Who settled the places in the west, like Massalia?

@@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719 That was the Phocian Greeks from Anatolia. Unfortunately Archaia Istoria doesn't cover that at all, the Greek settlement of southern Gaul and for that matter eastern Iberia.

I suggest you put a graphical time line during the full duration of the videos, as a reference. It will clear things up.

@@pnyts I usually have the date put in the bottom corner in my Philip II videos.

Archaia Istoria what about Marrsalia

When is that gonna come out

@raspoutin I doubt he is going to give a straigh answer judging on how he shows the ancient map at 0: 21! This guy clearly seperates Macedonians from Greece,he goes as far as to consider them as something diferent than a Greek city state! Policaly correct maybe? Communists dictated our present back then when all that started thanks to TITO!

I liked that you also talked about mainland Greece but I'd also like to see more about Epirus and Macedonia which at the time weren't so important but still

Archaia Istoria It is a bit ridiculous you cut out half of Hellas! I’m not sure if you’re trying to be politically correct so as not to conjure the anger of the Vardaskan/North Macedonian Nationalists. Did you know that?: * There was no ethnicity called ‘Macedonian’ under Ottoman occupation. The identity only really took off after the textbooks were changed and an irredentist movement was developed by Joseph Tito. * The newly called North Macedonian was actually called ‘Vardaska’ or ‘Vardar Banovina’, not ‘Macedonia’. * The so-called Macedonian language is actually a dialect of Bulgarian. * Slavs didn’t arrive in the Balkans until the 6th century AD. * Until the 6th Century AD, the Balkans was actually very genetically homogeneous from Greece/Hellas to Dacia, being mainly EEF genetically (Early European Farmers). * Ancient Macedonian geography (before the time of Phillip II) was 100% located in Modern day Greece. No part of Ancient Hellenic Macedonia before Phillip II’s expansion was ever located in what is now ‘North Macedonia’/FYROM. The Historical Capital of Macedonia is Aigai (Vergina)/Pella, which is located in Greece not Vardaska. Only during Roman times did the Romans change the contiguous area of what they would call ‘Macedonia’, which only then encompassed what is now the modern boarders of Vardaska/North Macedonia. * Original ethic Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek (just like the Spartans, as an example). Alexander III (The Great) would be the one to create a uniform Hellenic language called Koiné Greek. * Ancient Macedonians most importantly considered themselves Genetically Hellenic, claiming decency from the Argives, some of the original Hellenes! * Ancient Macedonians had a Hellenic culture and practiced Hellenic customs. * The Ancient Macedonians were able to prove their Hellenic decent and compete in the Olympic Games in 504BC, a competition strictly reserved for Hellenic/Greek men only. In 504BC, it was the first time the Macedonians wanted to be included in the games, and they were allowed. * The Ancient Macedonians used pan Hellenic symbols like the Vergina Sun, that were used throughout Hellas extensively, in Hellenic art from the Archaic period through to the Classical and Hellenistic epochs. * There were groups around the area of Macedonia called the Illyrians and Thracians. Those groups knew who they were and never claimed to be Hellenic, nor did they adopt the Hellenic language, cultural practices, customs, religion, philosophies, arts or Sciences. But the Macedonians did claim to be Greek/Hellenic even though according to some Vardaskan nationalists, they were ethically different and spoke a different language called Macedonian... Even though the Balkans was Genetically pretty much the same before the 6th century AD; and there is no record of this ‘Macedonian’ language, only Hellenic has been discovered. The only major thing that made the Macedonians unique, and to some extent culturally non-Hellenic, was in terms of their government, and a few customs like they drunk wine straight. Understanding the Zeitgeist of that time period is important, because during that time, be a civilized Hellene one needed to live in a Polis with ideally a democracy; but one could have an Oligarchy or Aristocracy too. Tyrannies were frowned upon but were still tolerated in some respects. A feudal monarchy at that time was ‘seen’ as a barbarian form of political government, which Macedon did have. The ones who most often labeled Macedonians non-Hellenes were the Athenian elite, who were quite snobby and centered their world and identity around their democracy, even when it deteriorated. However, what the Hellenes of the Classical era forgot was that their ancestors, the Mycenaeans, did have Kings and likely Monarchies. The Mycenaeans also originated from the area where the Macedonians were from. According to Herodotus, the Macedonians were the first to call themselves 'Hellenes’ (later applied to all Greeks) and who gave the land their name. So in an area where the original Hellenes (the Mycenaeans) came from, existed a people who had old habits just like the Mycenaeans... Interesting wouldn’t you say? The Macedonians: *Wrote in Hellenic and Spoke a dialect of Greek (just like all the others). Alexander the Great was the one who created the unified Koinē Greek language that we still speak today (with some Byzantine editions)! *They worshipped Hellenic Gods *They had an Hellenic Culture, Symbols, Education and identity! *Importantly, they identified themselves as ethically/Genetically Hellene/Greek (by our own modern standards, they could be considered Hellenic Ultra/Ethno-Nationalists)! They stated they were Homeric Hellenes who were descendants of Heracles and the people of Argos. *They identified other Hellenes as brothers and considered the fighting of one another as regrettable. Alexander III (Alexander the Great) unified the Hellenes and stated he was a Hellene very proudly, and that he gathered his brothers (Hellenes) and unified them to attack their long-time enemies, the Persians. *Importantly, they were acknowledged as Hellenes and were able to compete in the Pan-Hellenic Games/Olympics, which was ‘strictly’ for Hellenic Men only!... Until the Roman times when the emperor coerced the Greeks to change that rule so they could compete. There is no definitive proof to show Macedonians as non-Hellenes, just the hearsay of warring/antagonistic Hellenic city states. They tick almost every box (except for their political structure, and a few unique customs) for being Hellene. So because of all these factors, the overwhelming majority of Historians consider the Macedonians to be Hellenic/Greek! Like I said before, they created the cohesive modern Greek language after all! So I have to ask... Is the reason why you left out Northern Greece because you are Vardaskan/Bulgarian/North Macedonian? I would hope you have learned about Tito’s constructed Macedonian identity... If not, here is a source: www.globalresearch.ca/the-slavo-macedonians-as-a-tool-for-the-creation-of-titos-greater-yugoslavia/5643354 By: Dr. Vladislav B. Sotirović

