Unknown in France 😀

I can relate.

Ha, I bought a P85 and have a model Y on order.. he has had not influence on me at all :)

Haha, no he hasn’t influenced any of us, buying my first Model S in 2014 after binge watching was purely coincidental.

I can't stop eating Thai food.

I keep telling my wife I am “on the move” and “hammering”

bought my MX 90D in 2016 after watching countless Bjorn's videos. Still, no influence on me 😅

You can already see it with some. Early Leafs are terrible. i3's not so bad. I think a lot of it depends on what it was designed to do in the first place.

Tesla takes a unique approach than other manufacturers, they give you 100% of the performance (charging, acceleration, etc) immediately, with no regard to how it effects the vehicle long term. All their figures are quoted at peak charge, brand new. Other manufactures over engineer other parts and nerf the performance so that it will keep the advertised charging speed / acceleration / etc for longer. It's just the nature of going flat out with everything versus being more traditional 'safe' approach and building buffers into everything.

@@omelvold Thing is thats not smart engineering or helping to move things forward - thats just gaming the system for easy marketing and now those of us who got the early cars are paying for that.

I've got a 2013 P85 and a 2016 Hyundai Ioniq. I also have a house at the Mediterranean, 800km from my home. It takes exactly the same time to get there with both cars, but the battery of the Tesla is three times bigger. The Ioniq has 200'000km on the clock with a high percentage of fast charging, the Tesla only 80'000km with a low percentage of fast charging, yet the Ioniq still performs exactly like new and also suffered much less battery degradation (almost none in fact). I love my P85 and I'll never sell it, but the Ioniq is a much more practical and much more sensible car. It's also better in most ways on long distance trips despite having less range, because it has better seats, smart cruise, auto steer, etc and uses considerably less electricity. However, I would buy a new Tesla in a heartbeat, if they were to make a somewhat sensible car.

Didn't expect to see You here! 😁

lmao, go catch some more cheaters for vids

@@popefrancis9756 rude :(

eyyy. I know you.

@@SniperSnake50BMG No I meant a stat modifier based on conditions recorded. Just to even out the times a bit.

Agreed, as an "old Tesla driver" !

Similar situation here and i fully agree. 900 km trip, 3 * 50kW charger: Late breakfast, lunch and afternoon tea, done. Never have to wait. Arrive relaxed and had a safe drive.

@@moestrei not if one's driving on the highway. E. G. When traveling in the summer, I drove >1200km in a day, in about 10 hours, with lots of stops and 1.5yo twins in a 8yo ICE vehicle that costs less than Tesla's battery pack. EVs are not there yet in replacing ICE if one can't have long trips in 10yo cars

@@ionbarari7202 With these conditions (distance /kids) many people would plan it over 2 days. With overnight charging easily done. I find it interesting how many people waste their life watching TV/gaming/social media and then complain about arriving an hour later. EVs are replacing ICE sooner than later as many countries have relevant legislation plus many manufacturers will just stop making ice. Most sold car in Europe in September 2021: Tesla Model 3. For most ICE owners its about getting your head around change. The price will normalize with time, right now its a high demand and little supply issue. I always had cars around $2000-$5000 but bought a Model S P85+ for $40.000 two years ago. Have not regretted a cent.

@@Xanthopteryx Time will tell. I'd say it goes quicker than anybody thinks because of the overall economics and driving pleasure. Also as a big battery on wheels the perfect complement to renewable energy. Im in an area of frequent blackouts and soaring energy prices. But im on off-grid solar for 22 years now: Still on the 1st battery, never had a failure and charging my Tesla (has done 312.000km) it. 30.000km / year incl. 850km trips. Easier, way cheaper, no-brainer. I calculated if all 21million vehicles in my country would be Model Ss doing 15.000km / year power generation would need to be increased by 12%. Doable.

Are you still driving it? How’s the battery doing?

It has nothing to do with that.

@@bjornnyland Oh I thought it was. When anything ages you have to treat it more carefully !

Same ridiculousness in BC with BC Hydro. They are hyping how they are going to double the amount of public Chargers in BC. No mention of speed, but almost certainly only 50kW since that is all they have currently installed...

See, that's the problem I have with electric cars. The newer Teslas Will probably behave like yours down the line

Same here!

But in 2 years, Optimus Prime will be as old as Millennium Falcon is today. And he will most likely still hit 140 kW.

