTOMS vs 28 MiGs: The Epic First Dogfight Of The Yom Kippur War Analysed

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Күн бұрын

The Air Battle Of Ophir is a classic dogfighting tale. The surprise attack. The insurmountable odds. The outrageous kill ratio. It has the lot.
Curiously it has somehow avoided the same kind of detailed scrutiny that similar tales from other wars have attracted. In this video I tell the story of the battle with as much cross referencing of sources as I can. I then analyse the claims and counter-claims about what happened 50 years ago in the early afternoon of the 6th of October 1973.
I hope you enjoy this one. Given the lack of accurate accounts of the action it took me a long while to get to a view on the action that I believed in.
Sources/ Notes:
Amir Nachumi is a funny and very engaging speaker. He has been interviewed on numerous occasions about the battle. There are variations on the story each time - to be expected with the passing of history. What is notable is that he has little recollection of most of the actions in the battle. See what you make of these:
'How The War Fell on Me' (2013) • Amir Nachumi's Story -...
Eagle 2016 interview: • Eagle 2016: Amir Nachumi
Arab MiGs Volume 5 was a great source of Egyptian testimony on the battle: www.harpia-pub...
IDF account of the battle: www.iaf.org.il...
The maps in the battle were based on my assessment of the speed of the aircraft, testimony from pilot interviews and by looking at the few pictures of the action. I am not an expert on the local geography of Sharm El Sheik and there are few pictures of it from the time. What I would say is that the other popular video on this story has the action happening far too close to the runway. Lovely animations though.

Пікірлер: 285

@jeepman1467 10 ай бұрын

The Phantom is still the worlds biggest distributor of Mig parts.

@dubmeisterxd2133 10 ай бұрын

To be fair to the sidewinder kill ratio, the very high humidity levels of Vietnam apparently seriously hampered the reliability and maintenance of both the Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles. I don't know how well Israel maintained their equipment, but it is worth noting that the conditions of Sharm are likely much more favorable for A2A missiles than that of Vietnam. Great video!

@johncashwell1024 10 ай бұрын

Well said. At that time, Israeli Aircraft & Weapons Maintenance SOPs require constant vigilance in maintaining equipment because they did not have the luxury of expendable equipment compared to US inventories and because the threat of attack was very real thus doctrine was based on readiness for imminent attack.

@richmcgee434 10 ай бұрын

Very good point. The bulk of the statistical data I've seen on Sidewinders come from a theater where the logistical side of things impacted their combat performance.

@amerigo88 10 ай бұрын

@@richmcgee434I served seaside of tbe Persian Gulf in 1990. It was basically 2000 km due east of Sharm El Sheik, on the same latitude. It was hot and very humid - in December. It certainly doesn't rain in that part of the world like in Southeast Asia, but it's nasty for electronics.

@steveanderson9290 10 ай бұрын

@richmcgee434 I must respectfully disagree. I lived and worked as an electronics tech (primarily radio/radar) in Saudi in the early '80s and spent most of my time in Jeddah, but deployed all around the Kingdom to include Riyadh, Daharan, and KKMC. The climates in those locations varied, but I would classify all of them as being benign, or even favorable in terms of their affect on electronic systems. Humidity in and of itself is not a factor unless it periodically condenses, and I do not remember ever encountering that as an issue. In addition, I would imagine sidewinders of that era would have been packaged with the climate of southeast asia in mind and would have stored and deployed without much climatic impact on their viability. I also imagine they didn't spend much time on the shelf in Israel in that time frame 🙂. All factors considered, my gut and experience lead me to expect a significantly better success rate from sidewinders in this conflict that was experienced in Viet Nam.

@Chilly_Billy 10 ай бұрын

I have also read that Sparrow unreliability for the USN was at least in part due to electronics damage from repeated carrier landings. It makes sense. That's a lot of deceleration force for fairly early solid-state components.

@LanceRomanceF4E 9 ай бұрын

I flew F-4Es and had a conversation with an Israeli F-4E pilot with a MiG kill in this war. He said he had just dropped bombs on target and climbing home and was trying to lite a benson and hedges cigarette when a MiG flew in front of him. He said “I still had the cigarette in my mouth, but quickly made a small pipper (gun site) adjustment and flamed his ass.” Best war stories are at the Nellis AFB O’club bar back in the day.

