If fire storm was cast on a target and followed it, I feel the spell would be more useful and more fun to use.

Side note: I find deep breath to be a suicide button during certain affixes. If we were immune to ground effects and threat during deep breath it would be more playable. If I use it now it's on trash pulls, at the start of the pull (no sanguine or raging spirits out yet) which means threat. If using when the targets are at half health for the Tyranny benefit then I'm dead before I land.

If only firestorm for dvoker worked like boomkins starfall. 😊 Like embers of fire falling onto the mobs

I personally don’t want firestorm to be viable unless it’s purely just through FTF. I would rather it be a passive bonus that just happens with snapfire removed and baked into burnout (with AS also proccing it) or FTF itself. If I have to use it as a rotational staple, I’m gonna hate it.

My 2 cents. I am pretty much only running keys so this is all based on those interactions. I love the relationship of Everburning Flame and Firestorm. Not only is this nice in aoe but also single target when you throw Catalyze in the mix. The problems however make these combos almost useless in most fights. IF Firestorm was an empowered ability that was cast on a target and still had an area effect, the range of which was determined by the level of empowerment, I think it would actually be a pretty awesome build. It would also make it a playable talent in PVP. As stated, pathing would still need to be fixed. I would like to see some re-arranging of talents to give us options of power single target, power aoe and balanced aoe single target options.

I would like to have alarger range of firestorm or that it move whith the mib you have on target whem you cast it. Or it have a shorter duration but then the same damage as befor. Nerving singel target isnt right I think because you dont want to play firestorm in Singel Target.

Thanks for all the updates about the new talents! I hope we never have to take firestorm as is. I would rather select a mob for it to follow if we do. That way there is still some skill to place it on the right one.

best video for evokers awesome explain i think this spell can be bigger or smaller with 4 sec cast and higher damage:D

"Red spells have a chance to make firestorm insta cast" would have been perfect. Includes deep breath, fire breath, pyres, and maybe even firestorm itself. That would make it super smooth. change to 10 seconds or have a stun effect in it. or make firestorm an empower spell with timing similar to how fire breath works right now. (i.e. upfront dmg short duration vs long duration low upfront dmg)

What damage meter are you using in the PTR? Details stopped working after last update and I had been struggling to get any damage meter to work :(

Yes I want to see Firestorm played. It looks cool and we’ll it looks cool. I would like a single target Star build and AOE Fire build. For me making the cast time faster or more instant procs from Pyre and reducing 12 seconds down to 9 would make a huge difference. There are ways to fix Firestorm, it looks to good to leave it rot.

How cool would it be if casting firestorm or blizzard or a similar ability put a "cloud" above a mobs head. So that it follows them and does DPS in an area around them. First off, I bet the cloud would look kinda cool ( maybe like a bigger version of the storming circle but a little higher up ) and it would make those abilities feel better especially on weeks like Sanguine where packs are constantly being moved. I've seen similar comments on here too.

Firestorm should be a fire tornado that follows the main target around. Once that target is dead it can spin off is some direction

Even if firestorm had a much more manual approach forcing you a press it again to retarget a location for the firestorm to proceed too would be an upgrade in my mind. What if they turned Firestorm into an empower spell, its width and damage curve affected by how long you hold?

I think FS needs a complete rework/overhaul - make it like a fire style Starfall or at least make it follow the targeted mob like Fury of Elune does for Boomies, so that you can cast it on one mob and it will follow when the mob starts moving. But even then we need a direct path in order to put points into that talent, sometimes the class designers act really weird :D

there must be a reason just like we have a shorter range compared to other ranged classes :D

redesign firestorm to be a fire tornado that follows the mobs, is instant cast and/or can proc off both pyre and living flame

Changing to to 9 pyres from 12 is a buff, not a nerf. More firestorms.

Not sure how I would fix firestorm, maybe it would be better if it gave tanks a reason to stay in firestorm, like a damage taken debuff, or damage dealt debuff. Failing that maybe it just applies a DoT, so if mobs wander out of it they still take the damage?

