A tough subject in flying, very well presented. There is some excellent info in here for the IFR flier. Great job!

The most tastefully done accident review I've ever seen. Thank you.

This is so sad and heartbreaking. Ron / Janis I think you did a fantastic job of wading through the report and finding all the things that struck you as odd from the vantage point of a newer ow hour pilot and calling them out. May the family rest in peace.

A great but heart wrenching summary of this tragic event. I know Dan lost two friends and he made it a mission to save lives.

Oh man this is so sad. You guys did a great job of breaking down the accident. Wishing you guys all the best in 2021.

Very sad stuff and lots of important things to keep in mind. Merry Christmas and keep up the good work!

Thanks for sharing, and for the respect with which you approached & filmed this. From a controller and CFI who is actively developing a training course for controllers, you have my full support 1000% that the most important word in a pilot's toolbox is "unable." Please don't ever let ATC pressure a pilot.

Very tastefully done. I would have been hesitant as well. Your back and forth was interesting with your aviation background.

Good reporting. Your humanity was Deeply present as you presented this tragic information to other pilots

Heartbreaking. Great job, guys.

Nice job - very nice recap and in-depth look at his route and ATC clearances. I hope to see a lot more videos!

Very sad video but thanks to this channel for bringing a few things to light to help pilots learn! As a current ATC, 32 years, and also a pilot, I read about terrain issues with ATC almost everyday. It's very important for pilots to understand you are fully responsible for your safety when it comes to terrain and weather!! NEVER assume ATC will keep you clear of ALL terrain and/or weather, you MUST take this responsibility on yourself. ATC is great at AC separation but struggles sometimes with terrain and weather. NEVER accept a clearance that violates any chart altitudes, don't assume the controller knows better! ATC is not god as his wife said so don't look at them that way. We want you to get home safely also but our consequences aren't quite the same as yours!

Excellent job you guys of breaking down the series of events that took place. Respectfully done in the keeping the family in mind. Many red flags-----IMHO, all the amended clearances would have been enough for me! Awesome video, I can almost guarantee this will catch the attention of many! Thanks for sharing!!!!!

Very Sad tragedy for the family. Your review is well done, my friends 👍. Thanks for sharing and enjoy your holiday season 😀.

Love the content. Couple teeny things you can easily do that will transform the experience for the viewer. 1. Use body mics - it eliminates the boom echo which is actually louder than your speaking voices, which brings me to 2) avoiding “Bob Ross Syndrome” - particularly when doing the voiceover sections, connect your breath to your voice using your intercostal muscles and keep it supported throughout. That will keep resonance in your voice which right now keeps fading into an ASMR unvoiced percussive whisper (which is fabulous for those with insomnia, but a little too soothing for everyone else zzzzzzz), and 3) 86 the music - you don’t need it and it only makes it harder to hear. This is great stuff you’re doing - keep it up!

What a tragic accident you guys did a great job researching for this video, Happy New Year!!!!

Merry Christmas to both of you and hope you have a Happy New Year!! Our plan is to go visit you guys when you visit IL!!!!

The red flag edits was a great idea. I think you both did an amazing job with this case study. I hope you had a very merry Christmas. By the way I seen you in flight the other day at 7725 feet and 81 knots. 😁

thank you for this report. But I find the background music superfluous and distracting.

It was tough....tough to do for sure...tough to watch...but thank you....thank you for pushing thru this to educate us....for prevention.

Great job of covering this tragedy with respectful tones and aplomb. I don't know if I could do nearly as well as you folks did and I'm sure I would have to stop many times too. But the best take away is perhaps someone just you or even you yourself may think think twice about this situation and determine to not fall into the old "get home itis" trap or the "I think I can make it" syndrome. It's unfortunate that I have known of 3 different pilots in my time who fell victim to ignoring those red flags. Like Janis said so correctly, we never know what it's like unless we were there at the time and place of the situation. Nothing is to be gained by placing blame on anyone, but for me any little grouping of problems would begin to raise my red flags. When too many things seem to be against you it's time to re-evaluate just how important is it to get home right now? Some people may take issue with this statement but wintertime flying in Moutains of high altitude and rough terrain in a single engine aircraft can be very risky and often is pushing the limits of you and your aircraft to the very edge. As pilot in command we can't just think of ourselves but must also always consider the lives of passengers if any are with us. You are to be commended for your coverage of this accident Ron & Janis. You both have what it takes to convey the message well and with the proper tones.

WOW! Thank you and great insights!

As you know I fly this area regularly. There is no way I would ever have attempted this, not going to happen. There are about 2 -3 months out of the year that you have a shot at not icing up. Even then if an emergency arises you have zero options. When you can see there is limited options but in IFR its a death sentence. Come out and I’ll be happy to take you to KJAC.

So crazy to have to dissect this case. If it ended ok, no one would raise an eyebrow. Reminds me of that movie sliding doors. Thanks for walking us through this case. Very sobering and also reminds me to always appreciate who is with you at this time. Stinks that there was so many red flags.

I thought you guys did a great job on this. Very hard subject matter but there is always a lesson in one of these and so tragic because it was so preventable.