@PixelSchnitzel 10 ай бұрын

Now THAT is how you present an honest and balanced historical account. Bravo!

@Ubique2927 10 ай бұрын

Sentries should sound the alarm before speaking to anyone. Saying sorry is better than burying people.

@Chilly_Billy 10 ай бұрын

I hope we'll see further presentations on the Yom Kippur War in the air. The first two have been excellent. 👍

@KO-pk7df 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for providing a video that centers on honesty and research instead of hyped-up Hollywood antics for click bait. My father flew F-4s in Vietnam and was a fighter weapons instructor, he would have loved having the F-4E with the proper gun!

@julianmorrisco 10 ай бұрын

Five minutes in: beautifully written script - evocative without sounding like it’s overwritten (some larger channels lay it on way too thick and use far too many cliches for my taste, but not here) and the sound is excellent. It was always good in other videos bar one small issue. Fixed. Really enjoying listening and watching as I walk the dog.

@never2late_mtb349 9 ай бұрын

Talking of laying it on thick. One of those channels did that with the site of the Tirpitz. Starting the video as if this was an amazing discovery of some thing long lost. Except everyone knew where the Tirpitz was in shallow waters in Tromso Fjord, about 100 yards from the shore with it's keel visible above water, since the RAF sank it in 1944. I far prefer these amateur channels who dig into the primary sources and leave the sensationalising out.

@walksfarwolf6070 9 ай бұрын

Cool morning in the desert. Ground and air temps low. Jet exhaust like a "shoot me" sign against low temp background. Opposing pilots with poor coms and possibly not maneuvering as would an experienced pilot in a dog fight. Maybe... Very good and well presented cases and overall an excellent video. Thank you for putting this together.

@andy347 9 ай бұрын

The AIM-9 you show at 19:12 is not an AIM-9D but an AIM-9L which was significantly more advanced and not yet developed at the time of this fight. Excellent video overall though. Oh, and here's a fighter pilot maxim: Never give the odds in a dogfight...

@mrcoffee70 10 ай бұрын

Would say that a higher hit percentage from the sidewinder could be from lack of defensive maneuvering since no lock warning is given and lack of situational awareness.

@teodorferseta8254 10 ай бұрын

The target drones the Sidewinder got the 50-60% hit ratio against didn't do any defensive maneuvering either.

@kennethmartin1300 10 ай бұрын

@@teodorferseta8254The targeted Egyptian planes would be some degree larger than drones, and with Israeli pilots fighting for their lives and their base. Egyptians could have also become target-fixated.

@Diadema033 9 ай бұрын

@@kennethmartin1300 nope, as in practice firings tipically you are not firing while flying a treetop level in a hurry with unknown enemies all around you.

@WardenWolf 10 ай бұрын

MiG-21's and MiG-17's vs. Phantoms: "It sucks to be you." The Phantom was arguably the single best Cold War fighter the US ever made. While overshadowed by more flashy aircraft like the F-14, the Phantom proved insanely durable, reliable, versatile, and highly upgradeable; there was basically nothing the Phantom could not do well during its prime years. It was also one of the fastest Cold War fighters, easily hitting Mach 2. To say the MiGs were outclassed was a huge understatement.

@dieselboy610 10 ай бұрын

Heck yeah I can agree with that. My father was a F4 pilot deployed to Nam and Laos. He said he whooped so much butt over there he actually got borded lol. Cheers brother.

@RCAvhstape 10 ай бұрын

Eph Phours Phorever

@peterinns5136 10 ай бұрын

Eric Winkle had nothing but praise for the Phantom.

@robertkalinic335 10 ай бұрын

Seriously? Half is the video was spent on how phantoms weren't actually in disadvantage...it was sidewinder that made the difference.

@markwilliams2620 10 ай бұрын

@@robertkalinic335 Can't deliver the weapon without the platform.

@cliffalcorn2423 10 ай бұрын

Another outstanding documentary... And one of my favorite subjects, Middle East air wars.

@infoscholar5221 10 ай бұрын

I admire your strictly rational assessment, based on scrutinizing the facts. Excellent work. Let us consider this war and its aftermath, and as recent events sadly demonstrate...the end, is not yet.

