44111 is better than 3333

Its a 3-10% damage difference between 44111 and 43311.

How is 44111 not easier to get than 43311?

0:38 The 43311 NO SET (Orange) is below the 44111 5Set (Black). Doesn't this mean that if you have 43311 without the 5 set bonus, it performs worse than 44111 with the 5 set bonus? So set does matter, right? So the correct recommendation is "Go for 43311 5Set, or 43311 2/2Set"? Eg. 43311 Aero 5 set or 43311 2 Aero, 2 ATK

@@SundayMatinee not possible to obtain 5 set 44111 without 2 set 43311.

exactly, electric characters have it the worse with only 2 3 costs right now, still haven't got a single violet bird with right set and element, but 2 flautist, and even when I get it with the item to secure it or god rng who knows how bad it will roll, with havoc mc I think is more viable because they get 32% elemental damage by themselves without including havoc set

They need to add a third 3 cost echo for the void thunder set. Most other sets have 3 echoes that can roll element which makes it easier to farm.

@@asoretI noticed that as well. For havoc mc I’m using atk% three cost and it’s still doing well.

All that hassle for 10% more damage on a good day.

Just buy electro DMG violet bird from that one event

The thing with Tenten's math is that he did not include substats into consideration when he made the graph. When both sets have a similar substat, the 44111 with set bonus actually closes the gap even further, see how the black graph curves upwards towards the end? That's the actual indication of 44111's relative gain. With full similar substats, the gap between two sets almost have a very negligible difference in power. The thing is that Tenten seems to have not taken into account the percentages from the character's inherent multipliers such as heavy, basic, resonance skill, and resonance libration, all of which have are additive to elemental bonus. I highly recommend checking out Maygi's video on the topic.

It's still wrong, we have 4 total 3 on elements with the next event (2rn) and they are not rare, if you go out and invest the time. I got more than I can roll on limited by echo xp and tuners. Then you have the fact, that substat rolls and chances are exactly the same across every piece, so obviously optimizing and gambling your 3 costs only happens AFTER you optimized your 4 and 1's which you have to do in BOTH setups. 3 costs without any significant substats already provide an insane dmg boost with no rng at all and no rerolling or anything.

@@dshearwf Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my comment, to reiterate, people only run 44111 because they don't have the on set pieces, you are guaranteed 3 cost on set for only one character from illusive realm but that's it, after that you'd need to genocide the map on the daily in hopes of getting an on-set with correct element piece, which is just not efficient to do prior to U40 for maxed databank. Or until tacet fields are actually worth the stamina.

​@@freewaytfI was so excited for this game but 5pc sets that are massively stronger than the 2pc and needing two on set elemental damage or er per character. I can already see myself quitting soon bc if this. Yinlin coming out is keeping me in but that farm doesn't seem fun at all. They dropped the ball with echos imo

@@freewaytf I mean... if you can't bring up 30min of your time actually playing the game, what do you even care what your echoes look like...? Also UL30 enables every possible drop, UL40 just adds a neglibible (by that point) amount of extra chance. I have hit the echo inventory cap multiple times and I spent 3hrs in the first 3 days playing and now I reduced my routine to 30mins a day and I literally swim in on set 3 costs. And tacet fields are the only source of echo xp rn. Like, where else can you spend stamina rn, outside of skill materials, which are extremely tame and also come from events..?

@@freewaytf He even says in the video that even off-set 3 cost echoes are better than on-set 4 + 1 so you don't have to worry about having that because the damage bonus from them is massive. And on top of that you can use 2 piece attack and 2 piece on-set.

He doesn't even get his own graph lol. Saying do rainbow set, but his own math shows 44111 on set is better

@@UnfairBandicoot No. 44111 5pc is only better than 43311 no set. If you have 44111 5pc, you automatically have 43311 2pc. Which will be better. Again, unless you literally don't have a single correct-element rank3 echo.

you should not 44111 even if you have the right set vs 2-2 set 43311 the ONLY time 44111 is better is if 44111 is right set and 43311 has absolutely no set which is never gonna be the case

You guys forgot that there is tacet field that not only give echo exp mats and tuner but it also drop 1 cost echo and 3 cost echo, and you can choose which tacet field that has echo with the set you need. There is also tracking system too if you don't want to waste your wave plates on tacet field (although I know it's impossible to not go to tacet field)

@@Zen-mc6yb That doesn't guarantee that you get a 3 cost of the right element on the right set, its even worse for electric characters that only have 2 echoes for that, so you either get those 2 perfect or nothing, keep waiting

Plus you get to save resources.