@@bjornnyland let's have a race between Optimus and the Millennium Falcon! but first fix the wheel stagger on MF. Optimus was always more thirsty too

Most Model S 85 owners don't drive 1000km every week, it's true, but when they do, *unlike Bjorn* they don't: * stop every 100km or less * record/edit videos while waiting * don't use a passport * use ScanMyTesla * arrive with less than 1% SoC * ignore Tesla navigation charging time and SoC at arrival estimates * drive alone If Bjørn tried it as most people doing 1000km in these cars, traveling with their families, he would probably * drive at least 2hrs in a row, * tried his best to keep the family entertained and their minds away from the charging speed * drive within speed limits (+/- VAT) * kept everybody reassured that the SoC is enough to arrive to the destination (despite "drive below ..." warnings on the screen) Not only the 2019.16.1 update tanked the charging speed but it also messed up the SoC estimates. It would be interesting a challenge between different cars where the onboard gom/estimates would be followed religiously to compare how good they are. If you drive one of these older Tesla's, you must know the car and when to start making your own estimates. It makes it usable. Otherwise, they're not much more than amazing XXL size city cars.

I raise this point every time someone mentions X car with X hundred mile range needs even more range. But then if you don't need such a high range, why get a Tesla?

@@benholroyd5221 most time you don’t need a Tesla …. But You want a Tesla :) In my case my model 3 is my only car so I needed a car that can do all type of trip and situations but for many friends that look for a second car ad EV I recommend them « smaller&cheaper » cars with lower range .

Mine's also a 70. It's worse than this unfortunately. I also live with it, but any trip which requires more than 1 charging stop becomes a nightmare

At a guess I’d say like Bjorn, you’re one who follows your conditioning rather than your bodies signals, just a guess ! Numerous studies have shown that vegetarians and vegans are far healthier than the average person with less disease and maladies.

She flies all over the world, her carbon footprint is a million times worse than my lazy ass!

Not true. There're more recent sw updates. Check with your Service Center.

@@InternetDude duh how many car makers other than tesla even update their older cars at all? Just upgrading your navigation system with VW costs you like 1k these days.. It's insane. And one of the reasons the older Model S didn't see upgrades is likely that they have been remodeling the production thus they likely didn't work too much on the software when doing that, but idk.

@@LunnarisLP "what you pay, what you get" is norm with all car manufacturer.... for tesla, "pay so more, get not that much more". I think all costs including SW updates is included and promised in price tag, its not a cheap car buy the way to compare against.

Be prepared to make a trade in another 5 years. It will be same same but different.

Nope, it will most likely not happen with Model 3.

@@InternetDude Because the same will happen with any car manufacturer. It has nothing do do with manufacturers it is about battery limitations... If they dont do this something else will happen and the same people will complain again, why it wasnt sorted out the other way around.

@@bjornnyland yes, not the same specific battery issue. But, maybe something else fail with new tech, and resulting experience is same as long as tesla approach is the same.

@@balajipushpanathan7575 The new 4680 batteries will be million mile batteries because the warranty on the Tesla Semi truck will be for a million miles! These were very early models.

Oh my Lord 😢😢😢 I had no idea Tesla did this to older gens. Not bad compared to other EVs charging at 50-80kw but with a much smaller batt it's fine.

That is not true, it 100% depends on the manufacturer, take any mercedes 300CE from 1987 (34 year old). No problems at all with the frameless windows.

@@buddy1155 Well Mercedes from the 1980s were probably exceptions from the rule. Built like a tank! ;-) I have experience with several other makes and models, and they all have issues.

@@xiphias256 I agree that the 1980's Mercedes are probably the most durable cars build. And I agree that problems you summed up are indeed common at several cars. The problem is always bad design, there is nothing inherent wrong with frameless windows. We only disagree on the fact that it should be dropped or should be improved. If we dropped all technology that wasn't perfect on first try we would still be living in caves.

Weight.

Yep, its crap, for all the reasons you mentioned. Wish my car didnt have it.

According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years. It's more than average.

​@@avirbd Yes, a bit more than average. Which means it is still in the high part of the bell curve.

Double check your tire pressure. I’d get 15-20% higher conaumption at 41 psi than t 45+ psi. Massive difference.

@@Frygisk Have done it several times, but it makes no difference. Michelin Pilot Sport 4 has a different rubber compound, which makes them more sticky and thus has a worse rolling resistance. But on the plus side, they get an incredibly good grip on dry asphalt. With my Pirelli P Zero I was able to get down to just over 140Wh/km on 70-80km/h roads. Now I hardly get below 200Wh/km on the same roads.