@jonginder5494 10 ай бұрын

Dude your videos are fresh, interesting and great to listen to. Your approach is so good, combining an interest with an obvious understanding of how human and tech operations work and how to apply this to analyse these scenarios. I love it.

@ReneCordova-xz5nc Ай бұрын

I repaired the radar on the F-4E from 1973-1977 for the USAF. Ì loved the work and enjoying climbing all over the plane. 23:36

@NickThePilotUSA 10 ай бұрын

Hi thank you for the good video but I wanted to correct an inaccuracy in it. You mentioned F-4J carrying Aim-7F. Those missiles were indeed in testing at that time but not in actual service. They entered service in 1976. When the Vietnam evacuation was happening and F-14As were covering the evacuation they were carrying Aim-7E-4 which was a version of the E-2 for the tomcat. The J model phantoms would have been using Aim-7E/E-2 at the time of the Yom Kippur war. I think israel might have had those missiles too but not paired with a Pulse Doppler radar like the J. Also not sure if you mentioned it but slats weren’t fitted to the E model at that time the Agile eagle came later (along with the naval slats on the S model phantom which are not agile eagle)

@raymondyee2008 10 ай бұрын

It was clearly one of the missions in "Jane's IAF".

@tristanaycock7447 10 ай бұрын

I am a Big Fan of the IAF and enjoy watching everything I can on them, so Thank You very much for another great Video. Thanks Again!

@gaylacartwright9446 10 ай бұрын

Great Story and Video, Can Never get enough hearing about the Phantom!!!!

@Manbemanbe 10 ай бұрын

Really enjoying this series.

@richardpetervonrahden6393 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for a balanced but engaging presentation and a well-argued analysis.

@Jon.A.Scholt 10 ай бұрын

Heck yeah! Been waiting on this follow up. These videos are a great way to herald in the weekend!

@dlfendel2844 10 ай бұрын

Very well done. There is one more issue when comparing to Viet-Nam however that may be a factor: For much of the Viet-Nam conflict, pilots worked under semi-impossible rules of engagement about how far they could go, how far they could shoot into certain areas, and how far they were allowed to pursue the enemy. Throw in the SAM avoidance issues and it may account for the raw numbers re. air-to-air hits vs. misses.

@notapound 10 ай бұрын

Absolutely right. VPAF GCI was also a factor in Vietnam. Although the Egyptians and to a lesser extent the Syrians did work on their GCI technique, their Soviet advisors were pretty scathing about their abilities.

@brianrmc1963 10 ай бұрын

Your scholarship is as good as your storytelling, which are both fantastic. I really look forward to every video. I was initially surprised at all their missiles guiding, though the IAF could always be described as a boutique air force. They only train for the very specific circumstances they live in, while in the U.S. military we had to train for a wide variety of missions. It is very likely they kept very good care of their missiles. I am sure that the actual truth is somewhere in between, even if everyone thinks they are telling the truth. As we said in the Marine Corps, “never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.” 😝

@s.marcus3669 10 ай бұрын

You could NOT be more mistaken, Brian. The Israeli Air Force trains for everything imaginable-and as we've seen in Uganda and Iraq, DOES do everything. If the Japanese were to attack Israel, trust me, Israel would launch a preemptive attack and succeed. Remember, this is a civilization which has been around for six THOUSAND years and outlived all the great conquerors and despots of history.

@brianrmc1963 10 ай бұрын

Let me be more specific: They don’t deploy, and they don’t possess the logistics train necessary to do it. The IAF refuses to train with “allied” air forces because they may look bad. They don’t perform f-pole maneuvers after firing missiles. They don’t go into the vertical during ACM because it may visually highlight them. They don’t make their own aircraft. They take existing aircraft that we sell them and make them better. Quite rightly, they only train against the threat that circles them.

@s.marcus3669 10 ай бұрын

@@brianrmc1963 Dude, you are SO igorant it's not even funny. You should get out and read more trade journals other than your monthly Flying magazine. Israelis train all the time with foreigners, you just don't know about it. I wouldn't know about f-pole maneuvers but I guarantee that they know about it and have tried it at least once. This is the ISRAELI Air Force we're talking about, who regularly kick ass at Nellis. How do I know this? Met many USAF veterans who told me this first hand. You need to get out more and expand your horizons...

