A further explanation of what I was thinking on the small mill turn machine. Just a quick video.

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Edge Precision

Edge Precision

Жыл бұрын

To possibly answer some questions about what I am thinking about the way this machine could be used. Sort of a hybrid fly by wire manual machine. This does't give you the feedback on the handles like a full manual mill or lathe. But I think the trade off is worth it. This was just taken on the fly on my phone. So no editing the video/sound.

Пікірлер: 59
@leonelromero8349
@leonelromero8349 Жыл бұрын
I miss more of your great videos 💪. greetings
@ronaldrolka-py5yy
@ronaldrolka-py5yy 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for the information 👍😎
@brantonbeall9061
@brantonbeall9061 Жыл бұрын
I think this is a great idea. Especially just having a manual machine that is able to “link” 2 axis together would be such a benefit even for industrial use. You are on to something and I will gladly support a kickstarter or any other way I can. I definitely believe in you and owe you something for all that you’ve taught me through the years!
@skimachco4198
@skimachco4198 Жыл бұрын
Really enjoy your channel and admire your knowledge and talent. Hoping many more vids to come.
@95dodgev10
@95dodgev10 Жыл бұрын
I run a fermat horizontal boring mill with a b axis. It also has a universal head that can be taken on and off. Kinda similar to your tz and tx, when the universal head is on it now has the tool tilted to a different angle than standard config. So there's a setting that has to be applied called tilted work plane. When that is set to whatever angle its at the axis then switch so y may become z or x might become y or a "y" move might jog x and y at the same time. Its all dependent on what angle the tool is pointed at. I haven't got around to using it yet because we just got this machine in January. But thats how the trainer demonstrated it.
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
We have a large bridge mill that can mount a 90 degree head at angles but it does not have this function in the manual jog mode. The only way to do it, if you have a tool in a hole is in MDI. you command a G68 coordinate rotation to make the work plane at the angle of the head. Then make a incremental move (G91) in Z plus direction to move the tool out of the hole. It is a little nerve racking way to do it. But it's the only way.
@95dodgev10
@95dodgev10 Жыл бұрын
@@EdgePrecision the universal head we got is a manually adjusted one. It kinda sucks compared to the powered ones because the powered ones can be changed automatically like a tool van but this has to be taken on and off by hand and then a setup process across multiple pages to get everything happy. Then it has 2 points of rotation which have to be indicated in one at a time using a test bar to get the angle accurately set. The powered ones do this all automatically giving the machine 5 axis capability and have an accuracy of .001 of a degree. We wanted the powered one but the control that this machine was built with doesn't have enough inputs to run the head so it couldn't be added on.
@Jewelrymaker
@Jewelrymaker Жыл бұрын
I hope you are doing well, Peter. We haven't seen you in a couple of months. I miss your videos.
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
I'm here. I've just been working on jobs that I have already made videos on or can't make them on. Also been working on some Mexico stuff.
@dcasillas3412
@dcasillas3412 Жыл бұрын
I've been designing a lathe to make and you got my gears turning.
@PeregrineBF
@PeregrineBF Жыл бұрын
One thing I've never seen for manual jog is separate jog wheels for each axis *with force-feedback proportional to spindle load* . Essentially replicate the feel of a manual machine, but with control by wire. You can't *feel* the resistance to moving the axes in a CNC the way you can with a manual machine, so it's a lot easier to break a tool in jog mode.
@jasonruch3529
@jasonruch3529 Жыл бұрын
Prototrack lathes have a similar function in handle mode (following an angle). It makes a large angle easily done by hand in small steps
@gilbertotejeda4167
@gilbertotejeda4167 Жыл бұрын
Nice! I remember those days
@TrPrecisionMachining
@TrPrecisionMachining Жыл бұрын
good video peter
@trid1050
@trid1050 Жыл бұрын
Would you please make a video to explain how to re-dial in the x and y axis on the milling spindle in zero degree position so it would mill cut concentric on the turning spindle? I would appreciate it very much
@calholli
@calholli Жыл бұрын
Interesting.. always learning.
@ransbikes3413
@ransbikes3413 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic idea
@brentschmitt3338
@brentschmitt3338 Жыл бұрын
You are a smart man.
@billlee5307
@billlee5307 Жыл бұрын
Another great idea! Thanks!
@bcbloc02
@bcbloc02 Жыл бұрын
That combined axis motion is pretty handy.
@kisspeteristvan
@kisspeteristvan Жыл бұрын
a normal sinumerik 840D machine does this jog if you have an active work offset - and in that offset you had work coordinate rotation . I could literally jog X and have an interpolated move in X Y . Some machines jump out of work offset mode in jog , and go in the absolute mode.....i observed this behaviour while using the part probe . This is how we set many parts "parallel" that in fact were out some 0.1-0.5mm
@exol511
@exol511 Жыл бұрын