​@@rengayI don't think there's much of difference when it comes to that. Also switching from 44111 to 43311 and keeping the set is easier.

because the ATK echo is worthless in the long run, you would be wasting exp and tuners, the 44111 are 100% recyclable.

Every event will give you 2 guaranteed on-set, dmg% 3-cost echoes though, which is very nice. On top of that you can also just farm dmg& 3-costs every day which is also a luxery. I mean Genshin was also a game of patience and Wuthering will not be different. The goal shouldn't be to minmax a character as soon as possible, but to cleverly roll with the rng you get and see what you can build up over the course of time. Most of your struggles now will look silly a couple of months from now.

You still can play this like genshin farm with energy only and chill

Just go to tacet field that has the element set you need for your echo if you don't want to farm the overworld, it also drop echo not just the mats for echo.

its been a bit over a week genshin takes like 2 months for a set

@@SmugHomura wait so you say every illusive realm cycle will ALWAYS gives you two 3cost dmg bonus? is this confirm?

Havoc rover gets like 32% havoc damage by themselves, and other 4 stars a little too, plus future characters like yinlin also buff their element's damage, not sure if electro damage deepen counts as the same or not, but yeah probably I try to go more for 43311 for future characters, but don't want to switch rover

@@asoret Deepen is on top everything, even crit.

@@offnet6934 I see thank you

@@offnet6934 NO it isn't, crit is AFTER deepen damage. Crit is the last damage booster in the chain.

@@kazuviking Im pretty sure all number crunchers i checked were telling that deepen was last. Not that this do much difference in practice. What is important that it is separate multi.

Lol, Gacha went on a ramble and then said, Huh Seems same dmg to me 😂😂 (talking about his 44111)

Why would he reply. Gacha smacks is arguing apples. And Tenten thinks he is arguing apples but he is arguing oranges.

Those are really good setups, it was what Tenten was running at the early game where crit was still scarce. I assume it's not optimal though as diminishing returns function- you need a crit main stat to somewhat balance the cdmg and dmg% multipliers. 3/3/3/3 2 set is more versatile compared to 3/3/3/1/1 5 set. Keep in mind you need different echo types for it to count (electro doesn't even have 3 cost 3's), so triple 3 costs with the same element is actually harder to get than the traditional 4/3/3/1/1 5 set.

Same. Sometimes it's better to not overthink too much about stuff. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

@@earncredible yeah, I went with that cuz it just "felt" right.. well I did ready what characters scale off of.. so that helped me✌️

watch his previous video about beginner guide

They add in most cases. DMG deepen is on top everything. This is why Verina is so good.

name 1 content creator that says 44111 is better than 43311

@@xanzzz Gacha Smack

@@7CottonTail watch his video again

@@xanzzz Just did again, he keeps harping on crit but he's being very adverse to showing what the element dmg % looks like and how that factors in. Also harps on how cost effective it is to level 44111 echoes when it's the same cost to level 43311, while arguably leveling 1 cost echoes are even more resource costly for the returns it gives. And he says that it's more resource intensive to invest 43311 meanwhile he's +25 on all of his 44111. He's a really bad example of what you should be doing early game, mid game, and late game

Use what you get first, and 43311 no set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 44111 full set

Unfortunately it makes the assumption that the scale of all sides are equal. Which, is not necessarily true. Its true that a cube maximizes volume yes but that's only when the units of measurements are the same in each axis. The analogy actually fully falls apart because he assumes that the scales are the same but they are not. Yes it is better to diversify your damage bonuses generally but the argument that crit is always twice as expensive is wrong. Besides no one actually thinks 44111 is better its just an easy way for f2p players to get a decent power set faster.

Yep. This is something you learn in a lot of other games. The more outside multipliers, or "more" as we call them from PoE, the better your numbers.