@JGCR59 10 ай бұрын

The video reminds me of the old books by Christopher Shores about air combat over the Desert and Malta and so on checking the accounts of both sides. Not one single dogfight ever happened according to the reports of one side. It is like witness reports of a car accident. Every single eyewitness will give a slightly different statement

@billy.g3597 10 ай бұрын

Speaking of sidewinder reliability, just 9 years later, the 9L model got a kill out of 80% of launches, during the Falklands conflict.

@teodorferseta8254 10 ай бұрын

The L and M were revolutionary improvements over earlier "versions" (honestly, most air forces would have just changed the alphanumeric designation).

@frankcessna7345 10 ай бұрын

Absolutely right on - The AIM-9L seeker was clearly superior to earlier AIM-9s. The seeker cooling enhancements on 9Ls made for very good lock on at greater ranges and the 9L seeker field of view was increased from 25 degrees to 45 degrees allowing for better off bore sight engagements. British Harriers made great use of the AIM-9L again Argentina A-4s and Mirage III. Best Regards.

@kc5402 9 ай бұрын

It wasn't just that the 9L was a better missile, the RAF pilots were better too.

@marktuffield6519 10 ай бұрын

Very interesting and a very well balanced analysis based on available information!

@DavidReed-sv9rb 9 ай бұрын

So I always believed each Phantom had scored four kills using 7 missiles and maybe one gun shot. That’s a 50% kill ratio to missiles expended. Seemed more believable to me

@sterlingsmith202 6 ай бұрын

Hearing the multiple possible stories is wonderful. The fog of war can really obscure your point of view. Loved your analysis because it seemed like you considered multiple factors and included the possibility of propaganda.

@VeeTaperTemplar Ай бұрын

Great channel, Really nice Narration

@amerigo88 10 ай бұрын

Military history dates back at least to The Odyssey and The Illiad. Even 1973 can be shrouded in the mists of myth.

@purcitron 4 ай бұрын

This is an amazingly well researched video!

@missfluffybuns7759 15 күн бұрын

The official IDF version of the event does not claim to know exactly how each of the plains was brought down. They do say that the Egyptian attack was well coordinated and well executed, with both runways damaged as well as the Israeli anti-air missile silo. 7 Egyptian plains were brought down, 6 Mig 17 and one Mig 21. One of the plains was brought down by the Israeli Navi anti-air ground fire from the nearby base, and another plane was brought down by Nachumi F-4 guns. To assume that the other 5 plains were brought down by sidewinders is less far fetch than you make it to be.

@simondan3828 10 ай бұрын

I don't know how credible is this attempt to appear balanced by ruling out that Israel is accurately describing its achievements. Seriously- I'm former IAF F-4E ground crew and I also want to know the truth. By the way, you've missed some of the evidence- someone on the beach with an 8mm movie camera have documented the downing of one more MIG-17 by an F-4E. The link is often shared in the comments of other videos about this incident.

@pastorrich7436 10 ай бұрын

A very well-deserved thumbs up! שלום

@thespiffyduck 10 ай бұрын

The timing of this video is amazing. It was released right when Hamas launched a surprise attack on Israel, in a similar fashion to the Yom Kippur War.

@Brandon5799 9 ай бұрын

Keep in mind the Israelis are excellent at reengineering. It wouldn’t surprise me if the sidewinders the Israelis used at the time were modified to fit their needs.

@nuclearumbrella5818 10 ай бұрын

I love seeing your videos, they are informative and seem to be very well researched. However, I think an outro screen would do much to increase the quality, I am surprised by the abrupt end every single time :).

@rchassereau2 10 ай бұрын

Same here

@captbart3185 10 ай бұрын

Well done video. One comment: the Soviet governments with their focus on central control and single role for pilots (even in multi role aircraft) has made it almost impossible for their pilots to perform coordinated missions with multiple aircraft. Still a large problem for Russia in Ukraine and the Chinese with Taiwan. Piecemeal attacks give huge advantages to defending forces.

@joeblow5037 8 ай бұрын

Was in a Marine F-4J sqaudron from 76-79 (VMFA-333) Having 'Nam behind us, with lessons learned, those things were a force to be reckoned with. And we didn't even have the Canon. Glad the pilots didn't listen to that stupid controller. and whichever side you believe......you can believe that the Egyptians turned tail because of only TWO Phantoms. That much is fact.

