Excellent! No question buying a laser is a pretty big commitment so take your time and investigate what fits your needs. If there are things you’d like to see related to the Muse or lasers in general. I’d be happy to put videos together. If it helps you it will help others.

Thanks. As a side note, the biggest gripe I hear about lasers is related to support. I've heard horror stories about the Muse, Glowforge, and pretty much every other laser when users need support. Fortunately most lasers seem pretty robust, but you might run into some early out-of-the-box issues that need to be worked out. Lasers are delicate instruments, not toasters, so they require a little TLC.

Nice endorsement, and thanks for joining the channel

Excellent news and welcome to the channel. Hopefully you used my FSL coupon code to save a bit of money. I started with my first laser with the exact same intent as you, but it accidentally turned into a side business, so be careful! When I got the Muse recently I got a lot busier 😀. You’ll figure out the materials - watch a couple of the videos I did. Start with cardboard since it’s free. Anyway. Have fun with it as if you need help you can always post here on the channel.

Thanks Jesse. The pace of videos has been noted and I have been focusing on eliminating a lot of fluff in videos and cutting straight to the issues.

🤗 I don’t think it’s much of a concern really. I am definitely a tinkerer so I just don’t need a support person to walk me through something but they will if you need them to

Interesting - I don't find FSL videos all that useful either. I agree with your statement about testing for sure. I think the big concern is what happens after your laser leaves their building. Freight carriers aren't always the easiest on "fragile" items and it was my biggest worry to open the box and find a shattered laser tube. If I can do anything to help with problems feel free to reach out. I don't work for FSL in any way, but if we are focused on a building community we can all help each other.

Exactly, my wife and I ordered a muse 3D with camera, received the unit, no camera. Customer support was quick to reply to our problem, so that's good.

@@dthomas2253 Well that's a bit worrisome. Was there no camera or they sent you the wrong model? How did they resolve this? (i.e. did you have to return the unit or did support walk you through a repair?)

@@SteveG-mc3rw they were prepping another unit and we are to send ours back minus the accessories like cooling box and such.

@@SteveG-mc3rw there was no camera installed but we had ordered one with a camera

@Terrie West Welcome to the channel. First let me state that regardless of the laser you ultimately buy, ventilation is exactly the same. With either the GF or the Muse you will need to buy a fume extractor if you can't vent the laser outside. In both cases this will cost about $1000 for the additional unit and will have on-going running costs to replace filters. Also note that depending what material you are using, fume extractors may not actually work that well, though things like glass won't produce any smell at all It is by far easier cheaper to vent directly outside if you can. If you are in a situation where you have to open a window for the vent pipe, then your first project will need to be a board with a 4" hole that you can jam in the window and pass the vent pipe through - 2" foam insulation is cheap and easy to cut into any shape by hand and that would work well too. If you are worried about things crawling in, then you can buy a dryer vent from your local hardware store, which will prevent this, but if you are only putting the vent pipe through the window while your laser is in use then I wouldn't worry about this at all. I wouldn't worry about particles collecting outside since what gets vented isn't like saw dust, but rather tiny/microscopic particles. In the case of most materials what ends up being vented is fumes rather than dust. These are good questions to ask, but again, to be clear, this will be the same no matter whose name is on your laser. Ventilation is important to get rid of the fumes that result from burning off material, but it isn't really visible dust.

Yes definitely SVGs will work fine. Most people convert SVG files to PDFs but you don’t have to

Hmm. Sorry to hear about your problems. There does seem to be some change at the company in the past 18 months that isn't positive.

Oh no, I just bought one and saw great reviews from a year or two ago. Hope mine isn't a lemon :(

@@baronjutter how did your machine turn out?

Really if you are just engraving wood, then save yourself a ton of money and just buy a diode laser. Any of the high-end xTool, Ortur or Atezr laser would be perfect for this. If you do want a CO2 laser for business then something like a Thunder laser. I haven't been keeping too much track of FSL lately, though I still have and use my Muse 3D - mostly for rotary work these days.

if you are having accuracy issues in the corners then you might want to do an alignment. Sounds like it might be out a bit. You definitely shouldn't have bubbles in the tube. You could try draining the system and refiling it to try to get rid of any airlock. Regarding buying and support in Canada, you shouldn't have any issues. That's where I live and it works for me 😉 Epilog's are sweet hardware but yes, you definitely pay for it.

