$300 software vs $5,650 upsampler! HQPlayer review

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Passion for Sound

Passion for Sound

Күн бұрын

Download HQPlayer here: www.signalyst.com/consumer.html
A review and discussion of HQPlayer including why upsampling can improve audio, which filter settings do what, which noise shaping and modulation settings are best, and my preferred settings for HQPlayer. Plus, can HQPlayer replace a Chord M-Scaler or make an affordable Sigma Delta DAC sound as good as a Chord TT2 and M-Scaler?
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00:00 Introduction
01:27 Why use an upsampler?
02:54 A bit more about HQ Player
05:17 My approach to the review
07:29 Testing setup
08:27 Testing attenuation length
11:20 sinc-m filter tests
17:52 My biggest issue with HQ Player
23:07 Linear vs minimum phase test
24:27 poly-sinc-gauss tests
26:10 poly-sinc-gauss vs closed-form-M
30:57 Dithering & noise shaping tests
34:23 Sigma Delta tests (DO300)
36:05 SDM filter preferences
36:30 SDM modulator tests
38:57 Initial PCM & SDM conclusions
40:56 HQ Player vs Chord M-Scaler
43:34 TT2 & M-Scaler vs SMSL DO300 & HQ Player
46:56 Final conclusions
#audiophile #audioreview #hqplayer

Пікірлер: 282
@plumpudding2
@plumpudding2 11 ай бұрын
You seem to have things reversed. Short filters are not short attenuation but actually long attenuation, as in they take a while (in the frequency domain) to reach their maximum attenuation. Longer filters reach it much quicker, with the most extreme sinc-M being basically a brickwall filter reaching maximum attenuation almost immediately after the passband. Instead they are longer in the time domain, with Sinc-L taking up to 20 seconds to start if you're upsampling to DSD256. The difference between Sinc-M and Sinc-Mx is that Mx will scale with the upsampling ratio. Sinc-M always has 1 mil taps, Sinc-Mx will have 1 mil at 768k, 2 mil at 1536k and .5mil at 384k. So if you were listening at 768k it is no surprise Sinc-M and Sinc-Mx sounded exactly the same. It is a shame your computer was unable to process the EC DSD modulators, ASDM7ECv3 at DSD256 or higher fed into a bit-perfect DSD dac like a Holo dac or the RME ADI-2 is to me a revelatory audio experience. Finally there's a wealth of knowledge, experiences and interactions with the dev over at the Roon thread, definitely recommended reading: community.roonlabs.com/t/which-hqp-filter-are-you-using-2015-2023/6061/3668
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing this! As I said, I didn't dig too deep into what each filter was doing so I appreciate the clarification. (Pinning your comment for others)
@plumpudding2
@plumpudding2 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound thanks! And thank you for reviewing this wonderful audio product :)
@MistaLova-Lova
@MistaLova-Lova 11 ай бұрын
@@plumpudding2I "second and third" your comment about the EC modulators being a revelatory audio experience. Even though my DAC, to the best of my knowledge is not bit-perfect (Gus X26 Pro, ESS9038Pro), my jaw dropped when I fed it HQPlayer-upsampled DSD. Actually, that reminds me to pick it up, it's still lying on the floor somewhere. Happy listening! 🙂
@mcdirt7838
@mcdirt7838 11 ай бұрын
I can get a used RME-ADI AKM version locally for A$1500 - seems like a good price?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I haven't tried the AKM version, but I'd say that it all comes down to what you need. If you need the powerful EQ, crossfeed, etc. of the ADI-2 then it's a great choice, but if you don't need those controls then there are probably better DACs for less.
@zibikonti8901
@zibikonti8901 5 ай бұрын
Great review - thank you. So, I asked Microsoft COpilot the following question. "What are recommended configuration parameters for HQPlayer software working with RME ADI-2 DAC FS while receiving music stream from Qobuz service?" Answer (darn awesome): There are different configuration parameters for HQPlayer software depending on your preferences and system capabilities. However, a possible setup that works well with RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Qobuz service is as follows: • Output mode: Select SDM (DSD) to enable direct DSD mode on the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. This will bypass the internal PCM filters and volume control of the DAC and use the HQPlayer’s processing instead. • Backend: Select ASIO to use the native driver of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS and ensure low latency and bit-perfect playback. • Device: Select ASIO MADIface USB to use the RME ADI-2 DAC FS as the output device. • SDM Pack: Select None to avoid any unnecessary packing or conversion of the DSD signal. • Bit rate limit: Select DSD256 to match the maximum supported DSD rate of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. You can also try higher rates if your system can handle them, but you may not notice any audible difference. • Buffer time: Adjust this value according to your system performance and stability. A lower value reduces latency, but a higher value increases reliability. A good starting point is 100 ms. • DAC bits: Select 32 to match the bit depth of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. • Volume control: Select Software to use the HQPlayer’s volume control instead of the DAC’s. This will preserve the full resolution of the DSD signal and avoid any clipping or distortion. • Dither: Select None to disable any additional noise shaping or dithering of the DSD signal. • SDM filter: Select the filter that suits your taste and system capabilities. There are many options to choose from, but some popular ones are poly-sinc-ext2, sinc-M, and sinc-S. These filters offer different trade-offs between steepness, aliasing, ringing, and computational cost. • SDM modulator: Select the modulator that suits your taste and system capabilities. There are many options to choose from, but some popular ones are ASDM7EC, ASDM7, and DSD7 256+fs. These modulators offer different trade-offs between noise, distortion, and computational cost. You can also experiment with other settings and options in HQPlayer, such as upsampling, resampling, noise shaper, etc. However, the above setup should provide a good starting point for enjoying high-quality music streaming from Qobuz with your RME ADI-2 DAC FS. 🎶 For more information and tips on HQPlayer configuration, you can check out these resources: • HQPlayer settings for specific DACs: A forum thread where users share their favorite HQPlayer settings for different DACs, including the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. • ADI-2 DAC FS and streaming rates: A forum thread where users discuss the optimal streaming rates and settings for the RME ADI-2 DAC FS with various sources, including Qobuz. • HQPlayer User Manual: The official user manual for HQPlayer, which explains all the settings and options in detail.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 5 ай бұрын
Very interesting! I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate (e.g. the effective bit depth might not be correct), but that's an excellent start!
@SimonP2
@SimonP2 2 ай бұрын
Perfect, thank you.
@arthurkillen396
@arthurkillen396 10 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for making this video. It gave me enough info to actually try HQPlayer. Now that I've heard Qobuz played through ASDM7EC, I don't want to hear it any other way. Truly transformative experience for me. BTW, I only got the EC filter to work after I lowered the DSD bit rate to 128. To my ear, it still sounds more lush and vibrant than the standard ASDM7 at 256.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
So glad you gave it a go and that you liked it. Thanks for the tip on changing the DSD sample rate for the EC modulator.
@GoldenSound
@GoldenSound 11 ай бұрын
One thing that is worth noting and may be worth revisiting is the noise shapers with a true NOS DAC. With Delta Sigma DACs or Oversampling R2R DACs, the 'bit depth' setting makes little difference as the DACs internal dithering/noise shaping will 'overwrite' HQP's noise shaping work anyway. BUT, on a NOS R2R DAC, you can get a substantial improvement (one you can also measure!) by setting bit depth correctly. Setting it to within the linear range of the DAC (I believe that'd be 16 bits for the R26) allows the noise shaper to work most effectively. Keeping it set at default/24 bits actually means the noise shaper won't be working to the best it can
@HowardSokoloff
@HowardSokoloff 11 ай бұрын
Is Denafrips Ares in NOS (even though its not NOS) the right setting i should use while using HQPlayer/Roon. I started using HQPlayer a few months ago and find it crazy good. Not a small upgrade. Thanks
@deneszoltan2160
@deneszoltan2160 11 ай бұрын
I have a Devialet Expert that oversamples everything for 384kHz/40bits for DSP. Does it mean that using HQ Player filters have no meaningful effect?
