I'm an amateur jazz musician. I often think jazz is like an inside game for the musicians to have a blast together playing, but that is really difficult for most listeners to find a way into as listeners. Obviously playing funkier, more straightforward and simple forms makes it more fun for many audiences.

1. it sounds complicated 1:24 2. mostly it's instrumental 4:31 3. too many dudes... 7:10 4. often acoustic... 8:46 5. jazz musicians are nerds 10:22 6. songs are long 14:01 7. people are dumber than they used to be 15:21

Seven reasons to Love Jazz: Art Blakey - Moanin' Hank Mobley - Soul Station Horace Silver - Song For My Father John Coltrane - Blue Train McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy Miles Davis - Kind of Blue Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus

My fundamental problem with Jazz is that the musicians are having more fun than the audience.

I like the atmosphere jazz creates in a club/bar. I listen to jazz records and I zone out. Is it just me?

The problem with a lot of Jazz is where the musicians chops and knowledge of music theory have reached such a level that they feel compelled to showcase it at every opportunity. It can be exhilarating to watch live but on record it sounds, ironically a bit "one note".

I recommend watching on x2 speed

Jazz is my favorite genre of music..i grew up on punk, thrash, rap, and grunge.. and I hated Jazz..but as I got older it took me on a ride and helped out tremendously with my anxiety and depression.

4 minutes in and my point is proven with long winded explanation to a easy answer. Jazz musicians love to hear themselves talk

I wish I liked jazz, but I've never been able to. It's difficult for me to put my finger on it, but there are a few things I believe just turn me off. First of all, some instruments featured frequently in jazz, like trumpet and sax, tend to emphasize bright timbres and high notes throughout a piece. For me, those qualities are best left to special moments in a song to create variety. When blared at me constantly, they just drive me nuts and lose any emotional value. To me, that's like yelling. It's okay to yell at times, but if someone does it all the time, I just want them to shut the hell up. :-) Another big problem for me is that I just don't like swing very much. I certainly like rhythmic diversity, and I know jazz has a good amount of that. But swing just doesn't create any value for me unless it's used in a very strategic and limited fashion. Another issue may be song form. I don't need ABA or anything particularly predictable, but for me, jazz songs often don't give me an enjoyable feeling of progression. Flow is often broken by soloing periods designed to show off musicianship. It makes me concentrate more on the performer than on the composition and story. There are things I like in jazz. I do like many of the chord colors used, and I enjoy listening to non-jazz music that utilizes jazz harmonies, especially without jazz progressions, "licks" and rhythms.

wow almost everyone in this comment section seems to really, really hate jazz. I don't get it. People are saying it "lacks form and structure" and that it's "discordant", and I've never really gotten any of that. Unless you're listening to extreme free jazz, jazz is quite structured and the harmony is usually very functional. I really think the "jazz is just random notes" mindset is a serious problem, and I worry that it's making people adopt a certain set of views about jazz that they hold to be absolute without ever really giving the music a chance to speak for itself.

I don't know why or how I stumbled upon this video, but, to be honest, I don't agree with it at all. I think I am a tolerable guitar player, although I don't even dare to think I'm a virtuoso and I won't compare myself to seasoned jazz musicians. With this in mind, here are my reasons to dislike jazz: 1. To the untrained ear, or, at the very least, to my ear everything sounds the same. I mean, not exactly the same, but it's either too chaotic (which is not the same as complex), or, when it is not chaotic, it is just elevator music. Most jazz guitar solos that I've heard sound way too similar to me - the same tone, the same tempo, the same rhythm, and no matter how technically proficient the guitarist is, when I can find more variety in a random power metal album, why shouldn't I listen to that instead? 2. I can't think of even ONE new jazz song. I'm not saying there aren't any, but even classical musicians and classical music fans aren't so stuck in the past. I've never heard anyone speak about "rock standards" or "metal standards", or "pop standards". With jazz... It's all standards, man! 3. Jazz fans are even more obnoxious than prog metal fans, and their habit to defecate upon other genres is really grating. After I saw 'Whiplash' (a movie that I loved, by the way, although purely musically it doesn't make a lot of sense), I searched for a few Buddy Rich solos to see why the leading character was so obsessed by him. Do you know how many comments mocking rock/metal drummers I saw under his videos? This, combined with their habit to constantly stroke their ego, is extremely off-putting, plus, it shows me mostly that they're ignorant. Why should I respect their opinion then?

