I have the base game already. And I can confirm that this is definitely a game you want your friend to buy so you can experience the game on his dime. I can't counter anything you said. It's the world's most expensive version of Pandemic. It is a good game, not a great game. And the expansions will not elevate it to great. So why did I spend a stupid amount of money on another Pandemic? 1. It's the world's best gateway game. If Monopoly and clue is your idea of a good time...this is the game I would bring out to show you the possibilities of modern board gaming. And it's never failed to impress friends and family alike. My family loves it, my co-workers came over and played this and it blew their minds. Because pandemic is a great entry level game and adding the presentation of the app and the tower just makes for the greatest argument ever that you should give modern board gaming a chance. It's my most requested game from non-gamers. 2. I'm old enough and American enough to remember the old Dark tower fondly and wanted some of that nostalgia back. I used to pass the original tower around with my cousins in their basement many years ago, and this new version brings back that sense of kid-like wonder every time I table it. 3. The game is so streamlined anyone can learn this in ten minutes or less. Setup and takedown are a breeze, and even with alliances there is very little overhead to get through as the tower and the app do the heavy lifting for you. Sometimes after a long day you just want an adventure, a fun experience, but you don't have the energy for gloomhaven. This is a really fun experience that takes very little effort to table. Well that's all I got for you. I couldn't think of 5. But they were the three reasons that were good enough for me to hit the back button. I'm lucky enough that I have the money to spend on this ostentatious board game. But I could easily understand if you want to save $110 and just get Pandemic Fall of Rome and then come over to my place to try out the Dark Tower.

I own the Original Dark Tower - and i own Return to Dark Tower - you will never see me sell either one ever! - If you think it's to pricey than stay away, otherwise put your money down and get ready to enjoy a damn good experience.

You mean you want me to roll boring dice for skulls when I can have a tower from hell spitting them out?

"I like to consider the thematics of a game as well as the mechanics" That is basically everything about a game. Theme + mechanics

Bought it yesterday at Pax Unplugged con in Philly. It is freaking awesome. Love it. I have all the expansions except the upcoming Covenant. We played 5 games this weekend and we couldn’t get enough. My only gripe…3 AA batteries which got sucked dry in about 3 games. Buy a battery charger with 6 aa’s. This game is truly amazing and I can’t wait for the expansion.

Despite prime age, I never knew about 1981 Dark Tower, I didn't back RtDT, and after the wave of videos I bought it at full Ebay tax while drowning in other stupidly pricy games. Those are my bias factors. Now that I have played it, I do feel it is a really cool niche element of the hobby that is so much more than it looks to be. The tower and the app are doing great things. Here is series of quick thoughts... While keeping it fully a board game (not a video game) RtDT leverages the app to have adjusting card text depending on many factors. Theoretically you could do this via paper, but you would either have tons of decks (choose A, draw deck E, choose M, draw deck Z2, choose...) or you would have cards that are full of spoilers that would be hard not to see the results of choices. Besides the list of choices, the digital cards/decks (mostly monsters) change over time as threat grows. Theme does a lot of lifting in RtDT as similar mechanics elsewhere would not be the same. The setup variability is pretty good and not theoretical-- its like Marvel United where there are endless ways to do very similar resource things, but who/what it is doing them, in what order, and with what random X/Y/Z in play do matter to the feel of a RtDT session. The value is not stretch goals but in very important expansions/bling that only theoretically are available outside of a pledge manager. You could have tables tell you what to do instead of a tower skull drop, but having the tower do it without a player or table in control has a... feel. I've had players wince or jump each time they dropped a skull into the tower; it is no die roll. The ongoing development of the app is pretty neat from basic wording clarifications to adding in quarantined (ie not effecting the default mode) play options. I think the "monsters don't matter/ give reward" misses the mark--they can be everything from resource collection farms to game ending surprise attacks. You just don't get 20 gold, 12 xp, or whatever for them; you get (or lose) resources you see in other parts of the game (potions, warriors, spirit, or just still having a village in the North). At its heart RtDT is a resource game (like most co-ops), but with a really mysterious ("fun") hidden element running this fantasy romp instead of the players. I think that hidden element can hurt perception too as it's not so overt as a paper counterpart about what paths were or were not tread (ie what did, didn't, couldn't, or was JUST about to... happen). The game is like a 'best of' on mechanics as so many parts remind me of games X or Y. Basically, I am sorry to report, RtDT is worth a very, VERY serious look. The feel at the table, is not like what it may seem like it would be like. I guess it's maybe like talking about why tandem sky diving would not be scary, but then feeling very different when you are looking out an open door. The professional strapped to you suddenly doesn't matter beyond the fact he is about to throw you out of the plane and nothing feels like you thought it would before your toes were pointed at the last few inches between metal and a long drop. RtDT is not skydiving, but it's not what it looks like in videos or descriptions either... IF you are the type to enjoy the Ameritrash, digitally enhanced ride rather than dissect game design like balancing a checkbook (which is fine and also not fine at times too). It's unique. It's niche. Know thyself and then pass or back.

