Great experiment! S-04 gives off fusel alcohols or esters or both. Not phenols. And it only does that at high fermentation temperatures. So that was the cause. It should never be left alone at ambient temperature as it will rise the temperature on its own. If you do this again, but ferment it from start to finish at 64°F you will have no problem. This is what I do.

London III/1318 - I switched to this from S-04 a while ago and love it for everything ale.

Crazy flash back to some weird times.

As a British brewer, i demand you try "Thames valley 2". Other than that, this was a fantastic video.

Interesting video. Thanks! I'm glad that I haven't been brewing as long as you guys. I haven't reached the point yet where I am constantly picking nits with my beer and looking for improvements. I'm just glad to get a batch of beer that I really like (nearly all of them are). I'm definitely a "if it ain't broke don't fix it kind of guy." I just made a 5.5 gallon batch of Extra Special Bitter and used Fermentis Safale S-04. The batch has only been fermenting for 2 1/2 days, it is already about 90% of the way there, and should finish at about 5.2% ABV in a couple of more days. I took a small taste of the sample I drew to take a gravity reading and damn it just seemed spot on for the style. I think it is going to turn out to be an excellent beer.

I've split a 5 gallon batch into 6 x 1g demis. Pitched 6 different yeasts. It's really amazing how different the results were. I aged them, and the results increased in differences. All yeasts were dry. Ale was golden. Great vid gents. Thank you.

My vote as #3 is WLP013

hey its so nice to see u guys hang out again and do these videos........in covid days......thanks again and stay safe, John and Mikey......cheers

Horray! Super interesting guys! I can't wait for next episode! Here's a strain for you which I've used a couple of times: Wyeast 1469.

This is so great. We need more of this experiment. More English strains please.

You should try the Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale. Pretty amazing stuff

I love the yeast comparisons! I need to start trying experiments like this myself. Until I do, please keep these videos coming guys! Cheers!!

I'm a big fan of the WYeast 1469 West Yorkshire. Doesn't attenuate that well but it's a good performer and has a nice balanced nutty flavour. Does well in bitter and I love it in a mild.

I've been hoping for someone to do yeast experiments for awhile, greatly appreciate it. My yeast collection continues to grow, and videos like this definitely give me extra data points. Cheers guys!

I don't really like S-04 either, but I've found that with a couple weeks of lagering, it does improve dramatically and stops tasting as much of homebrew.

In my experience S04 needs a bit of time on the yeast after FG to really clean up. Longer than others. At least 2 weeks in primary. WLP007 is good to cold crash in 7-10 days.

A seemingly less used but interesting strain is the WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast. I have enjoyed it in my bitters - a distinct flavor with a good amount of fruity esters. It reminds me of cask ales I have had in the UK. (I guess this is the same strain as the Thames valley from Wyeast mentioned by others)

Glad you guys liked 007 as I, too, have come to like that strain in browns!

Great video. I love doing split batches with different yeasts. I did one last year with S-04 vs WLP013. I picked up WLP013 London Ale to try something new and fell in love with it for Brown Ale, Porter, Mild style beers (I threw it at a few NEIPAs without much success). The White Labs description says "Oak ester character" but I think tobacco is more accurate. WLP002 is the most "homebrewey" yeast to me. I have been wanted to throw WLP004 Irish Ale at some different styles as well...it is such an easy yeast to work with.

Great stuff as always. I just brewed a Nut Brown with WLP005 instead of my standard, inexpensive SafeAle 04. Impatiently waiting for it to carbonate to see how it came out. Keep the yeast experiments coming!

John & Mike -- this is a fantastic video!! I always love your SMASH videos and now you've one-upped yourselves and come up with another awesome series (I hope). Can't believe we get to enjoy this great content for free :). In terms of requests for future yeast comparisons, as a 100% dry yeast brewer (long story) I've done my own comparison on a brown ale with Nottingham and Windsor, although the beers were brewed almost a year apart. Would love to see you guys include these in a side-by-side comparison to see what your thoughts on these two are. Either way please keep the awesome videos coming!!

Love to see a brown or mild with West Yorkshire

Have you noticed or anyone reading this, that Safale04 has changed? This is not the same yeast it was 10 years ago. The way it behaves and flavor profile is different and in my opinion superior.

