I just could not say; "Im an infernalist" with a smile on my face!

Here are a couple of verses to look into for universal reconciliation. Genesis 12:3 --- All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham. Genesis 22:18 --- All nations on earth will be blessed through Abraham’s offspring. Psalms 22:27 --- All the ends of the earth and all the families of the nations will acknowledge God. Psalms 65:2 --- All men will come to God. Psalms 86:9 --- All nations will worship and glorify God. Psalms 103:8-9 --- God is compassionate, will not always accuse and will not be angry forever. Psalms 145:9-10 --- The Lord has compassion on all His creation and all He has made will praise Him. Psalms 145:13 --- The Lord loves all His creation. Psalms 145:14 --- The Lord upholds all who fall. Isaiah 25:6-8 --- God will prepare a feast for all people, He will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers up all nations. He will eliminate death, wipe away the tears from all faces and remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. Isaiah 45:22-23 --- God has sworn an oath that every knee will bow before Him and every tongue will swear by Him. Isaiah 49:6 --- God’s salvation will be brought to the ends of the earth. Isaiah 54:8 --- Although God will hide His face in a surge of anger, He will also have compassion with everlasting kindness. Isaiah 57:16-18 --- God’s anger is not permanent. Although He punishes man, He will heal, guide and restore comfort to him. Jeremiah 31:33-34 --- All men will know God, from the greatest to the least. Lamentations 3:31-33 --- The Lord does not cast off forever. Although He brings grief, he will also be compassionate. Ezekiel 18:23 --- God does not take any pleasure in the death of the wicked. Rather, He is pleased when they return from their ways and live. Micah 7:18 --- God does not stay angry forever. Matthew 18:13 --- Like the man who owes a hundred sheep and is not willing to lose even one, God is not willing that any one be lost. Luke 2:10 --- The birth of Jesus is good news for all the people. Luke 3: 5, 6 --- John the Baptist quotes Isaiah’s words that all mankind will see God’s salvation. John 1:29 --- Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. John 3:35 --- God sent Jesus to save the world. John 4:42 --- God has committed all things to Christ. John 5:25 --- Even the dead will hear the sound of Christ and all who hear will live. John 6:37 --- Everything that God has given to Christ will come to him. John 12:32 --- When Jesus is lifted up from the earth, he will draw all men to himself. John 12:47 --- Jesus came to save the world. John 17:2 --- God granted Christ authority over all people so that Christ may give eternal life to all that God has given him. Acts 3:20-21 --- Jesus must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything. Romans 3:3-4 --- The unbelief of some will not nullify God’s faithfulness. Romans 5:18 --- The act of obedience of one man (Jesus) will bring life for all men. Romans 8:19-21 --- Creation itself will be liberated and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Romans 8:38-39 --- Nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ. Romans 11:32 --- God made all people imprisoned by disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 --- All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all his enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all. 2 Corinthians 5:15 --- Christ died for all. 2 Corinthians 5:19 --- Through Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself. Ephesians 1:11 --- God will bring all things under heaven and on earth under Christ. Ephesians 4:10 --- Christ ascended higher then all the heavens to fill the whole universe. Philippians 2:9-11 --- Every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord (In 1 Corinthians 12:3, Paul writes that no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit) Colossians 1: 19-20 --- God was pleased to reconcile to Himself, all things on earth and in heaven through the blood of Christ. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 --- God wants all men to be saved and to know the truth. Can God’s desire be thwarted? 1 Timothy 4:10 --- God is the Saviour of all men, especially (not exclusively) those who believe. Titus 2:11-12 --- God’s grace, which brings salvation has appeared to all men. Hebrews 2:9 --- Jesus tasted death for everyone. 1 John 2:2 --- Christ is the atoning sacrifice of the sins of the whole world. 1 John 3:8 --- Christ appeared to destroy the devil’s works. The doctrine of eternal damnation denies the victory of Christ! 1 John 4:14 --- Christ is the Saviour of the world. Revelations 5:13 --- Every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea will sing praises to him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb (Christ). Revelations 21:4-5 --- God will dwell with men and he will wipe every tear from their eyes, death, mourning, crying, pain and the old order of things will pass and everything will be made new.

Ilaria Ramelli’s two volume set “A Larger Hope” is also a great companion to Hart’s more philosophical arguments against eternal conscious torment as it uses church fathers to argue that universalism was more widely accepted than most people think.