It's not a phase mom! I'm in love with this game and I want to spend the rest of my life with it!

Your points are all good and valid and likely useful for someone who is truly torn about whether or not to buy the game. But as someone who went "all in" on the original kickstarter, I can at least say that for me personally, I don't regret buying it. Not only is it the best gateway game hands down, but even my more experienced playgroup will want to get it out to scratch that fantasy itch without setting up all of Gloomhaven. Because the app keeps track of plays, I actually know I've played the game 39 times between my different friends and family since release. I don't know if "Cost per play" is something you want to consider about a game, but the amount of time I've put in has justified the cost to me. Also, part of what I like about games is that I still get to "play with toys" but with purpose! Good video! Not gonna lie, I clicked on it to see how you were going to dump on one of my favorite games, but your explanation makes a lot of sense and I do appreciate challenging a possible impulse buy.

Return to Dark Tower is my most played game this year (17 plays so far) and people in my play groups constantly request to play this. I absolutely love this game. I'm not going to claim its the best designed game ever, but its FUN! So much fun that the new expansion was an instant back for me. The price is rough though, and while the price does feel high for the new expansion especially, it's still a better back for me since I know it will get played alot, instead of the other stuff I back or buy and never even play.

it's a game you play on the app and later remember there's a plastic tower on your table for nearly no reason.

A friend owns this and I've play about half-dozen times at 4 players...and we've never won. Which is fine, I like the co-op puzzle aspect of figuring out the sweet spot, but the main thing I've come away with is that despite the fact you have all these monsters... they're all really the same. The combat against a lich, I mean Lemure, is the same as the widowmaker spiders--you pick cards, likely spend warriors, maybe an advantage, and that's it. There's no "acid attack" or "surprise attack" or "you have to roll because this monster is so terrifying and if you fail, you lose sanity." It's just... cards, and warriors, and advantages. (I guess one could say the same thing about dice-based combat, that the mechanics are all the same.) But really, echoing your comment about "one premium element"--there's no flavor text with the monsters, no backstory for the heroes, no real effort the thematcally in game play distinguish one combat from another. I'm glad I'm not the one who backed this! (And I say this after having painted all the Heroes and Horde minis for him!)

Some points not covered basic board game ... Quality of product from kick start to version 2, present day. Only real difference between the versions are, 1, rule amendment 4 skulls removedinstead of 3 for destoryed building. Was too easy. 2, hero's and buildings in a lighter grey and ink washedto high light detail. They were darker grey/ black which required a light dry brush to bring out detail. Quality of the game is very obvious to board gamers. The box is a rich persons ornament of joy on the shelf. It's its own focal point. Best box design i can think of. Internal corners reinforced taped that wont deteriate over time. Figures are detailed with no signs of flash. The double-sided cards and tokens are high quality perfection and robust for gamer get togethers. Even the internal compartments have been given deep thought and sturdy quality pieces, not miss shaped poorly weak moulded temp excuses forholding components. The normally throw away transparent lids for transport are now detailed, adding to quality with embossed game related patterns. The loose scrap of paper that acompanies most games is actually quality thick paper/ card here, which reminds you how to store your components. Each part has been thought through to hold all in place in good condition. I loved the orginal back in the day. Many a great memory. Now lets see if time treats the return to dark tower in the same memorably way, must play again and again, or if in todays society it becomes a shelf sitting ornament. Not for every one, Game good, but expensive by board game prices. Design and quality far exceed many. You get what you pay for. In this case, if you have the money, you wont be disappointed in this modern board game.

I've backed a ton of games already and I think I'll be happy with most of them, but I'm glad there are people to slow my roll sometimes. Forums help much of the time, but there aren't a lot of videos that counter the hype, so thanks for that. Fomo is brutal.