I repitch us05 and 04 all the time. Much better on repitch, making a starter helps too. Usually have airlock bubbling in an hour.

I like it. The last two times that I brewed with Nottingham I got the coppery taste. I will say that it took off and firmented like a champ though.

Excellent video. Drinking a English ale I brewed with s04 and I know exactly what you mean on the “home brew” taste

You should try Wyeast 1098 or WLP-005 British Ale Yeast. I used it for my Irish Red Ale and turned out fantastic. It left the beer dry and crisp (just how I like my Irish Reds) but it still let the malt shine. It has low esters as well.

It's interesting, but I'm not too surprised by this one. I use Rahr sometimes when I'm going for a more malt forward style, or even as a substitute for English pale malts. I think your assessment is spot on. Now I'm wondering though, how does Rahr compare to Briess pale ale malt? Because Briess has become the base malt for most of my American ales lately. I think the Briess is lighter, cleaner, allowing more hop character, but I don't know if I would actually notice a difference in the side by side comparison? Edit: this was supposed to be a comment on the malt comparison video, but KZfaq went on to a different video. LOL

Awesome video guys! love see the English brewing content. I did a comparison of fullers and west yorkshire last winter. I found that the fullers was better in the first week because it was a bit more fuller (no pun intended). then after a couple weeks the west yorkshire developed an amazing aroma and flavor, and what seemed like a thin beer before was now just nice, crisp and delicious. FYI West yorkshire has a krausen then does not go away. it sure if it is the correct thing to do, but I just swirl the fermenter to make it fall.

Great video guys, it's winter down here in Aus and I've been brewing a lot of dark beers with 04 and Nottingham, love to see one with Nottingham as this seems to be my favourite. I definitely get your description of the home brew taste with 04, but I still enjoy that in dark beers. I'd also love to see you throw in WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast

great comparison! Now throw Irish Ale into the mix (1084?), my favourite "english style" ale yeast.

Put an English IPA into kegs today, used WLP007 and I am very happy with the beer. Nottingham is also very good IMHO. Give WLP013 London a try.

Loooove this content. I'm a huge fan of English strains. I know you mentioned that you've moved away from 002, but it'd still be interesting to see in a future experiment alongside other yeasts. My favorites are 002 (ESB), London Ale III, and 007 (Dry). I've had great results with 002 in ESBs (big surprise) - somehow it really seems to pump up that unique EKG flavor, specifically. I've also had great results with 007 in semi-traditional IPAs... Lately, though, I've moved to London Ale III to accompany the "tropical" style hops in my IPAs - I find that it really ramps up those "juicy fruit" flavors. Though I haven't been a huge fan of S-04 in the past, I recently did an oatmeal stout with it. I thought the beer had very strong "bready" esters that were perfect for the style, and made a great beer, but would have be terrible in something lighter or more hop-forward.

It is said that S-04 IS the Whitbread strain.

Thanks for making a brown ale esp w/ ringwood! Love the buttery biscuit taste, bummed it didnt show up much.

Love this type of content looking forward to more comparisons. I use S-04 quite a bit for ipa and stout and while it’s not my favorite it always does pretty well for me. I have used Lallemand’s ESB yeast a couple of times now and both times it had the lowest attenuation of anything I have used. You guys should throw that in the next English yeast mix.

Great info guys, thank you. Lately I've been using WLP002 for British style amber ales and porters. Be interested in your opinion on this liquid yeast.

Love British Browns; I've been using S04 without any issues, but I think next time I will try instead WLP007. Glad to see a good yeast comparison for browns. As for Nottingham, I've used it once and it stalled on me. First time that ever occurred. Looking online I had found some others that experienced same. Wound up creating a starter with a different strain and pitching that in and the beer finished. I don't plan on using Nottingham again, but who knows maybe the yeast gods didn't favor me that day.

Really great Keep this type coming.

Awesome video guys, thank you! My yeast vote is for West Yorkshire!

i do like the colour of the brown,looking good Mate

Did you guys agree on the uniform before shooting the video?

Another great video thank you guys. One of my favourite yeast is 04. In my experiance it is great for bottle conditioning. The beer can change a lot in time. From a little under attenuation and estery beer to a dry and mature one. If only we can have the patience. :D Thank you and have a nice day. Cheers!