You just made things click for me, I was trying to tell people why 44111 was worse from a damage AND resource investment perspective when I saw gacha smacks video on 44111. I had no clue why it was so easy for me to see and not for others and I'm not someone like TenTen who can work out the math to prove it and also explain it in a way that people who don't understand the math can still grasp. Turns out PoE has still infested my mind even though I haven't played in about a year (im taking a break to hype myself up for PoE2)

Based on the graph they're probably similar depending on how much investment you have. I'd assume 43311 is still better because you're more likely to be rearrange those pieces later on proper 43311 5 sets. But if you're not as concerned about that, then just choose which one has the better sub stats.

That's why they are usually wrong most of the time. Tenten literally has a video saying tc doesn't work in wuwa an here he is doing it lol.

​@@crowing3886Didn't he say that tier lists didn't matter in WuWa?

@@MrFirewassim he said that aswell. AFTER making 2 tier list prior lol.

@@crowing3886 never trust ANY content creator to keep their word, they're hypocrites till they die.

​@@MrFirewassim tier list doesn't matter because, it is what you want. Lingyang is bad but i dont care, i build him and he's gopd enough to clear most contents. You want more damage? Sure follow tier list and get the meta characters.

It's very sweaty because it's goofy to farm this in early game which we are all in.

damn it's just a game that ur supposed to take ur time to enjoy and relax, not a school home work.. xD

@@VanillaQT you can for sure but when you are using math in other aspects of your life, why won't you use it here too? It's not that people who don't care about optimization should do this, it is for people who do care about it.

@@crowing3886 I meant the math used, not the farming. The farming is very sweaty indeed.

tenten did not show that 44111 is 10% worse than 43311 and way way easier to farm. Only electro and havoc tho.

(This is what I learned from what he said) Since you'll be running atk on 1 1 1. Go for Crit Rate since value for atk will diminish.

For me it is crit rate, because default crit rate so low (if i remember it is 5%, in case you don't have any crit rate subs). And you have 150% cdm. And with tenten explaination of volume, it is better to maximize everyside of your elemental dmg, atk & crit But ATK% as just as good because it is RAW dmg, you dont have to face bullshit RNG. Idk the calculations. Someone on yt has the spreadsheet explaining the dmg differences on mainstat of echoes.

​@@bimantoro17default crit dmg is 50%, default crit multiplier is 150% which is what is shown in stats. Go in game to the sta tool tip and it tells you this is the multiplier for crit dmg, not the amount you have. Or just crit something and see it only does 50% more dmg than a non crit. You don't get an extra 100% crit dmg in this game it just shows the multiplier instead of the crit dmg.

crit since atk% scales with base atk and since that number is low rn, it does not scale well atm.

we out here grinding echoes and this dude out here grinding youtube money with a 13 minute video which could've easily been less than 5 minutes. What an absolute waste of breath.

Summarize it 😂

​@@DrDemolitionMf will say this, but when he makes a 1 min video they will say. "Uhm, it's too short, I don't understand"

Get ready for an overemotional and hyperdefensive Gacha Smack rebuttal to this video where he will call this CC "lil pup" and himself a "big dog"

@@SM-oc4rcyall appear so butthurt over anything that don’t even concern you lol. Let grown men have their exchange, not that deep.

hi jinx

Ok but like, if I have a 22% crit, I’m only landing that damage 1/5th of the time. Where a double crit setup you’d land more crits early game. Not to mention, trying to farm on set right main stat 3 cost dmg pieces while also rolling good subs is super hard unless u get lucky

​@@Xailei_from what I heard elemental damage is in the same multiplier as crit damage so you are basically getting crit damage without needing to crit which is better than crit rate which only gives you a chance to crit.

⁠@@joby419early on in the game , the 4 costs may outdmg 3 costs cuz people may just farm it more and get better substats but as u upgrade 3 costs the gap will widen by alot through event 3 costs selections etc

@@Xailei_ I think you missed some points in the video. On the 3 cost echos, the substats literally dont matter. The damage you gain from main stat alone is better and at a cheaper cost than if you were to min max your substats in the 44111 setup. Assuming you are talking about having 2 crit chance 4 costs, hitting a crit at a 44% chance is still worse than always hitting 60% harder.I'm not a mathematician so i might be wrong but you would need 100% crit chance and 210% crit damage to do the same amount of damage that 60% elemental damage gives you. To get that amount of crit and crit damage on your subs is EXPENSIVE as hell.