Thanks for the feedback Mike. Our experiences with the Muse 3D seem to be aligned. It's a big expense and lots of people want to hear positives stories as well as negative to help make what is a big decision

What's the main thing you've sold?

Does is line up exactly? I’m trying to do contour cutting and I need it to be exact.

Hi Gary, Thanks the comment and I’ll try to provide my opinions as honestly as possible. First, realize that it is entirely possible that a Glowforge is the perfect laser for you, and there are definitely some solid reasons to buy one. But I will say that while support is pretty important, buy your laser for the right reasons, which are usually more related to technical features and your particular use case. With those thoughts in mind let me try to answer some of your questions. 1. Yes the GF Pro has a pass through, and the Muse has the ability to remove the bottom of your laser to get the same effect, so they are mostly comparable from the hardware side. I’m not sure how “automatic” this is on a GF since there really isn’t any additional hardware to support this, but the software support for this is most likely better than the Muse, since doing this on an FSL with their software isn’t really doable in any automatic way. Any time I do something like this on my Muse 3D I will do my cut on the first half, then move the material and re-scan the workspace and final reset the starting point for the next cut by setting the laser home position and continuing. It’s not really too difficult with either laser, though I’d give the nod to GF on this simply for better software. 2. Regarding cameras, the Muse 3D definitely has a better camera, using the Intel true 3D technology which allows it to determine depth for less distortion and better focusing - and it’s attached to the laser output rather than being centered in the lid like the GF, which means better alignment for large items and no distortion around the edges caused by one ultra-wide angle camera. However it does mean that you have to move the laser around when scanning the workspace for material and you do rely on the software to stitch 9 images together properly 3. Regarding engraving, something to keep in mind is that both lasers in all likelihood use exactly the same CO2 720mm laser tubes and that’s where all the business happens. In principle that means there will be no difference. However, the Muse 3D does provide a few more settings for things, which gives you more options, but does have a side-effect of allowing you to make more mistakes - at least until you get comfortable with settings and materials. If you want to do fine engraving then the FSL may have an advantage since you can swap lens from the default 2” (same as GF) down to a 1.5”, which reduces the laser kerf dramatically, allowing for much finer work. I’m going to do a photo engraving video soon that will talk a bit about some of the engraving features so subscribe and watch for that coming soon. 4. More engraving :-). Both lasers have great support for layers. The FSL of course provides more settings. Keep in mind there are two realities that you’re asking about. First if you have a greyscale image you will use raster features and “print” like you would on a printer. However there is also vector engraving (etching) where you draw a shape and fill it in. Both GF and Muse would be pretty much identical from a quality perspective in either case. I’ve done a couple of material videos that touch on this - try this one kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jM2ofrqprdSyeGw.html or this one kzfaq.info/get/bejne/brJdndZ21MfOoKc.html 5. Regarding material thickness, since both the Muse and GF are in the 40-45W CO2 laser range and they will both cut about 6-7mm in a single pass depending on the material (and settings of course). Doing multiple passes will let you cut deeper but that may not work for some materials (e.g. leather which will likely just get scorched on the edges). Cutting height and cutting depth aren’t the same and if I can knock GF on something it would be around their dubious marketing materials. I would love to see a GF cut through a 1/2” of anything, though it is entirely possible to put a 1/2” thick piece of wood in either laser and engrave a 1/4” deep. This has nothing to with the manufacturer but rather the limits of physics for CO2 lasers. It’s all about power and in the case of Boss their basic laser is 50W and upgradable to 70W, which would probably get through 1/2” with a couple of passes. 6. Cost. Yup the GF is cheaper - mostly because it’s made of a lot of plastic. The Muse like all FSL lasers is a steel case which is far more solid. In general the FSL products are more geared toward industrial applications while the GF is aimed at first time home users. Most of the laser you mention, except the GF are entry level industrial laser, so we’re comparing apples and oranges a bit. Note the FSL also makes the PS20-Pro laser which is a little over $5K and is more like the Boss or Epilog lasers. If I ever bought a second FSL for high volume work it would probably be one of these. With respect to your comment about attachments keep in mind that out of the box the the GF and the Muse 3D are roughly equivalent but the FSL lasers allow you to add features (e.g. a rotary cutter or longer lenses) where the GF does not. Your statement made that sound like a disadvantage for FSL, though for basic laser work you need no options. Importantly though you CAN buy them for a Muse, which is not an option at all for the GF. 7. With respect to software my laser took one update right after I powered it up, which took about 10 minutes to download and install. I believe FSL does updates roughly quarterly but they’d be better to answer that. FWIW the GF will also update the software on the laser directly (not everything is in the cloud with a GF). When compared to the GF, the FSL software definitely has more bells and whistles. Keep in mind the GF is aimed at new users who don’t really want to deviate from the line, so the comparison really isn’t a good one. If all you want to do is upload an item and cut it, then either laser will require about the same skill level. But you want to do anything more advanced, the GF could show some weakness for more advanced projects. 8. Service with FSL has been great for me and yes I’ve talked to them a couple of times. FWIW I’ve seen lots of people complaining about GF and ever other laser manufacturer just about as often. Lasers are complicated and support is a must. I personally think a lot of the complaints about lasers in general come from people thinking that they are just a simple appliance and that isn’t the case with any of them. However the question I have is, if you are calling GF support then you already have a GF, so why are you asking questions about the Muse?? :-)