Control your temps ive had zero issues with S04 at 66 F

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. My go to English strain.

Control your temps ive had zero issues with S04

I experienced a similar thing s04 always gets homebrewy. I think that my pitch is not sufficient. Not a huge fan of it overall.

In order of preference I'd love to see London ESB strain or the Windsor ale yeast strain for the next video! Im currently brewing an English porter with nottingham

Great stuff, guys. I'm curious what temp increase is implied by the free-rise you mention. S-04 can certainly throw tantrums if it gets north of 21-22C early on in my experience. Some suggestions for possible dry yeast contestants would be Mangrove Jacks M15 Empire or M42 New World. They've both been rebranded to sound less "British" but they were originally "M03 Newcastle Dark Ale" and "M07 British Ale". M15 is the more interesting option IMO, but I'm not sure it will attenuate enough for what you seem to be looking for.

How about S-33?

S04 is hardcore yeast I love it

Nottingham and Windsor?

Wow, lots of comments. When he said Diacetyl i shouted Ringwood at the screen. How wrong i was :}

I would love to see 3rd+ generation so4 snuck back in.

Interesting that 007 won out over S-04 given that they are both commonly thought to be the whitbread strain. With that in mind, I would love to see a liquid v. dry comparison with Lallemand London ESB v. Nottingham v. White Labs WLP002 v. WLP007. I believe dry yeasts take off more quickly because they're packaged with other compounds (e.g. desiccated membranes, salts, proteins) that the yeast use as resources for replication, reducing lag time.

Not sure what your ferment temp was but I have to keep S04 below 67-68 to avoid the funkiness.

S04 i avoid at all cost. i could spend the time and brew all grain and it comes out tasting like i did a extract kit.. I'm done using that yeast!

Great comparison! I did a BGA with Nottingham with Giggles and hands down my favorite so far but I'm willing to try a different one that you might rank higher?

Very timely video for me, just about to start experimenting with these yeasts. By the way your wheel chocks should be on the downhill side of the wheels it tends to work better that way ;)

I like your format .keep it up. Try wlp023 i get good results. Vic from NZ.

The brewer is the cook. The yeast is the chef!

Windsor!

I vote WY1318 next time. Such a great yeast.

I made 1 or 2 great beers with Ringwood especially when fermented at room temp but I stopped using it, I think I don't know how to handle the yeast well, like you I experimented very long lag times, I also got one going sour because of the lag time in the passt Since it's an infamous yeast like you said It could be a yeast freshness issue.

Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley

1968 Wyeast ESB yeast all the way.

1275? Thames valley, or 1318. Whatever version/analog you can get.

Nice one boys! Do you get Mangrove Jacks yeast over there? Liberty Bell M36

Fermenting an English Ale with 04 too, about 7 days in. Didn’t have my keezer available for temp control, basement temps are 68 to low 70’s. Fermentation temps hit 78 degrees internal at its peak. What was your max temp? Your thoughts on my high temp of 78 for that 04 yeast?

Damn thats way more cl than ive ever brewed with

I want to start doing these types of Experiments. What type of equipment do you have to do these small batch sizes?

Great vid guys ... You could give Windsor a crack

I feel like most times I’ve made an ESB (which is a lot) it’s had that subtle home brewy characteristics of #1. And, shocker, I’ve used Fermentis more often than not. I’d love to see WLP-013 in that lineup. Definitely happy you’ll be doing the same recipe through this series. For my part, I’m looking forward to the next one!

I LoveLoveLove Brown Ales. I have used with good results WLP-02 and Omega OYL-03. Try it out. Way to keep those jeans high and tight.

Thames. Pronounced tems.

A CL of 264 will contribute to that slick mouthfeel

I understand a twing, not a twang!

No offence but I feel like you could have some kind of a brief of the differences you guys came up with because I don't really care 16 minutes worth, sorry. Giving a like anyway!

I want to subscribe... I really do... But if you saw your last 3 videos, would you? God, I know i sound like a troll, but KZfaq keeps suggesting your videos, but I watch them, and I'm at a loss... I want to hate them, while also appreciating the content, but I'm just getting goofy, camper, bad-beer... Are y'all at least bjcp certified?