@AnimalMother207 10 ай бұрын

2:47 you made me pause to check if its real xD

@mrcoffee70 10 ай бұрын

Good analysis. Well done.

@amitnachman3840 10 ай бұрын

The video is well done and the conclusion is not unreasonable. I will say though the IAF is p. good at debriefing stuff and the IAF pilots at the time were extremely competitive. I find it hard to believe the kills were credited without gunsight evidence, as other pilots would not be happy with it.

@Gerhardium 10 ай бұрын

Yes its simply educated conjecture.

@goddepersonno3782 10 ай бұрын

I'd agree, but would that have made the official story any more/less truthful? Perhaps they were under orders to hold their silence on the truth, although this doesn't explain why no one's come out with the real story from the Israeli side

@maureencora1 9 ай бұрын

I Wish the History Channel Series "Dogfights" Did a Episode of Air Battle of Ophir.

@hughbarton5743 9 ай бұрын

Nice presentation. Thank you.

@shenmisheshou7002 10 ай бұрын

This is a testimony to fast thinking, bravery, skill, and an the luck of being is a truly excellent fighter, and remember this: A kill is a kill.

@TheAmazingCowpig 10 ай бұрын

I didn't realize that the Yom Kippur War basically started as an Ace Combat campaign, with a surprise attack on an air base by ground attack aircraft. That said, the circumstances and questions around this event remind me of when the war in Ukraine started, so I suppose myths and propaganda are just things lost to time and history.

@WargamingHistory Ай бұрын

Great summary, the over claim of kills is normal. If you apply the ww2 claim rate is less than 3

@FriedAudio 10 ай бұрын

Very timely video. Thank you.

@AndrewGivens 10 ай бұрын

Very good analysis; interpreting accounts of combat in terms of what was reported or claimed vs what likely really went down is always challenging, but you've gone about this in a very practical manner. For what it's worth, i have a similar problem with the Battle of Sluys during the Hundred Years War: An absolutely apocalyptic level of lopsided slaughter is recorded in the various accounts (no doubt essentially derived from a few or even one English source), to the point that it's claimed that a smaller fleet of sailing ships with longbowmen and armoured men-at-arms managed to totally destroy a two-or-three hundred strong force of similarly high-sided sailing ships. This force apparently brought about the deaths of over ten thousand fighting men in a single day of battle, with very few casualties to themselves - and this all happened in a crowded inlet with little in the way of room for tactical manoeuvre. To my mind, this has long seemed unlikely, because the variable factors involved in such a large action all needed to come together at each around or near a 100% level of efficiency, for an almost totally effective day's work by the attacking force. To say that very few battles in history ever result in such annihilation when difficult tactical factors are in play is an understatement. But many simply accept such things without further critical thought. A first-rate presentation.

@Diadema033 8 ай бұрын

Let's add that Israeli claimed about 100:1 kill ratio vs arabs in 1973, actually a lot better than their victory in 1967 (about 5:1).

@wcubbin 9 ай бұрын

Excellent balanced analysis

@noahname6695 9 ай бұрын

Amazing bravery. Amazing men and pilots.

@aBRUSHforCONFUCIUS 10 ай бұрын

I enjoy your analysis and your narration is excellent. Maybe you could do some videos on the India/Pakistan air combat.

@theodoremccoll3267 10 ай бұрын

The failure ratio. This assumes the F-4 carried 4 sidewinder the way the US F-4 s do in twin pods under the wings. Look close at the photo of the F-4 right side in the conclusion of the video. with the air crew milling about. The AIM -9 is hanging from a single pod below the starboard intake. This Isreali modification would allow six AIM -9s to be carried.

@wolumandreas1130 10 ай бұрын

Excellent

@ReviveHF 10 ай бұрын

It's the pilot not the plane, also the environment as well.