@@SteveMakesEverything I don't currently own a laser. I am looking at making my first purchase. I have done a great deal of design for CNC layouts and they seem to sit in the same wheel house for design. I have been considering many lasers and trying to find the best one for my household. I myself will be using it for wood work and some possible acrylic pieces. My wife is interested in using it to cut fabrics for her crafts. For me the 3D engraving is the most important thing. While standard engrave is fine for some things I want the ability to create layered 3D designs without having to constantly glue the pieces together. While I know it can't do detailed 3D sculpture in the way a CNC can. A CNC can't give me the hard interior corners the way a laser cutter can. I was going to buy a boss because for the $6000 price tag and it can cut 3/4" wood. Unfortunately it is terrible for 3D engraving. Its laser and software are designed specially for cutting. The glowforge has something specific about the laser and the detail it can do so that is what made me start looking at it. However the shallow bed was a concern. Because of this I started to look at other lasers. I found the dermal but it is significantly more than the glowforge with a lower power laser than the pro and still had the issue of the shallow bed. That led me to looking at the muse. The muse has the advantage of the open bed to do large objects but the 2D seemed to be built to compete with the plus not the pro given its lower power laser. The 3D seemed to be in line with the pro once you paid for the upgrades but then it was $1000 more than the pro. Other than the open bed that is on all of the models I didn't see any reason for it to cost that much more. If it is simply the metal case that too me doesn't justify it as this isn't going to be moved around. It will sit in one place and won't be in any danger of being dropped or other issues that might warrant a harder case. The glowforge does have the advantage of letting my kids easily make things but that is secondary to my primary needs. I considered paying up for the muse titan but that puts me in epilog territory. While the titan has an incredible bed for cutting and a 75w base laser it is pricy and takes up a lot of space for a first time purchase that is 2K more than the "desktop" solutions I have been looking at. I appreciate the information. I am still torn on what I want to do. I have contacted Muse to try and get the rest of my questions answered. Price wise they did say by contacting the sales team directly they can get the price down to $6000. That makes the price far more reasonable in comparison to the glowforge pro (assuming that includes the upgraded laser). If you think of anything else please let me know and I will post here or do a video on what ever product I end up going with.

@@Gray_Falcon If your budget is in the >$6K range there are lots of options and many of the ones you mentioned are viable. If you're looking at the Titan then you clearly want a large footprint, though like the Muse 3D you'll end up either getting a Riser or putting it up on blocks and removing the bottom. If you need more height than a 1" or so then the GF is definitely not what you want. It has a passthrough but that doesn't change the overall height. Any of the FSL PS series will have a passthrough and generally larger footprint, but Boss, Epilog, and numerous others would also fit.

