4.3 The Heresies - Docetics & Marcionites: Denying Christ's Humanity

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4.3 The Heresies - Docetics & Marcionites: Denying Christ's Humanity | Way of the Fathers

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For the second heresy, Dr. Papandrea examines the opposite extreme from the first: these are the Docetics, including the most famous docetic teacher, Marcion and his followers. They concluded that Christ was a god, not necessarily different from the many other gods or demigods in the Greco-Roman pantheon, but that he was not really a human.
LINKS
For more information on Polycarp of Smyrna, listen to Mike Aquilina’s Episode 5: www.catholiccu...
To read Polycarp of Smyrna’s Letter to the Philippians: www.catholiccu...
To listen to Polycarp of Smyrna’s Letter to the Philippians: www.catholiccu...
For more information on Ignatius of Antioch, listen to Mike Aquilina’s Episode 4: www.catholiccu...
To read Ignatius of Antioch’s Letter to the Smyrnaeans: www.catholiccu...
To listen to Ignatius of Antioch’s Letters to the Smyrnaeans: www.catholiccu...
For more information on Irenaeus of Lyons, listen to Mike Aquilina’s Episode 10: www.catholiccu...
For more detail on the heresy of docetism and the Marcionites, see the book: Reading the Early Church Fathers: A History of the Early Church and the Development of Doctrine: sophiainstitut...
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To connect with Dr. James Papandrea, On KZfaq - The Original Church: / @theoriginalchurch
Join the Original Church Community on Locals: theoriginalchu...
Dr. Papandrea’s Homepage: www.jimpapandre...
Theme Music: Gaudeamus (Introit for the Feast of All Saints), sung by Jeff Ostrowski. Courtesy of Corpus Christi Watershed: www.ccwatershe...

Пікірлер: 12

@TheOriginalChurch 7 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching/listening everyone! For what it's worth, in case anyone is really interested in a deep dive into this topic, Tertullian also wrote a couple documents refuting docetism and the Marcionites. One is called "Against Marcion" and the other is "On the Flesh of Christ," which is an affirmation of the real humanity of Jesus. "Against Marcion" in particular is super long, but if you have lot of free time... ;^)

@JoshN91 7 ай бұрын

Thank you for this wonderful episode! Always appreciate the glimpse into our ancient faith.😊

@artifexdei3671 2 ай бұрын

this is really good.

@ash5033938337 7 ай бұрын

Thanks

@northeasttaiwan 7 ай бұрын

Loved it again Jim. I was hoping you would have time to get to the Nicolaitans. Do you think you may be able to fit those in in a future podcast?

@TheOriginalChurch 7 ай бұрын

Hi! Yes, I think at the end of ep 2 I may have promised that I would include them, but then I determined they actually go better with the later gnostics, which will be episode 5. So I will mention them there - But to be honest, we don't really know that much about the Nicolaitans, and so there is not a lot of material on them. They get blamed by some of the Church fathers as the "founders" of gnosticism in the same way that Simon Magus got blamed for docetism, but then pretty soon you've got adoptionists getting accused of Nicolatianism, too, which means it's not necessarily related to a particular christological heresy. I think that at the end of the day, the Nicolaitans are people claiming to be Christian, but living a lifestyle more like the pagan Romans (especially with regard to sexual morality), and so they become the examples of hedonism, and therefore they get lumped in with some of the gnostics. Eventually, though the ecclesiastical "crime" of Nicolaitanism comes to be defined as an abuse of office in which a bishop or priest has a mistress. But as far as what the Nicolaitans mentioned in the book of Revelation were actually doing or saying, I don't think anyone really knows.

@northeasttaiwan 7 ай бұрын

Your reply helps a-lot for now. I am preaching through 1 John these days and was looking as how to fit them in or should I leave them out.

@TheOriginalChurch 7 ай бұрын

@@northeasttaiwan I'm glad that helps - I think that the most you could say in the context of I John is that the people John refers to in Rev 2 MIGHT be a group that is one particular subset or example of the "antichrists" he mentions in the letter, who do not believe in the flesh of Christ (I John 4:2-3). For what it's worth, I do believe that the same person - the beloved disciple/apostle John - wrote the fourth gospel as well as both I John and the book of Revelation. I am open to the possibility of a different John's authorship for II and III John, mostly because of Polycarp, but at the end of the day, I don't really find the arguments for that convincing in any way that would be conclusive.

@trnslash 7 ай бұрын

@@TheOriginalChurch another great episode, I'm also glad to come across your channel as well, but i have to say this since you've turned off comments on your videos - Forza Napoli!

@TheOriginalChurch 7 ай бұрын

@@trnslash haha - thanks - but I'm very ecumenical: some of my best friends are Napoli fans!