I certainly hope so. What about Greek colonies in modern Spain and France?

Denia was Hemeroskopeion.

You just know one guy would sneak in playing as England and just spam ship of the line

You will be able to do it to a degree in imperator rome but it's 300bc so I guess it would be a new wave of colonisation

I actually made a map of the mediterranean for that purpose although I didn't setup a scenario

would be better on TW, but the fantasy idiots and romance/mythology idiots are just too happy to spend money on infantilising content.

Δημήτριος Α and so was Macedon

@@sergeant_chris6209 Sure, West Macedon as well falls within the proto-Greek region, along with Thessaly and Epirus. All of these three regions are what constitute the central and southern Pindus mountain range. Here is a map of the Proto-Greek area circa 3000 BCE, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Proto_Greek_Area_reconstruction.png. Of course much later, during the Archaic and Classical periods, the Greek presence through the Macedonians had moved more East as well. Don't confuse the above map with Archaic Greece, it is meant to show the proto-Greek area from much earlier. What researchers commonly do as a mistake, including "Archaia Istoria" (whom i greatly respect for his time and investment towards his videos/presentations), is that they only consider Greek, that which was civilized per se, and avoid everything else that might have fallen behind. For example, most maps showing Mycenaean presence today, even though outdated (because other settlements of theirs have been found more North), forget that they weren't the only Greeks at the time. Dorians co-existed at the same time with Mycenaeans as pastoralists on the Pindus mountains, without any serious settlements, hence they are usually overlooked and not accounted for on maps, up until the Archaic period. Please "Archaia Istoria" correct your videos or at least give me some evidence towards the opposite of what i write.

@Hist Ory Yes it was, by blood, culture, and language. I can actually back all this up. What do you have to show to back your own opinion up?

@@Agras14 - How do we know that there was a broad "proto-Greek" area there in the also very broad "3rd millenium BCE? AFAIK the first evidence of Indoeuropean (proto-Greek) penetration is c. 2000 BCE in Macedon, plausibly from the Danube (Vucedol culture), which shares some cultural elements like the concept of megaron.

@@LuisAldamiz Proto-Greek was probably spoken in North/Northwestern Greece at latest in the late 3rd millennium BC. Why? Because Mycenaean Greek which is documented to have been spoken at around 1600 BC is already fully recognizable Greek, so it must have been Greek for quite a while before. Not to mention Mycenaean Greek was also dialectal Greek, so its divergence from Proto-Greek must be pushed into the past, certainly in the 3rd millennium BC at the latest. It should be noted that this linguistic timescale and Proto-Greek homeland map is going by the still somewhat speculative Kurgan hypothesis for the breakdown of Indo-European. Vladimir I. Georgiev, Alfred Bammesberger, and Theo Vennemann, all agree that Proto-Greek is mostly placed in the Early Helladic period (early 3rd millennium BC; circa 3200 BC) towards the end of the Neolithic in Southern Europe. Russell Gray and Quentin Atkinson in a 2003 paper using computational methods on Swadesh lists have arrived at a somewhat earlier estimate, around 5000 BC for Graeco-Armenian split and the emergence of Greek and Armenian as a separate linguistic lineages around 4000 BC.

