I’m a black woman who visits this channel repeatedly like an oasis in the desert. Please understand you two are being heard and appreciated by many black Americans even if you feel like you’re speaking into the abyss. There are many of us who reject the victim terminology we hear constantly and are appalled at the direction this country is moving toward particularly in academia.

I agree with John. This is not a world I want to live in. Getting up each day to fight the fight makes one weary. Being a black woman who is ostracized by other blacks for questioning our race gets lonely.

I really like these 2 scholars. Not because they're "Black"; rather, because they're "independent" American thinkers who happen to be of African descent.

I just want to take this opportunity to say how much I appreciate the both of you. Thank you for doing this podcast regularly. You give me hope.

I can give you an idea of just how CRT is a virtue signalling religion. I'm Irish and live in Ireland and the black population are predominantly of Nigerian background. They make up less than one tenth of one percent of the population. The Nigerian culture seems very much in line with Irish culture. Nuclear family, education and religion are very important and so the obvious follows on, very law abiding and economically upwardly mobile. Yet , CRT is starting to leak into the culture from the universities even though it have zero relevance to our history and culture or that of the black community here. Pushers of CRT here are the brainwashed wokesters who seem to have no idea that what they are applying their ideology to doesn't make any sense at all.

You are certainly not alone, Professor Mcwhorter. I'm 67 years old and have never felt more depressed and hopeless about the world I find myself mired in. You and I and so many other good and conscientious people are recoiling from the very things you describe.

We are losing the country because adults are conceding to the demands of masses of young people with underdeveloped prefrontal cortices.

Mr. Loury is fast becoming my favorite public intellectual and ole McWhorter ain't too bad, either.

I keep you two at the top of my list for sanity and feedback - this is CRAZY!

It’s about time someone said it….’taken over by dumb.” This is the harsh truth - not necessarily dumb (stupid) people, although often this may be the case, but dumb ideas. It’s a BIT of what Michael Shermer refers to as “Why smart people believe weird things,” in the same way that anyone can believe weird things. It’s also a LOT of “we are now hearing from a lot of dumb people who would, pre-social media, never have been heard outside their social milieu.” Not only are we abandoning reflectiveness but we are abandoning discrimination, discrimination in the sense I prefer to understand it - namely, the inability to discriminate among ideas on the basis of their merits. John, thanks for your perfectly timed use of the F-bomb.

Remarkable conversation. I wish, I wish, I wish more people would reflect on your discussions.

Regarding reflective engagement, this is the crux of the most important battle of our times. It is not Republican vs Democrat, right vs left, black vs white, religious vs secular, etc, but reason vs emotion. And we can blame our success as a culture because it allows emotion to go unpunished. There was a time when survival required reason and hard work. Emotion should derive from reason, not drive reason.

It's like we're living in crazy town I'm 49 and just can't believe this is happening

"What the fuck is all this?" - perfect. Thanks John (and Glenn).

25:41 “What the _fuck_ is all this??” I literally lol’d.

I feel John's pain. Some days I'm optimistic, other days I wonder if I should retreat. I agree with Glen, however. If we all rolled over, we're definitely done for.

Please both of you get on Rogan!

As a mom of boys, wife and daughter, it grieves me that we have deprived ourselves of Fathers, that we hold fatherhood in such low esteem that we can elevate a “biological” father and totally undermine the VALUE and necessity of a present father who parents. I’m sure in his daughters eye and her heart she does think her “ daddy” was her father. A child will give a lifetime pass to absent fathers out of their need. That’s another post. But I want to see us elevate fathers who are actually fathering! It maters.

We absolutely NEED both of you Dr Loury and Dr McWhorter. I so appreciate your talks, they give me hope when I get discouraged like Dr McWhorter does at times. We need more thoughtful, honest, people with integrity like yourselves as we grapple with the extremism, religiosity, self righteousness that appears to be so prevalent nowadays. From a psychological perspective, we need to look at how people who have been traumatized try to exert control and can become the oppressors themselves. The dynamics when we are having these difficult conversations are very important to look at and understand.

Thanks for the double dose of sanity. Much appreciated. Happy father's day to all.

These gentlemen offer a great array of point and counterpoint to critical issues of American society and politics. It is not about agreeing with everything they say; it is about respecting the integrity of their arguments and a willingness to being informed by them when their point is compelling. Even in the (few) areas where they disagree with each other, they engage with respect and consideration. Hopefully, Prof McWhorter's despondence will pass; the fact is that this IS the world he--and the rest of us--live in. No one ever said fighting for it would either be easy or readily rewarded.

