2021 C64 Repair-a-thon #3: "Would you look at that!"

Рет қаралды 51,597

Күн бұрын

Welcome to my 2021 edition C64 repair-a-thon! In this video, I work on and fix machine number 3 and 4 (of 5.) One wasn't that much of a fix, but another was and interesting one.
Part 1 / Machine #1: • 2021 C64 Repair-a-thon...
Part 2 / Machine #2: • 2021 C64 Repair-a-thon...
Part 3 / Machine #3 and 4: This part!
Part 4: Coming soon
0:00 Intro
0:56 Machine #3
15:18 Machine #4
34:40 Summary and outro
-- Video Links
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
#8-bit Dancy Party:
csdb.dk/release/?id=200763
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com/Products/EX-2-...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools.com/precision-c...
Link to desoldering video
Sven Petersen's Github (for the Diagnostic test harness files)
github.com/svenpetersen1965
C64 diagnostic ROMs (including Dead Test and regular diags)
blog.worldofjani.com/?p=164
- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino

Пікірлер: 223

@OzRetrocomp 3 жыл бұрын

It was nice of Commodore to leave you a clue about what was wrong with #4. :D

@SianaGearz 3 жыл бұрын

@nine I don't think it's for the repair necessarily. I think they knew the chips they had on hand were so bad, that the odds of just soldering one in and have it work would be a little low, so they had to try a few to begin with. Thus the sockets.

@stephenlord1539 3 жыл бұрын

the 8 bit dance party wouldn't be the same without Adrian's 'hand dancing'

@m_bagger 3 жыл бұрын

Factory sockets for chips that you don't see normally in sockets could be a result of the chip supply issue you mentioned. The factory needs to keep production flow steady with no line stoppages, so to work around parts shortages they just complete the soldering of boards with sockets in place of missing chips, and put the almost complete boards to the side. When the chips eventually show up, they can be installed in the sockets just by hand by pretty much any assembler to complete the boards, without needing to be soldered by someone who's skilled enough to do rework.

@eDoc2020 3 жыл бұрын

The soldered chips seem to be from late 1983 while the socketed ones are all from early 1984. This would support your theory.

@alisterbh Жыл бұрын

That's a really interesting theory and really makes sense. I wonder how many vehicles, PLC's and all sorts of other devices over the last 12-24 months may have socketed IC's. A silver lining for the recent chip shortage cloud.

@DeathMetalDerf 3 жыл бұрын

Any video with an 8-Bit Dance Party is a good one in my book!

@dbhansen 3 жыл бұрын

"Would you look at that!" would be perfect for ADB merch!

@jonmarler 3 жыл бұрын

Not gonna lie, I love seeing my name roll with the credits. Thanks for putting these out early for us, Adrian! Well done, as always. It is pretty amazing the level of production quality you produce these videos with in such a short period of time.

@RavenWolfRetroTech 3 жыл бұрын

I agree completely. How he puts out so many quality videos is beyond my comprehension.

@martinwashington3152 2 жыл бұрын

It's todays version of owning a private number plate on a vehicle ain't it :D

@brixiu5 Жыл бұрын

"Hey! Look at that! It's garbage" good sound bite.

@chadhartsees 3 жыл бұрын

Your hand gesticulating is always on point!

@chuckthetekkie 2 жыл бұрын

First step of troubleshooting: Make sure your diagnostic test equipment is functioning properly.

@ncot_tech 3 жыл бұрын

My memory is from 1979 too, I think I have a few stuck bits occasionally though ;-)

@greendryerlint 3 жыл бұрын

Mine is older than that. The bits all still work, but the access time isn't what it used to be and the whole service has degraded :)

@SenileOtaku 3 жыл бұрын

@@greendryerlint yep, 1979 would be a year after I graduated from high school.

@acfrazier 3 жыл бұрын

Oh man, I feel so spoiled on Patreon. 8 days early! So much Digital Basement content.

@GalileoAV 3 жыл бұрын

When #4 booted up after you swapped the multiplexers I burst out laughing. It doesn't get any easier than that, already socketed and everything.