@LSDScreen
@LSDScreen 11 ай бұрын
What should the bit depth be for the Spring 3?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info GoldenSound. I won't be revisiting because it's a level of tweaking that I'm not personally interested in, but great info for those with a true NOS R2R DAC (by the way, does your post imply that the Gustard R26 is not truly NOS in NOS mode?) As for the Denafrips Ares, I believe it still does stuff to the signal even in NOS mode. The Devialet will definitely be messing with whatever comes from HQPlayer, but it might still be worth trialling. Finally, try some searching on Head-Fi and the Roon forums for the correct bit depth for the Spring.
@cameronrector178
@cameronrector178 11 ай бұрын
15bit depth for the R26
@wiseguy2600
@wiseguy2600 11 ай бұрын
Very very nice review. I watched a first 50+min video today. Loved it!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
So glad that you liked it and stuck with me throughout! Thank you
@HowardSokoloff
@HowardSokoloff 11 ай бұрын
Goldensound just did a review on the Ferrum WANDLA DAC. That dac has a couple of HQPlayer filters built in. So it does exactly what you're talking about. Just a few specific filters that work great with the DAC according to him. Makes the whole situation a lot easier. Maybe check out that Dac in the future to compare with TT2/Mscaler combo. Also, you said a few months ago you were going to tackle the hqplayer, thanks for that. Great review!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it! I would love to try the Wandla, but Ferrum have been unresponsive to my previous emails ☹️
@phantomplastics6582
@phantomplastics6582 11 ай бұрын
Incredible job, you deserve a medal for this work. Thank you.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Haha. Thanks both 🙂
@OzSteve
@OzSteve 11 ай бұрын
Superb review as always. I've tried HQPlayer and like some, I like to just listen to music instead of playing with settings. I had a i9 with the Matrix Audio Element H. Ended up selling all that. I have a Chord Qutest in my headphone setup and recently added a M Scaler (bought cheap from a friend) and while I was never a 'up sampling' fan, I was really blown away with the sound from it. I thought I'd end up selling it, but now I need to get the Wave Storm cables to see if that helps. The only PC's I have in my hifi setup now days is a Nuc (12th gen) running Roon rock and one running Roon remote with a touchscreen. With HQPlayer, I believe some people will also need to have a quality PC to be able to run HQPlayer's up sampling and then other quality parts to make sure everything in the chain is up to spec. So that pushes the price up. While I managed to get the M Scaler for $3500 AUD I know people that spend more on a PC for hifi. My wife likes the convenience of just powering on the hifi gear and no PC. But now, thanks to this video, I am going to get HQPlayer 5 (as I tested 4) and give it another go. thanks again for another great video
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I hope you enjoy the HQPlayer trial
@blueninjasix
@blueninjasix 11 ай бұрын
Long time HQP user here and I agree with everything you say and endorse your settings choices. I don't fret too much over changing them anymore - I have a Qutest and use Sinc-M or Sinc-L with LSN15 or TPDF and leave everything else at default. I never get glitches, especially if I increase the buffer to 100ms. I also use Jussi's excellent NAA software to stream the output to a Raspberry Pi4 which cleans up the output too. Don't forget, it's generally perceived that M-scaler needs high quality and very expensive bnc cables to work at its best which can add 30% to its cost. That makes HQP an even better value proposition compared to M-scaler. You're getting 99% of the sound quality for 5% of the cost. It's like comparing a Bugatti to a VW ! (One of which I could never afford)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I do think the M-Scaler improves with better BNC cables, but I don't think it's necessary. Regardless, HQPlayer is still vastly cheaper than an M-Scaler and so close to the same sound quality.
@brothatwasepic
@brothatwasepic 10 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for this helpful video brother. G+k from Canada!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
My pleasure 🙂
@IsaacChew
@IsaacChew 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for your review. Reviewing this software is so hard to do and you have put in so much effort. I am trying hqplayer and I find your review useful. Users who have not tried hqplayer will find it too complicated. I would not have believed it has good results if I had not tried it. I convert all my music to DSD and play it natively on my quad 8741 dac. It does improve the music. I was shocked at the level of results. When hqplayer is installed, it is already populated w all the filters etc for both pcm and dsd. It is plug and play. Tweaking all the parameters can be done later.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 ай бұрын
I'm glad you found the review useful. Thank you for your post!
@joshuabrain9751
@joshuabrain9751 11 ай бұрын
Upsampling to DSD 512 with Sync M, ASDM7EC modulator absolutely transformed my Spring 3 KTE
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Nice!
@imosolar
@imosolar 11 ай бұрын
Awesome review
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@barrywatson7
@barrywatson7 11 ай бұрын
Great job, thanks!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@Mingchops
@Mingchops 11 ай бұрын
Huge effort on this vid, thanks!! Myself personally, I won’t even buy a DAC that has filters on it, for the fear of option paralysis!! HQPlayer looks like my worst nightmare, but fascinating nonetheless. Thanks for the insight.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I hear you. Too much choice really isn't a good thing often 🙂
@eminent2003
@eminent2003 11 ай бұрын
Great effort into getting started with HQP! One of the biggest downsides you touched on is the learning curve and pc power/cost and you nailed it in that it's not elegant or cheap in the upper realm. But, a far cry from other hifi kilobuck equipment out there. What it can do is something I find difficult to remove myself from in that once it's something heard and experienced, it's tough to go back to the music before. Of course, a lot of this will be down to transducer, synergy and music, but HQP can have greater potential than what's explored here. It depends on how much effort, money and time one is willing to give. In my case and system, it is integral in producing provocative auditory and sensory sensations that invokes tears and frisson unexperienced and unknown to anything I expected in audio. Good luck HQP fam!
@MistaLova-Lova
@MistaLova-Lova 11 ай бұрын
Exactly, it's the underlying theme in this hobby - once your ears have heard something better, it's virtually impossible to forget about this. I was initially frustrated with the number of options that HQPlayer gave me, I was irritated that I was gonna need to check at least some of them out (being partially guided by the description in the manual), but the end result was 100% worth it. Once I got to the stage where I have one setting which is brilliant for everything and a couple more for when I'm in a particular mood (e.g. a very short listening session), there has been no going back to me since then. 🙂
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for recognising the intent of this video. It was very much about helping people understand and get started with HQPlayer. For those who want to dive deeper, it's insanely powerful and could offer lots of fun if you're so inclined. You're right though that it's hard to go back to listening without it afterwards.
@alstonmaccow9386
@alstonmaccow9386 11 ай бұрын
Very interesting review
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@overnightparking
@overnightparking 11 ай бұрын
I Never understood what HQPLAYER was about and too lazy to do the research. I've been waiting for Rob Watts on his oft hinted at update to the M Scaler in the form of a DAVE companion and as an owner of a DAVE I've avoided the current M Scaler thinking thee update was just around the corner. After watching your video I feel confident enough to give HQPLAYER a try with Roon which I use. I obviously found this review useful and appreciate the work you put into it. Thanks!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks Eric! So glad I could help!! 🙂
@tdg176
@tdg176 11 ай бұрын
I personally owned TT2 for years and wen I received the Holo Spring 3 with and used HQ player I got rid of the TT2. The Spring 3 with HQ player sounded better to me. Better soundstage, separation and realism were the 3 biggest standouts. If I use HQ player with smsl su-9 it does not sound as good 👍🏻
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences 🙂
@kafkaworkshere
@kafkaworkshere 8 ай бұрын
What settings did you use on the Holo Spring 3? If you got better mileage than the TT2, the right HQP settings would provide a bang-for-the-buck I'd be interested in exploring.
@michabuszynski7326
@michabuszynski7326 11 ай бұрын
Such a good job my friend ! Thanks for this effort ! Just a very small detail that i changed that might help someone, in output settings Default mode in Yours is set PCM. In my case (PC -> Singxer su6 -> Denafrips Pontus 12th ) I had to set it to "Source" so i can hear DSD in Roon ) If it help to anyone please take a look, apart from that amazing job, actually You should get a cut from HQplayer team, because your simplification of the settings made me to go back to this software and pull the trigger for full version. With out your work i would not find those settings and propably would not buy it. Ps: Just Idea for Hq Developers, it would be amazing in the future to see it possible working with VLC player or any other video player upsampling the video content like DTS, Atmos movies etc Once again Thank You 🙌
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip! Changing to "source" will keep the output format the same as the original file (either PCM or SDM/DSD). Glad you liked the video 🙂
@clarkejones8090
@clarkejones8090 11 ай бұрын
Thank you.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
My pleasure
@taidee
@taidee 11 ай бұрын
I'm one of those people who don't even like the tuning switches on IEMs, so this would simply be too distracting and a pain to deal with. Thank you Lachlan for taking on these esoteric corners of our hobby to flash out the answers, like dealing with cables 😆, especially when you dealt with USB cables. You are a brave guy man, you're appreciated here in Cape Town, South Africa.