That was an excellent presentation and great food for thought! The variety of Biblical views on salvation can’t all be true simultaneously -- it is a logical impossibility. At best one is closer to the truth than the others. Christian Universalism has good Biblical support and should be on the table for study as much as Calvinism or Arminianism, etc. This I suspect even the “Infernalist” will agree. But, if I may say, many Christians throughout the ages have believed that one criteria for converging on the particular interpretation that is “most likely to be true” is consideration for how well the doctrine squares with a God that we understand to be All Powerful, All Loving, and All Knowledgeable. They [Christian Universalist] would say that indeed we have a sovereign God fully capable of providing the level of clarity required (in a context of punitive consequences) such that every individual *freely* makes the right choice for God, whether in this life or the next. Nobody with basic reasoning facilities will continue to make a delusional bad choice long after it becomes finally obvious that a more truthful alternate choice is the best one. Hence, in the end, all are saved. God doesn’t give up on any individual until His will of reconciliation is accomplished.

I really appreciate how objectively you put forth the arguments! I am here for academic purposes (writing a paper and can't read through a whole book to explain a small portion of my essay), so it really helps to get a straightforward and well-informed analysis of the concept. Given your disagreeing, it is highly commendable that you do not give weak straw-man examples. Thank you!

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

I’ve only recently stumbled upon your channel. Having now watched several of your presentations (I’ll be back for many more!), I must say you are an inherently attractive human being, and I just instinctively like you right off the bat. And, while you are a good bit younger than I, I can see I have plenty to learn from your obviously large accretion of biblical/theological information. But I must chime in here, at the same time, with no offense in any way meant, just an old guy spouting some of his own accumulated wisdom-if you can say with a glowing smile on your face that you are “an infernalist,” you simply havn’t given the matter enough serious thought to comprehend the meaning of your own words. Like someone smilingly, boldly announcing their atheism. I have a rule of thumb, or litmus test if you prefer, that I truly believe to be infallible: if you can say it with a smile you don’t for a moment comprehend the implications of your own claim. That said, I love you my brother. God bless you.

Your honest effort is to be commended - but I think you got two of the three arguments wrong. You are not to blame; DBH writes powerfully but not always clearly. Indeed he has mentioned that he might rewrite the fourth meditation where he discusses free will, because, like you, many have misunderstood him as suggesting compatibilist free will. Actually what he writes about free will, modeled on the teaching of the Greek fathers, is far more subtle. Here in my own words: Our free will is as it seems, namely we have some power to choose this or that on our own sovereign accord. True freedom is the rational freedom, and rational freedom will always move towards the good and thus towards God. But in our fallen condition we are often quite irrational and therefore confuse what is evil for the good - and therefore often choose sin. But not in a compatibilist determined way, but in a way which to some significant degree depends on our own sovereign disposition, on our faith, or whether we pray or do other spiritual exercises, on our participation in the life of the church, on the love of our friends, and so on. We choose freely; nothing is determined. Still, in our long path of repentance in this life and the next we shall all necessarily choose to gravitate towards the good. Why necessarily? Because even though we are fallen creatures and thus to some degree irrational and unfree, we are made in the image of God and thus it is ontologically impossible for us to reach a state of infinite irrationality and absolute slavery to evil. Ever so slowly (and painfully) we shall all freely choose to repent and follow our good shepherd towards the Kingdom. (An interlocking powerful argument which you do not mention is that if God had created the world in such a way that it would be possible for even one conscious creature to suffer never-ending torment, then God would not be good in any intelligible sense of "good".) Secondly, his discussion of the scriptural text is not an argument for universalism. His goal there is to point out a fact: So in the NT there are many passages about the eschaton, some of which sound universalist and some infernalist. He is scholar of the relevant ancient languages and of the culture of the time, so he demonstrates that the apparent power of the infernalist sounding passages depends mostly on bad translations from Greek to Latin. And that conversely the universalist passages can hardly be interpreted away. So he uses his discussion of scripture not in order to support universalism but in order to defeat the impression that scripture clearly supports infernalism. It does no such thing. Actually there is good evidence that during the first centuries at least in the East where people could understand the scriptural texts in their original language the majority of the fathers as well as the people were universalists. Infernalism became dominant in the Easter church too only some time after Christianity became the imperial religion.

I really like that you tackle the topic of universalism. Thanks for the video!