@@Gray_Falcon I'd love to know what you decided. 😁

@@cjdearden I went with the glowforge Pro. I called FSL about the Muse 3D and they spent more time talking down glowforge than telling me about what the product could do. It was like pulling teeth to get the information I wanted. Most of the information they said about the glowforge was incorrect. Basically lying to get a sale. The sales person quoted me a price that was more than $1000 over the glowforge pro. The Muse 3D has a lower powered laser so you have to pay up to get the equivalent 45w. When I spoke with sales they did offer to waive that cost but that still put it over a $1000 more than the final price of the glowforge pro. They offered to call me back to match or beat the glowforge pro price with shipping. I agreed to this and they never contacted me back. In all the research I did it seems every KZfaqr and most people on reddit had an issue with broken parts out of the box. Some of them had trouble getting replacement parts or entire units for weeks. While I have no doubt the Muse 3D is a good machine when it works, other than a few pricy modifications and attachments it doesn't do anything different than the glowforge pro for the base unit. Many of those things the Muse 3D does worse. Most of this is because the glowforge invests a lot into the software. If you want to engrave cups or other round things the Muse is going to be better with the extra attachment (nearly $900 extra). You can buy third party for less but I don't know how easy it is to get them to properly work with the FSL machines. For doing longer pieces of material the Glowforge Pro is better as the laser self aligns after the material is moved (Muse 3D requires manual alignment). In the end FSL might be a better buy but you get far more value out of your dollar on a glowforge than any other laser until you start getting into the $10k+ price. While yes the Glowforge Pro does need to always be connected it helps more than it hurts the product. Also if I have my phone I can always connect it to that. If glowforge where to go under I expect they would release the software to all existing users so they could run it locally. Some people have already figured out how to do that (currently it isn't an easy process and outside of glowforge's support). If you have any other questions I will be happy to answer them. If you decide to get a glowforge you can get $100-500 off with a referral link (depending on the model) and you also help support the person who provided the link. This link is given to anyone who buys a glowforge. Here is mine if you don't have someone already in mind for this. glowforge.us/r/TRZGUAJG

I still have my Muse but it is mostly limited to rotary work now. My 90W laser deals with all the heavy lifting. I might actually sell my Muse so maybe someone else can put it to better use.

You can import a project from Inkscape pretty easily but there's nothing like a print driver that you can invoke from the Inkscape side. I don't think this is really a big issue though because you still need to position material on the laser anyway. The lack of support for Lightburn is a business choice that I honestly wish they hadn't made. RE3 is adequate but for advanced users, Lightburn offers much better capability.

@@SteveMakesEverything Thanks and after watching many videos I totally agree with you on the LightBurn, if there other product have them, why the Muse not. Well, at least they support Mac natively, something that big guys like Epilog don’t…a great tool for creatives and they don't support Mac natively, well, I can't understand that. Thanks and looking forward more videos. 👍🏼

@@wilmercb If there are topics you would like to see covered, send me email or post a comment. I want to make sure I'm covering the things people want to understand

I have no doubt. I’ve had a few big jobs where the Titan would have made life much easier

In the FSL laser world, the software you need (Retina Engrave 3) is built into your laser. This of course means that your laser needs to be powered up to setup and layout your designs, but it you are using illustrator then you would typically do everything there and just drop an SVG file into RE3 and set the power/speed. You can connect your laser to you local network and then reach it from a web browser on your computer. Realistically you will probably still want your laser to get to to the open internet because FSL will push software updates from time-to-time, but unlike a Glowforge, your laser isn't a brick without the internet attachment. Don't sweat the differences between the Hobby and the 3D. Everything the 3D offers is really just a nice-to-have rather than providing some compelling feature that will limit you on the Hobby. Of course things like autofocus and a single Coolbox are sweet features, but you can live without them.

@@SteveMakesEverything Thanks for the reply, I was just a little confused when so many people were talking about no internet needed. But yes, I'll be dropping all the art R3 from Illustrator. I did buy the coolbox as well as the riser and rotary tool, however, those last two items are on backorder, patiently waiting to get it all up and running. But being my 1st ever laser, i'm just getting to know the machine and all the functions. Happy New Year.

@@katiberwald3643 Well I do a lot of videos on the Muse 3d laser as well as RE3 so keep watching. Cheers!

I definitely agree that they should support Lightburn and I’ve asked several times. RE3 is ok but not early as powerful as LB. I never design in RE3 either. Note however that you should still be able to import PNG and SVG files. The muse mechanics are great, but they should really just stop trying to be their own thing since it provides no real additional customer value. I’m actually tempted to rip the controller out of my Muse and replace it with a Ruida board.

@@SteveMakesEverything Wow that would be cool! Be sure to do videos on that, my machine is LONG out of warranty and so is an intriguing idea!

A good question, but no. A 40-45W laser can engrave ceramic tile nicely but for cutting you'd need something. lot more powerful

The Muse is a bit quieter than the GF

Nice. 😀 FWIW I don't have anything against the Glowforge hardware. All of my issues relate to their software and how they try to lock you in and/or potentially put your data at risk.