I was never a fan of jazz until I decided to try a few key chord progressions. As most guitar players probably know, there's a difference between listening to music and playing it. One thing that is cool about jazz is that you'll be learning new chords that you can apply to other forms of music. You'll definitely find it useful playing the blues, but you'd be surprised to discover "jazz" chords in some songs by rock groups. Check out the chord progression for "Under the Bridge" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, or "The Rain Song" by Led Zeppelin. .

It's simple: Jazz musicians abandoned swing/groove/rhythm. They went all-in on complexity, syncopation, sophistication, and turned their backs on what makes music hit people's souls. I like and respect jazz, but the problem is not dissonance, amount of notes, acoustic instruments, nerds, but what jazz has abandoned. All the music theory and sophistication in the world does not equate to soul.

Jazz is improvisational and no matter how good you are, when you improvise you will fall into familiar patterns, runs and techniques and that makes Jazz have a sameness about it. The monotony of improvised music is probably the biggest factor for it's unpopularity. Also, the tiresome elitism is a huge turn off.

When it comes to art, any art, if it has to be explained, if you have to be "educated" to appreciate it, the art has fundamentally failed; and is thus, objectively "bad". It's like a comedian, having to explain to his audience why they should find a joke funny; at this point, no one will ever be on his side and you know for a fact, the joke is not funny. Jazz isn't the only complicated music; many people are turned off by jazz by the undeserved smug elitism of jazz artists. Yet, no one, not one single person ever taught me Bach was great, I knew that the first time I heard his music. I didn't have to take a music theory class on poly rhythms to realize; dude, this mushuggah stuff sounds kick ass. I don't have to know ANYTHING, AT ALL, about painting to realize, Rembrandt was one hell of a painter. Jazz is the most boring, monotonous, stoic form of music. This is why it's elevator music, it sparks NO emotional response, which makes it useful to provide bland ambience. Tolerable, back ground noise is all Jazz is good for. Back ground noise, that no one pays attention to; else they'd turn the channel.

I think Jazz is music for musicians

Number one reason squares hate jazz, they have been brain washed by the CORPORATE music industry 24/7 to accept the LOWEST common denominator of music, which has pretty much rendered the masses tone deaf. That doesn’t bother me, because I quit buying into the media hype when I was 16, I am 66 now. The minute I HEARD Coltrane, Miles, Bird, Ornette, Cecil Taylor, the Art Ensemble of Chicago, that ENDED “pop culture, celebrity hype” music for me. Why listen to hacks when you can listen to geniuses?

I only had four reasons why I hate it - thanks for the other three!

I heard BIRD at 12 years old and I found it very easy to understand, no problem. I heard Trane at 14, I loved it straight away. My son heard BIRD at 3 years old, he said he found it beautiful. Yet I am an African and jazz is not part of our culture. I am proof that it has nothing to do with education but a taste.

Yep, I mortally hate it, all right. Jazz = the sound of a Blues band falling down stairs.

I don't hate jazz, but many songs have like the sax so high in volume and the rest so low, it's like, resign to barely listen to the band or get a punch in the ear every now and then, or play with the volume knob the whole song. Maybe it's just that I'm young and born with music that's pretty omogenous in volume, but it's frustrating.

This made me hate jazz more

Jazz is music for musicians. Jazz is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially non musicians.

When I was fifteen, a friend of mine discovered fusion/jazz music. He constrained me to listen, I was just bored. Actually he was planting a seed: I got used to it, I played sax and now, 58 years old, I enjoy to study piano jazz, the best pleasure of my life.

One thing I heard Dave King say on a podcast that really spoke to me, was that playing with The Bad Plus, they'd have people who had no concept of what jazz was, or what they were/where they were coming from for that matter, who would come up after a show having really enjoyed it! And that's The Bad Plus! Not exactly Kenny G on the bandstand. And to him that said that most people would probably enjoy jazz, but you'll never get it unless you get into it through a live experience. I really believe that. I introduced a buddy of mine to jazz last year. We went to Smalls while we were in NYC and checked out Ari's Monday night thing there (with Orlando LeFleming and Gilad Hekselman that night). My buddy had ABSOLUTELY no background coming into this, and he REALLY loved it. Also managed similar success with another friend checking out the real Kenny G(arrett) a few years ago. Maybe it depends who your live intro to jazz is idk, but just being exposed to it in the right way, in a living, breathing, joyful way... seems to work! Just discovering this podcast now by the way, and really love it, thanks for doing this guys

Music like every art form has to convey emotions...Happiness, sadness, nostalgia, fear, power, lust, anger etc... When you have no talent to compose something that makes the masses of laymen feel emotions, but are very good with music theory and finger speed, you play theoretically complex cacophony and call it "jazz".