I have the game. I bought it because I loved the original and it was actually one of the games i had put a recommendation on their website to restore. I love the game! I’ve had a couple plays (solo) and hoping to play it with my buddy soon. Just a couple comments to your video: 1) The no bins thing. I’m not sure you really need a lot of bins. The box came with all the vacuum molded plastic for storage and the stuff is relatively easy to pull out. Most of the playing pieces are cards and the skulls (theres only 20 at a time). All other plastics like your players and the monsters are on the board or sitting in the box. Its better than if you compare it to Jaws of the Lion. 2) You mentioned about getting gear from monsters. I see this in some games and not others and honestly, i see this issue as a video game issue. Monsters aren’t about getting loot. Like why would you find a Uber powerful sword in a 50’ monster that just maybe swings a tree as a weapon? I mean maybe you want to cut that monsters tooth out or skin its forearm to make a sword, but really I don’t see a need to be rewarded with “phat loots” when you kill a monster. thats just me though, and I recognize your opinion as i have also backed Wild Assent and play Monster Hunter for that reason. Ive never seen your videos before and now I will subscribe because i really enjoyed it. Keep up the great work!

The 130 Dollar shipping killed my interest for good.

Reason 1 to back: The tower thingy makes for good "runthrough" and video content for stream-creators like you! :). Will that content ever make as much as the game costs? Well, no...but you have this tower! And it's black! And once you have a black tower you...um...:)

Mine is on it's way soon... Meh... It seems like fun... and I had the original (still do, but it doesn't work so well...need to do some repair work...)...So, there ya go... and I got the expansion with the figures, so I may be painting minis again...

My #1 not to back reason is "Huge thing in the middle of the table that you can't see around". Play any other board game, put a lamp in the middle of the table and see if it improves the experience.

Finally! One of the nostalgia IPs that I had 0 knowledge of until the first campaign. No feeling like I'm neglecting my inner child by not buying into this. The concept and the tower itself interests me purely on an electronics/mechanical level, but your comparison to Pandemic is a good one. Speaking of alternatives, there's actually a game coming out soon, The Spill, which has a tower that you use to distribute dice into sectors (representing the oil you are attempting to contain). It's got the same cooperative putting out fires vibe, has variable player roles, AND it's available for preorder at Miniature Market for $35 USD. Yes, the theme isn't medieval fantasy, but The Spill and Pandemic are definitely bargain options compared to RtDT, especially if there's no nostalgia pulling you in.

I own the game, that I bought just recently. And just like you said, I was going to pledge for the base game only, but find out I was able to get it cheaper through a local store. This is what I did. :) I really enjoy the game so far! But I do agree that for the gameplay, it’s over priced. That said, its my +$200 game that get out on the table then most from all my others +$200 games. One point I don’t agree with you it’s on the rewards from battles. I found it really thematic as your goal is to lower the cards strength until it gives you something in return, and this is how you get your rewards for a battle. I really like that system. Anyway, great video :)

I have had a blast playing this game, and glad I got it. I also have the original. I am debating about backing the expansion since this will not hit the table much and I know I will be able to get it later.

I am so happy with my copy of the base game. I really like cooperative games. Playing pandemic or Atlantis rising you start to hate the deck of cards that punishes you. Here you have this giant tower to fear and hate.

If you don't know anyone who has this I'm not that far from the city, like a hour east, I'd bring it to you to try if you wanted. It's honestly pretty good but not without it's warts I think. I agree with the need for token trays, some things do feel a little cheap (don't get me started on the plastic tokens for the price paid). This follow up campaign I'm less than impressed with so far but I do feel the need to make sure that I have everything for it...even if I never use it past the base game...haha. Honestly I want the expansion for the heroes and more treasure cards alone. I really think the app could be massaged into an absolute beautiful piece of malevolent violence but as is...it's kind of a dumb random event generator that can screw you over by complete chance. Also we play it with a big turntable and it's pretty much necessary as far as I'm concerned lol

Love it! Give us new video about KSes or we will go and buy ALLL!

well, you just saved me 300$ plus shipping and VAT to Europe XD saving that for my Essen budget now :)

It’s so weird that I’m old enough to still have the original Survive (Escape from Atlantis) 1982 edition and remember going to the OG Star Wars trilogy as they came out in theaters, but this original Dark Tower game doesn’t ring a single bell. It was totally off my radar until Isaac Childres brought it up in the last Frosthaven update but I think I’m still really not that tempted.

Good comments, but it could be a more focused 5 minute video. The first 5 minutes can really be summed up in one sentence.

always love your vids dude

Great vid! Your pandemic comment killed all my hype and got me thinking more analytically. Thanks!

This is a great game. Really fun, not too complex, awesome minis. Lots of replay ability. Could be a gateway game for many kids.

I've been on the fence about this game, but you have convinced me not to. Thanks for doing the research. Subscribed!