Great presentation. If you would like to strengthen the case for CU, I would point to Thomas Talbot. His philosophical position looks something like this. 1) God loves mankind and wants to redeem them unto Himself. 2) God is sovereign and has absolute power. 3) eternal hell/annihilation Calvanism rejects position 1 and accepts 2 and 3. God is all powerful, but He will only save those He elects. (Predeterminism) (Annihilation) Arminians reject position 2 and accept 1 and 3. God loves everyone and desires to save all, but man's free will is greater than God's desires. Christian Universalists reject 3 and accept positions 1 and 2. God is love. He wants to save all and nothing will prevent His desires. With this framework, if 3 is true, then either position 1 or 2 is false. God either cannot save all, or will not save all. However, this is a bit of a condundrum, as both positions 1 and 2 are Orthodox positions in and of themselves. There are a mountain of scriptures that support position 1. There are a mountain of scriptures that support position 2. Position 3 has support, but it mostly depends on lens with which we read hyperbole, symbolism and parables. Conclusion: Whatever position 3 may be, it cannot be in conflict with either position 1 or 2. I am current working on a scientific position as well. There are over 9 million reports of near death experiences. There are some fascinating stories. Even if the stories aren't all true...if someone was clinically dead (which one cannot fake) and they returned a believer, that's all you need to know about post mortem salvation. I could go a step further and say that I believed a story where someone went to hell and returned, and say hell is therefore not eternal. But...honestly...their story isn't a requirement. The only requirements are clinical death, and a conversation after being revived. That's post mortem salvation.

Caleb, just came across your channel. Thanks for making this video. I’ve always been a fan of trying to know all the various interpretations on any given topic. It was helpful for me to hear you give this position of DBH even though you don’t embrace it. Keep up the good work. I’m a subscriber now!

Really clear presentation of his arguments. A video on the reformed responses to the book would be good, putting both sides in front of us.

Very nice. So now I would like to hear you about your arguments for not accepting universalism.

I've always said that Calvinism and Universalism are two sides of the extremist sovereignty coin. In Calvinism God is so sovereign that He determines who will be saved, and in Universalism God is so sovereign that since He wants everybody to be saved He will see that everybody gets saved. The Bible teaches that God is sovereign for sure, but it also teaches free will and human responsibility.

@Caleb Smith Nice work! You make some excellent points!

Hey Caleb. Thanks for your videos. You mentioned that you are seeing interaction with this book in the journals. Wondering which journals you read. Thanks.

I want and hope universalism to be true. I can't imagine somebody not wanting that and preferring many not be saved. I'm just not convinced it is true.

Universal salvation has to be true and makes perfect sense Christ died for the sins of "all" the world one life for billions, all for one and one for all. The good news is indeed good news as a matter of fact its more than good if there is such a thing. It is finished!!

Thank you Caleb for speaking and spreading the Truth of the Victorious Gospel aka the Restitution of All :)

“This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God our savior; Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim. 2:3-6, KJV

Great video. Found your channel a few months back and have been gradually making my way through your content, consistently excellent and illuminating. Would love to see you do a break-down of Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham in the same way you did for Paul and the Gift and Christian Origins and the Question of God series.

Please do make that second video if you haven’t already!

reading his book this week. i agree with alot of what he says

I’m not a universalist but Calvinism is of course insane.

Great job thanks so much

Yes, it's definitely helpful. I pray you have more viewer.

I agree with Hart and I think his arguments are a little different and quite a bit stronger than what your presentation suggests. But all in all, good, fair video. Subscribed.

The universalist position is that the word translated eternal "aionian" does not nessesarily mean "forever".

I actually find that most of the moral arguments for universalism are deflated if you can accept that postmortem salvation is possible, but that many will not take it and will live in perpetual inferno because they will never take responsibility and repent for their actions no matter what is said or done to them.

Im with calvinists as concerns the "non-existence" of actual uncompromised free-will. Romans 9:16-22 clearly speaks of Humans as being passive in their relationship with God: regardless of belief. Language of a "Potter" forming "Vessels" - "one for glory - the other for wrath" really puts all power in God's hands. "for this purpose: I have raised you up" is not an affirmation of free-will; neither is "not through him who wills/or runs". But where calvinists are lost is the fact that God: after imposing his will on his creation would also torture it (in part) without end. The Bible does speak of universal salvation quite clearly though. 1 John 2:2 "not only for our sins: [...] but for the whole world" 1 Timothy 4:10 "saviour of ALL men: especially (greek: "mallista" inklusive; first but not only) of those who believe" Revelation 14:11 " [...] tormented [...] UNTIL the age of ages (eis aionas aionon : until (not >in< the) longest duration)"

Matt. 25:46, the sheep and the goats passage, actually lends itself quite well to universalism. The phrase "eternal punishment" κολασιν αιωνιον, would be better translated as "enduring discipline". If Christ meant "vengeance" or "retribution" he could have said νέμεσις or τιμωρία. But he chose specifically the word that means punishment with the goal correcting bad behaviour.