The don’t teach CRT. They indoctrinate the ideology. No criticism of CRT is allowed

“I’m underslept today” is not the most profound takeaway from this segment, but I am stone-cold stealing it. Haha

We need both of you, gentlemen. I share Prof. McWhorter’s frustration - although mine is outright and utter despair - but please don’t give up.

The autistic community, which I’m a part of, has been battling against advocates for us for years. We have a saying: Not about us without us. The virtue signaling advocates have done so much damage and they are so large in Numbers, all I can do at this point is help one young autistic person at a time understand they are not broken even though all the advocates are telling them they’re broken and need to be fixed. The parallels I see many communities going through right now are tragic but people of good consciousness can’t give up, we have to stand between the people who are doing harm while thinking they’re doing good things and the people that they want to “help”. We’re all in this together

When I was a teen, I started dating a Japanese woman. A friend of mine (he and I are white) asked me, ~ "Really? Are you dating her?" ~ "Uhhhh . . . yes" ~ "What about, you know, Pearl Harbor?" That is how bizarre the idea of inherited guilt is to me. This really happened. ~ ~ John, I understand why your heart is breaking. Mine too. IMHO this is creating catastrophic harm to a generation of young black people. I am at the other side of the world from Juilliard, metaphorically and literally. Just an entrepreneurial businessman. Young people who have lax parents and are cosseted (and misled) during college have a colossal disadvantage in the job market. It's permanent. And they will spend the rest of their lives thinking the blame belongs elsewhere.

Please don't leave us. The country quite frankly needs you both.

Thank you John for verbalizing what I've noticed and has been rolling around in my head for some time. Lack of self reflection in our society today.

When someone says to me “people of color” I’m tempted to say, “so we’re talking about colored people?” Somebody hold me back because I’m gonna do it!

Stay the course gentleman, the world needs you! Your willingness to publicly share your thoughts and observations are appreciated. I think you challenge people to honestly question some of the prevailing narratives.

I drop everything I'm doing when a new video from these two drop. Homework? It can wait. Cleaning dishes? It can wait. Giving my wife a break? She can wait lol

RE Reflecting: I mentioned to someone (woke) that I would love to know what a certain brilliant deceased famous person would say about our times, on the whole range of politics from left to right, and he said, "You'd be disappointed." I said I couldn't be because I simply want to know what they would think. And he continued insisting I'd be disappointed, implying that the famous person would take the opposite stance of my own. It was really hard to convince him that I COULD NOT be disappointed, because I simply want to know what that person thought, and even if it was opposite to my own leanings, I'd be interested to hear the person's "whys." And I think that is a huge part of the problem, as you both are saying. People do not even understand what it means to reflect. They do not understand or feel the need to turn issues over and examine them from all angles, whether a few degrees off or 180 degrees. To hear something that does not fit snuggly into their own world view is to be automatically disappointed, and there is no curiosity around alternate viewpoints. And maybe that is the curse for those of us who cannot help being that way. Life would be so much easier if we didn't turn stuff over in our heads and, as a result, see things in this heterodox way. And of course I always wonder WHY this seems to be a scarcely found trait (which I think has less to do with "intelligence" than a need for logic and justice (not the fake kind)). Anyway, please stay the course and as always, thank you for all you do.

I really appreciate this discussion, I've been feeling defeated lately watching CRT take all our institutions hostage, yet this edifying discussion has renewed my vigor for fighting this with every drop of energy I have. Well done gentlemen, truly appreciate it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I admire your intelligence, your willingness to question, to think and to research, your articulateness and your determined courage. I lecture at a university in Texas and listening to your discussions gives me some hope that even in the circumstances of my educational endeavors that thoughtful and astutely examined ideas may prevail eventually.

May I make a suggestion? One thing that would help a lot is to re-brand Critical Race Theory to, say, Critical Race Ideology. Branding is huge in humans for some reason. All kinds of garbage is tucked under deceptive terms. Theories have a special place in our culture and in science. They explain things that previously were unexplained. They are also, as it happens, disprovable. (If you find evidence that contradicts a theory, you discard the theory. That is not happening here.) We also teach theories to school children. Ideologies, not so much. Marxism, Catholicism, Atheism are ideologies. So is CRT.

hang in there john and glenn.

I think that John would be a good president. He has great character, and he doesn't want the job, a combination that makes you the right man for the job.

Thank you guys for everything you do. If we are able to make it out of this tumult it will because of people like you.