I'm glad you picked up on that. My reason is really two fold for not going into the western Mediterranean all that much. A) The video was already 20 minutes with my finished script. The original was version was actual 20 minutes long and that was just me getting into the Asiatic Greeks in Anatolia and the Near East so giving a general history required I make a video only focusing in one half. B) In lieu of me shifting my focus I decided to just cover the Archaic Greek era of colonisation, since that was the bulk of expansion into Magna Graecia, the Black Sea and the Near Eastern Emporiums. Most of the western Mediterranean colonisation happened just on the tail end of the Archaic era. Phokaea would only go to Massalia because everywhere else was taken and the Persians had taken their polis. So even the foundation city was outside the reach of the area I was covering. However I might cover the western holdings in its own video when I start getting into Sicilian history.

Giorgos, it's too much. Only on delian league if i remember correctly participated 2000 city states, even this video said more than our history books and i am amazed you know about Massalia. There are also many theories as to why dorians used orichalcum and where they got it from, inciting that there might be greek colonies in the atlantic part of europe up to england where orichalcum came from. Or the island in Feroe named Myceneas. There were also parts of south africa that were colonized later on.The only thing I found weird is that they were afraid to sail to pontus, since Minoan ships were the largest the world had ever seen ~1000 years before their arrival, i would expect a sail to pontus a bike ride.

@@nermainmerl3284 That is exactlry what I was talking about. Massalia is not "too much". It does not fall in the sphere of "speculations" as some random artifacts and some out of place names. There are historical records and findings. Heck, there is a sign in the port of Marseille that the modern day people dedicated to the city's Greek founders. This city rivaled Syracuse. The Massilians founded over 10 colonies themselves. And the "Provincia Romana" (Marseille ,Antib, Nice etc) kick started the Roman ambitions of world domination.

also Barkalona (Barcelona), the land of the ships.

@@RoderickVI I thought the name Barcelona came from Hannibal Barca???

SyracRuse bothered you and Mykeneans did not?

@@tozapeloda77 It does NOT matter what the Greek pronunciation is. The correct spelling and pronunciation is the one that is in common use. For example, the people from Germany are Germans, but Germans call their country Deutschland.

@@kraigthorne Wrong way round. The correct way is how the name is originally pronounced, not how it is COMMONLY pronounced.

@@georgemangco2526 What ignorant twat told you that?

@@kraigthorne what is common for you probably for me maybe it isn't

@@absolutn2059 .?

Another matter you should take under serious consideration is that he utilizes trolling robots. You can very easily find out that the thing you talk to is not human...lol...it is on line on a 24 hour basis piuking propaganda lies. If you present them with facts they cannot disprove .They ignore your questions and keep on repeating the same irrelevant stuff they have being programmed to say. If you challenge them further then they delete your questions and report your profile. It is always the same fake profiles making those endless dicussions only among themselves----some of them even posing as Greek---and ignoring you completely. If you do not know what they are, you could be fooled for a while thinking they are autistic humans. But once you know the truth you can easily spot them. Computer generated algorithms cannot immitate human thought pattern and reaction..lol .

I see the same bot trolls commenting here as well...so it's most probably his own channel as well under a different name.

@@rusty_juice_tin indeed

Thanks fam squad. A little insider info but be sure to give OSP and Armchair historian some love since they were some of the real brains behind the operation!

I do plan on covering the Hellenistic kingdoms at some point but my mate Kings and Generals did a great video on it last week.

+@@ArchaiaHistoria Yeah, just wanted to point it out given that you mainly just listed the (more or less) costal settlements.

Greeks from the anatolian ioanic colonies who rebelled against the Persians, were forcibly deported to Bactria by the Shah as a punishment. When Alexander the Great conquered the Persians and campaigned further east against their eastern satrapies in South Asia, he was surprised to find Greek communities already existing in Bactria from the Ionian deportees, his generals settled in Bactria and formed what would later become the graeco Bactrian Kingdom.

The Greek Bactrian Kingdom was formed under much different circumstances than the colonies formed by the Greeks in the archaic period.

Thanks for that. I have a tendency to go overboard with detail so I originally had to simplify this script twice (it’s a really broad topic). But I’m really glad it ended up a good in between of General and specialised history.