@pedrosantos3648
@pedrosantos3648 11 ай бұрын
Distracting? Pain? You only have to go to settings once after installing to choose the recommended filter. It takes 10 seconds, and you never have to go to settings again, just play. You can be sure that Mscaler takes more time to setup than HQPlayer.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
The M-Scaler is quicker than HQPlayer, Pedro, but your point is valid that you can just set HQPlayer once and then forget it. The catch is knowing which settings to choose and leave in place. Glad you liked the video, Tai Dee. If you do want to try HQPlayer, just use the settings I recommend at the end of the video and go for it. It's free to try.
@PauReydefaura
@PauReydefaura 11 ай бұрын
Brave and good review!!! Why did you tested HQ-Player without the SU-6 DDC when comparing to TT2+M-Scaler? I can guess the reason but it was not mentioned.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
There was no need for the SU-6, but also I wanted to keep the connections consistent to minimise variables.
@sjqideez6626
@sjqideez6626 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for this, much appreciated. There are not many true NOS DACs out there for software upsampling, Metrum make them though.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked the review. As for NOS DACs, there are Holo Audio, Gustard (R26) and HiFiMan EF600 (and EF400 I think). Not sure if any Musician and Denafrips DACs properly implement NOS.
@IronHorsey3
@IronHorsey3 2 ай бұрын
A lot of work here, sorry you were sick when undertaking it but a RME-ADI-2 set for DSD Direct using HQPlayer 5 in my tube amp monoblocks system is insanely divine. No more PCM "dithering" pardon the pun. Everything goes SDM setting in HQPlayer 5 using Qobuz. SDM settings; Oversampling 1x: poly-sinc-gauss-long, Oversampling Nx: poly-sinc-ext2, Modulator: ASDM7es-light, bitrate: 48K x 256. Played through a M1 Macbook Air. Runs beautiful. Try it with DSD Direct on RME and let us know. 😁
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 11 ай бұрын
For my system I use the same PCM Shaper but use the Sinc-Mx when over sampling. The Dac is the Holo May KTE
@LimePieMusic
@LimePieMusic 11 ай бұрын
Holo May is absolutely amazing dac 😃👍
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Have you tried the closed-form-M, Eric? I'm curious to know how it compares with the sinc-Mx via the May.
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I did give it a quick try but need to test it with some other types of music. When up sampled to 1.5M and using sinc-Mx I hear better separation between between instruments and more space. Again, I will need to listen to some other types of music to see if hold true for all music genres
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 9 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I was reviewing a post the developer of HQPlay with his favourite settings and it is the best I have heard yet 1x = poly-sinc-gauss-long, Nx= poly-sinc-gauss-Hires-Lp LNS15
@nick_g
@nick_g 11 ай бұрын
Brilliant! I own the hqplayer software and it is a journey to understand the ocean of options. But I think it’s a wonderful option to access some high quality sound processing at a more affordable price. I learned a few things from your review as well. Maybe there’s more content to be had with hqp as I also wonder about comparing it to high end cables. Personally I like the DSD sound, but that might be because I think DSD allows me to bypass the filtering on my Soncoz DAC. In effect, maybe that’s the same as NOS or bypassing PCM filtering on nicer, more expensive DACs with needing pay for one? I digress, thanks for the helpful review!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yes, different modes will suit different DACs better. If you can't switch off the filters then SDM is probably better to bypass them altogether in some DACs. As for comparing with cables, that's not really a comparison because both do very different things and can't replace one another. Glad you liked the video! 🙂
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 11 ай бұрын
FYI - it comes configured out of the box to provide good sound on all tracks and will work on most PC hardware. 👍
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
That's a good point. Perhaps not optimised, but good enough out of the box.
@edwardbit8225
@edwardbit8225 11 ай бұрын
Thanks great review.....I am interested to know how upsampling improves the sound,as the usual measurements dont show anything?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
This is where the measurements fall short. I think I discussed in this video that upsampling is about improving the accuracy of the transients (i.e. precise timing of the signal reconstruction). This won't show up on the measurements, but makes a significant sonic improvement.
@GoldenSound
@GoldenSound 11 ай бұрын
The DO300 has a setting that is listed as 'NOS' but it's not actually NOS (NOS is not possible on a delta sigma chip). The filter off mode means the first stage FIR filter is no longer used, but the 2nd stage upsampling/modulation is still active.
@1antastik
@1antastik 11 ай бұрын
Hello @GoldenSound, am I right in saying that after your M-scaler review you promised a separate video for HqPlayer? It would be much much appreciated, as much as this one in this channel. Please include also PGGB free add on for Foobar2000
@MrRlampa
@MrRlampa 10 ай бұрын
Fantastic proposal! One year ago I started upsampling my music library with pggb after comparing and preferring it to hqplayer
@johnratcliffe6438
@johnratcliffe6438 10 ай бұрын
​@MrRlampa Am I correct in thinking PGGB creates upsampled files which you then play? What sample rate does it upsample to?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
That's correct. They take up a tonne of storage space though (like 1+ GB per track)
@MrRlampa
@MrRlampa 10 ай бұрын
@@johnratcliffe6438 Hi John, with mojo2 I started with 24/192 upsampling (flac compression) reaching a nice instrumental/voice separation and the stage increased quite a bit. Then I wanted to test 32/768 not expecting anything noticeable. I was really surprised to find that the noise floor lowered in a way I was able to distinguish clearly all the subtle reverberations of the sounds. The price to pay is to prepare a lot of storage for your music, but with the new flac version you can compress 32bit also with a nice saving. The foobar pggb plug-in is free and let you convert your library with no limits. Beware that with such high rates also the USB cable quality and the amplifier noise floor can block or reveal the increased intelligibility
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 10 ай бұрын
FYI with an 8C/16T AMD CPU + RTX 4070 I can run any filter/modulator combo I have tried so far including the dreaded sinc-Mx at DSD512 (i.e. with CUDA offload)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info!
@matthewhilty4209
@matthewhilty4209 11 ай бұрын
I'm pretty impressed with HQPlayer and your recommended settings. I have had a couple of " Wow I hadn't heard that before" moments and am seriously considering a buy. I now wonder how much music was thrown away when mixed and recorded between samples, especially at lower bit rates. Oh and I have a 1stgen Schiit Yggy with the firmware update and set the bit depth to 21 bits if that helps anyone. Also for some reason the absolute phase seems to be reversed but maybe that is just an anomaly on my DAC (I'm glad it has that phase button).
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences! Glad you like the software and suggested settings.
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 10 ай бұрын
It depends on your DAC but I am loving SDM poly-sinc-xtr-short-lp ASDM7EC-super 512+fs at DSD512 right now. The transients are not the best with poly-sinc-xtr-short-lp so you might like a gaussian variant better but this sounds more intimate and wetter to me.
@niknayak
@niknayak 11 ай бұрын
Excellent review. Long time HQPlayer user here. I completely agree that the sheer number of choices is overwhelming. I have a question - in your comparison with the M-Scaler, is there a reason why you did not go with PC > SU-6 > TT2?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yes, the TT2 has only BNC and optical inputs (other than USB) and can't accept high sample rates via those inputs
@brothatwasepic
@brothatwasepic 10 ай бұрын
Hi Nik I was wondering what your favorite settings are for the absolute most detail retrieval and instrument separation
@Martijn1234
@Martijn1234 11 ай бұрын
Great review I may give it a bash! In the digital domain I guess its all software at the end of the day. The Grimm MU1 made the largest difference I have ever heard going into a DAC. I would love for you to try that thing. I could literally can play anything on it and enjoy it and that was with Susvaras 👌
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I'm not familiar with the Grimm MU1. I'll go take a look... Good you liked the video.
