A Better Way To Tune Virtual Volumetric Efficiency? Zone By Zone Tuning!

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A Better Way To Tune Virtual Volumetric Efficiency? Zone By Zone Tuning!

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4 жыл бұрын

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Пікірлер: 70

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Here is a download link to the graphs I setup, keep in mind these are for my zones, you will have to edit the rows/columns and filtering to match your zones but it should help get you started! drive.google.com/file/d/1upGzxP8v9MfmzokX4L0mmjVc49PceQtZ/view?usp=sharing

@stebevs 4 жыл бұрын

Dude I was about to beg and plead with you in a comment to send me these tables and as usual you went above and beyond and had them posted already. Youre the best teacher on KZfaq!!

@tedtrotz8145 3 жыл бұрын

seen this link after building mine. thanks

@joelmaupin 3 жыл бұрын

i cant get the xml file to load in my vcm scanner. any advice?

@militantmafia7354 4 ай бұрын

My row axis is a little different. Mines reads in "Manifold absolute pressure". I see that yours says "Map / Baro Pressure Ratio" Is there a way for me to get mines like yours? Or should i edit the charts? Im Tuning a "Gen 4" 5.3 2011 suburban Lt

@benlowe6838 Ай бұрын

@@militantmafia7354 same here but it seems like the axis are the same

@jimmieturner2563 3 ай бұрын

This made a lot of sense to me and I tried it a few times. It is a bit more work but my LS2 is running much smoother in the lower-to-mid throttle input areas and the exhaust is not smelling nearly as rich. Thanks for confirming this is not only possible but it's a viable method!

@gmstudent93 4 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a good sticker idea 💡😆 One cell at a time lol

@intolstuning3735 4 жыл бұрын

a good visual with the filters is to set one up in the maths section and get it to show as 1 or 0 then overlay it with your fueling in the chart v time set the range so u can see the line at 1 and line at 0 then u will see it change from the 1 to 0 when its ignoring data and then back to 1 when it does record data, i found it really good for adjusting the filters to get rid of all the bad data like commanded change v wideband, or decel or fast transients or if u just want steady state can have many uses

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I like this idea, will have to dig into it more!

@CraigPatersonII 4 жыл бұрын

This is how I did it on my 6th gen. Worked great. I think I mentioned that in my email to you last week.

@CraigPatersonII 4 жыл бұрын

I highly suggest not smoothing those hard lines at the zone boundaries. It cause much more issues than it solved on my tune. I also calculate each zone.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I haven't been attacking them on mine and have been surprised to see how it has helped with transition zones. Doesn't make sense but seems to work.

@CraigPatersonII 4 жыл бұрын

@@GoatRopeGarage My only issue, and seems to be a similar on my friends 4th gen platform. Was that one zone that got out of line and began causing extremely lean conditions. I reverted the zone to a tune that it worked. Then got it to blend with the rest of the table and it was good. My buddy is having a more significant problem.

@dennisray6093 4 жыл бұрын

Love it!! My setup is a Gen4 z28 427, so i tried the zoning table and used filtering without map pressure math since this is a gen4. I love these type of videos, Great job!! Edited, so i tried both ways with filtering and without. At first i thought their was no change. I accidently opened the same table twice with the same log, definitely a difference between filtered and unfiltered.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I was interested to see how much data it cut out from the transition areas that it populates in the main table, I don't know if that data would help or actually hurt the zone calculations.

@dennisray6093 4 жыл бұрын

@@GoatRopeGarage the data seems to match, your still getting a average of all the transient no matter what zone your in. Using the zoom function gives you a real time to peck at your Map but its time consuming. Ive noticed that filtering Wide Band to get rid of those transients, I put mine at

@joshdrobny93 4 жыл бұрын

This is how I ended up tuning mine, except i only did the idle and cruise/mid throttle tables seperate, then the wide open ones didn't give me the same problems, so I did them with multiple zones at a time

@d_rock_t 3 ай бұрын

Just fyi for anyone using this. Some of the zones dont generate data if you use the downloaded link. The bottom zones need "above and below" map data to generate info. Once I fixed they it work fine.