@@eastcoastdashcamsweden2483 Similar tires dont have that difference, by far. Something else is amiss/different. I guarantee it.

They don't make the 85kW pack anymore, that's the biggest reason

@@mikaeloverby They could easily compensate the nerfed ones with 90kWh packs or with the existing 350V 85KWh pack. I have the feeling they dont care anymore about the early adopters.

All 85Kwh batteries of this chemistry are limited. You just got a refurbished battery of the same type, it will slow charge. The limitation is not the car. As soon as you install a 90Kwh battery in there (or maybe a completely unexistent new 85Kwh one, but no longer produced) the charging limit is no longer there.

If not nerfing, some other issue might showup and end up in similar situation 5 years after.

Quite certain they have gone through most of the baby problems now. The first cars sold was more like concept cars still under development.

@@balajipushpanathan7575 As with any other car. Look at Leafs or Bolts.

Brother of another mother, north thai food tasteless. Would love to se a video renting EV roadtrip down south. TB drooling proper food

164K miles... You got to imagine there are Model 3s with more miles then that on a batt pack... also will be interesting to see LFP with high mileage and how it does.

You're comparing apples with bananas ...

Good luck with other manufacturers being more open to compensate you if their cars suffer from degradation and loss of charging speeds.

Another distrust customer, congratulations Tesla.

A bit compensation is the free charching.

If you did not realize that you might be an early adopter when buying an early sample of the first mass produced car from a new car manufacturer, this might be on you. A car that was revolutionary on so many levels that the Citroen DS seems like a boring addition to the car world. OBVIOUSLY you would be a tester. This was all new technology, as in not rivaled by anyone ever. Additionally, this was a US company in Silicon Valley. Honestly I find the hint that you feel entitled to compensation ridiculous. With that said, I salute you for buying an early sample. Your sacrifice has, is, and will actually change the world for the better.

@@InternetDude I have done it myself, it is very easy to do. How hard is it to line up glass / metal with soft rubber? LMAO.

Comparing a 100k car vs a 30k car wasn't a fair comparison then and isn't one now... Unless you meant to compare degradation and change in charging speed for the new vs the old car.

@@BilldalSWE Yes, that's what I meant. And there weren't many EV models around back then..

No. Its not this reason. TB car is already out of warranty. Its 8 years or 160k kms. The car have probably driven more than 160k without nerf. Doesnt make sense to many 85. Cant be the reason.

Correct. Millennium Falcon has 8 year unlimited km battery and drivetrain warranty. What Balaji is talking about is Model 3 warranty which is completely different.

@@bjornnyland yes, as well for TMS and TMX, what i learnt is when tesla changed the warranty terms from unlimited to 240k kms, it immediatly applies for all year make. I think at first they put 160k limit and then changed to 260k. Whatever it maybe, it is not good to promise and sell a car with unlimited terms and suddenly broke the promise and put a km limit.

The battery nerf? That's because a small number of those old 85kW Packs started to burn, they found out it's because the chemistry can't handle the fairly optimistic charging speed with high cycle counts. That's why they reduced it with a firmware update. At least that's the story I know, not 100% sure.

Sounds plausible that a 5 year old battery pack would be speed capped. Tesla has always been pessimistic about superchargers. One solution is probably to “rotate the tyres” to even out the wear, to “rotate” the battery modules in the pack after 5 years, replacing cells in the modules that are unbalanced to refurbish the battery pack. However, you would also need parts that aren’t easy to obtain, working or new/refurb battery modules with refurbished, or new cells of a different chemistry/age that is modified to work with the same BMS parameters. It’s not like swapping the tyres, it’s swapping the “fuel tank”. And possibly the motors and axles. And the charging circuit / side panel for CCS charger support. Etc. extensive modifications, outside of warranty or safety. However, the problem is that failed super-charging, dropping back to 50kw or lower isn’t obvious to the driver unless they can access the BMS directly to look at the pack diagnostics which shows thermals and voltage levels that might have weak cells in a module, which brings down the whole module. And it’s not a good idea to allow that, because then people would want (and probably now armed with some justification) to replace the packs under warranty. Maybe there’s a way to rebalance the pack or assay the “problematic cells” that are reducing the DC float to a “safe” current to balance the aging cells more gradually. I have seen that some workshops have pulled the older packs apart to replace/repair the modules that have excess heat, by rebalancing and watching with thermal cameras for cells that heat up and refurbishing the module over time, sic. But it’s not something you could do with an insured/warranty car. Not yet anyway.