@trevorharrison29
@trevorharrison29 11 ай бұрын
Same here. Grimm MU1 was the biggest upgrade to my system. I understand the high cost of the MU1 is for the incredibly accurate clock. Hans Beekhuyzen bought the MU1 after his review (and sold his M-Scaler.)
@trevorharrison29
@trevorharrison29 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound MU1 available here in Melbourne, from John Ong @ Sound Gallery in Carnegie. I bought John's demo showroom MU1 and saved a chunk of coin.
@stijnvanderlooy5311
@stijnvanderlooy5311 11 ай бұрын
Grimm js incredible, indeed
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Wow! That's high praise indeed. I trust Hans' ears so that's impressive
@peytonsnead3114
@peytonsnead3114 11 ай бұрын
Maybe get a user poll on preferred settings.
@user-nx5vu4dy2j
@user-nx5vu4dy2j 5 ай бұрын
Hello. Thanks for your deep review of HQPlayer software. A thought about the remaining difference between HQPlayer and M-Scaler witch gives the latter a better SQ: the direct connexion between PC with HQPlayer to the target DAC. This may give the not dedicated operating system, the required power (CPU, GPU and so on) for computation a disadvantage to HQplayer versus the M-Scaler. Did you tried with a NAA (the network dedicated protocol of HQplayer) compatible device attached to the TT2 allowing a better "isolation" between the compute part and the audio part? HQPlayer dedicated OS for example on a simple Raspberry PI 4 or better, or a more advanced setup such as SOTM SMS-200 or SMS-200ultra (with dedicated SPS-500 power)? Philippe
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 5 ай бұрын
I haven't tried with a networked attached device type of setup. It would be an interesting extra wrinkle perhaps.
@roybenz187
@roybenz187 11 ай бұрын
Great video. I Applied the settings you listed for pcm. The difference with and without hqplayer now is really noticeable! I haven’t heard the difference before now. Thank you. Would it be even better if I get another dac that can turn off the dac upsampling ? I have the moon 430had with internal dac ESS Sabre 9018K2M
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
So glad the settings worked well for you! Rather than buying a new DAC, try converting to SDM via HQPlayer instead as that can largely bypass the internal DAC chip's processing.
@roybenz187
@roybenz187 11 ай бұрын
Thank you. I notice when I switch to sdm dsd it’s fairly louder than pcm, why is that? :-) is it good or bad? Using the settings in your video.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
You might need to check the settings in your HQPlayer app and DAC. It sounds to me like there might be some extra attenuation applied to PCM and not SDM. It might be fine or it might lead to clipping of the SDM signal which you'll want to avoid.
@davidlynam8729
@davidlynam8729 11 ай бұрын
Did you try HQ Player with the Yggdasil? they have a new model, the Yiggy +, with an NOS mode
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I didn't because it's limited to 192kHz and mine doesn't have NOS mode. It would be interesting to try though.
@dajikbatarang1
@dajikbatarang1 11 ай бұрын
HQ player might be something worth trying via roon to my R26.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Definitely! The R26 has great potential in NOS mode and/or with DSD
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 10 ай бұрын
After A/B comparing the Gustard A26 and R26 both in DSD Direct mode, it is unfortunate you went with the DO300 for your DSD tests. The R26 DSD Direct impl blows the doors off the A26 and its AK4499EX (i.e. with nearly the same output stages). I anxious to hear the Holo DSD experience but for now I am super happy with the R26 using HQplayer and DSD512 direct.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences
@gilesgilbert2704
@gilesgilbert2704 11 ай бұрын
I use a spdif in, usb adapter and that way I can use it with any source I like.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
So you can take SPDIF from say a CD transport and convert in the computer before sending to the DAC? That's handy!
@vagomaniac
@vagomaniac 11 ай бұрын
Speaking of DS we want the A26 review mate. Cheers
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
If someone will send me an A26, I'll be glad to provide 😁
@gioponti6359
@gioponti6359 11 ай бұрын
pls correct me if i’m wrong, but in order to run the HQplayer you will need a rather powerful PC as a roon core or streamer in front of your dac, while cord TT/M-scaler one could use a low power & low(er) noise streamer? I suppose the comparison TT-M/scaler vs the more affordable DAC+HQP was conducted using the same source? yes, incredible work you have done 👏👏👏!!!
@Cestmoi50
@Cestmoi50 11 ай бұрын
Not too powerfull pc, a i5 laptop gets you very far already. Get a zen stream as a decent streamer, connect the zen stream to the dac. Hqplayer can send all upsampled audio through NAA network protocol directly too the zen stream. And don’t forget you can use a phone hqplayer app to remotely control hqplayer. It works perfectly! And amazing
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yes, you don't need a super powerful computer for HQPlayer unless you want to run the very intensive SDM modulators like ASDM7EC (discussed towards the end of the video). All testing in this video used the same PC as the source for everything. You're right though that the M-Scaler can remove the need for anything beyond a basic transport level computer like a simple Raspberry Pi and then can also accept other sources too.
@Maver1ck911
@Maver1ck911 11 ай бұрын
This is full time work 🤯 the other hidden cost which you touched on is what sort of PC hardware you truly have to have invested in prior to licensing HQP. Could you pin a comment with your final conclusions/suggested pairing/configurations?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Good point. You don't need an expensive PC to run HQPlayer unless you're pushing into the extreme SDM settings. I might not pin my preferred settings because I don't want people just debating them out of the context of the video, but here they are for you: Preferred filters: Closed-form-M Closed-form-16M (SDM only) Preferred PCM noise shaper: LNS15 Preferred SDM modulator: ASDM7 Bit-depth: default (unless you know your DAC's effective number of bits in which case you should use that)
@Maver1ck911
@Maver1ck911 11 ай бұрын
@PassionforSound screen shotted if you wanna delete! My laptop is trash so it cries on poly sinc M.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Happy to leave it buried in the comments, but thank you 🙂🙂
@ethos79
@ethos79 26 күн бұрын
Can I use HQPlayer to enhance the quality of an already mixed track and download the upscaled file?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 26 күн бұрын
Not that I'm aware of, but PGGB does that I think. It's an upsampling app that you run on your computer to upsample and store files locally.
@burakoztimur8054
@burakoztimur8054 7 ай бұрын
Hello, my system is KEF R5/ Kink Studio EX M1/ Denafrips Ares 2/ Hp mini linux computers( upnp bridge connection by each other). I respect your experience about this hobby and I've chosen close m form/lns15 ( 768 khz/ 16bit). Is it worth upgrading my computer system in order to run DSD over my PCM settings sound quality wise with my Ares 2 R2R Dac? Best Regards from Turkey/Istanbul :))
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 7 ай бұрын
I'd stick with PCM for an R2R DAC like yours. As I understand it, they are more suited to a PCM signal rather than the 1-bit pulses of DSD.
@DSor1
@DSor1 6 ай бұрын
This may come a bit late considering when you did this review, but I went through your analysis with my own equipment, and I am finding that the closed form M filter, while it is true it really improves imaging, soundstage (depth particularly) and music body, I find it can change tone, particularly in male vocals. Is this something you observed and contained somehow?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 ай бұрын
I didn't notice any tonal shifts in my tests and upsampling shouldn't really affect the frequency response. What type of change did you hear?
@DSor1
@DSor1 6 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSoundwell, hard to describe, but it is as if trying to perfect the sound, Hqplayer removed some of the "defects" of the voice of the singer and made the voice sound "better" but also very distinguishable from that of the singer. At times it almost sounds as well as if the timing of the voice was off… I noticed this particularly with Wilco, U2, Andrew Bird (his ends up sounding a bit robotic), Cohen. This does not happen in Roon. I contacted Denafrips see if they can direct me a bit. I own a Venus 2 12th and an Arce streamer (great combo by the way if played with Roon), and I am wondering if this has something to do with firmware…I will keep playing with filters today, see which ones accentuate this issue so that I can let them know.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 ай бұрын
That's really interesting. Good thinking to contact the DAC manufacturer to see if they have any ideas. I wonder what's causing it??