@@Axrul ok so explain to me how farming 2 on set mainstat 3 costs, are easier to farm than two crit 4 cost? No one is arguing that 44-1 does more damage than 433. It’s just WAY easier to farm and u can build more characters faster with it. To then transition to 433 late game. It really isn’t that hard to understand. I have done the overworld farming every single day since launch, and have only gotten 5-7 on set on element 3 cost pieces, that mind u, ALL rolled ass sub stats. Decided to swap to 441 and I now have all my main dps and sub dps/suppors with a 70/200+ crit ratio and cleared both sides of the experienental zone(excluding the middle) running 441. It’s a matter of convenience and saving time for the early to mid game. Yes, 433 does more damage, but it’s WAY harder to farm. Even if u check the graph, running a 441 and an offset 433, 441 was higher in damage. So even by ur own argument, 441 is better or on par with an offset 433. It’s just that the 441 is easier and faster to get.

It is 2 set & 2 set right?

@@bimantoro17 yes it is. 2 set & 2 set

For me after this video i try to get 43311 even i dont have 5 set, cause raw 60% elemental dmg is better than some 40% CR & 200ish CDM. But you do you bro. Don't be so stressful cause to try min maxing everything in the game.

😂😂😂😂 ikr

that argument makes no sense? the 3 costs are already better just by leveling and equipping them, no matter what you roll on their substats. ANY crit roll you stumble upon them will significantly boost their already high value, while 1 costs are literal trash. %atk is the weakest stat on a character without much levels and without a 5 star weapon (%atk is only calculated from char atk+wep atk). So, the only thing you have to do is get out and invest that hour or what making use of your daily respawns. They are not that rare, that you will never get a single one just to equip it. It's simply not, I farm my 3 cost elite mobs every day for like 30min and I got more on element 3 costs rn that I can even roll on with the given exp resources. And we get another 2 selectors with the event next few days. So by this point you should have 4, which means two carries fully equipped without any amount of rng.

⁠​⁠@@dshearwfI completely get this I know 3 costs are better its getting the right main stat that’s screwing me over. It’s around a 10 percent chance to get the main stat you want and even less if that 3 cost echoes can appear in multiple different set effects. I’m aware of the guaranteed 3 cost echoes we have gotten and are getting very soon and I use them even tho they rolled poorly. I probably didn’t word my last message the best but basically I meant to say running a 44111 can allow a character to be used in a team more quickly than if I spent time farming for the correct main stat on the correct set for another character. To go back to my other point I’ve been farming for 3 cost echoes for calcharo for about 4 days with no luck and it’s a bit more difficult compared to other elements since the electro set only has 2 elite class mobs compared to other sets that have 3 and sometimes 4. It’s rng and at this point it’s just a me problem since by now you would think I found a piece but it just hasn’t happened. TLDR: you are right, but 44111 imo is faster to build and put on a team while you work towards getting those 3 cost echoes.

@@dshearwfI just wanna reiterate that this is a me problem with my rng being garbage combined w the fact that electro set only has two 3 cost echoes to farm. Every other character I have been working on I have been able to get them a functioning 43311 with significantly less effort than the amount I’m putting into calcharo.

@@tricky_caramel1588 Yea, I mean that tldr checks out, still, I feel like it's a waste of echo xp, which is the true bottle neck and you'll reach a point, where you think about every single xp thingie you wasted, because you still lose 25% xp by recycling them. Everybody should have 1-2 main carries built by now and that's also all you need rn and there is no time pressure to build anything, especially not building anything sloppy and half baked when it comes to valuable echo xp.