@samuelattas3864 3 жыл бұрын

You know you love 8-bit Commodore stuff when you feel happy about that working SID just blaring out :o)

@markwrightrf 3 жыл бұрын

To the tune from Donkey Kong Arcade... "Would you look at that!?! Adrian's TWERKING!" ;-) Another great, enthusiastic, entertaining video.

@root42 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant explanations! Love the way you explained the PLA failure modes and how you determined that the PLA was fine. I am happy that I recently got a scope, too. I habe a 1541 to repair and it seems one of the logic chips is broken (ROM and CPU I already replaced with working ones)

@danilko1 3 жыл бұрын

We got a twofer, and a dance party. This was a most positive episode from the reparathon...

@lenny02112 3 жыл бұрын

I could watch you doing this for days

@gmirwin 3 жыл бұрын

7:16 the SID chip is sending Morse code 😁

@c0rnd0g_19 2 жыл бұрын

My first C64 (Spring '84) had all the problems you speak of. I was a kid at the time, but I remember for sure the SID being replaced at the repair shop, and I believe the other time it was the PLA. Ended up getting a C64C in '88, but can't remember the problem then.

@tommyovesen 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again Adrian. I just repaired one C64 today :) I can't get enough C64's

@mondo8bit 3 жыл бұрын

👍 Another cool and interesting one, thank you! Every Wednesday and Saturday it’s great to get your new videos! Tony from Italy

@batlin 3 жыл бұрын

30:00 there's something amazing about fixing that C64 with a couple of 42 year old chips...

@MrGtagangster 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome as always! Love to learn from you Adrian, and this is the best way. One day I will have a basement myself to repair all electronics!

@rdoetjes 3 жыл бұрын

Great episode and an 8 bit dance party is always the highlight!!!

@paleulfr4023 3 жыл бұрын

Congratulations on reaching 100,000 subscribers!

@nefaurora 3 жыл бұрын

Great job as always Adrian...! I love watching your C-64 Videos! :)

@tobiwonkanogy2975 3 жыл бұрын

Loving the repair videos . Great mini series for lovers and learners

@patriziopolcri995 3 жыл бұрын

Wooooo!! 100K subscribers!! Great achievement Adrian!! Cheers from Italy!!

@JenniferinIllinois 2 жыл бұрын

I'm loving these C64 repair videos and your excitement when things work! 😁

@mcy1122 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing another C64 repairathon. Fascinating! Great channel and content

@commodorebench2556 3 жыл бұрын

Great video as always! I like how you tested the PLA lines while using the dead test and will definitely be using that.

@devttyUSB0 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome fixes, Adrian!

@joe.tiziano 3 жыл бұрын

I love your surprise reaction to a fix "Ohhh Would you look at that bad multiplexers!" It's epic, keep up the awesome awesome work Adrian.

@brendonelton 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Can't wait for number 5!

@tenmillionvolts 3 жыл бұрын

100k subs. Yey. Well done. I don't think anyone would unsub your channel so it will only grow!

@kd5byb 3 жыл бұрын

Always love the Repair-a-Thons! :)

@donaldblakley6796 Жыл бұрын

Nice work . I love repairathons. Especially when one that I'm working on irritates me. Lol. Keeps me going to fix it. Thanks

@Controllerhead 3 жыл бұрын

It's been a wonderful treat watching Adrian repair Commodores the past few weeks: Jordan went back to basketball. Great content as always!

@suluturnip 3 жыл бұрын

I like how Adrian was like “I’ve got job stuff that might slow things down, so expect less vids”, then bang! repair-a-thon series!!!

@NozomuYume 3 жыл бұрын

Some advice: Remove the chip first before you clean off the thermal compound. If you smear it while it's in the machine the IPA can cause it to flow around and crust onto other parts, making it harder to clean. Especially if it gets into a socket.

@nathanielbest3541 3 жыл бұрын

On the topic of thermal compounds, while they are not suppose to be electrically conductive, I personally would not leave it going across the legs like that. I'm sure the VIC from the first machine in this video is bad (your testing is very thorough!! Always enjoy it :)) .. is there the possibility that maby it could be contributing to the output we say with it in the "ZIF C64"?