First time hearing John McWhorter, very meticulous argumentation, I like him

You guys are needed!!!! More than ever!! Very few voices will be even remotely heard at this point in Time.

I'm always so impressed by the level of intellectualism in your discussions. I look forward to listening to Prof Loury and Tucker talk about the problems confronting our society.

I agree with you John- feel the same way- but we can’t leave our kids with this-you both have a great deal of meaning to offer- not your job but we sincerely thank you patriots

“Every time I turn a corner there is this person who is studiously non-reflective and telling me that it’s wrong of me to reflect, and is being elevated by the powers that be for the non-reflection” John McWhorter Yup.

Glenn and John are so far ahead of the National dialogue on race and black culture. Let’s just hope the rest of the country can catch up or we are done for. John is at a low point and I can relate to that. Let’s just hope things can be turned around.

Thank you for your viewpoints. I beg you to continue holding your stand firm openly and widely.

This episode is an excellent example of what is still good in this topsy-turvy paradigm we currently inhabit. There is a higher ideal and something left to fight for indeed. I say this as a Tucker Carlson viewer that has already watched the Fox Nation appearance in question. I'm an empirical example that Glenn's appearance was not made in vain. Cheers, gentlemen. Thank you for continuing the good fight.

I’m grateful that there are people having these honest conversations

I would love John to present a travel show, touring Europe and discussing the language and music.

@ 32:03 " this is not a world I want to be in"... I thank you for expressing my sentiments exactly. It would be so easy to retreat into our own private worlds, but we cannot give in to the Elect.

Masterpiece. You both are among The Bravest of this generation

I feel the same way as John. DEI is overwhelming every institution and it feels unstoppable.

The funniest thing about John being a liberal but somehow not equating all he has problems with (ie: being called uncle tom, not black, shunned if you appear on fox, protested on college campuses) all come from the left, the side he's aligned with.

Fox is not as bad as it used to be...especially Tucker Carlson. He was the only anchor who interviewed Tulsi Gabbard during the primaries and Bret Weinstein during the Evergreen "incident".

The best conversations. Thanks fellas.

Glenn and John, both of you have given me a excellent intellectual outlet during the past year. I don't know how i could manage without you. I wish you both the best and hope you continue to be one of the few sources of logic out there!!!

'Is there any way of stopping this?' Yes, John, and you and Glenn, who are not alone, are the way to stop it. It's a long road. This level of madness will take time, and it will change us, I don't know how, but it will stop. There's no end to idiocy. I tell my history students that history is largely the story of smart people doing stupid things, but there are heroes and geniuses, too. As long as those who value liberty, respect, and unity more than power or even security, we will stop this.

Thank you both for all you do.

You should go on the shows because it’s not about Fox, their viewers need to hear different opinions and perspectives. I’m a conservative and I always appreciate perspectives that I didn’t think of.

Don't quit! I believe truth will out. Sometimes you need faith.

I'm thinking of a favorite quote from Socrates "the unexamined life is not worth living"

Awesome to get two hours today. This was a fantastic conversation- one of your best!

I think John should consider that a lot of Fox’s audience are also on the fence on many subjects.

More people need to hear you, Glenn and John. I wish you would go on Joe Rogan for three hours or so!

Please stay strong, John and Glenn. Believe that there are many of us around the world (I am from Oz) that are with you all the way.

It’s important to remember that we aren’t alone.

24:10 my 5th grade teacher showed my class the entire 6-part series of Roots, even though it took us like two weeks to watch the whole thing. and he was actually the best teacher I ever had. but for more reasons than just that. RIP Mr. E

Don’t give up hope gentlemen. The country needs you.

Tony Timpa was a father too. No one will write a news story about that will they?

This helped me. I've felt discouraged. I remind myself that every reasonable voice must keep speaking. Together is the only way we have any chance. This is the moment. Its hard, its discouraging, but its also absolutely necessary that we fight for this country. I don't want to abandon the future of this country. I keep going for the sake of my child, if not for myself.

It is always an education when I listen to Mr. Glenn Loury and Mr. John McWhorter. Both are engaging, significant thinkers with tremendous depth of real substance - period.

One of the students from Juilliard is on here on YT, crying the whole time as she denounces the racism she faces at Juilliard, if you want to check it out.

You guys are the best. We are all so fortunate to have both of you.

Please don't give into them, Mr. McWhorter. If I didn't have you as a counter-voice to this "woke" ideology, I might feel like there was no hope at all. Please continue writing and fighting. I don't want to see America divided, and the fact that this ideology has reached the upper echelons of academia is frightening.