What’s the difference between Firestorm and Blizzard, or Earthquake, or Flamestrike, or Rain of Fire, etc…? Is it the length of time it’s up?

been waiting for this vid Nerfing our ST is pretty dumb

The most strange think is invoker can wear two handed axes swords and maces 🤔

I’ve used firestorm on council but never in m+ or on any other boss. I’ll generally only get free instant casts after doing a r3 fire breath spread living flame. It’s terrible hard casting it especially outside of lust. I still do enjoy that boss and fighting to keep fire breath rolling on all 4 bosses.

Just change it so it's a proc that gives free insta cast fire breath at max charge

Speaking of how you can take inspiration for the Firestorm talent. Let's take a look on what do exist already in the game, we have Ravager and we also have the tornadoes aka "Storming" affix. We also have AoE's like Balance Druids, Starfall. We can also take inspiration from other games, what comes in mind for me is the League of Legend Champion called Victor and his Ultimate, which is a strong AoE cloud with a more aggressive target lock-on. So lets take the approach on Firestorms damage first. Here I envision it in two ways: #1 - Either make the ability a really strong with a HIGH ticking damage spread evenly and give the ability room to shine because it is a 12 second AoE with a 20 second cooldown already. #2 - Or you make it deal more damage in the beginning and less in the end and front load it to also make more use of our mastery scaling with it and make the best out of the initial cast of the ability. Secondly I want to take a look on ability itself in conjunction with other talents. Let's go back and consider the our Firestorm being able to snap on to targets with a aggressive target lock-on but to different degrees depending on other talents choices in combination with the possibility to stack them. #1 - Make the Firestorm always instant cast inside Dragonrage. #2 - Snapfire would be a better talent if we had ALL red damage rather then being only Living Flame, this makes it possible to build on the fantasy of being a fire dragon build in this massive Firestorm stacked on mobs. #3 - Give it a target lock-on to always follow the closest target with a decent movement. #4 - Make Feed the Flame also with a chance to extend the duration with each Pyre cast for ALL active Firestorm in between the extra Firestorm so there can be this massive AoE chase moments with Haste much like it is now with Dragonrage uptime.

To me it would make perfect sense that FS would rain fire in a targeted circle for like 3-5 seconds, but mobs hit would keep burning (DOT) for 12 seconds. Then you wouldn’t have to come up with the design of a storm moving with mobs, which I find a little “unrealistic”, and you would have the best of both sides. Target circle stationary, but mobs keep burning. Doesn’t it make perfect sense?

Imminent destruction might be a talent that makes you press Deep Breath, but in reality it's giving you the opportunity to cast more pyres, so the pathing from there to Feed the Flames makes perfect sense to me.

First ! Love your videos dude best evoker guide out there keep up the good work :D

It'd be at least worth looking at if it followed mobs.

I like Firestorm but we need a good reason to pick that one. So, yea, Devs should add a better path for that part.

Their pathing clearly is an aesthetic choice. If you look at the talent tree they are desperate to keep the symmetry.

I sent them a huge doc of feedback during the beta highlighting the issues with the talent tree design philosophy being completely wrong with AoE/Single target talents being woven in between each other. The tree shouldn't be Red left side and Blue right side, because not all red spells are AoE and not all blue spells are Single Target. But, it obviously fell on deaf ears.

I swear they just toss darts at a board for our talents '_' I think overall biggest issue is our Mastery though. The reverse execute style aint it :/ both pvp and pve, promoting one shot style in pvp, and struggling to do damage on execution phase on raids. Idk maybe something will happen or not we shall see lmao (great video btw!)

Does this mean the difference between our single target build and multi-target build is just two talents? Most dps specs that had that in 10.0 really excelled at PvE content.

You just have to compare Firestorm with Destrolock's Cataclysm (which does all of its damage on the hit+dot, and also does not see many plays) to realise that Firestorm is really bad.

honestly i would be happy if blizzard made it so that all aoe effects followed the target chosen. as en elemental shaman putting EQ’s down in the path of a tank is annoying. there is never a time where a tank stands still long enough for aoe to work effectively - not compared to melee classes where their aoe’s are target based

It would be so sick if firestorm was targeted, and followed above the targets head for the whole duration. and if the target dies it finds the nearest target to follow until it ends.