@shawnlibby675 3 жыл бұрын

this man rate here knows his stuff very good content.... how come there's not more tuner respectful smart men like you around LOL I know some Tunas holding certain secrets on purpose trying to keep their buddies car down if you want Power LOL me if I was tuning personally my buddy's car made more power than mine I'd be proud because I was the tuner that got that power LOL keep the videos coming brother good job

@GoatRopeGarage 3 жыл бұрын

My whole purpose is to share information and I learn in there process of people asking questions and giving suggestions. Thanks for watching and commenting!

@anthonycurfman5155 8 ай бұрын

Picked up a hp tuner trying to learn how to tune. I installed a stage 2 cam. Still learning how to use software and understand it.

@snivesz32 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, first off, whether you gather data all at once or by zone doesn’t actually matter because, when you click Calculate Coefficients, it already is going to update each zone’s parameters individually anyways. But IMHO that is the problem. It’s actually so smart that it’s dumb. Because the structure for each zones formula has only a 2nd degree polynomial it’s always a concave or convex function. So they break the whole map down into 30 zones to get a complex shape that more closely approximates the map. But the problem is at these zone boundaries the curve fitting logic doesn’t account for neighboring cells so the transitions are poor. This is observable in the 3D graph as a blockiness. But the irony here is that they should have just used the VE lookup table in the first place and interpolate.

@jdcustomz 4 жыл бұрын

Nice Job. Decent info!

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Picking up a belt right now so I can keep testing it

@burr-leeTV 4 жыл бұрын

Great Vid . I really appreciate what you do . Sure do wish you did more Uh-Hem , Ford Tuning . I'm just starting out with HPTuners , and Ford sure is different than a LS Platform . Your videos are helping me learn HPTuners software, data logging and learning how the engine is running , but it will be a while before I'm ready to attempt any changes . I just bought a 2008 Mustang GT with a 4.6L 3V with cams , Cat delete , X-pipe and a dyno tune . The compare feature really helps with a stock tune compared to my Dyno tune . Keep doing what you do and if you would like to look at some more Ford tunes , hit me up .

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

A lot of this carries over luckily, and so between that and a little forum research it can help get you started on the right path. I would love to get to the point of doing other platforms but there is still so much to do on this one!

@c4love 4 жыл бұрын

Brilliant thinking here tuning by zone in theory seems so much more accurate. More setup of course but AWESOME

@NickDoddTV 2 ай бұрын

Is it normal for the same cells that appear in the main VVE table and the specific zone to have different numbers in them? I notice on my data log the numbers are a bitt different and when scrubbing through your video I see the same difference, like when you mentioned zone 2, there was a 5.1 and 1.9 in the VVE but 5.5 and 2.4 in the zone 2 table.

@thomasjohnson1142 4 жыл бұрын

I have a ? Are you gonna add that to the GRG parameters ? Damn!! I just got them I should have waited on the update lol looks good mad scientist.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

No, only because it is dependent on how your zones are setup and so there isn't really a way to make a one size fits all setup.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I added a link at the top of the comments.

@thomasjohnson1142 4 жыл бұрын

Goat Rope Garage oh yeah I didn’t read all the messages but yeah I did rezone mine of course but yeah Won’t work but I was just joking man I’m sorry need to keep my big mouth shut I’m causing you more work lol but always man thank you

@jacobrusso9522 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Kyle, this is Jacob Russo. I noticed you have a tab for "calculate coefficients" mine doesn't have that. Where do I get it? Or is there another way? That is a very effective process

@benlowe6838 Ай бұрын

Back again Kyle I’m struggling to understand how our axis are very similar but your vve is in pressure ratio mine is in map pressure I was super excited to use your zoning graphs but I don’t know if my e38 from 07 2500 hd is capable of