Epimetheus Glad someone picked up on that!

😂 😂

Lol 😂:)

@@ArchaiaHistoria please do one on greek colonies in india ie punjab the land of dioynuses

History Time Appreciate it! I’ll have to check your video

Thanks for that, glad you liked the narration!

Thanks! Although do take Herodotus' words with a huge grain of salt if its legends and such, like the origin of language being Phrygian...

Hehe of course.. I'm not so naive as to take anything at face value

This is Barris! - French History Thanks man! I actually do plan on making a second part to this on the Classical colonies in the Western Mediterranean. Marseille was really a fascinating colony in both the people who came from there (i.e: Pytheas) and how it is actually the oldest city in the Western Mediterranean.

@@ArchaiaHistoria I didn't know any of this so I would definitely want to watch it. Marseille has a pretty bad reputation here in France (Drugs, crime, poverty etc) which is a shame because it has a fascinating story. I was planning on visiting Marseille soon to film on the spot for an episode but it will mostly discuss Revolution and onward Marseille. If your video comes out in time, I would definitely link it for anyone interested in its past history.

Thanks, happy holidays!

Appreciate it, I’m glad people are enjoying the depth and not finding it boring or anything.

On one hand thanks, on the other Spongebob is king

Thanks. Well good news then, that’s exactly what is currently in the works. Hopefully before the end of the year

@@ArchaiaHistoria Very cool! I appreciate the reply and best of luck to you and the channel!

Goood... gooood...

Glad you enjoyed it. I’m thinking I’ll make a follow up to this video on the western Greek colonies

Appreciate it, I tried to keep the colours to the main ethnic tribes for simplicity sakes since in this time many states formed so it would’ve been hard to constantly show them as they develop. Also I didn’t have exact dates all that often due to the nature of the topic, that’s why I kept calling back to the century.

@@ArchaiaHistoria Forget the dates then. :P The colors were great, I just sometimes forgot which color was which tribe while I was watching.

hahahahaha Be sure to post that on every video yeah

Seriously though there are a ton of greater videos in the playlist

@@ArchaiaHistoria epimetheus's video is good and overly-sarcastic productions's

Marseille

Yes Massalia in modern day Marsailles was one Greek colony in modern day France. The famous Greek explorer Pytheas was from Massalia.

Never left ;)

Name ending in "oglu" :-)

Mine ends in "dis". Northern Turkey (Black Sea) somewhere, until early 1900s.

@@angeloparis7963 Mines Anton-iades, and -iadis is pretty much the same.

Mines Paroussiadis. Cheers.

My father said that it defined Greeks from the East.

It really is a fascinating period. Not many people really think about how these darn Greeks got everywhere. As for the Persian deportations, I believe it occurred shortly after the Ionian revolt in the 5th century.

@@ArchaiaHistoria Yes, of course! I wonder what kind of influence they had on that area of the world at the time? I am glad to have come across your channel. I've been an avid lover of Greek history since i was a child and some people have told me i have a peculiar fascination with the Seleucids.

Well I plan to cover the Hellenistic kingdoms in full when I get up to the Diadochi. However my friend Kings and Generals did an excellent video on the kingdoms of Bactria and Greco-India

@@ArchaiaHistoria I love those guys! I always appreciate the channels where the creators engage in open discussion with their viewers. I am glad to have discovered another person who has a passion for this particular subject. Thank you

Glad you enjoyed it! I use Illustrator for the maps and after effects to put everything together

@@ArchaiaHistoria Thanks a lot, good luck, i will be waiting for your next videos.

@@user-nx8ds3ic6e heyy buddy i own a greco turkish friendship discord server if you want to join send me your account

@@theodoruspantelides8661 Greetings dear commentator, unfortunately I do not use discord, nor am I greek or turkish. I thank you for the offer and wish you all the best.

Yeah noticed that in post

James Parrott I’m covering that later in another video

I only put them as not Greek in regard to the polis structure. In my main series on Philip II I agree that they’re Greek but distinct because of their different societal structure. So really it’s Greek* *Those in the polis system

also wasn’t it pretty comm for greek people to see man Macedonians as more greek adjacent

Cullen Rooney It’s complicated.

Cullen Rooney. Don't get confused by FYROM. Slavs.

Whether Macedonians were Greek was already debated back in the time of Philip, he won the debate because he had the victorious army but other Greeks grumbled anyhow.

What arre you rrefering too?