@ki5aok 3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanielbest3541 I would think there is some electrically conductive components in thermal paste, at least some of the higher quality ones...not enough to cause a direct short, but perhaps a resistive shunt. I could be off-base here, though.

@semifavorableuncircle6952 3 жыл бұрын

I would bet they installed the sockets because they were out of these ICs at the time the board was soldered, and just later stuck in chips once they had any. That way they can keep the assembly and wave soldering line running even with supply problems.

@50shadesofbeige88 2 жыл бұрын

8 bit dance party! We haven't had one of those in a while. 😄

@stevencarlson5422 3 жыл бұрын

you know what, now you've got me wanting to dance with you on the 8 bit dance party, caught myself doing it while you were too, i dont think ill ever get sick of you fixing up old commodore 64's thanks again adrian for you great content please keep the videos rolling in

@klarusboy 3 жыл бұрын

Half way through the video, i just noticed you hit 100k. Congrats!

@falken_gt4 3 жыл бұрын

Cardboard RF Shields - “IN THE BIN!”

@theannoyedmrfloyd3998 3 жыл бұрын

Commodore was notorious under Jack Tramiel for cutting corners. No surprise seeing their chips failing years later and few socketed chips on the boards. Every pinched penny added up! Conversely, I rarely have heard of Atari chips failing. They even used POKEY sound chips even in their coin op arcade games! 😉 The 2600 chips would fail but that thing got heavy use.

@jtveg 3 жыл бұрын

Great work. ✔️💯🏆 Thanks so much for sharing. 😉👌🏼

@stonent 3 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting if you had a small spreadsheet of the contents of your dead parts bin with different C64 chips and revisions and date codes. To see what the most failure prone of the parts were.

@jeremyaconnell 3 жыл бұрын

I love these repairathons!!!

@alanharkleroad4376 3 жыл бұрын

Watching this repair-a-thon makes me only hope it is just the PLA bad on my Rev A C64. On the other hand a repaired C64 requires an 8 bit dance party every time.

@danielmantione 3 жыл бұрын

If the PLA is from 1983 or 84, there is a good chance it is the PLA. If you have MT4264 on your board, it for sure needs new memory.

@madworm 3 жыл бұрын

Please we need Would you look at that compilation in our lives!

@wojiaobill 3 жыл бұрын

"so rare to find a working SID" Sounds about right for a guy named Sid from the 70's 😅

@stonent 3 жыл бұрын

Another idea for a diagnostic tool would be a small device that would blink if more than one chip select like was active. Or some kind of high impedance light that uses the CS as a ground to light up. Then you could watch chip select in real time.

@SpookyGeee 3 жыл бұрын

15:00 IMHO a dead SID chip requires a proper funeral, not this mass grave :)

@basvanharen2904 3 жыл бұрын

actualy she is in good company

@BreakingBrick 3 жыл бұрын

Wohoow, congrats to 100k subscribers!!

@Renville80 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting as always. I now have to wonder about the breadbox C64 I once had... it was from the same era as machines 3 and 4, paper shield and all. It was a Christmas gift in 1984. But by the time I sold it in the early 90s, it had a full set of new RAM (thanks to the factory power brick bricking my 64) and a new VIC-II (thanks to my kid sister pulling a game cartridge out with the power on... only one bit in one register was bad, but it made many games unplayable until I bought a new VIC-II chip in the late 1980s).

@deaniepops1 3 жыл бұрын

Great show.👍

@bitoxic 3 жыл бұрын

We are waving back with our Commodore 64s! 😀👋

@GarthBeagle 3 жыл бұрын

We got an 8-bit dance party! #8bitdanceparty

@bozimmerman 3 жыл бұрын

It warms my heart that each hand has the other to dance with at the party. :)

@chuckherndon3251 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome that they're back up, other than the missing SID and VIC in the first one. I WISH I got MOS Logic chips in sockets like that more often than I do, which is hardly ever. I just replace those with new TI parts whenever I see them, as I resell them and I can't trust the MOS chips if working today will work tomorrow.

@iamdarkyoshi 3 жыл бұрын

Congrats dude! Hopefully the SID stays working, both of mine had the same filter die after a couple days of use. Ended up just getting some FPGASIDs And before anyone asks, PSU has been rebuilt and SID chips were well heatsunk with big chipset heatsinks

@johnsonlam 3 жыл бұрын

Adrian saved lot of C64! Satisfaction.