@qualifierswedenab8767
@qualifierswedenab8767 11 ай бұрын
Great job! But shouldent you have included the su-6 in the test with the hq-player?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
No need to include SU-6 - it's just a DDC and should have no influence on the use of HQPlayer
@qualifierswedenab8767
@qualifierswedenab8767 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I thought the su-6 provided a galvanic isolation which is benifical for the sound?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
That's true, but I was testing the upsampling, not the DAC or DDC and the SU-6 doesn't behave well with high sample rates. It could be how I have the IIS set, but I'm not sure.
@brothatwasepic
@brothatwasepic 8 ай бұрын
Hi Lachlan. You know how you can just plug in an M Scaler into anything with ease and it works. I think "HQ Player embedded" is the equivalent way to do this but I can't quite figure out how to do it on the exact same PC that you are running your music software (ie:qobuz). By any chance do you have a video where you could teach us how to do it even if only on your Patreon? Thanks so much
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 8 ай бұрын
I haven't looked into this as yet, but you're right about the concept (as I understand it). It will still be limited to PC based playback only, but would be a nice step forward from the Roon>HQP>DAC/Streamer arrangement
@brothatwasepic
@brothatwasepic 8 ай бұрын
@PassionforSound totally thanks man. Have a great weekend
@joshua43214
@joshua43214 8 ай бұрын
HQPe runs on a headless Linux install (no user interface, you access everything via the command line in ssh). It is not for the faint of heart, but once you get it installed, you just add whatever additional software like Roon, Plex, etc. HQPe also needs a network endpoint (NAA, or more commonly called an renderer or sound card) such as a RPi with a network card or a commercial product like a Sonore Rendu. Even if you get HQPe set up, Jussi provides no support at all for Linux with regards to security or networking, and getting support from the Linux community is about impossible unless you speak their jargon (which means you already know most of what you are doing). If you want HQPe, your best option is to buy something from Small Green Computer. The prices for most of his computers are very reasonable. If you have an old computer and some Linux experience, and a lot of patience, you can set up your own server - HQP runs full featured for 30 minutes then needs to be rebooted until you buy a license. The desktop version is an absolute shit show for usability, probably the worst UI I have ever used. It interfaces seamlessly with Roon though, and will also work with any LMS player.
@brothatwasepic
@brothatwasepic 8 ай бұрын
@joshua43214 thanks so much Joshua! Man I so wish there was a Windows way to keep it running in the background for anything I played on Qobuz or similar flac-based music service. I am quite impressed with some of the windows HQ Player filters. Thanks for the great info man.
@Bushviking
@Bushviking 11 ай бұрын
Audirvana (mac) also has an upscaling function. I switched it back on to listen if i can hear a difference after seeing this. Not sure yet.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
The upsampling in software like Audirvana, Roon and JRiver is fine, but won't match what HQPlayer is capable of
@arthurkillen396
@arthurkillen396 10 ай бұрын
I've found Audirvana DSD uspampling to be more noticeable than its PCM upsampling. But HQPlayer's upsampling is a different animal. Much more effective than Audirvana to my ears.
@GodfreyMann
@GodfreyMann 7 ай бұрын
Do you think HDplayer with a Dave would be much different than with M-scaler? I’m just thinking there’s no point buying an M-scaler right now as it’d be better to wait for the Dave-Scaler, so I guess my question is would HDplayer work as a good stop-gap in the interim?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 7 ай бұрын
Yes, HQ Player is a great stand-in. You can absolutely get equivalent sound quality via HQ Player. The only downsides IMO are a fiddly setup process and that you're limited to computer-based audio via USB output.
@GodfreyMann
@GodfreyMann 7 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I just tried it with an ADI-2 Pro FS and it’s pretty amazing. A fantastic track to highlight the difference in imaging, transparency, and left/right soundstage is the 4th movement of Beethoven Symphony no. 9 with Solti conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (1972, Decca). From 22:05 to 23:05 the soloists are blurred and singing on top of each other with the ADI-2, but once HQ player is added the singers separate left-to-right on the soundstage with increased clarity so you can tell roughly where they’re standing. There’s also better transparency and separation of instruments. But tonally, it makes the ADI-2 sound a bit digital (sometimes sibilant) with stringed instruments. It shows Rob Watts’s theories work in practice, so I think it’s definitely worth auditioning a secondhand Dave and testing it with HQ Player.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 7 ай бұрын
I'm so glad you gave it a go so you could hear it for yourself!
@richardmorisson6191
@richardmorisson6191 11 ай бұрын
I don't use a computer, per se. Instead, my Innuos Zen Mini Mk 3 provides a digital signal to my DAC via USB. I think probably not, but is there any way to use HQ Player to enhance the audio signal coming from the Innuos? Advance thanks!
@gioponti6359
@gioponti6359 11 ай бұрын
I guess with roon, if your streamer works as a roon endpoint (if it has this function).
@HeDidItAllForYou
@HeDidItAllForYou 11 ай бұрын
Use the Innuos as an HQPlayer NAA - the SQ is the best I’ve heard
@richardmorisson6191
@richardmorisson6191 11 ай бұрын
@@HeDidItAllForYou Thanks, please clarify. I only use the Innuos as a ripper and server, as I don't stream. What is"NAA," and what do you mean by using the Zen Mini as a HQPlayer?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I'll let Jim explain because I haven't tried the Innuos gear to know how it works/what features it offers. As gioponti said though, if you can connect Roon to the Innuos and control it from there, you could potentially integrate HQPlayer that way, but then you'd need to have a computer within the system. This is where the M-Scaler is so helpful, but also so much more expensive.
@Reeeepicheep
@Reeeepicheep 8 ай бұрын
Which mouse is that? Did you do the ceramic bearings mod?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 8 ай бұрын
No mods. It's the Elecom DEFT Pro if it's the trackball I had on the desk for this video.
@Satyajit_Dey
@Satyajit_Dey 4 ай бұрын
According to Goldensound, only Dacs that have a real NOS mode done properly are Holo dacs.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 4 ай бұрын
That might be true, but I have no way of verifying that.
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 11 ай бұрын
Did you use DSD Direct when testing on the R26?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
No, I wasn't a fan of the DSD on the R26 when I reviewed it (compared to PCM) so I only used the SMSL DO300 for my SDM testing.
@IronHorsey3
@IronHorsey3 2 ай бұрын
DSD Direct on the RME ADI-2 and HQPlayer 5 is divine. (See my other comment in this thread.) Thre reports of people sellling their Chord Dave and M-Scaler may be true.
@fmc_kaya
@fmc_kaya 10 ай бұрын
Amd epyc 9654 or threadripper pro 3995wx ? I use Hqplayer 5 with roon.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 9 ай бұрын
I'm not sure which setup is best. I didn't get that deep into it
@kafkaworkshere
@kafkaworkshere 8 ай бұрын
I just purchased HQPlayer. I'd rather have the M Scaler but I don't have five grand. I did have $300 and, while there are more knobs on it than the cockpit of a 747, it at least shows me some of the wonders of upsampling beyond what I've been getting off the Chord Qutest. I don't yet know how to use it with a streamer without involving Roon, so my impressions are based on a few Flac files I've purchased off of Qobuz. The files, themselves, are already pristine but when run through the HQPlayer, they produce a slight 3D effect. The music sounds more holographic. Some music/styles showcase this better but I'm hearing a slight echo, like a reverb, a noticeably larger soundstage and some degree of instrument separation. It's like that aha moment with the HD800, the Utopia, the Susvara, the AB-1266, the LCD-5 and the SR-009. Tighter timing doesn't elevate the bass or treble but the definition and staging are enhanced, as if you're dancing between the raindrops. The M Scaler has the advantage of plug-n-play. It's not fair to say a piece of software, alone, is comparable when you also need a fast PC to run it. Having a decently-fast PC, I was impressed by what $300 can do. One thing I don't like about the HQPlayer is that all these little changes - as rich as they may be - can't be selected and heard while the track is playing. A change to the settings requires a kind of start-over, which makes any A/B-ing clunky and tedious. You can't just make changes while listening to the track in real time. I need to get an M Scaler to make a direct comparison, but from where I am at this point, it looks like the difference between a Mac and a PC. With their plug-and-play ease-of-use, Chord products look more like a Mac. HQPlayer is more like a PC, where you might be able to get better, more tailored, performance but only if you know enough about the guts of the machine to know what to do with it.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 8 ай бұрын
Great points across the board. I completely agree. 🙂
@kafkaworkshere
@kafkaworkshere 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the positive feedback. I love your channel. @@PassionforSound
@peytonsnead3114
@peytonsnead3114 11 ай бұрын
Not halfway through, but limiting choices is the key.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yep. This is an overwhelming tool 🙂
@peytonsnead3114
@peytonsnead3114 11 ай бұрын
So i downloaded it and started reading the manual. There is a serious time investment to figure it out. Agree, they need a user friendly version.