@benlowe6838 Ай бұрын

Learning from the garage it’s because I’m gen 4 so I need to take out the pressure ratio and zone tune my map kpa

@bryanplunkett5150 Жыл бұрын

I noticed when you were editing the tables that you were editing the 0 degree cam position(s). If your car had a variable cam, say LT1 in a C7, do you only need to edit the 0 degree position? or do you need to modify the cam position in the tune, get a log, set the table to that cam position and make adjustments (for every single position)

@franksotomayor7341 4 жыл бұрын

Kyle, great info great Vid. looks like a bit more Wk but lookin a lot smoother and possibly less frustrating (especially in between zones) if u feel it’s a more consistent way to calculate Vve plz let us kno all the math to install. Thx for all ur Vids keep up the good Wk -Frank

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I will try and toss the base filtering stuff up in the description.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I added a link in the pinned comment.

@BryceVectra 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! But what about both variable camshafts? Should we fix all possible camshafts position's and collect data for each of these fixed position's?

@austinkrieg9895 2 жыл бұрын

Hey I'm new at tuning been tuning my zl1 for 1050cc injectors longtubes 3inch exhaust an 2.55 upper an 9.10 lower an tuned on 91 octane I keep getting spark knock an timing is only at 14.5 on the high octane table an I cant seem to figure it out

@trav1le265 Жыл бұрын

Should I still disable maf if my maf only tune is dialed in? Should I datalog my zones against stock stft+ltft or disable my o2 correction and log against my wideband? Thanks!

@leovascik 3 жыл бұрын

How about when doing a dodge.. referece.. if i log the LT and ST data.. then want to put inthe the VE 1 and 2 tables.. there 2 digit on the 09 srt.. , as well when my data log graph . has positives and negatives.. wouldnt the math work different when appliying?

@vortecturbo 2 жыл бұрын

My virtual ve with the E38 computer 2011 Silverado is in kPa will this translate over with the pressure ratio for the zones

@nichoalaslamont9305 3 жыл бұрын

How’s it going if you could please help me out with a question I had somebody tune my 2006 Chevy 1500 reputable near me in South Florida and it will not go over 100 mph it did before the only thing I’ve done since then is a cam swap so I think it should go faster thanks used to go over 120 easy now it hits 100 mph and like dies out

@Nitrousbird 3 жыл бұрын

I'm doing the (frustrating) VVE tuning on my pretty decent-sized cammed LS7. Now that it's been 10 months, do you believe this method is the better way to go to get things dialed in close on the VVE? Also, you have mentioned squaring off your zones via the zone RPM and zone MAP boundaries. I noticed in this video that wasn't done - still something you recommend doing for simplicity?

@dylanpixley2767 4 жыл бұрын

On the video of the 2015 Silverado with cherry bomb , did you guys cut the resonators out as well or just replace the stock muffler with a cherry bomb

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Cut the resonator out

@bigworm84 3 жыл бұрын

Do you do remote tuning? I have mvpi2 and aem wideband. Caprice ppv.

@dennisray6093 4 жыл бұрын

Rpm 2.2k to 4k and Map 35 to 60kpa, filtered and unfiltered the only changed at 35kpa through whole rpm range 2.2k to 4k. Below 35 kpa there was no change filtered or unfiltered. Interesting. Unfiltered rich and filtered was lean for 35 kpa line only. So i will have to confirm the accuracy of those cells compared to my wide band output. Edit, the filtered 35 kpa line is now in line with the rest of the table. So the filtered table seems to work and give consistent data. Unfiltered seemd to be skewed on the 35kpa line.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Good to know!

@CHANCESRBARR 2 жыл бұрын

I need help with tuning my gen 6 Camaro if there is anyway to get in touch with you. I would much appreciate it. I do have a HP tuner

@matthewames792 3 жыл бұрын

Can you make a video on filtering please?