@Bwyan 3 жыл бұрын

I might be late, but congratulations on 100K!

@TheAnkMan 3 жыл бұрын

"Good bye horrible paper RF shield!" *clank* In other news: "There are several police reports of unexplainable openings and closings of automatic garage doors in the a Portland neighborhood, which especially frequent happen on (mail call) Wednesdays".

@Monty_McDonnell 3 жыл бұрын

Now i know, why i love your videos so much :) my year of birth was 1974 :D Keep on doing such cool stuff! Greatings from germany.

@UpLateGeek 3 жыл бұрын

Wow, so many repaired C64s! You must have piles of them all over the place! 😁

@brianfix4404 3 жыл бұрын

Had a moment of panic with my tablet. There is a bit of wire on the bench that made me think I had a cracked or scratched screen!

@senilyDeluxe 3 жыл бұрын

Don't socket the SID. They're really sensitive. At least wait until it's dead. My first SID removal was done by my ham-fisted younger self with a crappy soldering gun and the SID was almost dead (some waveforms on some voices still worked). The second time I tried removing a SID I was being careful and using a solder sucker. The SID worked, but the filters were bad. Sucks on the more awesome tunes. The third time, I was extra careful and even took time after each pin to allow the chip to cool down. Still blew the filters.

@TheFurriestOne 2 жыл бұрын

I'm thinking that the uncommonly socketed-from-the-factory chips are from when a board failed it's first run through the production line and it was reworked at the factory until it was functional, then it was finally sold. Whatever the case, convenient fix!

@davefulton5070 3 жыл бұрын

You lost me at dance party. ;-) Nice work.

@doktor6495 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Adrian! Very nice episode once again! Nice to know that you are also a 1975 child like me! 😉 Stay healthy, greetings Doc64!

@proCaylak 3 жыл бұрын

1983 was the year of a certain crash in north america. that makes a lot of sense now!

@KasranFox Жыл бұрын

my online handle is Kasran so the mention of the "CAS RAM" line startled me

@quertize 3 жыл бұрын

Lighter fluid gets thermal compound off easily. Just clean residue with IPA

@spartonberry 3 жыл бұрын

"you know it's an NTSC unit because it has a FCC sticker on it" With that comment, I can only think of my GameCube Game Boy Player. Add-on for which the one I bought is orange, which I'm almost positive was a Japanese-exclusive color yet has an FCC sticker on it which would not apply to that market. :D

@cheapasstech 3 жыл бұрын

This definitely looks like someone used a busted wedge psu on these C64’s

@joshhiner729 3 жыл бұрын

Kind of what I was thinking. Lots of trauma to multiple chips. It would be... rare? For multiple chips to just fail at the same time. You’d think one chip would fail then it would get shelved.

@MarinoArribas 3 жыл бұрын

congrats from spain for the 100.000

@HifiCentret Жыл бұрын

Seeing this a couple of years later.. I do agree that the VIC is still an issue as Kawari isn't that available and still expensive so mostly for uber nerds building new systems. But the SID while sure it would be nicer to have the original there's always the goto ARMSID which even back when this video was made is decent and fair priced and it supports mouse and paddles unlike lower priced alternatives. Now there's even a few more replacements including FPGA and open source intivaties which although lacks ready made PCBs for the masses to become real alternatives.

@julias-shed 3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if they fitted sockets on the production line when they were short of chips so they could be added later?.....

@Berend70 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Adrian... i hope you have material to make it till part #50 at least 😬. I like them a lot.

@AveragePootis 3 жыл бұрын

Thermal compound is conductive and you had it on the Vic's pins

@toyotaae86trueno Жыл бұрын

Wait an acually working PLA ??? Bruh so rare.

@Androx74 3 жыл бұрын

interesting video has always, but maybe is a stupid question you said that two multiplexor are bad! it can't be possible that only one of the two was broken you had test all two chips off camera ? looking forward for the next video :) greetings from italy

@commodorebench2556 3 жыл бұрын

its possible only one is bad, but being MOS branded chips its better just to get rid of both.