@@Toliman. so many "could be", "may be", this and that reasoning by experts and 3rd party workshops. but no proper communication from tesla to owners. I am not a lawyer, but, i can feel that this is not legally correct, cheating the customer.

​@@balajipushpanathan7575 the problem is that you're looking at chemistry reactions that occur when you charge, and discharge. The Battery in an EV, is not a homogenous "ocean" or single object, but a population of individual cells in a "city". There is no communication from Tesla, because there's no way to actually know if the battery pack is "bad" or "good" unless it has an observed problem. And that fault may not show up unless someone spends dozens of hours to pull the battery apart and check rigorously, or there's a catastrophic event, which also may not show up. If Tesla just sent out information to owners that they could pay to swap their old packs with 2022 Model S LFP and an upgrade for BMS, EPU/UI upgrades and charging, as an option... this would solve the wishy-washy silence from Tesla where they won't even talk about their problems, because it opens up very public liability for their past mistakes. The silence does create a problem, as it has also led to opportunities, i.e. Rich Rebuilds wouldn't be the powerhouse he is, without salvaging and savaging Tesla mercilessly. He's right to be aggrieved, but the argument that it should be up to Tesla, is supposing that Tesla can fix their own cars. Which sounds ridiculous, but it probably has a kernel of truth, they may not be able to fix their own cars, or offer upgrades without getting into legal problems of liability or misrepresentation, because some people will miss out if they offer an upgrade path. Much the same as you can't know if there's a potential criminal in an entire Country or City unless there's some indication, or, you just lock the entire city down to find a potential problem ... which is a terrible method that inverts safety for anxiety. And just like a city, when there's a problem, you don't empty the entire country and replace the people and homes. You just find the problem and fix it when you find the problem. The issue is that Tesla, being first in a lot of ways, can't pioneer laws or Customer Service. It's always been obnoxiously mediocre with CS and Repair, to a critical point where it has been a major weakness for their early adopters left with broken cars for months or years in some cases. This has improved, but it's a problem that they should be legally forced to face, especially the unacknowledged defects that they won't list, because it would slow down production lines of new cars, to focus on meeting obligations or expectations of service. The problem isn't the black and white "replace", it's the grey of "meets expected performance", because, there is no agreement or condition to benchmark what the battery should be like at the end of the warranty period. or beyond the warranty period in the case of some of the P85Ds and P90 series, and older. There is no customer law or lemon law that guarantors or protects consumers with a 10 year old car needing replacement or repair. The cardinal idea is that the Battery just exists, so it should work as if it were a 9v battery that you just slide in and out. And, for insurance, they would prefer to have the battery as a single unit in the event of lease terms, collision or defect, recall or repairs. If the Car Manufacturer's were forced to replace cell packs, by insurance concern or safety concern, we would be having a vastly different level of discussion. Instead, the problem exists where the degradation of one, many, all or any cell out of the Possible Billions inside Powerwalls or Tesla's is a factor that cannot be predicted, and it can't be insured or detected in advance either. The odds are fantastic, but it only takes that one fatigued cell or manufacturing defect to destroy a car, or a power station, or a garage, etc. If you treat the battery as if it's a 9V "single unit", then it seems insane not to replace it and deal with the refurbishment market. And, some people do deal with pack swaps when there's problems. Instead, just like a city, you can have trouble monitoring the behavior of thousands of people, especially if you only have 3 or 4 sensors, the "police" of that city. If there's thousands of small individual cells, and one AA sized cell (roughly) out of 1000 have a minor defect, or they shift or move over time due to environment or vibration, or there's an imbalance of charge potential, there's a safety system that has to kick in to prevent the module and also notify the car "somehow" that there's going to be a loss in capacity. How or when this happens, is not public, and that algorithm could change, and apparently has in the past decade. Conversely, Tesla isn't going to check this across a fleet of millions of cars unless they have to perform an incredibly detailed assay of their global fleet, or they have a method to survey and self-diagnose the modules. There are alternatives, but if you are in the position of having a liability like an aged battery pack on an aged car, it's going to be a problem that Tesla or the 3rd party markets are going to solve, with or without Tesla.

Nice, what has been the degradation over that time?

@@davidshipp623 Degradation was never a problem. I recently had it checked out and it still has almost 90% of its capacity despite almost 50% SuC ratio and many high speed runs on the German Autobahn as well as many trips in the cold such as a trip to the north cape at -20°C.