1. Almost never a melody 2. Complicated just for the sake of being complicated. 3. Improvisational, almost never hear the same song twice. 4. Dissonance, multiple musicians playing without regard to what the others are playing. 5. The songs have to be explained to be enjoyed. 6. The songs are created for the enjoyment of the performer and not the audience. 7. Self righteous snobs who look down their nose and make a comment like "most people are too dumb to understand it."

I think the reason why some people hate jazz is that to them it sounds like elevator music.

Ya like jazz?

One of the big reasons I hate jazz is because there's always some jazz musician ready to tell you "you just don't get it," or some crap like "it takes a trained ear to like jazz." Guess what? People are allowed to hate your music. The music sounds like crap, the musicians are pretentious, and you know what? I'll just go ahead and say it, jazz schmazz.

It's not wrong notes. It's not really random either. It's improv and a lot goes into it. Music theory. Jazz players like myself have to understand it and it takes years to fully comprehend and it is not easy. Jazz is fun to play and fun to listen to if you understand it's not random notes.

to play complicated just because you are able to , is what a lot of guys (that I know) do. With this you impress a few other musicians but not the audience. We live in the dark ages of jazz (Barry Harris is right hahaha )

I tend to like its offshoots like jazz hop (Tribe Called Quest), trip-hop (Funki Porcini, Massive Attack, Skalpel, Mr. Scruff, Red Snapper), fusion or jazz funk (Weather Report), ambient/downtempo (Richard Bone, Groove Armada’.

I tried listening to easy listening once and it wasn't easy. 😄

You know when a little kid sits at a piano and just starts going up and down the keyboard hitting random notes. I've seen jazz concerts in front of 1000 people where I swear it sounds no different.

It's like reading a book vs watching TV. A lot of jazz is implicit, and the listener has to provide input. If you don't want to do this, that is ok. But it is not an elitist activity any more than reading.

I hate Jazz because I'm too lazy and or not smart enough to appreciate how great it is? LOL (I'm just having some fun!)

*Jazz musicians just love to portray themselves and their music as more sophisticated or lofty, sorry but 90% of the time it's not true. They love to believe they make good music when they improvise, THEY DON'T ! Most of the time, it sucks !*

I got into Bossa Nova and that lead me into all those great jazz chords

I’m a classical musician. People hate classical music for all the same reasons - times ten.

Seriously, that's why sun-ra was talking about space ships and him not being from Earth.

I feel like jazz has "experimental syndrome" where it's often writen or played for craftmanship purposes rather than art purposes. The pieces that focus on the song end up really awesome. I think that's why other genres often use jazz techniques better than jazz does

You should give Jazz a chance. Honestly, I can understand some criticism but not all this hate. Jazz like all the art music forms is not for everyone (thanks God). I personally like any kind of music that is authentic, Jazz included. And you don’t need a PhD in music to appreciate it. Just take a breath and fuckin listen. I mean...you can dislike Jazz, no problem, but what about other form of music that involve careful listening? Many people can’t stay concentrated on anything...

I remember taking jazz back in the day n the instructor was saying he studied so much he tried to forget parts of what he learned so he could enjoy the music more lol

I fell in love with jazz at 7 years old when I watched the premiere first showing of " a Charlie Brown Christmas on TV in 1966 featuring the Vince Guaraldi Trio. Come on how can you not like that. Its not like its "Cecil Taylor" smh

Your assumption is wrong. "People" don't hate jazz. Jazz is only hated by certain people in the United States and maybe, for unrelated reasons, in areas of the world that have political or cultural reasons to hate jazz. An objective reason for hating jazz therefore does not exist. It must be something unique to the United States. And if one thinks about it, the reason is obvious. Hatred of jazz in the United States is merely a reaction to the post Vietnam War era and a reaction to mainstream media using jazz to deliver inauthentic messages that are seen as selling out to the Establishment. Go and watch old episodes of Dragnet. The background music often is jazz. But Dragnet is seen as problematic today because of its advocacy of law enforcement use against marijuana and perceived whitewashing of the police. Similarly listen to the music of the Charlie Brown specials. It's jazz. If you watch especially TV from the late 60s and 70s, observe how jazz is being used to try and program the view to react to scenes in a certain way. And jazz as background music has continued to be associated in particular with police shows on American mainstream TV.

this made me detest jazz all the more

The 2017 book 'Stealth Jazz: Behind the Curtain' explains this very well.