Lyla sounds a bit like a riff on Hosea. As to this video, it might be the best example I’ve seen in terms of presenting an opposing view in an accurate and favorable light. Well done.

Very clearly presented. Thank you. Though Dianelos in the comment (below) would want to nuance what you have said a bit more... Enjoying your channel. Always up for a few more of NT Wright's weighty tomes - he is a writer where it's hard to sort out the wood for the trees sometimes and I expect you could help there!

I'd just like to say that David Bentley Hart, as yourself Caleb, believes in Hell. He just has a different view of the finality of that Hell and those who go there. He also makes good use of terms that look to those who may believe in eternal conscious torment and segregates a part of that group of believers into those who positively hope for the damned to suffer for that eternity. You can be an infernalist, annihilationist or universalist and be as each overwhelmingly sympathic and distraught for even that single soul lost to eternal conscious torment. With all the belief in the world in any stance, my mind removes that person from true Christianity as the essential aspect of Christianity - LOVE is lost to them in their desire that some, many or most may be on their way to an everlasting Hell.

I'd look into john crowder and hopeful universalism. I think you will find it even more enjoyable. first-time watcher and loved it. I subbed

Aside, would live to hear your comments on Don DeLillo's Underworld. It was a helluva read. With apologies to "infernalists" for the phraseology.

Have you read Fr Lawrence Farley's book, Unquenchable Fire?

I am reading 'That All Shall be Saved ' currently.

Fantastic job summarizing his arguments, especially since you don't agree with them! It takes a lot of skill and humility to explain an argument you disagree with so well! That being said, I think you overlooked his argument from creatio ex nihilo and the goodness of God. The argument being that since God created the cosmos out of nothing, God did not have to create the cosmos. And since God is omniscient, God will know who will end up being saved before God created the cosmos. If God saw that a large number of people would be subjected to eternal torment and God decided to go through with that, that would make God not essentially good. Therefore, if God is both Goodness itself and if God was free to create the cosmos, all must be saved.

Good video, seems like universalism has a big problem with the idea of suffering and evil/chaos being beutiful to some existences, but I can appreciate some arguments; I'm not a reformed either.

Being a Spiritist, I view these debates from the outside. However, it always strikes me how Christians in general insist in preaching God's love and perfection, and still defend that He developed such a complicated and partial plan of salvation.

I would agree people cannot undo sin by willing to do so for the will they have is egocentric will.

If man must participate in his salvation then there is no salvation. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If God had to rely on man... Just stop right there. Also, Satan need only win ONE SOUL. In so doing, he would be privileged to boast that he won one soul. That means that God is defeatable. This is why hell was never created nor intended for man... The Church teaches you must participate or be good or be a member or say a prayer... Etc.. The Roman Catholic Church was spectacular s when it came to interpreting scripture to empower the church. Unfortunately, the reformation didn't move far enough. The entire concept and teaching should have been reformed

I think you would really benefit from reading _"The Human Faces of God"_ by Thom Stark. I see that you are capable of seeing multiple sides of Christian arguments. I too can articulate and understand proof texts to support many different theological view points. I've been saying for awhile now that the Holy Spirit must convict the man of God differently for Christian men to all believe differently. This understanding and seeing the evidence has led me to believe the Bible is NOT inerrant. After 30+ years I am no longer a fundamentalist trying to harmonize every single scripture and try to explain everything away with an apologetic argument. I was a Calvinist but I see why people believe differently than my convictions. I also see the _cognitive dissonance_ I had holding to that view. We all want to believe what is true about God, His purpose, and our purpose. I think most of the issues today in Christianity is that we take the 66 book canon, voted and disagreed upon by men, and treat it like it is as perfect as God Himself. I really think you should read and look into this. It has completely changed my life and my faith for the better.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. I pray 🙏 God will open your eyes and stop the madness heresy manufactured by the Devil! You must take Jesus at his word! 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when JASON EGELAND will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Cool! We've now got a theology where everyone gets a participation trophy, sin is no big deal, and God is handcuffed by our sentimentalist version of love. I'm gonna play the odds and stick to my guns. After all, if they're right being wrong has no real cost. That's beautiful.