@williamobrien6936
@williamobrien6936 8 ай бұрын
Interesting hoodie caption :) Now If it weren't for those pesky AB tests.
@Reeeepicheep
@Reeeepicheep 10 ай бұрын
Does anyone know if you can get HQPlayer to play on iPad with Roon (even if you’re running it on a PC)?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
If you're running HQPlayer and Roon on the PC, you can send the Roon output to HQPlayer and then control from the iPad. You just won't have access to the HQPlayer settings on the iPad.
@Reeeepicheep
@Reeeepicheep 10 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound Was hoping there would be a way to output HQPlayer running on my PC to the iPad since my iPad is a cleaner source than my PC.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
You could maybe setup your iPad with UPnP software and then have HQPlayer set to output to that software as the endpoint. That should work I think
@jcee41
@jcee41 11 ай бұрын
Slightly pedantic but I believe HQPlayer IS adding information that was not there in the original signal, via that reconstruction mechanism. Because you are essentially guessing what the true waveform is, and there are multiple ways to guess this as evidenced by the multitude of filter options. If upsampling is able to reconstruct the true original waveform, then you may have stumbled across the most efficient compression algorithm ever seen 😊
@Cestmoi50
@Cestmoi50 11 ай бұрын
Wake up, ev-er-y dac chip from ess to akm etc… works like that! But with less taps, hqplayer or mscaler are just working the same way but way way more powerfull and professional.
@jcee41
@jcee41 11 ай бұрын
@@Cestmoi50 yeah. Why are you asking me to wake up? Powerful has 1 L btw 😅
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Justin, aheuvelink is right. Every DAC in the world (unless it's a NOS DAC) is upsampling/oversampling to do the same thing as HQPlayer just with less control and less power. There is no perfect solution because it would require infinite processing, but having more power and more taps for the processing can get closer and it's audibly better.
@jcee41
@jcee41 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound Yes agree those are the facts. Maybe something is lost in translation but I’m referring to the point in the beginning of the video where you say no information is added. I’m simply stating that information IS added via the upsampling algorithms. Again, somewhat pedantic but IMO worth mentioning. Thanks for responding to my comment!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
It's probably a point of semantics, but nothing is added. Think of it like a camera lens. The better camera lens (i.e. the higher/better upsampling) is focussing the sound better. The original samples are like the scene for the camera. In both cases, the starting data/scene is all we can work with, but the better it's focussed, the more resolving and true to life the end result is. Hopefully that makes sense.
@jaybrodnax
@jaybrodnax 11 ай бұрын
100% - great product, but the user experience design is nearly criminal. I suspect the developer is just extremely disinterested in user experience considerations. Your suggestions are spot on - have a few presets that are optimized for specific sound preferences would be low hanging fruit.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
That's probably a bit harsh to say the designer is disinterested. It's more likely that he's the kind of person that values the options and control over ease of use. Interface design and user experience are skillsets all of their own. I do agree that some simple presets or a basic vs advanced mode would be great though.
@jaybrodnax
@jaybrodnax 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound you are the nice guy around here, I'm just playing my part :) I say this as someone who manages a lot of software developers, especially those that are algorithm and backend oriented, many of them are literally not interested in user experience design as a topic. And so if they ever have to do anything related to it - it's bare minimum :) too boring!
@plumpudding2
@plumpudding2 11 ай бұрын
he added Roon compatibility, and since most serious audiophiles interested in a 300 dollar upsampling will probably be using Roon anyway why waste work on fixing the crappy built-in UI if Roon is already perfect? :D
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
That's a fair point, but having to run the player to access via Roon is still clunky (unless I'm missing something)
@plumpudding2
@plumpudding2 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound true, HQP is only an endpoint for Roon and you cannot change any settings except volume. It would be nice if filter/modulator/etc. Selection would also be possible through Roon
@ekjellgren
@ekjellgren 11 ай бұрын
So if I'm feeding my DAC through a NUC running ROCK I cannot use Hqplayer?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
You may be able to load HQPlayer onto the NUC, but I'm not sure. Maybe do a little searching and see what info pops up.
@ekjellgren
@ekjellgren 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I suspect I'll need to install Windows instead of Rock..
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yeah. I'm not sure if there's a Linux version available
@Cestmoi50
@Cestmoi50 11 ай бұрын
What would you advice for the chord qutest? pcm? (Or dsd but then it is pc for sure) I have the option of using ifi zen stream and NAA network transfer from hqplayer. The benefit of zen stream is, that it has a real clean usb output (or coax output). And the pc is not connected(so no noise transfer) directly to dac, the zen stream is. BTW top notch review as always, thanks!)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I'd run PCM to the Qutest as it's what the M-Scaler would feed it.
@DrJum
@DrJum 10 ай бұрын
PCM 192k 20 bit LNS15 Sinc-L via USB has been my best settings for Qutest after playing around for over a year. Good luck
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
Have you tried the closed-form-M, JumJum?
@neilsnyder7915
@neilsnyder7915 11 ай бұрын
A tough product review to do.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yes, it was a real challenge sifting through everything to work out where to focus the content and not create a four hour video!
@andycrook6508
@andycrook6508 11 ай бұрын
Got to minute 10. For me I need to know more about how to set up with a Mac, Qobus and a Qutest ( or similar) before I would consider taking this complex step further.
@mcdirt7838
@mcdirt7838 11 ай бұрын
I have been using HQP on a M1 Mac Mini and it doesn’t break a sweat upscaling to 705/768 PCM. From everything I have heard from advanced users, DSD is the way to go. To offload processing to a GPU, you need an NVIDIA GPU so I’m switching over to my i7 10900k + RTX3070 to try DSD and even that will probably not be good enough to do everything. I believe Qobus will output directly to HQP.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I haven't played around with Qobuz and HQPlayer without having Roon in between so I can't assist with that setup - sorry!
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 11 ай бұрын
I like a bit depth of 19 on the R26. Based on the specs I would not set it higher than 20 on the R26.
@cameronrector178
@cameronrector178 11 ай бұрын
15 actually
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
The OP was saying what they liked, not what the ENOB is
@cameronrector178
@cameronrector178 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound You can improve linearity and thus low level distortion significantly while improving SINAD, by using the correct bitdepth. 19 is not the correct bitdepth on the R26. 👍🏻
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 11 ай бұрын
Good to know. I will give 15 a shot. So far I am smitten with DSD direct DSD512 sinc-S ASDM7EC-super 512+fs@@cameronrector178
@b00m3rh4nd_sol
@b00m3rh4nd_sol 10 ай бұрын
After some more critical listening it is a moot point for me as DSD Direct + HQPlayer is so clearly superior to the R2R ladder DAC on the R26@@cameronrector178
@MrBazsi888
@MrBazsi888 7 ай бұрын
Audirvana?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 7 ай бұрын
Do you mean, can Audirvana interface with HQ Player? I'm not sure.
@valeriangelov2973
@valeriangelov2973 9 ай бұрын
Can someone show, what is the way to play some music on this big shit?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 9 ай бұрын
It's a bit clunky. You can open the HQPlayer software and then load your files into that or you can setup HQPlayer as an output from Roon and then configure HQPlayer (which also has to be open and running) to output to the DAC/streamer you're running
@wiseguy2600
@wiseguy2600 11 ай бұрын
Hi, I am on edge in getting the HQP. I need to know why you made the filters off on the SMSL? My VMV DAC doesn't have Filter OFF option. Was there a great difference between using HQP VS standard when you are using the SMSL DAC? Thanks
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
HQPlayer will still provide an improvement if the filters are on. Switching off the filters just prevents the DAC from messing with the signal after it comes from HQPlayer, but isn't strictly necessary. There's a slight improvement with the filters off vs on, but it's not a reason to avoid trying HQPlayer because you can always start with the trial version and listen for 30 minutes at a time until you decide if you like it and want to buy it.
