29) The City on the Edge of Forever

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Enterprise Incidents with Scott & Steve

2 жыл бұрын

After an accidental drug overdose induces Dr. McCoy into a wild frenzy, he flees the Enterprise to the desolate planet below, where he jumps through an ancient time portal and alters the course of Earth's history. In order to prevent the Federation from being erased from existence, Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock follow the good doctor back in time to Depression-era New York City, where Kirk soon falls in love with a kind-hearted social worker whose very existence holds the key to restoring Earth's proper timeline. If there ever was a "Star Trek" episode that truly qualifies as being the very best of them all, it's "The City on the Edge of Forever." Written by Harlan Ellison (with a big assist from just about every major writer and producer who worked on "Star Trek" at the time), "City" is an epic triumph on every level, and the palpable chemistry between William Shatner and guest star Joan Collins is as good as it gets. No matter how many times you've seen "The City on the Edge of Forever," it still packs a powerful emotional punch, making it not only "Star Trek's" finest hour, but also one of the greatest episodes of dramatic television ever produced.
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Пікірлер: 48

@Vulcanerd 2 жыл бұрын

Mantz love the Trek photo novels!

@joec1576 Жыл бұрын

Recently have discovered your reviews of these classic episodes and loving every one of them. Heard your reference to the 40 Acres Desilu Backlot in the "Miri" review. I've read a history of this long gone backlot. There is a picture of Don Knotts in costume as Barney, looking up the street in an exterior scene being filmed for the Andy Griffith Show. At the same time, this episode of Star Trek was filming as well. In the picture, in the distance is a building with a sign identifying Edith Keeler's Mission. So many other shows filmed exteriors there as well. Gomer Pyle, Hogan's Heroes, My Three Sons. Such history.

@christheghostwriter Жыл бұрын

Just watched it again tonight. What an amazing episode

@Edward_T_Martin 2 жыл бұрын

Guys, great show! Two comments so far (I’m at 30:56): 1) Kirk and Spock don’t do a great job of containing McCoy on the bridge after the accident because they didn’t know what to expect from him, and the Cordrazine no doubt gave him steroid / PCP-type super-human strength and speed. 2) I always thought that Kyle was wearing a phaser because there was a Red Alert manhunt going on, and he is manning the room by himself. After getting knocked out by Khan, he’s not about to get duped again. And then… Thanks for this great work of passion, this is actually my second time listening to this episode of EI. Probably not my last.

@anthonyreeve7057 2 жыл бұрын

An amazing show great podcast, love all of these and keep listening to them over and over again Great work Shatner is on top of his game in this one

@stevemorris781 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Anthony

@melenatorr 2 жыл бұрын

I agree with that last moment, with Kirk thinking there might be another way: Suppose, for example, Edith is saved. She is now in the presence of three people who can convince her of where they came from and what they've discovered. There is now a third alternative: Edith comprehends the danger of a peace movement and the necessity of fighting Hitler - especially when they would explain the magnitude of the Holocaust. So Edith does not initiate or participate in a peace movement. She could: a) take part in something like the Marshal Plan after the war; or b) come with the trio back to the Portal. If she's supposed to die in the past, then coming into the future won't have an impact on her traveling forward. I could see Kirk (and possibly Spock) considering possible alternatives.

@stevemorris781 2 жыл бұрын

I think this is a great point and one I never considered. Someone else suggested, "Why don't thy just bring Edith back to the future with them".

@eliezerrodriguez5863 Жыл бұрын

I always thought Edith should had been the lady in the nexus (from generations) when kirk was in it because it would have made sense because he truly loved her.

@enterpriseincidents Жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing.

@trekkiedave7910 2 жыл бұрын

Best Star Trek episode EVER! The scale and scope of this episode is classic Trek at its best - it’s never gotten better than this in my opinion - none of the Star Trek copies that came aft ever did it this good… In my opinion I never get bored by this episode - I’m pulling every time!

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@trekkiedave7910 2 жыл бұрын

@@enterpriseincidents I started a KZfaq channel and completed a Top 10 TOS video (Episode 3) a couple of weeks ago and yes, this was my number one TOS episode - how could it not be, right? It’s the definitive TOS episode!

@Vulcanerd 2 жыл бұрын

I am positive I've read the book Scott mentions at the end of the video/podcast! About the original teleplay with a 90 page, vitriol-laden screed. I even recall it being the first 120 pages (of what I still think is about a 180-ish page book?). It's what really soured me on Ellison to quite a degree that, all these years later, I still have more than a bit of bitterness at him. It colored and tainted everything else that I tend to think of Ellison.

