Yes!!!! Early 119 motor is such a beast and it’s so raw!

I could listen to him talk about this subject for hours. I would love to drive a 126 with any of these swaps it would be a blast. I'm 34 so I'm getting really old and I'm happy with how fast these old analog cars are I'm done with speeding tickets that's why I love this car it makes me drive like a sane person. Notice he never mentioned LS motors .... LOVE IT ! IF someone produced a high quality engine harness swap conversion it would be very tempting. I could never start with s nice car I'd have to do a ground up. Hard to justify.

Pierre, Tom from Calif. here to say that I have now had my 89 560SL since Sept. 19 and with 220,000 miles and great service records I was absolutely STUNNED and totally blown away about 2 weeks ago when for the first time I jammed the accelerator to the carpet and and absolutely could not BELIEVE the power this heavy roadster has!!! I do not anytime soon see the need for any future engine mods or replacement with performance parts. You as we all know have been right all along, these cars are truly in a class all alone when just maintained....Thank you so much!

Thanks for these videos Pierre.....proesst

Thanks i have n 560 sec with m 119 early verssion running smoothly

I started with my 1987 560SEC exactly the way you recommend, just keeping it analog and stock concerning engine and transmission. My first violation was a standalone electrical fan cooling system. Then, I put an 722.6 transmission with Ole aftermarket ecu in, which is very easy to configure, flexible, very little changes to the car, and makes the car clearly more fun to drive than with the old 4-speed auto. My next project is to swap the m119 in, but I actually prefer the later version with electronic fuel injection, with aftermarket ecu (MAXXecu), and aftermarket electronic throttle body. I will keep the rest analog, so just the engine control will be MAXXecu, which will make the car easier to tune. Yes, Mercedes won't be able to perform every job an this car, but this is not important to me and the change will be very little, as I will keep all analog sensors from the old engine in place that are needed for other functions to work properly. It will be a Frankenstein car, but a very nice one. Building an engine to 6 liter and putting turbo chargers in or other is as invasive as changing the engine electronics. There seems to be this stigma with Mercedes fans that changing anything mechanical is fine, but changing electronics is a crime. I believe people feel more confident with mechanical changes than with electronic ones, and software is naturally very abstract. But it give you the option to optimize things so easily and reliably. Mechanical fuel injection was great at its time, but it also has a lot of disadvantages as it is run by an ancient motor control system that is extremely inferior to a good modern truly free programmable aftermarket ecu. A 6 liter motor could also be called a Frankenstein motor. I am not saying that one is right or wrong, but I believe there is more than one way. naturally, one should attempt changes that they don't feel comfortable with. What I wouldn't do is changing the steering to rack and pinion to swap in am M113. That would be too much of a change to the character of the car (handling / driving). I also don't like the wide body AMG look. It is so outdated. The classic Mercedes lines are beautiful.

Am in the market for a 560sec. Was a bit worried about tune-ability so this video is greatly appreciated.

This is such a great channel. I have joined the $100 a month patron!!

M156 is 6.2L. I've never heard of a 5.5 variant. You sound like you mean m113 which was in the c43 and early s55 amg cars. However, I believe that is a 5.4.

Great site! Appreciate all the very good information! Any chance of a (very) detailed video of installing new single chain, plus guides in an 1983 380 SEL? I realize it might be a small audience but l'd be most gratefull.

Thanks Pierre. I am considering the m119 or m120 swap to replace the "tired" m117 in my 1977 450SLC. Some great info.

Thank you for this knowledge. The main issue all run from analog and k-jettronic to EFI more reliabile. What the best upgrade for W108 280s & W116 280se. To be more reliability. Dialy use. Best regards,

Awesome technical info. I prefer an analog car, just for the reason that electronics are just asking to be stranded on the side of the road. If not today, then tomorrow or the day after ! Is somebody checking these videos ? The sound does not come in really until about 2:43 and again in and out at 5:36

I remember a fellow on Benzworld many years ago who put an M120 into his 560SL. Recall that he ruled out the M119 because the twin cam heads made the motor too wide for the 107 engine bay. The M119 in a 107 has always been one of my top “what-ifs” as has the M104. There also was someone about 20 years ago who ran a C126 website (mbcoupes) and very painstakingly documented the conversion of his 560SEC into a 500SEC-32V using a 119.960 motor out of an early 129. The M119 in a 107 has always been one of my top “what-ifs” as has the M104 but I gave up the idea of engine swapping after a very expensive 380-to-500 conversion that was never right.