As long as you have a place where you can hang the vent pipe out a window you will be fine. You can also augment the internal fan with an external inline 4" fan you can pick up from Amazon for about $30. You will probably also want to replace the actual vent pipe provided because it's honestly not that good. In my set up video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qceSdMWCytq6eJc.html) I updated the description to include links to these. You can also get the venting at your local hardware store (Vinyl venting is fine for this since there's no heat and it is totally sealed pipe). For the most part though if you are cutting normal materials (i.e. wood, acrylic, leather) any smell coming off of it generally isn't hazardous.

@@SteveMakesEverything thanks for the info! What are your honest thoughts on the loudness of the machine? What would you personally compare it to?

@@barkerhnh Well it's not quiet, but it isn't too noisy either. The circulation pump and air pump (i.e. The Cool Box) are where all the noise comes from. Kind of like a loud sewing machine, except it runs when the laser is engraving. It shouldn't bother your neighbours though, and if the laser was in a room with the door closed you probably wouldn't hear it. For reference when I record videos where I'm actually standing at the laser I usually have my microphone place on top of the laser right beside the cool box. It certainly doesn't drown out my microphone.

@@SteveMakesEverything thanks for the info!

@@barkerhnh It's a pleasure - and welcome to the channel. 😀

Any 40-45W laser will struggle with 1/4" plywood (especially hardware store plywood) but 1/4" acrylic isn't much of an issue and 1/8" is a breeze. If you want to cut 1/4" then make sure you get a 2.5" lens rather than a 2" because the region where the beam is focused is better.

@@SteveMakesEverything Thanks Steve! I didn’t realize the lens length would make so much of a difference. It might be worth the extra money to get a nicer lens then.

@@haileesmith5391 Keep in mind that there is no free lunch. The longer lens will reduce overall detail since the focus area is also not as tight as it would be for a 2" lens. It's not significant but if you want perfect fine detail for engraving then the 2" lens is better. This is more of an impact for raster image engraving

@@SteveMakesEverything would it be possible to buy both lenses, and switch out when I want to cut 1/4" plywood? Or would that be a huge pain?

In concept it is possible to switch controllers for sure. Once my new laser is running I'm considering this as a project for my Muse 3D. My new laser will be running Lightburn for sure

If you are using continuous focus it will follow the contour of odd shaped objects. This price you pay for this though is greatly reduced speed.

@@SteveMakesEverything Ok thank you Steve. But I hear conflicting assessments of this...I guess it works but just not real well? Even FSL, when I've talked with them downplay it. So if you take this out of the equation I'm not sure its worth the extra 2-3k above the core? Maybe they will have a release at some point that is much improved on this. To me its a deal breaker in a way.

@@weboflies999 Yes if this is your only reason for buying a Muse with camera then you'll be disappointed. As noted, to use it, you need to go very slow - to the point of pain. I don't use continuous focus for this reason and it honestly seems kind of gimmicky to me.

@@weboflies999 Repeating my response since KZfaq appears to have lost it. As I noted, continuous focus requires very slow speeds so it is probably impractical for many people, and it has limited use for engraving on things with unusual surfaces. Certainly if this feature was your sole reason for considering a Muse 3D over a laser without a camera, then you'd probably be disappointed. However if you regular engrave on uneven surfaces then it is a critical feature. While I love the camera for material positioning etc, I rarely use it for continuous focus and probably would seek it out if I was buying another laser. For my camera use case a $20 webcam would suffice rather than an expensive Intel 3D camera.

Thanks for sharing. I’ve become a bit disillusioned with FSL support and many other companies as well but it’s always good to get feedback in case someone else asks. I can’t believe how bad customer support is becoming in this industry. Maybe I should start my own support company😈

@@SteveMakesEverything I would support that from the people I talk to you it seems like it’s industrywide. We could use some good people in the industry!

I only every cut acrylic on my laser. Too many materials have undesirable chemicals or produce toxic fumes. A decent external exhaust fan should be assumed essential for any laser.

FSL does regular updates and if your laser is connected to the internet you will get them automatically. If you are asking about the sound level of a CO2 laser then I can say there are several fans that run all the time and when the laser is on you additionally get. the pump running and the air system to keep the cutting area on the material clean. It's not going to wake up your neighbors but any CO2 laser is far from silent. There are certainly quieter fans and pumps that can be used though since almost everything on most lasers is some sort of off-the-shelf part. Your fan question is a common one. The internal exhaust fan in most lasers will keep the laser clear but aren't really great for pushing exhaust out of a long exhaust pipe. I use an external fan on my Muse 3D to provide that extra push and it is quite effective.

@@SteveMakesEverything Thanks Steve , so using the inline 6 inch fan , do you turn off the Muse fans and is it less quiet than or is the Water pump the loudest part ? Comparing to the Glowforge sound.