The current design is very much a CNC Toolroom mill (say a Deckel with a dividing head A axis) flipped horizontal if I am understanding it correctly (but with the rotary axis lower in the stack). Summing up the main problems with the current design (some of em discussed before): 1. The fact that the mill spindle head is very likely to get in the way of the operator when mounting a new parts (you can move it down but then you are risking dropping say a shaft onto the spindle and you still got to reach into the machine more). 2. Visibility of what exactly is happening inside the machine might be problematic, which is going to discourage manual usage of the machine, which due to problem Nr 3. does not really give much of a benefit either. 3. Rotary axis for the spindle head is on the bottom of a 3 axis stack and is offset on top (2 linear on top of 1 rotary), which acts as a large lever onto the rotary axis and any error in the positioning of said axis is amplified due to said lever. What I would be very interested in hearing is what the target constraints for the machine would be (you did mention the rough sizes of the machine, but I still have no clue hon the sizes), so say part size, precision, tool lenght/size, ... I do really hope you keep the video topic going as I find it fairly interesting!
@maloyaircraft1174
@maloyaircraft1174 Жыл бұрын
Centroid CNC makes a 6 axis control board. This would be a great project!
@Supereid
@Supereid Жыл бұрын
Great explanation! Your last video inspired me to play around with a similar configuration for a twin spindle 5 axis. I would love to get your thoughts on it!
@AlmostMachining
@AlmostMachining Жыл бұрын
interesting. a interlocked axis motion where the locking is always some sort of ratio. Non full CNC would be somewhat funky as you loose out on quite a bit of additional functionality but straight forward Peter. Granted a simplified control would be needed with the ability to set those ganged kinematics up. Not sure how accurate over time/distance it would be. Would be dependent on the feedback loops. Lots to say about this. :) Great Video!!!
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
It should be absolutely accurate because this is the way the machine moves. It would be nice to have this function on a manual type of machine. Think about it no more guessing. just set the B angle and jog the machine to turn or bore a taper. Or drill holes at angles. The only thing that would be nice is a constant feed function in either Tx or Tz in the manual mode. My Mazak will do that in the normal X,Y,Z axis but not in these selections, or the B and C axis. Also as on the Mazak Integrex it is also updating the position display as you rotate the B axis. So if you want to say drill a hole at an angle a certain distance from the end of the part, its pretty easy to know where you are. Or turn a certain size chamfer.
@jonwatte4293
@jonwatte4293 Жыл бұрын
It would be nice to have a separate jog wheel for each axis rather than a single wheel I have to keep switching over, too. Parts are like $100 per axis (encoder, handle, electronics) but I think there's too few people who would want this to make the big boys care about it.
@Cheeta666
@Cheeta666 Жыл бұрын
Didnt even know my e500h could do that hahaha thanks peter
@XRoadxRunner
@XRoadxRunner Жыл бұрын
So good
@pcsmachineworks
@pcsmachineworks Жыл бұрын
From a manual machine standpoint, you could very easily do this with some variable differential gearboxes tied between the rotary and the "normal" axis but packaging it all and minimizing backlash would still be a challenge without custom made hardware. From a DIY cnc standpoint, Linux CNC has kinematics and makes this an absolute breeze with a few trig calculations. One could run the Linux control in a manual jog mode with multiple mpg wheels, or still have the ability to run actual cnc programs if they wished.
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
I'm not really sure how this could be done with fixed gear ratios? They could work for one position of the B axis but it continually changes as the angle of the B axis changes.
@pcsmachineworks
@pcsmachineworks Жыл бұрын
@Edge Precision variable differential gearboxes. You would have to calculate the proper input cam ratios, but has been done with mechanical gantry systems long before servos where common place to provide "linear moves" as apposed to "dog leg" moves while traveling between limit switches. Let's say b, z, and x axis are all coupled. If the b axis is at 0 degrees (normal to z) then the variable differentials would be at 1:1 and input to the handles would be normal. As b axis tilts, the rotation of the b axis would have to input to 3 seperat variable differentials at the same time. 2 of the gearboxes would correct input from the handles to make the "linear vector" move. The 3rd gearbox would tie the Z and X axis handles together and cause them to move simultaneously to a varying degree based on the input cam reference from the b axis. There would have to be a couple of "engage/disengage" clutches to go from "linear" to "vector" moves, but is completely possible to do. The movement mechanism would likely resemble the backside of an old multi-spindle screw machine with shafts and gears everywhere. One could do it with just one variable differential between the x and z axis handles, but the "fine tuning" of the final motion resolution would likely be less than adequate for typical machining types of motion.
@JesseSchoch
@JesseSchoch Жыл бұрын
I think you could do this via inverse kinematics on your manual machine idea.
@steinarne79
@steinarne79 Жыл бұрын
Heh... My Okuma guy is gonna hear about this!!!
@hinsabroyamasaki6242
@hinsabroyamasaki6242 Жыл бұрын
hi peter happy" semana santa:
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
¡Gracias y tú también!
@machiningmule5525
@machiningmule5525 Жыл бұрын
Most machines can do that but i have never seen the function to jog it like that on the machine i work on you have to rotate the coordinate system with G17 and then it transforms the axes