There is no need to swap out an M117-968 5.6litre as they a great reliable engine with a good choice of performance parts now available from USA via Carobu Engineering on the west coast. If you check out their website for list of performance parts including forged pistons 10.5:1comp in 96.5mm & 98.5mm to fit factory rods & standard H/gaskets. Performance cams/headers etc & control of fuel & spark mapping for KE-Jet. All their engine testing is done on their engine dyno room and tons of data posted up on that on their FB page and on KZfaq. M117 5.6ltr can now make 350hp & 390lb/ft of usable street torque all while retaining the originality of the car and its factory engine with a factory looking engine bay. There is also an EFI bolt on conversion Kit complete with base tune ECU if you are not concerned with factory look engine bay (they are USA Agents for Elbe Engineering in Estonia who supplies modern supercharge kits and Twin Turbo kits with custom air-to-water intake manifold and manual g/box conversion kits including flywheel/clutch plate and even stronger flexplate for auto and a heap of other custom parts if you jump on his website Elbe Engineering to see the wide range of custom parts for the M117

Speaking of engine swaps I bought another w180 Ponton and intend to install a MFI m130 engine with a floor shifted 4 speed

Instead of doing and engine swap it seems to me that one would be much better off upgrading the 560 engine that’s already in the car. It’d be great if you would do another video that speaks specifically about upgrading the 560 engine. I’m pretty sure that I have a set of NOS original Mercedes cams that they produced back in the day that went into a select number of special order 560’s that I believe was called the hammer.

Why not just installing a euro 5.6 that produce 300 HP in standard form

Next topic ! Who's going to get c126 euro healights reproduced! And light up my world!

Fundamentally one gets used to any level of power. I will definitely drop 10.5:1 pistons in if the SEL ever needs a rebuild, though. That sounds reasonable and should give some more torque and a bit of efficiency. Custom intake manifold would also be nice for the 117 while retaining the stock look. Not sure that the m119 would actually be an upgrade.

R107 with perfect m117 968 , 10:1 compression and no cat is the ultimate driving machine!!

What are your thoughts on a M113 5.5 Kompressor in an 82 R107?

My dream is to swap in a near mint early m119 into my 1989 560 sel

Just curious, your thoughts on M104 3.2 litre swap, full turbo build. Nothing insane, maybe 350hp. Please let me know your opinion

Sorry, not sure I agree, The M119 I think is a great choice but at this point I’m pretty sure there are almost no technicians that understand CIS or any of the versions. Of course the exceptions being the few that work on the older stock vintage Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo and such. I mean you can’t even find a technician that can diagnose a car without a computer and there are not many technicians that can diagnose with a computer. On the other side of this is the parts, they’re getting scarce. So even if you take the time to learn CIS the parts might be non existent from Mercedes, first tier sellers, and second tier sellers are carrying more URO parts to just have something to sell. I personally think a change over the likes of Haltec or other ECU is a better choice at least you would learn something that would carry forward. With my w126 everything is a separate controller, idle speed, idle air, ignition. Technology unfortunately changes, but if you stick with a manufacturer wiring diagram you might still be able to get support from the manufacturer. Although it won’t be cheap, there is nothing cheap about owning a used Mercedes.

Gosh why does the later m119 make so much less power than the early version?

Does this also apply to the 380SEC?

Hey do you know if a 1985 500 SEC will drop right in a 1982 380 SEC?

To upgrade the original 560sec engine, are the parts available Pierre? I saw that the heads rarely come up for sale.

I have a 87 560 SEC. What’s the associated cost on modding the engine? US Spec w 80k miles. Thanks

So what modifications to the m117 would you suggest that do not involve forced air induction or any radical and extreme expense. A 3500lb car (560sec) with 300 hp will be fairly quick on the street.

local has m113 for sale for 2grand was looking to do a swap in my 560sec, I know you said keep analog but is it really that bad of a route to go? Please help me obiwan kenobi, youre my only hope

I'll consider subscribing once you get your microphone situation sorted.

Hello. People drive really bad cars and still talking about speed and horsepower! I drove the m117968 euro 560SEL no kat in 1987!!! When sitting behind the wheel at a stop light you should hear nothing and feel nothing, it's motionless and dead quite! Anything else is not worth talking about.. LAST YEAR, I slotted a healthy m117968 engine an R107, it is a dream to drive, hard to handle though.. In short. Restore the engine that came with the car or REPLACE IT WITH something very similar..

I'm gonna get engine mounts from a 300SEL and put an om606 in a 560SEC

great topic you didnt really detail why two are terrible and one is great....please provide some more insight thomas.... why is the video so over saturated and what is going on with the audio man... this is going backwards

M156 6,3? Did you mean M113 and M113K?

I had this “evil” idea the other day... Putting ITBs on a 560SL, having a custom plenum made, and relocating the distributor and metering housing to the side of the engine, maybe behind one of the headlights, and making braided fuel lines similar to the ones used in VWs to connect everything. Yeah, probably not worth the gains, but it would be a cool money-burning project for someone with a lot of it. Or I could just live with the brilliant factory design which is all anyone needs.