Yes. don't spend $150 $190 on a good board game if it's out of your price range, That advice should hold to everything in your life. I find the price is fair for what you are getting in regards to research, develpment of the tower, lights, sounds, application, and it not being producded by a massive corp like Milton Bradley that would get premium bulk discounts on produciton/materials etc. The campaign itself states it's a recreation of a game that was memorable because of it's tower, so yes the entire draw is the tower. That part they nailed, and also managed to make the game decent. A bonus to an expensive tower that yells, lights up, spits skulls, and uses a tablet. It will keep your children (mine are 9) interested in playing. So we plus grandpa play every weekend when he stops by, and alot of over this summer . What is helpful for me with such large board game purchaes is watching entire playthroughs on KZfaq, if you get through a couple and you're as pumped after as when you first saw the game pull the trigger, otherwise don't.

1) We're in a recession. 2) Have you seen the interest rate increases? 3) And there are going to be even more rate increases! 4) I'm not made of money. 5) Who are we kidding, there is just other stuff upcoming I'd rather buy, such as Project Ironwood table.

I had the original game and I was really hoping that the new one would be similar. But having read everything about this new version, I passed on the price and the fact that it uses an app. In a few short years, it'll lose that support and become unplayable.

On the retail aspect, dark tower is essentially sold out of retail stores. Also, while it’s cheaper on the backer kit that their website the huge draw for those new to purchasing is the expansion / play at. Right now the expansion goes for $150+ on eBay with the minis expansion also around that price. The playmat is also absurdly high. So for those who missed out on the first kickstart and were even remotely interested in the game, the backer kit should be an instant buy and honestly upgrade to the full package. But I completely agree it’s terrible marketing and also downright shady to not include pledge unlocks. The reward structure now is nonexistent as their “reveals” of gameplay are all things they should tell the consumer regardless of the pledge amount. It’s extremely stupid.

Good that I took the core game on first KS was cheaper... I think you should add like you don't need the expansion and just play the core game if you already have it and not try to take everythink like I'm doing (just 55$... no? just other 45$ for shipping plus VAT... gosh)

When it rains it pours eh? Hope you enjoyed your 5-Reasons break! :)

16:50. I feel like you're incorrect about your statement about killing monsters. 1. You get 2 spirits for killing them so you don't get "nothing" for fighting them. You can make the argument that you also get 2 spirits for other actions you can take besides fighting but it's not nothing for your effort. 2. If you spend your advantages in combat and completely downgrade the battle cards (levels 1 and 2 monsters) you will usually get warriors, spirits, or gears for your effort on top of the two spirits per battle. 3. Killing monsters prevents them from doing negative actions later in the game periodically. Whether taking your warriors, stealing your gear, adding skills to buildings (potentially game ending if you have a low supply of skulls), putting corruptions on players, etc. Also, the longer any type of creature is on the board the stronger they get and the harder they are to kill without damage and the worse the effect the cause.

Hey CG great vid and all, but I really think you're missing an opportunity for some quality content. You should start doing 5 reasons you should back ___. I would have loved a Spicify episode. Do a deep dive into Fabio's mission and motivation. Maybe with a small interview? This is what the gaming community needs

I actually find the new expansion obscenely overpriced for what's in it, especially compared to literally everything else I own from the first campaign. I'm getting it but I'm in for more money than I was expecting considering I had an all in before.

Interesting that the 6s are much more descriptive. Look at the average rating for the original game and you'll see a similar trend.

The #1 reason to get this game it that if you want to try to find an original working Dark Tower on eBay, you're going to end up paying $300 for it anyway. You might as well spend the money on a modern remake with all the bells and whistles.

You’ve convinced me, I won’t be getting this expensive toy. Appreciate you putting this out.

Another reason: app dependency...

I’m not backing. Just doesn’t look like something that interests me.

This game would be a great value at 400$ There are alot more game that are way more money. Really the pandemic is a reason.

Yo im a fan. Didnt they just have this kcikstarter? Its happening again? Also, three ads? You are an ok guy. I’ll watch with the ad in the beginning. But i think i’m going to start watching without ads.

Are you hiding in a hotel, Mr George?

Another one of the "5 reasons I am not allowed to have fun" series...

None of these points really bothered me, except when you said it's like Pandemic. If it's like Pandemic, then I won't like it. Now I have to decide if $400 all in is worth a game I don't like...pfffffff. Damn you. This is good, though. I need to keep believing it's like Pandemic! Yes. The last thing I need is a Pandemic that beeps and boops at me.

Glad I don't need to convince you not to get it.

If you didn't back this game, then you're missing out on one of the best games EVER.

Thankfully there is a virtual app for the original Dark Tower game. Return to Dark Tower is not worthy of the name and a rip off for a lame table ornament.

5 reasons why you should return your wallet instead of returning to Dark Tower

For someone that still plays the original, I really WANT to back this. But you really don't get much for the price in my opinion.

talking about a fiddly game. I have the orignal "stop thief" game and this one looks far worse.