@ianboys1000 10 ай бұрын

Excellent presentation

@anthonyhayes1267 10 ай бұрын

This is some DCS shenanigans, except it happened

@stephensibert7719 10 ай бұрын

Shortcuts to video outline and footnotes: 0:00 (Title) Ofir Air Base 1400 hours October 6th 1973 Yom Kippur 4:54 (Note) The F-4E radar also lacked look down capability 5:01 (Note) Nachumi couldn't authorise loading CBUs as his missiion was intercept... 6:36 (Note)The arrows supposedly point to parked Mirages at Ophira 12:35 (Title) Analysis 13:52 (Note) I've put links to two interviews with Amir Nachumi in the show notes. They are both entertaining...but there are some differences between them... 14:00 (Title) The Case For 17:24 (Title) The Case Against 18:11 (Note) This dramatic photo shows Nachumi pursuing a MiG-17 near the Ra's Mohammed communications base (his third claim) 18:30 (Note) * The pilots fired seven Sidewinders in total 19:56 (Note) In fairness, he has managed to get EVEN lower here! 23:56 (Title) Conclusions Thank you for your excellent video! If you ever have the chance to update it, could you perhaps add animation to the maps? I get lost with the entire lines suddenly appearing on the maps. To me, it would be a little more clear if I could see a tiny little airplane moving and leaving a color line behind it with say, green for Egyptian and blue for Israeli. And for me, I'm not sure where the airbase itself is on the map. Maybe this would help. But thanks again! 8:03 Map 9:18 Map

@Wien1938 10 ай бұрын

The truth will lay in the Egyptian unit loss records and I BET those are closely guarded.

@enzoacorda 10 ай бұрын

When it comes to IDF books- I can personally vouch for Shlomo Aloni's books.

@patrickcloutier6801 10 ай бұрын

In fairness to the Egyptians, it may have been wiser to NOT have launched a second attack wave against Ofira Airbase - the Israelis were now alert and more capable of inflicting damage on the Egyptian air strike. If the Israeli claim of 7 Egyptian fighters downed in the first seconds of the war is true, then the Egyptians would likely have faced a prospect of another 7 or more aircraft losses, in the face of an alerted Israeli defense. Of the original 28 attacking aircraft, 50% or more may have ended up as losses, by sundown on 6 October 1973. So, better that the EAF did not follow up their attack with a 2nd wave.

@jonathanhudak2059 10 ай бұрын

Excellent series! Makes you wonder now about this famous event?

@dtrain1634 10 ай бұрын

Thank you. Good video

@aegeanphantom 10 ай бұрын

Another very interesting video and analysis, thank you. You should share an email address on your channel so that people may send you suggestions and maybe info or ideas for future videos.

@Allan_aka_RocKITEman 8 ай бұрын

At about 00:50 in this video: Does anyone know what those small _geodetic domes_ at the bottom of the image are?

@johnned4848 10 ай бұрын

Great video on a legendary air battle not well documented

@hermanmiller3708 10 ай бұрын

I have read or seen video to the effect that Israel make significent improvements to the sidewinders accuracy and performance. Another factor to consider is how much damage was inflicted on the air field. The fact that 28 aircraft did not render it unusable or severe limited in use infers that many were chased off or destroyed and lends credence to the 7-0 ration.

@ryhk3293 9 ай бұрын

Yeah, first kill, I thought, nice dice. Second, the second head-on aspect, I thought, wait, do those early burners do that? Third splash of the third Sidewinder, I started thinking to myself, get Rosencrantz and Guildenstern on the horn, because something's rotten in Denmark. No way three AIM-9 releases equals three splashdowns.

@larrydugan1441 10 ай бұрын

The wing loading of a MIG17 does allow for missile defeating bat turns. The Aim 9 success rate seems excessive.

@JGCR59 10 ай бұрын

What surprises me is how little use the Israelis made of Sparrows. While the USAF basically used it as their main missile in the later stages of the Vietnam war, most Israeli phantom air victories seem to be Sidewinder or gun

@MrGaryGG48 9 ай бұрын

That may well have been due to availability to the Israelis. As I remember (as accurate as those 50 year old memories might be...) much if not most, of the armament was supplied by the US. We were pretty busy at the time. My ship at that time was a rather busy Guided Missile Frigate, directing air traffic in and out of the Tonkin Gulf. We didn't hear about supply issues but that very well may have been a factor.

@Diadema033 8 ай бұрын

@@MrGaryGG48 nope, the Sparrow really did not work well in low level and short range engagements.