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
I think you have your G codes a little mixed up. G17,18,19 are for selecting the plane of circular interpolation. The normal (Usually default) is G17 the X,Y plane. G18 the XZ plane and G19 the Y,Z plane. What you may be referring to is G68 work coordinate rotation. That one transforms the machines axis to the new rotation. And yes in the auto mode all CNC machines will do that if they have the option in the control. It's pretty standard. You can combine the two but first you would have to rotate the work coordinate then specify the circular interpolation plane if it is different than the one already enabled.
@curtis0432
@curtis0432 Жыл бұрын
Alright it's been 2 months what we working on now 🎉
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
I am working on a video on some very small parts on the Mazak. I just haven't had the right jobs for videos. They are either repeat jobs I have already done a video on or a job I cant do a video on. But I should have this video out this week. Thanks!
@curtis0432
@curtis0432 Жыл бұрын
@@EdgePrecision I'm making a long 50 inch shaft with a single turn 31.5 inches long +0/-.002 Was asked how I ensure size. shared your video of its bore boring technique you use similar to what I do. And saw you hand posted in awhile I enjoy your content very smart man
@andrewlivesey6779
@andrewlivesey6779 Жыл бұрын
What’s your opinion of mazatrol vs G code
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
I don’t use Mazatrol for anything on this machine except for boring soft jaws. I prefer to use my cam software because it can do things the Mazatrol can’t. Also the simulation is way better then the one on this machines control (this may be better on newer Mazak controles). The Mazatrol is excelente on normal lathe work on a 2 axis lathe. But for milling it’s a little difficult for anything that’s not simple things.
@danielescobedo8460
@danielescobedo8460 5 ай бұрын
What cam system do you use for Programming
@SmallShopConcepts
@SmallShopConcepts Жыл бұрын
Cool idea! The mechanical is easy enough, however, I think the kinematics behind a machine like that would be where you run into issues. The math behind that is pretty daunting and not something you'll find available for jog mode in any currently available DIY control software, at least none of which I'm aware. I suspect new modules would need to be written to accomplish the jog mode you were referring too. Something I'm sure Mazak heavily invested in. You essentially would be requiring realtime on the fly manual input motion planning pulling from formulas that correctly processed multi-axis synchronically linked motion given the starting data of the current machine reported position and interpreting it into the desired resultant motion based on the users input. It is not impossible, just not an off the shelf offering. Linuxcnc would be your best place to investigate making that a working possibility as you can explore and play with their existing kinematics offerings and motion planner and add to it as necessary, but it would be a fairly big project is my guess.
@gilbertotejeda4167
@gilbertotejeda4167 Жыл бұрын
G69.1
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
Yes G68 or 69 does do this in the auto mode or maybe if you commanded it in MDI and didn't hit reset. This sort of depends on the machine. My Mitsubishi horizontal will do such things. I have a video where I demonstrate manual jogging a rigid tapping cycle that way on it. But a lot of machines wont carry the MDI command like that into the manual mode. I know on the Mazak if I stop the machine to do a manual tool point save in the auto mode with a work plane rotation enabled it jogs like normal (Not rotated). But it will still jog with the Tx and Tz like I show in this video in the middle of a program.
@gilbertotejeda4167
@gilbertotejeda4167 Жыл бұрын
@Edge Precision u are the best machinist on utube in my opinion, I used to operate a puma 5 axis when they first got to the states!U rarely find an excellent mill/lathe machinist, but u also do grinding and everything under the sun.God bless how was Mexico?
@EdgePrecision
@EdgePrecision Жыл бұрын
@@gilbertotejeda4167 La ultima vez estuvo bien. Nos vamos a Mexico el veinte de abril otra vez, Hasta el treinta. He estado practicar mi espanol para hablar con gente en Mexico.
@gilbertotejeda4167
@gilbertotejeda4167 Жыл бұрын
@@EdgePrecision Tu Español es perfecto yo tambien quisiera visitar Mexico tambien mis Padres son de Guadalajara. Que tengas buen viaje y que Dios te bendiga!
@MantismanTM
@MantismanTM Жыл бұрын
I hate how on my 2004 HAAS SL30 when you jog it ALWAYS uses the machine co-ords not the absolute it slows things down sooo much, constantly Mdi and G54 and doing math based off distance to go ugh hate it!!!
@The6thLife
@The6thLife Жыл бұрын
You should be able to go into position screen, press Z or X and press origin and should set your operator position to wherever you currently are
@brentschmitt3338
@brentschmitt3338 Жыл бұрын
I’ve discovered a lot of good ideas have already been patented and the patent holder is waiting to sue for patent infringement.
@brentschmitt3338
@brentschmitt3338 Жыл бұрын
Therefore no one benefits until they get their big payday.
@brentschmitt3338
@brentschmitt3338 Жыл бұрын
Or the patent expires.
@dennissheridan1550
@dennissheridan1550 Жыл бұрын
If I were you I would copy write your idea or even patent it, some Chinese outfit may try to build one and ace you out of the deal.
@seimela
@seimela Жыл бұрын
That will cost money and time to do
@engineeredaf1920
@engineeredaf1920 Жыл бұрын
That wouldn’t stop them 😂
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