@wiseguy2600
@wiseguy2600 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound so does going SDM bypasses this for people who do not have Filters OFF option? Assuming DSD isnt routed through the phase filters inside the DAC. Thanks
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
It will depend on the DAC chip used and options available. AKM DACs might have a DSD Direct mode which is ideal. However, of no such mode exists, PCM or SDM delivered results that are similar enough that I'd go with whichever you prefer. I think sticking with PCM is easier on PC resources if that helps at all too.
@gehtnurdurch
@gehtnurdurch 11 ай бұрын
I am not a mathematician so I can say nothing about the algorithms used, but I can not disagree more on the sound quality part. Compared to even a stock Hugo 2 (without M scaler) the filters provided by this program sound a lot worse to me, like not even comparable. Still enjoy your open minded approach to your videos though.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Depending on the filters chosen, it can definitely make the sound worse. That's proof of the impact of upsampling right there.
@nicktube3904
@nicktube3904 11 ай бұрын
Why not path 2: PC > SU-6 > HQP ?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Optical and SPDIF outputs/inputs don't support high sample rates so the SU-6 will only work via IIS for high sample rate audio.
@wric01
@wric01 11 ай бұрын
You'll be a believer once you tried comparing i2s vs noisy USB. HQPlayer made it as clean as i2s / cuts the usb noise via dsd transport even with cheap usb cabling.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Are you saying that HQPlayer removes noise from USB?
@MistaLova-Lova
@MistaLova-Lova 11 ай бұрын
I've not watched the full video yet but as much as I love your work in general, you don't seem to have a good understanding of the subject and you don't seem to have read the manual - you're talking about not knowing what the difference between sinc-M and Mx is whereas the manual explains that it's about fixed vs conversion ratio-dependent number of taps. When you do the calculation you'll see that they have the same number of taps at the 16x conversion rate that you tried them on. Hence you heard no difference! Multiply that by 512 (DSD512) which is the conversion rate I use (although I rarely use this filter, there's better ones) and the difference in taps is huge. I'll keep watching the video but it's disappointing that you don't seem to have done your research. EDIT: I have now watched the rest of the video. Whilst I appreciate that you're pointing out that this piece of software is not for everyone (it's not bug-free and some people will value plug-n-play over potential sound improvements), I don't think that you've done it justice, although everyone's experience is of course different and it's possible that your perception of changes in sound is different to mine. The reason why I'm saying that this review doesn't do it justice is that in my experience with Delta-Sigma DACs, the difference that HQPlayer brings in PCM (and its filters do make a difference) is nothing compared to what it does in DSD. I have not heard the SMSL DAC that you've got here, but having previously owned a Topping D90 (now I have a Gustard X26 Pro), the Topping was just not showing what HQPlayer is capable of, compared to the Gustard. And, technically speaking, my Gustard is far from perfect as it has ESS chips (two of them) which are known for still doing internal modulation even when fed DSD signal (hence volume control). An AKM DAC which offers DSD Direct and is well-designed (something like the Gustard A26) would be an even better choice to let HQPlayer shine. Or the Holo Audio May which has a separate DSD ladder - that would be interesting, in fact, being able to compare both PCM and DSD on a DAC like that. Why not use your R26 for DSD playback? However, even with that caveat, what HQPlayer in DSD mode does for my Gustard (which has a NOS mode for external filtering) is nothing short of spectacular. I bought this DAC after having owned a Topping D90 and Ares II and considered it better than either of those two even in its stock form, so I was a happy owner already. HQPlayer's filters in PCM mode made the experience smoother, more refined, but it wasn't until I switched over to DSD that things got eerily real (in a good way). What GoldenSound once described as "things simply are" (admittedly, when talking about Holo Audio), DSD got rid of digititis, the ever so irrirating feeling that I'm listening to sounds made up of Lego blocks, a decent reconstruction of the original signal but never quite tricking me into believing that I'm hearing real sounds. I believe that it's got a lot to do with extra space around each sound and holography, as opposed to depth as such - I used to only pay attention to depth when I started this hobby, not understanding what it means for sounds to appear as tactile, full-bodied, 3D, just "present". Speaking of depth vs holography - I have tried using the filter you've recommended (closed-form 16M) and it sounds poor to me. It sounds like the kind of sound I enjoyed at the beginning of this hobby, or the kind of "unoffensive" sound that I don't mind when I'm working out in the gym. But when I sit down at home with a pair of Focal Utopia or HE1000se, it's just too "polite". It's not harsh, and in this sense not as "digital-sounding" as some other filters, but it still feels like listening to a reconstruction of the digital signal as opposed to a musical performance. My settings are: PCM to DSD512, modulator: ASDM7EC-super, filters: poly-sinc-gauss-long, poly-sinc-gauss-xla and poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp. Another reason why I think you approached this review wrong is your assumption/preference/expectation that it's going to offer one solution (as in filter) that will be ideal for all genres. Whereas in my experience, as frustrating as it may be, the beauty of it lies in laying bare the fact that perfect does not exist and that digital filters are a game of trade-offs (time domain vs frequency domain, hence the statement that "the more taps = the better" is not true and HQPlayer allows you to experience that for yourself). I understand your disappointment because those were my initial feelings too when I discovered this software. But, firstly - it's not the software's fault that we can only approximate an ideal reconstruction given real-world limitations, and secondly, thankfully - HQPlayer does offer amazing filters that, especially on highly-revealing headphones - do transform the experience in a way whose significance can only be appreciated after one tries to go back after a few months. There is simply no going back. I recommend the gauss-xla filter to everyone who's looking for one that does everything right. Its timing and transient reconstruction are spectacular, at the same time it goes almost all the way to Nyquist so almost fully reconstructs the frequency domain. I also recommend trying the gauss-long filter as certain tracks sound better with it. It is shorter than -xla, therefore it trades a bit of space for a more intimate experience and even better immediacy/transients. It might actually be the preferred filter for those who like intimacy in their music listening. For big-sounding, grandiose experience (albeit with less-than-ideal transients), especially for classical/jazz music, I recommend trying Sinc-L and Sinc-Mx. They won't do so well in other genres, though. Try some well-mastered music from Logic's "No Pressure" album and then switch over to either of the above filters. In my system the difference is staggering. For high-res content, with the caveat of this being genuinely high-res content, not for instance MQA stuff which gets unfolded in Roon - try the gauss-hires-lp and experience how it affects the amount of breathing space that each instrument is given. Try for example Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon album, e.g. the "Time" track - play it using a long filter (e.g. Sinc-Mx) and then switch to gauss-hires-lp. The difference is stunning, isn't it? It's also worth trying that with Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories". I've just played with closed-form 16M, to pick "non-audiophile" tracks that people will be familiar with - play Justin Bieber's "Sorry" and Logic's "Dadbod" using this filter and then switch over to gauss-xla. Closed-form sounds two-dimensional (the depth is there, for sure, but holography is lacking" and "flat" in comparison, the Gauss filter transforms these tracks into a live organism vs a corpse which we're struggling to resuscitate (a bit of a harsh comparison, I know, but genuinely on the Utopia the difference is that big). I'll finish by saying that I've always loved my Focal Utopia but thought it was too-revealing in a way. Hence I used to consider getting a tube amplifier to try to mask some of the flaws, not knowing if it was the headphone itself or the source material. The HQPlayer has totally transformed my experience and only proved to me that the headphone has always been spectacular, it was simply letting through was I was feeding it (even the HE1000se is not as good at presenting the subtle differences). I can't wait to upgrade my DAC to one which will allow HQPlayer's modulation to be passed through untouched. I'm tempted to say: "I can't believe how things could say any better than this", but I've said it way too many times before to fall into this trap again. But to anyone thinking about upgrading from their Topping D90/Ares II level of DAC, in my opinion you'll be blown away by the Gustard X26 Pro fed DSD signal converted and upsampled by the HQPlayer.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I think you're the perfect example of the types of people who will love tweaking and playing with all the settings HQPlayer has to offer and that's great. As I stated clearly in the review, that's not me. I'm not interested in doing the calculations to understand what exactly is meant by some of the explanations in the manual. Neither of us is right or wrong. I'm just representative of a different type of listener.