@ronb191 8 ай бұрын

This was a great recounting of what occurred. The only factor that was not included is the spiritual. The Bible says that God will bless those that bless Abraham's descendants and curse those who curse them. When the Lord is on your side, you will not lose. I have heard other people say that Israeli wars are not studied and taught by Americans is their successes were not achieved by tactics. What isn't admitted, is that the Lord defends Israel and does the impossible to insure victory for them. Read the Bible and trust in Jesus, there is more to life than making money and then dying.

@jaws666 10 ай бұрын

Awesome

@pierredecine1936 10 ай бұрын

I was born on Yom Kippur 1956

@MrBahjatt 10 ай бұрын

The israelis tended to rely on the cannons of the Mirage III/Nesher and F-4E when engaging, the AIM-9D and Shafir II would have been used to distract or cause pilots to lose energy avoiding them.

@casematecardinal 10 ай бұрын

No they would use them to end fights before they began. No reason not to. However they were always prepared for them to fail because in these early days they tended to do so a lot

@moler1964 10 ай бұрын

Thank you!!!!

@rossawood5075 9 ай бұрын

I am reminded of the one of cardinal rules of war, "the first casualty of war is the truth" Excellent analysis though! Jus sayin'

@danielhurst8863 10 ай бұрын

There is a World of difference in missile to hit ratio in dog fights vs a hit ratio on unsuspecting planes.

@OrderoftheWarlocks 10 ай бұрын

Do you use some sort of sound dampening in your recordings? I feel as if it is too aggressive and cuts out lots of your voice.

@ethanperks372 8 ай бұрын

After reading the comments I have an observation. And please, I am not an expert , not even close. I remember watching film of the development pf the early Talos/Terrier/Tartar SAM's and Sidewinder/Sparrow AAM's. Kill rates were quite high. I would expect so when the target drones were F6F Hellcats and B17's! These missiles had all sorts of problems in Vietnam. Some environmental and some due to the new tech. Israel 1973 had the benefit of many lessons learned in Vietnam. And considering "Proven" air combat instances from the War of Attrition and 1973 vs Egyptian and Russian pilots, Israel still had some incredible kill to loss rates. In the book, "The Complete Fighter Ace" x Mike Spick, Greenhill 1999, the above air battle is briefly discussed. The Kill/Loss ratio is explained as pilot/aircraft quality. Nahumi was an ace with 14 kills credited. Israel claimed 355 enemy aircraft in the Yom Kippur War. Israel claimed as of 1999 17 Aces. No Arab pilot has made ace. My point is that there was a huge gap in pilot quality. Egyptian/Syrian pilots were trained by Russians using Russian tactics. Israeli pilots were and are trained in Western air combat techniques. Now that Egypt flies Western planes using Western training, they might do better.

@sasha022 Ай бұрын

I bet that Egyptian pilots could have been so disoriented and unaware of what is going on that they just flew their aircrafts as drone targets on a firing exercise.

@Federalist2159 5 ай бұрын

So you're telling me there's a chance!!!

@kc5402 9 ай бұрын

Why does the thumbnail show the A-4 Skyhawk?

@ztuval 8 ай бұрын

Considering that the Egyptians admit to loosing 5 aircraft in this engagement (while claiming that 220 aircraft participated in this raid), I do believe the Israeli account of downing 7 aircraft

@Mute_Nostril_Agony 10 ай бұрын

Just realised that my recollection of events from the time (I was a teenager) are wrong. I hadn’t realised that the Vietnamese War was still going on during this short conflict

@thomasfx3190 10 ай бұрын

I don’t know, Israeli pilots were in combat essentially everyday for the last several years prior to the Yom Kippur war. They are known to be the best dogfighting pilots in the world. This upset their chances of 7 kills quite a bit.

@goddepersonno3782 10 ай бұрын

a 3-7 hit ratio is still really impressive at such low speed and altitude

@RailfanDownunder 10 ай бұрын

Superb

@goddepersonno3782 10 ай бұрын

the official story is arguably less exciting because of how reliable the missile launches were I imagine it would have been far more dramatic firing off each missile and seeing it miss its target, all the while having to remain aware of the scores of MiGs flying around the airspace. Even with all that fancy tech, it's incredibly difficult maintaining the battlefield context I suppose the real failure here was the lack of planning and communication between the Egyptian and Syrian air forces (and between their own squadrons). That was the real killer. Having better fighter cover from the MiG-21s would have made all the difference, and the outcome could have been very different. They also should have followed up with immediate reconnaissance of the battle's outcome. It would have been worth it even if you risked the aircraft

@freeholdtacticalmed 9 ай бұрын

‘A target-rich environment”

@1joshjosh1 10 ай бұрын

I have several pounds for this channel. !!