I fully disagree that people have smaller attention spans now. Much of swing music is incredibly simple.

You don't hate Jazz, you FEAR Jazz...

Although, I have high respects for artists within the Jazz community due to their high level of technical proficiency. The discordant nature of most songs within the genre doesn't appeal to me the slightest bit. I feel like perhaps I am missing an important factor that lacks more appreciation, and that this is a fault of my own... Can someone who enjoys Jazz, please help me figure this out?

I think a lot of people don't like jazz (or some of its subgenres) because it became aesthetically linked to a kind of "party time" older people used to have. Something that "used to be cool" but it's not anymore. This was a barrier for me at first, but jazz fusion helped me overcome it (funk is still considered fun I guess). But if you present it in a nice context, they get it. One time I went on vacation with some friends. We rented this very old house in the countryside, no internet, no tv, etc. We had some magic mushrooms, and everybody was lying down around the fire, just chilling and enjoying the trip. I was the only one with some music downloaded on my phone, so I blasted Herbie's Headhunters on the mfs. Everybody was amazed. They couldn't stop talking about how far that music goes and comes back to the starting point. They still ask me for recommendations to this date. People who never cared about instrumental music. I really believe that's not about being dumb, but commercial music has developed in a way to serve as a soundtrack. You really don't have to pay a lot of attention to it, it's just there on the background. And if you listen to jazz without attention, it can be a really shitty soundtrack, frankly. It's a shame.

Sometimes I listen to this podcast instead of jazz because it’s an easier listen and you don’t have to be as open in a sense of perception plus this is opening me up sometimes when I’m not in the mood for jazz

Many people who hate jazz actually hate bebop and its legacy. Bebop made jazz complicated and self-centered. I like it, but it's truly hard to get.

Geesh! Just can't get thru this whole thing. Feel like I need a shower. Jazz nerds are not the ones to listen to on why jazz is hated by people who hate jazz.

I believe what sitar maestro ravi shankar said once "I like melodic jazz not cerebral jazz'.

Much Yarns = Great Chat, lots of great info 🇳🇿 similar to when you show gratitude to someone platonically close to you for their help with something and you’d say … “much love”

funny how the same reasons people hate jazz is the same reasons most people love it.

Good podcast. I see a lot of angry jazz haters in the comments proving their points correct.

I’ve never seen a more cringe comment section in my entire life. yikes , this video must have pulled in people off the street and not regular open studio watchers.

The problem is people don't know how diversed Jazz is and all of it's sub genres. They think"Smooth Jazz"is all Jazz when Jazz has as much subgenres as Rock.

Girls don't like Jazz, huge problem...

The reason why normal people HATE jazz is because all it is is 5 different instruments playing 5 different songs at 5 different tempos. That and you get these pretentious queens pretending like there’s some deep meaning and complexity to it. 🤦🏾‍♀️

Jazz is for pretentious pseudointellectuals. It's the musical equivalent to someone accidentally leaving their glasses on the floor of an art gallery and people thinking it's actually art. Its boring. It lacks a complicated and interesting structure. It just runs on and on and on.. The note progressions are interesting, but that alone isn't enough to carry the overall lack of a complicated and well thought out structure.

Most of you here would rather learn a classical piece with a sheet of music stuck in your face and memorized it than to learn a simple jazz line and improvise on it....that's rocket science for most of you

I hate people who Jazz! So there ya go haters! Choke on that! LOL

I love Jazz and I love rock. For completely different reasons.

Jazz is all about swing. Swing is a tension. Tension is operating force in all great music. Until a person *feels* what swing is about, deep in their bones, they won’t understand what makes jazz so pleasurable.

There's no repetition to it is my main gripe with it. It transforms itself too much. No pattern, no order. Very difficult to play of course but it's just a little too busy for me to actually enjoy.

Maybe people who say they hate jazz just haven't listened to it enough to find a style that they like? I love jazz music but mostly more instrumental smooth jazz I don't really like vocal or big band kind of jazz

for me, Jazz is not a supreme genre the you need to like all of it. Is a music genre like every other else. I like to think jazz is like food. we taste it, feel the instruments, the notes. And like food, you like some, and don't like others.