@@tricky_caramel1588 If you feel cursed by rng, I can just further implore you to really think about what characters you want to build and how well planned and organized you want to do that. echo xp is a really big problem which you can't overcome with effort, unlike getting 3 costs (kinda, having a friendlist helps as well). Investing in a subpar setup is something you should consider well. And I know the deal with electros, I play calcharro and still prefarm for Yinlin. It is what it is. The problem only goes away, if you start chipping away at it :p

You don't have to, that why they bumping the rewards and optimizing rewards in general

@@Why_AreYou The selector doesn't guarantee good stats tho. It could turn out to be a useless piece. Even if it's not it's only for one character. The problem is two things. 5pc and the fact we need two element damage on right set. In other games your allowed one off piece and only need one elemental damage which makes farming much more flexible. Also in other games the 2pc 2pc is much more viable than it is here. The 5pc sets are too strong and with all the possibilities of damage and er, att, Def, hp on the 3pcs then the sub stat rng, I don't see it feeling good even if they give us two free 3 pc every event

@@Bdog4114 That's why they bumping the rewards for tacit fields I believe. Also like Tenten explained in video most of the times it's better to just use off piece elemntal bonus than going for crit even on correct set. Also Like i really don't understand this reasoning, like you'll are willing to run sub optimal double crit echo which even with perfect rolls barely competes with dmg% with only half decent stats, but you'll seem to be hell bent on 5- piece bonus, like dude just drop it. I do get that 5-piece bonus is good that's why it exists but 2-2 is still pretty gud

@@Why_AreYou I never said double crit was better than element damage. I said the 5pc and 3 cost echo system sucks. 2 2 is so much worse than 5pc. Take havoc for example. Your trading 30 element damage on the 5 pc for 10 attack if you went 2pc 2pc. Then let's count the supports. You need to run them on 5pc to get the outro buff otherwise you'll looking 35 percent attack. 10 er for supports are nothing. So in a team of 3. Running all characters with 5pc nets you 30 elemental damage and 35 attack. Vs 2pc 2pc which gives you none of that. The echo system is not balenced well and extremely not flexible. I don't know how more rewards will fix that part of it.

if it helps you, there is a pity for farming 4 and 3 costs. Considering you’re out of the weekly 15 counts of 90% enhanced drop rate, here’s how it goes: This is considering nothing dropped for you on the first few runs. Every 2nd encounter, an overlord/calamity echo is guaranteed to drop. However, pity between those two classes do not share. If you farm calamity, it’s for that class only, and vice versa. For 3 costs (elite class), every 4TH encounter is guaranteed to drop. Now, this is, again, considering nothing dropped on the first 3 you did. The chances/rates of drop and rarity still applies per the data bank. You could still get one before the 2nd/4th drop (depending on class), and that’s what will make it tedious, on top of that, with no guarantee of gold rarity every single time. And last but not the least, some people don’t keep track how many they killed, much more so, count every time in your head how much more you need to do. That’s why to combat this, farm two types of echoes in the same class, that way one of them you can guarantee. What do I mean by that? Say you’re farming for 3 cost echoes with havoc bonus and sonata. Farm two types at once. Dreadmane (the wolf) and those stupid Tambourinists (that I don’t have havoc bonus on and less than 10 of em are in the map on a given 24 hr real time cycle). That way, you can keep farming for dreadmane and if 3 kills in a row, nothing drops, you can hunt a Tambourinist for the guaranteed drop. If you think your luck is off that day, you can even kill anything in between the dreadmanes to technically “build that pity”, whatever elite class echo you see on your way to hunting the wolves. If they drop, it’s just unlucky. Whatever, right? After all, that’s gacha game for you. Take your time, pace yourself cuz if not, that’s how you burnout and lose interest in the game.

@@Z-r0grav1ty yeah tried to build pity but is the same as with anything. Like trying to build pity in a genshin banner is a bad choice. Is just better to roll on the banner you want the character. No use going out of your way to build pity. Is just better to farm multiple worlds and go straight for what you want.

But thanks for taking the time and explaining it. Anyone reading will get some info.

Yep, it is what he seems to forget. The vast majority of players ain't gonna do all that shit (yet) nor are most players even UL30 to begin with yet. He is out of touch to the extreme and has forgot not everyone plays the game as a job.