@GTX1123 10 ай бұрын

The Phantom's brute power in the hands of a capable pilot was more than a match for anything Egypt had in it's airforce. IAF pilots are renown for being some of the best in the world. The leading edge wing slats on the 4E allowed it to turn tighter as well which would be a critically important difference in performance given the situation the IAF pilots were thrown into.

@Diadema033 8 ай бұрын

There were no SLATS in those F-4Es.

@NielMalan 3 ай бұрын

Very well prepared video! In my ignorance I have to wonder if Sidewinder explosions were not converted to Sidewinder kills in the retellings? I can imagine that the pilots actually saw all the explosions mentioned in the narrative, but that only a few of them resulted in kills. Certain parts of the narrative are clearly hyperbolic: no Sidewinder has the capability to "blow [a MiG] apart".

@johnshepherd9676 10 ай бұрын

Fighter pilots don't lie, they just assume everything they shoot at they hit. Just look at claims versus later analysis for the Battle of Britain. Both sides thought shot down more aircraft than they really did. The truth is probably 3 or 4 downed aircraft. There are many examples of 2 v many fights that end up with two 2 winning. The many get in each other's way while the two can shooting at everything on the sky.

@edew9180 10 ай бұрын

I am on my phone, so it doesn't help, but I feel like the audio of this is pretty quiet. I'm having trouble hearing it with my phone in the same small room. Again, maybe it is just my phone, but I thought I'd mention it

@janwitts2688 10 ай бұрын

One cannon shell from a 17 and it could have been goodbye to an f4...

@RCAvhstape 10 ай бұрын

That photo at 16:57 is epic. The Phantom with its fangs out. "We have 2 Phantoms. You guys have 28 MiGs. Looks like you need to go back to Egypt and get some more MiGs."

@cateclism316 10 ай бұрын

When overwhelming numbers attack....plow ahead!

@ethanperks372 8 ай бұрын

Around 1975 "Aviation Week & Space Technology" published an Egyptian viewpoint of the 73 Air War. Israeli pilots are described as poorly trained and lacking fighting spirit. Egyptian pilots insisted that they were beating the IAF until US pilots in Israeli marked planes (F4/A4) turned the tide. They too claimed most Egyptian losses were to ground fire. Considering the IAF/Syrian kill to loss rate (82/0) I know who I believe. PS: I remember an article in a WW2 magazine using Japanese records vs the Flying Tigers in Burma. The Flying Tiger claims equaled more than than 100% of the Japanese aircraft in theater. Japanese records indicate losses of about 10%. I am working from memory as I no longer have these periodicals.

@notapound 8 ай бұрын

Hi. Thanks for the detailed comments - I appreciate it. Rather than attempt to answer here, I produced a video looking at the air-to-air statistics using a combination of US, Russian sources and, to the extent possible, data from the Arab states. The question of real kill rates is very tough in this theatre - probably harder than Korea (which is bad enough!). The video is called 'The Final Reckoning' - link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jcqdepuVrpPUaGQ.html

@ethanperks372 8 ай бұрын

@@notapound Just watched the video. Thankyou. I found it highly informative and could find no fault! I had forgotten that pilots flying Western (Israel) aircraft were more likely to survive than those flying Comblock planes. As you know the Shafrir was especially intended to KILL enemy aviators with it's larger warhead.

@adamwsaxe 8 ай бұрын

So how was the F-4 so widely used for air-to-ground if it lacked a look-down/shoot-down capability? Not that you *need* such a radar to drop a bomb on the ground (ask the Italians who hand-tossed a few out of their plane on Libyan tribesmen in 1911), but just a few months before the Yom Kippur War, American F-4s were bombing Vietnam. Were look-down/shoot-down radars retrofitted on some US (and later Israeli) F-4s?