@GonzoRoss 2 жыл бұрын

What an episode. Even when I was a youngster I liked this one as much as I liked the more action-oriented ones. It always seemed to me that Kirk 'outs' himself and Spock when he shows Edith the star in Orion's belt from where the poet/author hailed...and she just runs with it. Interesting. Another excellent podcast.

@lspingles7350 Жыл бұрын

I agree. Kirk does speak to Edith about the future.

@lspingles7350 Жыл бұрын

Another amazing episode. I confess I had skipped this to save it for when I was having a not great day as I knew listening would be guaranteed to brighten my day. You succeeded. As usual, you gave me something new to think about. In particular, the observation about how Kirk told Edith twice to stay on the other side of the road. I had never considered that he was still trying to escape the 'no-win scenario' and thought it was just instinct, like catching her when she stumbled on the stairs, but I admit he was quite forceful in his instructions. Crazy thing is that although a few years ago I wrote a fan fiction in which Kirk and Spock discuss other alternatives (as there are ALWAYS alternatives), speculating on whether they could have just trusted her with the truth (they were from the future and she must delay spearheading the peace movement as it will have negative consequences), I never actually thought in that moment Kirk was hatching a plan. In my head, Spock would feel guilty that he had not presented an alternative to his friend. Ultimately, I don't think any plan could work as the butterfly effect of all those changed lives would definitely change the future, but interesting to think about whether Kirk was ready to gamble on a plan and what it would be.

@enterpriseincidents Жыл бұрын

glad we lived up to expectations. and I like your analyses.

@trekkiedave7910 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Scott,I just wanted to slightly push back on a comment you made about Harlan Ellison… You just said you have no reason to question Ellison’s account of his conversation wIth Shatner ??? I’ve also followed this ‘contentious conflict for decades - it’s complicated - but… Ellison had a history of this stuff - he had a similar dispute with James Cameron and ‘The Terminator’ script 30 years later I have absolutely no doubt that once Ellison learned that Shatner visited him not out of empathy for his situation but an attempt to manipulate him into accepting Roddenberry’s script changes - I have no doubt that Ellison would attempt to knee cap Shatner and discredit Shatner’s account Everything I have read about Ellison through the years is that if he felt he Was being disrespected he would retaliate like a privileged little troll So in my opinion, Shatner’s account makes more sense - does ANYONE really believe Shatner did a unscheduled midnight visit to Ellison’s house To discuss line count???

@jeffjob9708 2 жыл бұрын

It is so reassuring to hear that I was not alone in tape recording Star Trek episodes - this being the one that I listened to the most. Just listening to audio is amazing - from the sounds on the planet surface to the the dialogue to the music score. The ending of Act One with Kirk looking up and the camera panning up to the stars reminds me of the original Twilight Zone episode end shot. Also, the last shot of this episode that remains on the Guardian and not a shot of the Enterprise flying away was just a perfect way to end the episode. I’ve always wondered about the line “NO JIM!” just before Edith is killed. It has always sounded like 2 voices to me (Spock and McCoy?) which doesn’t make any sense story wise. I’ve always wondered if it was a mistake that never got corrected or an echo that was added to emphasize the line. Thank you so much for your interesting, long and passionate discussion! This episode deserves its reputation as THE best Star Trek episode ever made.

@TMcD3 Жыл бұрын

There is a inside joke in this episode. Before McCoy appears you see a carriage named “Widin Dairy Farm”. This referred to Benard A. Widin who was the Production Supervisor during the 1st Season of the show.

@enterpriseincidents Жыл бұрын

good oen.

@dennismason3740 Жыл бұрын

Shatner crossed his open eyes when he kissed Nichelle (sp?) in a famous scene and, to Ms. Nichol's credit, she kept her cool.

@PikeBishop65 2 жыл бұрын

I just love the small scenes that make this episode shine. Kirk coming back to the room with the groceries is just such a wonderful scene. Two men, having to live centuries in the past and adapting. I love the "Mr. Spock, I have some assorted vegetables for you, baloney and a hard roll for myself" as he sets the grocery bag down. I believe this is the first hint that Spock is a vegetarian. I could be wrong. I also agree with the Spock and Kirk as room mates, practically a married couple in this scene.

@robertdiethrich6775 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting historical note that just hit me: This takes place in 1930, that is way to early for being the depths of "The Great Depression." The Crash of 29 did not really trigger the Depression. In fact the market had regained 90% of its value by Springn 1930. It wasn't until the banks started to fail in 1931 that things got that bad.