@@heinzruffieux5817 That’s cool, I’m only at 136,000KM in my 2016 P90DL and am running at between 1 and 2% degradation but was slightly worried it might jump at 160,000 upwards. Nice to know this might not be the case!

@@davidshipp623 90s to my best knowledge got a slightly different battery technology. However, they as well are expected to loose most of the capacity at the beginning and then stabilize. But 1-2% seems VERY low for 136kkm Are you sure about? Did you have it analyze? The on board system may trick you out, if you never run it to 0% to "calibrate" the BMS.

I think he did say that he had less efficient tires on or something

Solve an issue, another issue shows up, thats reality of new technology, however, the way tesla handled the 85 battery issue will as well similar for all new tesla products, thats a serious trust issue on the manufacturer-customer relstionship

That is the question. But they surely must have done a cost-benefit analysis with fancy graphs and everything, and conclude that they are coming out worse if old batteries are to rapidly lose capacity (with higher charging speed) vs. the other. It's hard to make a distinction between how much of it is based on the physical reality of batteries vs. PR, hence the trust issue. So it goes back to the basic message that Mr. Musk was telling from the start, that his mission is to accelerate sustainability. I'm nobody, but I'd say it's important to value the good intention, even when some realities creep in the picture and erode that trust. It's his word, basically. How much of this trust would be there if the corporation didn't have him, though...

@@szaboaz i have colleagues with other EV car, dont remember manufacturer. They as well get battery issues, but got battery packs upgraded to different model pack. Ideally, all 85 pack should have received a recall, or proper fix, not a cheap bandaid fix by nerfing charging. The fancy cost-beneift analysis that you are talking is irelevant for a customer point of view, my car is cripled, bottomline is trust and promise is lost.

@@balajipushpanathan7575 yep. They've already lost one new purchase from me so far. I have another car coming up for replacement and am not considering Tesla for this one either since this remains unresolved.

@@abraxastulammo9940 can you downgrade easily or is it a tricky thing? Thanks

No. Model 3 not at all yet. At some point it has to come but people who made 300.000km with their Model 3 still report normal behaviour across the board. The 75, 90 and 100kWh packs had a downgrade in charging speed but Tesla completely revoked it months ago. They all charge like new again afaik

Yes and no. It depends.

You’re lucky. I rarely get it to 120 kw, late 2018 mod s75D for me.

@@omarbabakarkhail my family Also have a model x 75d 2017 and they said the highest they have seen was 126kw. One kw more them mine🤣

And drive your Millenium Falcon over here!!!

(I just realised that multiplying Wh/km by 1000 gives the energy used, so still 17% more then)

This will most likely not happen with Model 3. Watch tomorrow's video.

Exactly, Bjørn is comparing a 8 year old car with 260,000 km with new cars... let's see in 8 years when we compare an E-Tron or EQC with a Model 3 or Newer S with 260,000km...

Better to recall and fix it instead of crippling a long range cars that are meant and designed and bought for road trips. Thats the point. They are not cheap cars to be putting a bandaid.

Sounds like a warranty replacement should be done for such a serious defect, not a software patch top hide the problem. Horrifically bad precedent that they're getting away with this.

Incorrect. Tesla makes great cars and they have outstanding tech and app. But in this case, they made the 85 kWh packs suck.

@@bjornnyland I get your point, but this is a 100k eur/usd car. You shouldnt have to put a beany in your window and you shouldnt have this kind of performance after this time. Its not acceptable for a 50k car let alone a 100k one

Do they un-nerf it if you buy a new battery, or do you just be happy it's not a Leaf and charge on AC?

@@RandyTWester happy that it’s a non-leaf leaking in air. Maybe I’d rather have a leaf in that case.

@@RandyTWester The OG LEAF is a great car.

It's only the 85 and 70kwh packs that they throttled. Get a 90 or 100 pack and your good to go Transamerica ;)

it still is

And the bat pumps are still running after 6 hours after a 100% long distance run. This car is nerfed to death. What a joke.

This car has been made much worse as an EV.

Netherlands is flat. Norway has hills.

There is always a much higher consumption right after supercharging for about 15 km on highway is my experience and then it falls to about 220-230 this time of year with winter tires.

@@jazdan223 I love to drive of my own, tested Ap 1 to 3 so far in model S, X and 3 I would not want to have one. Especially in Germany the highway needs your attention. I would not let take the AP take control of my car. It would be some rare situations if I would use the AP, but for me not worth the enhanced price. Only my opinion. Many of course think otherwise.

Not faster. Just as slow as before update 2019.16.1.