@JakeRohde52 5 ай бұрын

Did this turn out to be a good method of tuning the vve? I don't see any update on what you think about it.

@GoatRopeGarage 5 ай бұрын

This is the way I do it on my own cars. It’s not the fastest but seems to be the most accurate.

@JakeRohde52 5 ай бұрын

@@GoatRopeGarage I appreciate it. I'm struggling with the vve just turning lean and not smooth after 7-10 runs on the street using both the "traditional" technique and your "zone" technique. I don't know where to go after that so I just start over, and it ends up with the same result.

@jacobhilyer9545 4 жыл бұрын

Preciate ya Kyle. I gave u up on VVE and went to SD VE on Gen 4. I got frustrated with it. Never thought of the zone thing, that's cool. What's up with the belt slip?

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Big blower, small pulley, next pulley should help

@mikew6135 2 жыл бұрын

How do the big tuners get aLl this done in a tuning session? I have a Dodge Challenger Hellcat and guys like Curt Dusterhoff and Tim Barth are legendary and tune these cars in a few hours with crazy modifications. Just trying to figure out if they are doing a thorough tune or skimping somewhere or are they that Good?

@yo_its_devo Жыл бұрын

I imagine a big part of it is having thousands of tunes saved that they can reference to get close to start with. Then it's just minor tweaks from there

@francoissimard4716 Жыл бұрын

hy my naime is jeff i im louking for a tune im french so i im soray for my english hope you can read i dont ave de noledge yet tou ave my truck working proprely i did teque de 5.3 wit dod out my suburban and i put 6.0 wit no dod an dan i gat lost ? i waz pouch too fast i to dat progect bicose of de feliure of my 5.3 i did cancel dod i can gedet runig but i cant sim too get it working fine and mor i listen too wour video more i teque concience da am not therre yeat so i that dat you can help me

@stapy69 4 жыл бұрын

I haven’t used HP much but if you copy with axis and paste with axis shouldn’t it put it in the correct location on the map rather then having to find it manually, I know Efi live uses copy/paste with labels.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

No, won't work that way at least on the VVE table

@kylecryer1334 3 жыл бұрын

My VVE tables are really far of and can’t get it to run hardly at all on VVE . Is the a way to tune VVE tables while running on MAF.

@GoatRopeGarage 3 жыл бұрын

You can use MAF data to generate a VE table but it can be hit or miss. I did a video on it awhile back and generated a table from scratch. But generally I would focus on getting the thing running in SD and work out from idle. I've touched on start up running a few times too

@jamesking425 3 жыл бұрын

Hey how can i get you to check out my tune

@lt1z350 4 жыл бұрын

Are you still putting it into sd to do this? I was told by a few people that it wasn’t necessary on gen 4 and up and went about it a different way. Using a blended histogram once the maf is correct you can leave it in your normal blended vve/maf and log and correct the vve and I’m finding it’s actually giving me much better data. The histogram I’m using is coming up with the final number input into the table too.its not and error table but the math is showing what’s correct with in 3 percent. I’m still playing with it but on two corrections it’s not moving on the 3rd log it’s that accurate. I do like breaking it more into zones as your doing so might try to do something like that to see if changes. But I ave found if you put the vehicle in sd spend all that time on it then add back blended maf the vve will change again the errors will grow. So it almost makes much more sense to tune it in blended and as your going to be driving the vehicle. If haven’t tried it something you should look into to simplify things. A few good threads on it on the hp forum. I was lucky enough to get guidance from a really good tuner on it and get me pointed in the correct direction and set me up with some maths and the table.

@GoatRopeGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I have done a video on that a long time ago and I don't actually like that approach as it is calculating a VE as opposed to actually running in VE and seeing the true error. You have to remember that you might be making changes to VE table but you aren't running on it the majority of the time in Dynamic Airflow, especially in the portions that matter, high load/high rpm, and while the MAF is doing most of the fuel calculations the VE table is being referenced and still is used for high transient states.