I wonder why Jesus said whoever denies me I will deny them... so What's the point of Jesus denying them (unbelievers ) if they will be saved anyway...

Do you plan doing a series on Dr. Michael Heiser books?

Caleb “the diabolical” Smith

I'm not sure how it's possible for an infernalist to love God except in a Stockholm Syndrome kind of twisted way.

Calvinism hurts my heart.

❤️

That first bunch of stuff from Bentley-Hart is a mess not even good enough for a cheap romance novel. The second one is sloppy Platonism. But "Un-Augustine your hermeneutics" is a great notion.

Good news: The same God that sits above us on the Throne, is the same God that is everyone, and he was manifested in the flesh! His name is Jesus and he died for the sins of all so that God may be all in all! Evil will not coexist with good/God forever for it is written that God shall be all in all...Praise God!!! For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:19-20 - All things means all things!!! One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:6 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Philippians 4:8 We are being made in the image of Jesus! ❤Who (Jesus) shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself. (Philippians 3:21) Thus all shall fulfill the first and great commandment!

A cheep-skate compatibilist is held up by a robber with a gun. The robber says, "your money or your life?" The compatibilist says, "How much time will you give me to decide?"

here's hart's latest post that you may find helpful if you do another presentation on his thought www.abc.net.au/religion/david-bentley-hart-obscenity-of-belief-in-eternal-hell/13356388

Don't know if we can swing for the universal fence, but we have some household promises: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your house."

Is it possible to agree with his 3 points without believing in universalism?

It really seems like a different gospel

I believe in universal salvation and reject infernalism, because I believe in a loving Father/Mother God, and in my opinion, no loving Father/Mother would send, or watch one of their children be sent, to internal punishment and eternal pain. Infernalism and the concept of a loving Father/Mother God are incompatible to me. “ That dog just don’t hunt.”

These "logical" conclusions are useless if not backed by scripture. The salvation of all is the message of the Bible end to end.

Hey Caleb, here is Tino from Germany. The problem with universalism here in the Lutheran pietistic tradition lies in the false reformation concept of "justification". As long as you define "justification" as forensic vindication and therefore synonymous with attaining eschatological salvation, you have big exegetical problems with Romans 5 on the level of textual grammar and the meaning of "all" . As long as you uphold the reformations (false) forensic vindication understanding of justification, the universalist can argue with the possibility /contextual probability that "all" means "all human individuals" , because of the parallelism to " in Adam all die". But as readers of NT Wright, we can figure out the solution to the problem of so called "universalism in Paul", and here I will propose it. I define according to the historical (new perspective on Paul) teaching "justification" as simply "being declared to be a member in the covenant family of Abraham in good standing". But: eschatological salvation is not dependent on just being member in the family in good standing at just "one point in time" , but it is dependent on being a faithful member to the covenantal standards that are set out by Jesus in his interpretation of tora (Luke 6, 46, Matthew 7, 21-23). If I have faith in Jesus, believing him being the Christ, the messianic king, and the truthfulness of his message, and therefore fulfilling the law by obedient faith/ allegiance/pistis (Ro 8, 4), then I will remain in this status, therefore I will inherit all covenantal promises, eg attaining eschatological salvation. So, basically, the solution is this: All people are being made members in the Abrahamic covenant family and thereby saved at the moment of a cosmic Jom Kippur when Jesus was dying on the cross. In God's perspective above all time, all human individuals are in and only in this moment saved in Christ. But in the course of human lives, some are loosing that status again by rebelling against the natural law in them (being lost without knowledge of special revelational law), some because they are denying allegiance to Christ, eg lacking obedient faith (John 3, 36b). But in the end, the righteous judge will be blotting out people from the book of life because of the lives they lived in rebellion and not because he did not save them. He saved us all, but by holding fast on to our rebellion we all can and most of us humans will be loosing that salvational status. It is all about allegiance to Christ as head of the covenant people Ro 11, 24. Without allegiance, all can and will be broken off the tree of Abraham. This modell I am proposing solves the following difficulties: 1. The salvation status of children. They are initially saved - for an unspecified time till they are considered as in rebellion to the covenant. 2. The salvation of people who helped others without knowing Jesus as master. Jesus accepts their lifestyle choices as allegiance, for the amount of knowledge one has is proportional to the degree of obedience you need to have for being a faithful servant in allegiance to the messianic king. 3. The fact that it is possible to be blotted out of the book of life - you can not be blotted out if you never were written in! So this being blotted out implies a time when everyone blotted out was written in the book of life, eg "saved". 4. The judgment according to works is now inevitably necessary to find out who, why and when lost his/her status of "being member in the covenant family in good standing". It is not necessary for God but for us all to see the things like God is seeing them, for in his eyes some are already judged and lost. Ro 2, 6-11. So it is true - all were saved in a proleptical way at the cosmic Jom Kippur of Golgatha. But most will be falling from grace: they do not cherish the charis/the present that was given to them in Christ, by rebellion, eg denying the reciprocal present of allegiance. Now my own private speculation: I think this could have been the view of Pelagius: because people are already saved and the loosing of salvation is dependent on rebellion, and the amount of knowldedge one has correlates to the amount of faithfulness the king demands, people can and will be saved outside the sacraments of the church. And people in the church who live in rebellion will be lost even with the sacraments of the church. But there is no such thing as effectual dammning inherited sin for all start being forgiven in Christ proleptically at Golgatha. In God's perspective, all individuals are saved proleptically in Christ at Golgatha and some are already lost and judged now and some are already gloryficated with Christ now. The NT statements about the salvation of people should be understood as an quantum mechanic superposition of different salvational positional states who are in the moment superpositioned and present in God's mind. But at death, we fall in a fixed state - the salvational wave function as superposition of two different possible states collapses to one state. But in the beginning, in God's eye everyone started as "saved". In one sentence: all human beings have been saved (proleptically at Golgatha) , but most will finally get lost because of false bad works. Even those with an insufficient "belief in Christ" that is not considered as "allegiance" by the judge according to works (belief as in James 2). Now is this works righteousness? I do not think so. We are gifted, but God specifies the demanded reaction to the gift he bestowed upon us in a certain way and declares his reaction to a lack of thankfulness (infernalism) .