@MistaLova-Lova
@MistaLova-Lova 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound Sure, that's fair enough in terms of your own preferences and expectations, I just don't think that this review did the software justice (especially when it comes to DSD where it shines), hence I felt the need to post the above comment. It's purely out of passion for this hobby, hoping that it brings at least one more person the kind of enjoyment that I stumbled upon when I discovered HQPlayer (although, admittedly, I was initially also put off by the number of choices I was presented with. But the patience has paid off big time). As for the calculations - if you're referring to my comments re Sinc-M and Mx, the manual actually expressly says that Sinc-M has one million taps and Sinc-Mx "one million taps at 16x PCM output rates". You stated in the review that you were using both at 768kHz, i.e. at 16x conversion rate, making them effectively the same. Not much calculation is needed here at all to see this, so like I've said - as much as I respect and appreciate your reviews in general, this was just poor preparation and/or research.
@mcdirt7838
@mcdirt7838 11 ай бұрын
Might have to look at getting an A26 to try this. Shame it doesn’t have a headphone amp. Just hope I can hear the difference with my 60yrs+ ears.
@mcdirt7838
@mcdirt7838 11 ай бұрын
@Mista - what headphone amp do you use with the Gustard?
@MistaLova-Lova
@MistaLova-Lova 11 ай бұрын
@@mcdirt7838 I use the Burson Soloist 3XP with the Supercharger and in power-amp (volume bypass) mode. With those two modifications it's great, much more full-bodied and holographic than the Topping A90 without any obvious trade-offs. Be sure to do some research online as there's been reports that the A26's firmware is faulty and some settings do not seem to get applied when you select them, which apparently includes the DSD Direct function (which is what on paper makes it a perfect companion for HQPlayer).
@dangerzone007
@dangerzone007 11 ай бұрын
Life wasn't meant to be easy
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Perhaps not, but that's why music is meant to be fun and relaxing 😉
@steverino5054
@steverino5054 4 ай бұрын
Seems too complicated and not designed well. Should have a wizard or something to make it far more user friendly.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 4 ай бұрын
Yes. A better interface would definitely make it more accessible, but the power of it is undeniable.
@user-fc1lx4zc9p
@user-fc1lx4zc9p 11 ай бұрын
Is there any decent 'poor man's M-Scalers' on the market?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
HQPlayer is really it as far as I know
@user-fc1lx4zc9p
@user-fc1lx4zc9p 10 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound I mean a hardware upscaler from
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 10 ай бұрын
Not that I'm aware of
@Audio_Revelations
@Audio_Revelations 11 ай бұрын
Predictive AI upsampling in the future... Say a song lacks high end then AI will try to fill in the gap for example a low res guitar sound compares it to higher resolution guitar sounds and then applies the improvements
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
That's an interesting idea. It's technically not upsampling and I'm not sure how it works know what's right vs wrong (i.e. sometimes low-res samples are used intentionally), but the concept is interesting. It's also worth noting that we currently don't understand how our brains extract the individual sounds of instruments from a complex waveform so it will be a while before we can teach AI to do this too. 🙂
@clintonlewis2547
@clintonlewis2547 2 ай бұрын
Way too complicated for me to play with. Seems more for those wanting to fiddle than people who just love to listen.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 ай бұрын
That's somewhat the case. It's something you can just do once (or anytime you rearrange your room/speakers), but there's no harm in not doing it if you're already enjoying the sound.
@nonchalantd
@nonchalantd 11 ай бұрын
!
@dangerzone007
@dangerzone007 11 ай бұрын
First world problems are a real bummer
@neilsnyder7915
@neilsnyder7915 11 ай бұрын
Im sure HQ player is a fantastic piece of software for the 14 people in the world that prefer tinkering endlessly rather than simply enjoying the music. My upsampling optimization took 3 minutes. Plug source into mScaler, plug mScaler into Chord Dave. and plug Dave into amp. Turn on....listen. brilliance without all the fuss. Voila
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yep, I agree on the M-Scaler. Admittedly it's not financially achievable for everyone though. 🙂
@HenrikNordberg
@HenrikNordberg 11 ай бұрын
In addition to those two groups of people (people who prefer to tinker vs. people who simple enjoy the music), there are us who enjoy tinkering for a while and then enjoy the music even more. If you are happy with the sound you are getting, perfect! No need to change.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Absolutely. Well said! And sometimes the desire to reach a certain sound quality without being able to buy an M-Scaler will motivate a bit of tinkering. (I'd still like a little less tinkering in HQPlayer though 😉)
@Rockapotamus91
@Rockapotamus91 11 ай бұрын
All that money just for very tiny improvements, kinda takes away the enjoyment of music when you’re always sitting and analysing the sound trying to justify it. Get a Mojo 2 or RME ADI and just be done with it, relax and enjoy your tunes.
@DJ_BROBOT
@DJ_BROBOT 11 ай бұрын
youre doubting it, and im not sure if you ever heard a good scaler done right, I told another guy below that they do work and its an audible difference. It's like the difference between using Tidal or Amazon music on regular mode comapared to the infinitely better 'exclusive mode' on your pc. Trust me, its not a small amount of difference...its akin to my using upsamplers on my portable rigs like Onkyo HF player and Uapp
@kingstoler
@kingstoler 11 ай бұрын
​@@DJ_BROBOTThere's zero difference. Any 'improvement' you're hearing can be chalked up to placebo.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
It's more than tiny improvements, Last Shelf. Once the settings are right, it's more significant than a good DAC upgrade (and far cheaper). I agree that it can get in the way of listening enjoyment if you have to constantly fiddle with settings, but my testing suggested that you can use the settings I've recommended and just get back to enjoying sound that's better than ever.
@thegass
@thegass 9 ай бұрын
You really believe in the audiofool mambo jambo you are talking?
@BloOdYJo17
@BloOdYJo17 11 ай бұрын
i still dont ear or understand the benefits .... pure snake oil
@gioponti6359
@gioponti6359 11 ай бұрын
rather the prior.
@DJ_BROBOT
@DJ_BROBOT 11 ай бұрын
thats false. A good upsampler will make your music sound night and day, I use several on my portable rigs and it's amazing (using Onkyo HF player and UaPP on android) . The thing is, you just cant 'turn on' a scaler. You have to make sure other connections within the signal chain within the app are right first too (such as adjusting DoP to PCM/Direct and standard PCM modes, plus turning off all 'Bit-perfect' options and scaling up to DSD level resolution from 44.1mhz). Trust me, with a bit of jiggling, you will hear a noticeable difference in sound.. Its like the difference between having regular mode on Amazon Music, Tidal and Quobuz and then turning 'exclusive mode' (on your PC) which makes the music pop and more vibrant
@Cestmoi50
@Cestmoi50 11 ай бұрын
Sjeezzs just listen, instead if judging, have you ever tried it? I mean seriously tried it with a decent dac and streamer. Yes I am very critical and hate snake oil, but this is not SNAKE oil. The either you don’t have decent equipment enough. But I can assure you with electro static speakers (martin logan) and decent dac I hear a big big difference, and everyone I let it hear.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Yep, there's no snake oil here - just mathematics.
@imosolar
@imosolar 11 ай бұрын
Snake oil is not Wilson Audio speakers and Hqplayer with Lampizator dac....
@lupoal4113
@lupoal4113 11 ай бұрын
fantastic job! thank you! ... now... could it be possible to have your opinion about HQplayer vs. the dsp integrated in Roon? ... feeding a R2R dac (no DSD), via digital-to-digital converter, with maximum possible frequency of 192kHz does the power coming with HQp make real benefit? my Roon run on dedicated NUC, so not a very powerful beast thks in advance :)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
I've not directly compare HQP and Roon, but having used Roon upsampling before, I've never heard it transform the sound like HQPlayer does.
@lupoal4113
@lupoal4113 11 ай бұрын
@@PassionforSound ... thks :) ... I will try then... even via NUC/Roon is not comfortable (you have to comletely restart the machine every 30 min)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 11 ай бұрын
Ouch! If Roon is already too much, HQP might might it burst into flames 🔥🚒☹️
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