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

Great Point.

@michaelhall2709 6 ай бұрын

There are other anachronisms in the televised version as well. Clark Gable had not yet achieved stardom in 1930, and the Guy Lombardo version of “Goodnight, Sweetheart” played in the episode was not released until 1931.

@Scorpio2074 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks to Robert Meyer Burnett I binged your series at work today. Great stuff! I remember reading the comic based on the original script to this episode. It was ... okay. Miles from the greatness that is the aired episode. The comic had this one badass moment for Janice Rand where she is told that she has to make a last stand (and will probably die) and she just goes "Understood" with a stern look on her face. But, like you said, the show did it way better. Anyways, keep on doing, you have earned a new subscriber today!

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much and welcome aboard.

@woof3598 2 жыл бұрын

I have Harlan's book sitting here, after reading his script I think the TV one was better over all butr could have been better with addtions from Ellison, I do miss some of Harlan's KZfaq videos

@kerryrwalton7791 2 жыл бұрын

The FSNP was used more than twice in For Whom Gods Destroy. Great episode! If I could film a Star Trek episode I would film the original Ellison script. With today's tec it would be incredible!

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

Good Catch

@jamesjazzjr.5820 2 жыл бұрын

Good podcast as always, but I have a theory that B or B+ art leads to more uninhibited discussion. Favorite so far is the extreme tangents you went on with RMB for Taste of Armageddon. Also, really dig it when Steve starts chewing on recurring themes. And if you are going to do the rest of the movies, you can't leave out Rocha and you can't leave out Galaxy Quest.

@CaptChrispy 2 жыл бұрын

1:05:00 I thought you were going to point out that them almost getting hit by a car was foreshadowing.

@CaptChrispy 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe Rodent disappearing made Clark Gable become much more famous!

@CaptChrispy 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder at the idea that Spock says he needs equipment for his 'hobby', would the word 'hobby' occur to Spock so easily?

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

I be Spock has hobbies. Science hobbies, math hobbies, etc.

@Vulcanerd 2 жыл бұрын

I'm waiting for Mantz to show up with a tattoo of a Kirk face on the small of his back with the text, "WWKD" under it 🤣

@dennismason3740 Жыл бұрын

I get every Beatles clue, I know the answers yet here i sit, typing.

@michaelhall2709 6 ай бұрын

Edith’s initial sermon to the members of her flock is, to my way of thinking, so on-the-nose as to be embarrassing, one of a number of notable flaws in a nevertheless wonderful episode. As a comparison, here’s the speech in Ellison’s original draft: “Shadow and reality, my friends. That’s the secret of getting through these hard times. Know what’s real, and what only seems to be. Hunger and cold are real, but sadness is not. And it’s the sadness that will kill you, that will ruin you. We all go to bed a little hungry each night, but there is peace to be found in having gotten through another day, and hurt no one in doing it.” So much better than the Wonders of the Future (tm) speech as rewritten by Gene Roddenberry. And for all the other changes made to Ellison’s script that have been justified over the decades in the name of consistent characterization or just keeping the show within budget, the truth is that there was no reason in this case to change Ellison’s poetic dialogue at all. It was just change for its own sake, which rarely ends well.

@eddieraines2844 9 ай бұрын

To me that episode was the best too. I hated that she had t die to set things right but if it didn't need to happen. Then that episode wouldn't have the same meaning. Joan Collins was great in that part.

@esecallum 2 жыл бұрын

why do Incidents episodes appear on sunday then disappear the next day. Happened with devil in the dark also.

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

It's a copyright issue. KZfaq sees that we are using copyrighted material and flags the episode. Then we dispute the claim and (at least so far) The remove the block. Hopefully, they will realize that we are actually bringing fans to the show rather than taking anything away.

@esecallum 2 жыл бұрын

@@enterpriseincidents Thanks I thought it might be them...

@christopherallen9580 2 жыл бұрын

Why did Edith Keeler have an English accent? She was an American in New York. Could Joan Collins not "do" an American accent?

@enterpriseincidents 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe she’s an immigrant.

@dennismason3740 2 жыл бұрын

Smothers Brothers rocks. Literally. What the heck is side B of Good Vibrations? I went to school one mile away from the Wilson home from 1958 - 1960, when Brian was teaching harmonies to Al and Mike and Carl in the garage, away from the old man. The B side, by the way, is mediocre for the Boys. I won't even tell you, it's that boring.