infernalist is another way to say fascist.

Another reason why Trinity doctrine is false, man made.

Rob bell?? Lol there's better books out there for universal salvation Patristic Universalism is a good one among many others

You glibly claim to be an infernalist as one might mention one’s favourite beer. Do you not see the obscenity in infernalism? The monstrous God doesn’t disquieten you ever so slightly? Guess not: you’re saved. Bravo. So you can be cool with torture forever and discuss it with the levity of commentary on some football game?

Calvinism = the gospel… for some.

Where my infernalist gang at?! 😤 #sheepANDgoats #hell #narrowroad

God does NOT show himself as supremely beautiful to the Elect. If that were the case, I would've believed in Him and his Son the first time I learned about them at a church service. No, it wasn't until I believed that Jesus was real, and then sought out WHAT THAT MEANT that I understood that God planted faith in me towards His Son as Messiah (savior) prior to ANYTHING that had to do with my life, including believing that Jesus was real. You see how that works? We (the ecclesia - Called Out Ones) are Christ's workmanship, not the other way around.

It's amazing to me how hard believers will fight to keep and promote the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. It's such a revolting doctrine. Not worthy of God who is beauty, truth and love. X

Your theology is complete nonsense. Did you forget about the account in Matthew 7:21-23, where Jesus said to those, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity". This is regarding the final judgment. After that, it's all over. No reconciliation, no repentance. That's the last judgment. Oh, you mean, some time after that, God changes His mind, has another judgment to give them another chance? That is absolute ridiculousness. Your argumentation is nothing but a rambling discourse of what you think or what your notions are, instead of what the Bible states categorically.

So suicide comes about because that person mechanistically sees that as beautiful? How absurd.

Anybody believing this doctrine of universal salvation is heavily deceived, and will not inherit the kingdom of God if you don't come away from it, because you have a false Spirit deceiving you. All of you should know Jesus warned of false teachers in the last days, those deceiving themselves in the last days and heaping unto themselves false teachers. If you device yourself then that's your fault. God already warned you these things would happen in Scripture. If you choose to go to hell forever, then that's your choice for not turning to him in faith and repentance, and not being swayed by the rest of the world.

Absolutely fair, respectfully done, and informative video. I’m grateful people like you exist 🩷