u lose 60% elemental dmg when u run 44111 vs 43311. At high investment 44111 will never be better if u assume each echo has the same substats. In addition dmg bonus like heavy atk etc doesnt scale like elemental dmg bonus. Elemental dmg bonus will give direct increases in dmg so if u do 100 dmg normally, 40% elemental dmg bonus will give you 140 dmg as the end result heavy atk etc dmg bonus increases the multiplier of the said skill by the amount u have. So if u have skill with a 30% multiplier and u have 10% skill dmg bonus the skill will now have a 33% multiplier. so dmg bonus like that is only as good the multiplier of the skill. But the argument becomes irrelevant when u realize that those stats can be on your elemental dmg bonus echos as well. If i do 100dmg a with 30% multiplier then 10%skill dmg bonus will let me do 103dmg but if i have 40% elemental dmg bonus i will now do 144 dmg. Having as much crit rate and crit dmg will always be something to aim for but the loss from not having the that 100%+ elemental dmg is gonna be huge and someone with 50% crit 213crit dmg on 43311 will do more dmg than you despite having 75% crit and 213 crit dmg on a 44111 and even if you traded a crit rate piece for crit dmg u would still do less dmg

@@DelosLogicc Oh i see i thought it was the same thing but for specific skill ok then thanks

Fighting monsters are literally why you play the game. Lmao. Just farm it if you need the stats. Stop when you're tired. The problem with people nowadays is they want everything fast without sweat then complain when they have nothing to do. Lmao

​@@Vizible213 costs drop like every 4 monster kill and its a 50/50 chance for it to be 5 star or 4 star, only for it to be the wrong set or the wrong mainstat and THEN have shitty substat

@@Vizible21 I mean it's not an issue for me I'm already UL 40 did 100% of the map and farm the game daily But for a VERY BIG portion of the player base that's just unrealistic, a lot of people have actual lives and they can't really play more than 2-3 hours a day Those same people won't care or really notice if their character hits like 15% less as long as they clear content comfortably

Obviously slapping 2 4 costs on your monsters is probably easier than getting 2 good 3-costs. But why are you actually jumping between 2 bosses farming them, and not just clearing the map of the 3 costs? I think the issue is when you are actively trying to farm better 4 costs for the 44111. 44111 should be a place holder, meaning as soon as you get the 2nd 4 cost crit/crit damage you just slap it on and call it a day; you dont try to optimize the obviously worse echo setup. You slap the 2 4 costs on, and start clearing the map everyday with your time; not jumping between 2 bosses with that time. You shouldnt be trying to optimize the worst setup. Get the two 4's, slap them on, focus on getting 3's from that point forward.

@@TheDestructodave520 I completely agree Just saying that getting decent 4 costs is going to be much easier for a lot of people

% ofcuz

The issue is actively spending your limited time optimizing a worse setup. What I mean is, great you got your two 4 cost crit echoes; leave it at that. Dont spend every day trying to farm better 4-cost echoes. Spend that time clearing all the 3 costs instead, because that is the better setup. Dont waste your resources, namely time, on the worse build. 44111 should be a placeholder at best, meaning just slap 2 crit ones on and move on to killing 3 costs until you get the correct 3 costs. You cant really complain about 3-cost issues if you arent farming them and you are wasting your farming time on 4 costs.

Of course aiming for 43311 is the main goal, and I cleared out 3 stars cost pretty much everyday and still no luck! I don't recall saying that you should actively farming for 44111, if you want some quick and comfortable build, you should go for 44111 but to be stronger, 43311 still better in term of damage!

It is 50% more damage if you have a baseline of 150cd. You're doing 150% of your damage. Not 150% more damage.

it's the same as genshin, but they decided to show it weirdly in the UI: The base 150% refers to a 50% crit bonus. so you have 5%crit and 50%cd, just like a naked genshin char. %atk also works exactly like in genshin, so it's a much weaker stat without many character levels and a 5 star weapon, so it's actually twice dumb, because it's literally the weakest stat of an underdeveloped character.

Check the comment I said on the video, the math doesn’t lie bro😭😂

did you not see what he said about that in the video? crit is too expensive and inefficient to priotize over other variables

Writing a comment without watching the whole video.

​@@mostmediocre2887it's not expensive if you don't actually HAVE the mainstat...he literally says that would be the only reason 44 would be better. How can you say watch the video yet not watch all of it? 😂

I think the biggest argument against this is that even badly rolled % dmg echoes are just better. As in, the first glacio/electro/whatever 3 cost you pick up and level is simply better regardless of the sub-stats most of the time. The sticking point here is "right echoes." I have a bad feeling people mean well rolled echoes, and instead of farming 3 costs at all, they are spending way too much time optimizing 4 costs and chain killing 2 bosses over and over when thats a much worse play than just going out and killing all the 3 costs.