You guys are right, was just havin a bit of a giggle. Don’t know why I wrote it like that in my script.

nice

My fault really, I just uploaded it 20 minutes ago! But stick around if you want I’ve got some videos coming out soon finally continuing my Philip II series

@@ArchaiaHistoria I mean I love your style of videos so I'll be sure to stick around :)

Its part 4 of this major collab, look at this playlist: kzfaq.info/sun/PLDb22nlVXGgd2rdNu1C44t-hoYXA9bL2M

@@ArchaiaHistoria thanks!

Great question and thanks. The situation varied greatly from region to region. Keep in mind that we are talking about a wide area from Spain to Crimea. Also important is the type of colony. Emporiums were more akin to merchant outposts that might develop into a dedicated Greek quarter of the city. These would be more gradual developments and less of a danger to the local population. Whereas Apoikia were intended as cities outright, but even these could vary in hostility and danger to the local population. In Thrace or Sicily, where there was a large native population, the population might be evicted or enslaved, but they may also be integrated into the new polis as well. The Sicels were famously hellenised and adopted poleis of their own. In other places, like Africa, the Greek settlements might be on “empty” land that was seasonally inhabited by local berbers and so there could be raids from the berbers against these colonies. However these Apoikia could also be peacefully settled with the local population. In Massalia and Hispania colonies were negotiated (or even invited) with local lords. So really your situation with the Greek settlers could vary greatly and depend largely on the terms of your relationship. Locals could invite the colonists, be invaded by them or create a mutual arrangement. As for your specific question about Thera, I address this in my (elusive) sequel video about the Greek colonies in the West. I hope my general summary could somewhat answer your questions.

@@ArchaiaHistoria Thank you. Goes a long way to helping me picture those events. I'll have a search for your sequel.

Dávid Danos I will have to do that for next time. Seems like this is a popular request

@@ArchaiaHistoria yeah man proper cartography is key to these videos. I f you add your own custom maps with a bit of style that would be the cherry on the cake. I hint that is more easily to edit maps than to draw other stuff.

I agree Herodotus, they spoke the same language, worship the same gods, had the same alphabet, and we can even add that they were the very ones who mixed/conquered the Myceneans, the Dorians, they were from Macedonia and north Thessalia. You folks were all Greeks/Hellenes why so much distinctions? It would be like the Russians saying that the Poles are not Slavs even with all the ressemblance they have

Kaly lmaoooo are you stupid or are you dumb?!🤣 open a history book. The Greek City states and regions were all referred to as their names because they were independent from one another. (Athens, Sparta, Ionia, MACEDONIA, Epirus, hellenized Thrace, etc) but they were all united under Greek identity. Easiest example and proof of that is the Olympic Games. Non Greeks were not allowed to compete. So how did Alexander the great compete? Oh wait. HE WAS GREEK. Why did he speak Greek? Why was everything written in Greek? Why did he spread Hellenism and start the Hellenistic era? HE WAS GREEK. Just because a country of Bulgarians formed in 1991 is situated in the geographical region of Macedonia doesn’t mean they get claims to the Ancient Greek history and some Bulgarian history. Greeks had control of that region for centuries until the ottomans came and borders were fluid. There is no such thing as Slavic Macedonians. Only Greek. Slavs came to the balkans in the 6th century which is hundreds of years after the death of Alexander the Great.

i think he doesnt mention phoenicians, due to the lack of evidence... we know it happened, but we dont know the facts... because they got erased from history... with greeks we have a better documented chain of events, based on discoveries, texts etc...

@@MojoBonzo That's really not the case, though. Yes, Carthage itself was destroyed (and later rebuilt) by the Romans, but that was one city. For instance, nearby Utica, which was also Punic/Phoenician, was spared and occupied peacefully since they surrendered to the Romans. It's not like we don't have records of Carthage and for that matter we have tons of archaeological evidence, from Spain to Sardinia to Sicily, of their presence.

@@ericconnor8251 no i didnt mean carthage... i meant phoenicians. and correct me if im wrong, last time i checked about them(really im no expert on the subject), we didnt have much evidence about them. most we had came from the greeks. at least thats what i remember

@@MojoBonzo If you're talking about ancient Phoenicians who came directly from Lebanon, okay, there's not much, I agree, but the Carthaginians were basically the descendants of Phoenician colonists and their culture, religion, and language was more or less the same. It's like the difference between American colonists of the 18th century and British people still living in the British Isles. Not a huge gulf there between them.

Yes

I plan too, will hopefully get the next episode done real soon. Research for them have been rather hard.

August

Donathan Harris Hellenistic =/= Hellenic