@@coalakida You can leave the internal exhaust fan running since it's key to keeping the laser clear. Just add your inline fan in the output pipe. The noisiest thing in the laser when it's running is probably the air compressor. Like most laser companies, FSL uses a middle of the road compressor that doesn't give much consideration to noise. You could certainly replace it with a quieter and higher flow compressor if you needed to. The compressor I put in my own SP-3624 DYI laser move 3x as much air and makes about half the noise. In either case it is quieter than a Glowforge. This laser is focused no entry level users and strives for a single standalone unit without the need for an external water pump and compressor. It's a laudable goal but this means they need to dissipate much more heat from inside the laser . To achieve this they added a couple of large and very loud fans, making it the GF a fairly noisy box.

@@SteveMakesEverything maybe a Video on how to quiet the Muse 3D and compare to the Glowforge as so many of us run it in the kitchen table , lol

@@coalakida I can add it to the list, though this video would require quite a bit of thought. You must have one sturdy kitchen table (and one really forgiving spouse) 😀

It less that the smoke produced cutting plywood but it smells pretty bad

I don’t have any connection to FSL so I’m not sure what I can do to help. I would wonder why it is broken out of the box though. Did the shipper drop it?

@@SteveMakesEverything It was shipped from Nevada to Maryland so anything could have happened I guess... there is no visible damage that I can see anywhere but it simply will not boot up. It seems to me like a bad power supply but I can't get anywhere with their support. They just tell me that a manager will reach out to me. I have been so patient with them but it's getting crazy! Lol I just want to laser some stuff

@@MrJordanbradley Well good luck getting it fixed quickly. You could take a multimeter and check to see if there is DC voltage getting to the board (This is all under the right side panel), and FSL is probably going to make you do this anyway to help them diagnose the issue.

I bought my Muse3D direct from Full Spectrum Laser

Maybe you could make a video on how to purchase an install the camera

I don’t understand. The camera is included and preinstalled for both the Muse3D and the Glowforge

Oh, I thought you had a 3-D camera you installed

@@RussellRay Nope, that's one of the reasons why a Muse 3D is measurably more expensive that the lower version or something like a Glowforge.

Both are very good lasers and you should regret neither choice

@@SteveMakesEverything thank you

There are a number of ways to avoid charring on material. First adjusting to the power to the right level to just cut through your material. Second, you can mask the material so that any charring ends up on the masking rather than the material. BTW, If you have specific "newbie" questions then this is the right channel for you. If you are wondering then others will as well, so it's a great opportunity for a video to help everyone. Feel free to shoot me an email with any questions of this type.

Not sure what bugs you are referring to, but they regularly update the software

Go with your instincts. There are many laser companies out there and one will make the right laser for you.

No, do you have a link?

There are other groups with multiple who were impacted. The details are absolutely nuts.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7N7n8djlqyRdIE.html

Sad that you assume I dismiss the Glowforge - I don't. As noted I have friends who own them and love them (and yes I have tried them too). They are fine machines for many, but won't handle the constant commercial traffic that I put my laser through. Today for example had my laser grinding away non-stop on a 6 hour job to engrave a large marble plaque so I could have a job finished for tomorrow. There is simply not enough cooling capacity in a Glowforge to handle a job this big, but that doesn't mean there aren't a million other things for which the Glowforge is perfectly suited. As noted in this video one place the Glowforge destroys the Muse is by providing a set of starter projects. This is a fantastic way to help new users leap ahead and I certainly wasn't shy is calling that out in the video. You do realize that both the Glowforge and Muse are CO2 lasers, right? In fact you will find very few internal difference in the hardware (except for perhaps external cooling and a top mounted touch panel). I would venture that both lasers use the exact same 40W or 45W laser tube, stepper motors, linear rails etc. There is a huge difference in the software and operation though - the Glowforge is very much focused (not pun intended) at first time users and I see nothing wrong with that, but that isn't me. I would love to compare these to popular lasers head-to-head, though I'm not really in the business of starting religious wars over lasers. Both are fine and both indeed have strengths and weaknesses. If you own a Glowforge then you are miles ahead of many who long to own any laser - enjoy that rush. My interest is more focused on building a community to help all laser users and potential laser buyers. Where possible I try to do videos that will apply to all laser owners and when necessary I have to call out specifics for the Muse because I definitely do appreciate that not everyone will own one of these. :-)