Being truly helpful is so much work with rarely any recognition. Raising kids to be functional adults. Going to work every day to keep the world turning. Wokeness offers all the recognition with out any of the work. The only thing they sacrifice is the truth. Which is incredibly easy if you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain in a new hierarchy that can be climbed by simply stating certain moral positions and beliefs.

Every week john agrees with glenn more and more

I’ve been feeling the same sentiment as John here recently. Thank you for coming out and saying it. “This is not the world I want to live in.”

This is the problem with no easy solution. “The two sides” don’t live in the same reality. When the side that will cancel anything and everything that they deem “problematic (doesn’t matter how far back you have to go, doesn’t matter how minor of it even is something that’s a problem)” which includes eating their own at a more alarmingly faster rate by the day, says it’s the *opposition* that is the main culprit… well… there’s not a whole lot you can do with a group like that. They are either being intentionally dishonest or they are so detached from reality it borderlines or is quite literally a mental condition. What exactly do you do with that? I’m personally on the Eric July/Michael Malice type side where unfortunately some of these people are not your people and they just never will be. I don’t want that to be the case, but when someone doesn’t prescribe to an honest conversation or reality, is there any other choice?

being a good dad does not include being a criminal and doing drugs

I can't believe how amazing it is to eavesdrop on your conversation. Thank you.

Gentlemen, You two are among several public figures that are the tip of the spear in this fight to return the American experiment toward the path of reason and some sense of enlightened purpose. Don’t give up that fight! The world needs voices like yours!

Can we all just figure out a way to get these two guys on the ticket in 2022?

If someone’s work is based on false information then they shouldn’t get tenure I don’t care who they are. Once the work was discredited she should have withdrawn it. I don’t know much about the whole body of work but there has to be a standard for tenure. A school of journalism should hold the teachers to a standard of honesty in their journalism. The question is did she deserve those awards? I don’t know.

These are quite possibly two of my favorite human beings on planet earth. Absolutely brilliant, a pure joy to listen to and if we are lucky catch some of their brilliant nuggets of insight.

thank goodness for these guys

(near the end) I don't agree with John on this particular matter. John definitely makes good point but I don't think Glenn should turn down the opportunity mere because he might have a "stink on him" by ignorant people. I think all academics should speak their truth and give very little attention to those who seek to pigeon hole them. Just my view.

As a descendant of a Scot, Braveheart is too painful for me.

I appreciate serious scholars taking this seriously and confronting it.

Critical thinking is an art that has been lost in our consumer driven society over the past 40 years. Thank you men.

We CAN NEVER GIVE UP !!!! Our future children are to precious to let down 💕🙏🇺🇲🗽💪

John wants to live in Mayberry! I've been thinking I might like Mayberry as well. We can all hang out at the barbershop and our biggest complaints will be about that sheriff's deputy.

You guys help retain my faith of staying around. Like John I also feel despair for the way things are going . Hang in there we need the voice of reason.

I wish more people would listen to you, understand you and believe you both

"Performative histrionics". Indeed. It's sad that such a thing exists.

I love John, but it's humorous to hear him characterize readers of the NYT or listeners to NPR as "middle of the road." My, my, my!

Another fine conversation, gentlemen. Thank you.

Gents, that was an amazing conversation and a privilege to listen to, thank you. I agree with Glenn that its tremendously important for the good of the world that neither of you retreat or "go quietly into that good night." Ideas are important and need to be debated because sometimes they are bad. Free speech allows this, making it also important and free thought first allows free speech. If I may, you gents are free thinkers. That is a gift and "to whom much is given, much will be required." Victor Hugo said " a stand can be made against invasion by an army, but no stand can be made against invasion by an idea." He never specified about whether the invading ideas can also be bad......

As pushback to the pushback to CRT in the schools, I am seeing headlines like "Conservatives don't want your Child to Learn our Real History". Huh? I just retired after years of teaching Virginia History. State standards cover colonization, slavery's arrival in Jamestown, the plantation system, Underground Railroad, emancipation, Reconstruction, share cropping, Jim Crow, the modern Civil Rights Movement, and so forth. A friend suggested it was likely taught from a "white" point-of-view, without moral comment. I can't imagine that being a credible way to make the content memorable for the Big Test. Even if it were taught that way, kids would pick up on the injustice. This is not 1950, 1960, or even 1970.

"unreflection as virtue" brilliant John!

I really appreciated Glenn appealing to John to "keep up the fight". The world needs you both.

Thanks guys!