I myself love jazz and I try to show some to my dad. He is def not dumb or ignorant, he’s a CEO. He’s just under so much stress that the jazz is just too stimulating for him (which I believe could help clear his mind 🤷🏼‍♂️) so he likes simple EDM that has exactly the same beat for 5 minutes. The thing is he doesn’t even want to start listening to jazz. Like he already made up his mind on jazz

To me, it is just the first one, it is not that it sounds difficult at all, it is just that there is too much dissonance and it just feels like, as you said, they're playing the bad notes on purpose. Too few dissonances and it (might) feel boring, too many dissonances and it (might) be overwhelming. It just breaks down to where in that range is your threshold. So I don't really think that for any means, not liking jazz makes people musically dumber. Like many other things, it is an acquired taste.

Too many dudes Yea cos chicks usually like pop music

well to me jazz is a real big genre. .Can you be a jazz musician without improvising???

If people didn’t understand baseball, they would hate it too. But popular culture brings baseball to people from a young age. In contrast, people have to seek out jazz.

My OPINION : con-"FUSION" is the jazz-musicians angst as the musician cries out for other disturbed minds who want to sort out their mutual morass; and, syncopate strange arpeggios. Jazz is "MY TRUTH"; and, if someone else doesn't get it, they're left out. Many musicians have interpersonal issues with expressing themselves but can use music wonderfully, to bridge the gap and bring you to tears or joy or action; BUT, Jazz, (at the confused end of the range), is the refuge of the dissonant cognition,

There are definitely certain flavors of jazz that i hate, but...thats just as a listener. When i am attempting to play jazz i am on cloud nine. I think if we had a machine that could extract all influence of jazz from all modern music, film, improvisation...it would be a hellscape and people would beg to have it back again. But where did jazz begin? In the chords of Debussy? Carlo Gesualdo? On a ballophone somewhere in Africa?

It's like an unironic 'Jazz Club' skit. _Niiiice_ *Grrreat* _Niice_

All the reasons given are non-musical - acoustic instruments, sounds complex, nerdy, pieces too long, all dudes, and so on. These are reasons given by people who basically aren't into music. They like it if it tells them things they want to hear, but as for doing a little work to understand... most "music lovers" aren't up to it. Most people DON'T really like music. They like a nice beat to dance to, a strong rhythm to work to, a .ittle muzak to shop to, and so on, but anything that challenges them they don't care for.

I'd add an 8th reason. Like the criticism of Mozart's music in the movie Amadeus: "Too many notes!"

Jazz music gives me anxiety

How about jazz just sounds bad .

I don't like jazz because it sounds like an endless stream of random notes and bogus chords.

All the haters on here don’t have the ear to appreciate jazz so they call jazz musicians and listeners “pretentious.”

what’s the name of that song playing at the beginning?

what a load of bullshit. "discrimination against women". when i was at conservatory studying Jazz, there were frequent open attempts to get more women on board the instrumental side of the music. Still, only maybe 5% were female instrumentalists while probably 90% of jazz singers were indeed female. there was no discrimination against anyone, woman are simply less interested in playing an instrument in Jazz music. btw the ratio of male/female students in the classical faculty is pretty much 50/50.

Even if you dislike jazz, there’s no denying that it is the ultimate teacher of music. If you learn to play jazz, you will learn all of the fundamental building blocks of all music.

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Been exposed to a lot of jazz as a function of being friends with someone who listens to a lot of jazz. At first I thought it just sounded as this annoying intricate plinking noise, after many sessions of curated exposition I now think it sounds as this annoying intricate plinking noise.

I mostly hate jazz because it’s too cerebral. Can’t let my passions flow when I listen to jazz. I guess this is the point with “nerds” that you guys are talking about. It’s not about just the look.

Jazz music is largely highbrow for most people and is the sort of music you’d listen to while drinking a fine, expensive cocktail and having fancy hors d’œuvres. You don’t get that from metal, rock or hip-hop fans, they’re more working class

The music in itself, i don't have much of a problem with. My biggest problem is, Socially, jazz is always treated like the hot new girl in town. it's annoying to the point I escape the conversation: Do you play jazzzz… the jazzzz.. wow jazzijaz... oh just shut up. 99% of the people I've met in my life who talk about our play jazz "even if they memorized a lot of chords" are stupid musically as a form of art.

Every time I hear jazz I look around for a Starbucks store lol

Very interesting piece of self-criticism. Interesting arguments you've come up with so that I can now counter-attack any jazz hater! ;-)

PROTIP: listen to jazz fusion. It is jazz, but newer. It was made in the 70’s, so its still old. Sounds better honestly.and bossa nova. Thats Brazilian chill jazz

Regarding reason #2: then why so many people like Yiruma's music?

well KEITH Jarrett dynamic with his gestures.

Mostly, the rhythms/beats/pulse are what bothers folks about jazz...the constant ride pulse doesn't rock.