I would like to see firestorm because it's a cool skill, but is impractical to use it.

honestly just make it like mage's fire strike where most of the time you dont actually have to cast it, and make some other way to proc it. Also for sure not living flame lol. I wont mind azure strike, it would be a lot of satisfaction to have it proc during the rotation(the best scenarios just make it like essence burst where it can be proc by both living flame or azure strike.). It's really unnecessary to separate blue and red spells, having interaction between them would make it much more fun and adds a level of complexity to the rotation. Lets be honest we all know evoker rotation is nothing near hard and its fine to add some diffculties.

make firestorm a moving fire tornado

I dont see the issue with the size of FS, the radius of the ground effect looks to be almost exactly the same size as things like Earthquake, and Rain of Fire. I dont see how its any different than a Destro lock getting 3-4+ RoF's rolling, and the mobs getting dragged out of the RoF...the only difference is FS has a CD, but at the same time its a large waste of resources for Destro to get their mobs moved out of RoF and RoF is a MUCH larger portion of Destro's AoE than Firestorm is for Evoker. Is it less than ideal? Probably, but im sure Evoker can manage to deal with...I and many Destro Locks/Ele shamans manage just fine with ground targeted AoE.

Man firestorm is worse than I thought. That's a shame

For me the biggest problem with evoker is that its too simple, not much depth

They should make Pyre and Disintegrate casts on the same target within a small time frame have a chance to cause Firestorm. Like pyre adds a stacking debuff called Flames Sparks, and then a fully channeled Disintegrate ignites the sparks to cast Firestorm at the target(preferably it follows but I digress)

As an Evoker main, the counter-intuitive gameplay of Firestorm is unfortunate. Good talent, but bad execution. As an AOE talent it has great potential along with Pyre, (Snapstorm actually makes it sound fun to play) but until they look at that talent pathing/meta of raids and dungeons, it will never work. Specifically in mythic+ because all tanks feel like they gotta pull the whole dungeon trying to be MDI pros. The best point he makes in this video though, that any class can take away from, is that if Blizzard nerfs good talents, to make bad ones more appealing, it only cripples the class even further across the board. They have to pay more attention to WHY we dont take a talent, and fix it from there. The instant "nerf this so that isn't as bad" is an obtuse approach and it fails every single time until they end up having to rework the entire class, multiple times (Shadow Priests looking at you)

I will not pick Firestorm even if it numerically is good, I don't like how it plays and that won't change if they don't rework it mechanically. I think they need to re-evaluate what they want the talent to do and how it does it, simple as that.

The way the pathing forces you to take non-relevant stuff on almost every class is really annoying. Wanted to get my level 50 mage to 70 and on arcane spec it just has some silly forcing you to take mirror images if you want the two extra ice block talents. Ice Block > Reduced CD on Ice Block (forced Mirror Images) to Ice Block heals you for 80%. Simply cause there is no straight down connection from reduced CD > heal inside Ice Block. This is also true for the Barrier talents on far right side. Forced into Alter Time if you want the heal from the shield absorb and chance for melee hits on barrier to proc clear casting.

The same person that designed Firestorm must have designed Flame Patch. Amazing damage if you can coordinate with the tank and mechanics/affixes cooperate. Whoever the Devestation dev is should be required to run a couple dozen 18s on Live...pugs/no comms. Then rethink this

What I think is that Devs better be watching your videos. Cause yeah Firestorm so non-viable that I don't even understand why they're trying to make it work.

Until Firestorm functions like Phantom Singularity, I don't want to play it. There is just too much movement required in modern dungeons.

Hard to believe that „newly designed mage” has its own flamestrike in talent tree i guess there is no hope for mages then 😅

God damn preheat why can’t you start playing ele shaman lol!? Our class and spec tree wouldn’t be such a mess if we had you on team shaman, our top shaman players that is vocal is really only Wordup and he plays enhance.

They can do whatever they want with Firestorm... we dont really need it... just stop nerfing our single target damage talents!

Firestorm is like a worse version of Rain of Fire/Blizzard, as bad as consecration is really. Theres no synergy going on with the talents or class that make it good, unlike Rain of Fire and Blizzard where you gain ressource or CD reduction to frozen orb. for Firestorm as is to be good, it would need to have a bigger radius baseline and have a synergy going on to make it worthwile, on top of doing more damage.

Bro, you're closer to Blizz than any of us, could you let them know as well how horrible mages are? The entire right side of fire mages is designed for AoE, and nobody picks that because it just doesn't work... Not to mention the other 2 specs and their issues... Since 10.0 it's like we don't exist 🥲