@Pedro8k 3 жыл бұрын

Looks to me like a factory repair or qc failure they did get some of the line that needed for some reason components replacing and they used anything that worked they had

@Dukefazon 3 жыл бұрын

If you are not afraid to use your zif64 VIC2 chip in an unknown machine you could take another socket and stack it so it's higher and the heat sink doesn't bump into that metal cage or whatever that's around the VIC2.

@MarcoHandleidingManuel 3 жыл бұрын

or change the heatsink. to more slim fit to the VIC-II

@Julien987 3 жыл бұрын

We all came here for the classic "Would you look at that! It's working!".

@mapesdhs597 3 жыл бұрын

Definitely an idea for merch. 8)

@ETA555 Жыл бұрын

You should make a T-shirt when you throw away the RF shields 👍

@joshhiner729 3 жыл бұрын

I think you have the last functional MOS PLA. Wow. Those PLA’s (as you know) degrade over time. Amazing its still functional. Great video as usual.

@danielmantione 3 жыл бұрын

Not really, MOS PLAs from 1985 onwards are reliable, and don't get as hot as the early ones. There are quite a bit of machines with those. You just don't see those machines appear in videos because they don't break as often.

@joshhiner729 3 жыл бұрын

@@danielmantione Ahh you mean the newer ones in the C64C wedge model? Yeah those were solid. Maybe there was a breadbin 85 model with solid ones I guess Ive never seen/experienced an 85 bread bin c64. All mine are 84 and prior.

@danielmantione 3 жыл бұрын

@@joshhiner729 The C64Cs are tanks; near indestructible, but they were only introduced in 1986. I was talking about breadbins that are reliable from 1985 onwards. Lots of breadbins were produced in 85 and 86 and even after the C64C was introduced the breadbin was still being made in smaller quantities. If you do an image search for "assy 250466" on Google you will find photo's of some later breadbins and you can look at the datecodes of their PLAs.

@joshhiner729 3 жыл бұрын

Wow ok good to know. Did not know they continued the breadbins after the C64C. Ill definitely look into that thanks. Id like a later breadbin.

@danielmantione 3 жыл бұрын

@@joshhiner729 If it is just about the breadbin case, look for an Aldi C64 or C64G (those were the final breadbins). They have the short boards though. Regular breadbins with long boards from after the C64C introduction are rare, but do exist. Some early C64Cs also have the assy 250466 long board inside.

@oldofftime 3 жыл бұрын

Punishing them BAD chips! Hallelujah!

@mikeriv9229 3 жыл бұрын

23:54 probably the first time I've *actually* heard someone pronounce char as care

@SteveGuidi 3 жыл бұрын

Not uncommon for Commodore to mix and match IC manufacturers; probably to save costs! My store-bought C16 had an assortment of MOS, TI, Fairchild, and Signetics 74xx series logic chips -- (they're all TI now).

@minombredepila1580 3 жыл бұрын

Adrian, you really have to start thinking about a new dead parts container. No more room there :-)))

@markae0 3 жыл бұрын

Edit 20:09 fixed. The white heat sink compound on the VIC chip R8, it spreads onto the pins. Could it be shorting out the pins/ or altering incoming signals due to some conductivity? Or the opposite, could it cause the pins not to make a good connection to the test socket?

@spacewolfjr 3 жыл бұрын

Adrian I'm worried about your lime intake. I believe living so close to the coast has turned you into a pirate.

@daleross5500 3 жыл бұрын

Make a lip around your work space, lay out the dead chips in a pattern and cover with epoxy. New cool work space.

@OscarSommerbo 3 жыл бұрын

Again with your minipro, Adrian you can test LS TTL chips, you might need a software update to do so. But testing LS chips seems incredibly useful.

@MarcoHandleidingManuel 3 жыл бұрын

Very usefull. if i use any i will test them first

@brianv2871 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he's used his minipro to test LS chips in previous videos.. I think in the case of this specific one, there wasn't really a point. He had spare versions of those specific chips. I'm not sure both of those were bad and maybe it would have been good to run it through the tester just for completeness, but he probably didn't want to use those MOS chips even if one of them was still good since it's a matter of time.