Thank you for doing this. This one hits home because I’ve spent a lot of time in this area. You briefly mentioned this as some of the “most remote areas in the lower 48.” I can tell you from both long time flight operations and backpacking/hunting in this area that it is. Once he got in to trouble he had absolutely nowhere to go. These mountains (Windriver Range) are some of the most rugged and beautiful, yet unforgiving landscapes you will ever see. I’ve been turned around in this area backpacking on the ground, let alone in IFR conditions with a plane that is rapidly losing performance, he didn’t have a chance once the events unfolded to a certain point. Again, thank you and my condolences to the family and all involved. Tragedy doesn’t even begin to explain. And the thing that makes it even worse if possible......and we say it time and time again when something like this happens..... completely avoidable.

You did a excellent job with Dan’s assignment! I jumped over to your site after watching you on Bryan Turners live stream. Very tragic story that hit me pretty good! I’m about a 75 hr pilot, haven’t flown in 15 years. Bought my first airplane, completed a flight review in the last month and started getting some time in the seat. I am close to the same age as the pilot in your review and live with 2 hrs from him. I took 2 of my kids for their first ride in the new plane on Christmas Day against my gut feeling of waiting until the weekend. I made a few mistakes and had a close call with a cross wind and icy runway. I’m still a little rattled by it and upset with myself knowing I made a few bad decisions with my kids lives in the balance. After watching this I had a confessing discussion with my wife about the flight and decisions. I will never again ignore the red flags and gut feeling! Thank you guys for doing this for Dan and sharing it with me! Chris Olson “Worldslastrealman”

Thanks. I hope Dan Gryder is proud of you both. You did so well that I encourage you to do another crash investigation. Yes, 4 people are dead from that crash. Nothing will ever change that. Put your thoughts on the living - you might save one of us. Good luck to you both. I have no idea how complex and time-consuming this work is. So let me acknowledge your persistence and careful analysis.

“Every plane with ice is an experimental aircraft flown by a test pilot,” says my 90 year old CFI who was a commercial pilot for 40 years in WA Srate earlier in life and who is deadly fearful of ice.

Fantastic presentation keep up the good work.

Well presented, would prefer not to have the background music

Great review.....tastefully and respectfully done from a GA pilot perspective ....Thank you!

Came from Dan, loving the channel.

Excellent job! Thank you!

Very nice job. Tough but valuable.

This was a very thoughtful & respectful report. You may only have a few hundred hours of fly time but you have certainly assimilated a lot of important minutia. It is also apparent that you both listen well. I can see how hard this was for you guys. And I can also see why Gryder stays so "fired up". This was truly a tragedy and I pray for the family.

Ron/Janis, you guys did a superb job in the accident narrative you presented...I certainly could understand your dilemma to proceed or not to do this accident analysis. These are real lives you are discussing here and it is sad that this flight had the outcome it had. However, may you have a great impact to help other pilots to avoid this type of situation into their flying future and fly more safe. Thank you again for your kind endeavors to help all of us pilots! Don/NE Ohio Note: By the way, I'm wearing my P4TC sweatshirt & putting it to good use! :-)

Great job Ron & Janis.

Thanks for this analysis. I agree with the "no music" request. It's distracting.

Great presence, very well done.

THIS pilot, husband and father of 3 is now rather sad after watching this. You both did a fine job breaking this down. That had to have been tough. I would not have been able to stay composed.

l was thinking about the comment i was going to write . but after reading others comments they said it all . thank you for your heart felt insight into this tragedy .

You did well to get through this. When there's a major accident it seems like it's rarely just one thing. There often seems to be a cumulative series of things that go wrong before the event happens. Teasing out the details is important to understanding not just what went wrong but what can be fixed. I know this was hard to do but you may have improved future decisions made by someone else. That's a pretty big deal.

In a Dan Gryder video recently he had a list of items. Any two items would scrub the flight for most GA airplanes. Those were: NIGHT IFR ICING TERRAIN In this scenario there were 3 of the 4 conditions.

Ron and Janis, a somber and difficult job... respectfully conducted. Thanks. Wayne Can you provide a link to the NTSB report?

Raises lots of unanswered questions on the routing from ATC that boil down to why? And lesson is “unable” and stay on ground if you don’t feel comfortable.

Excellent job. Thank you so much for digging into this accident and reviewing the details that you learned. I have a few suggestions. First, since you are new at this I wish you would have introduced yourselves and given a little background. Are you both pilots? What and where do you fly? I think a brief bio in the intro provides context and helps your viewers connect with you. Second, I like that you told about the pilot and his passengers, but I want to know more about the pilot and his experience and ratings? Was he current with instrument proficiency? How long had he had his instrument rating? What kind of navigation equipment did the plane have? Also, great intel and discussion on the oxygen issue, a very important piece of evidence that would have influenced the pilot’s decisions. Discussing a Mooney 201’s performance capabilities with charts showing its altitude capability would have been helpful. I real liked how you brought the red flags up in your discussions and I LOVE the format with the two of you discussing the issues. Finally, your point about telling ATC unable was well made. This guy got out into a situation that led him into a high terrain in an off airway route. I fly my Turbo 210 in the mountains every month and rarely on an airway with published MEAs, and I am often cleared between two waypoints below the published grid MORA. I wish there were a way to depict those altitudes. If the Mooney pilot had seen the 16,000’ requirement coming up along his route, he might have requested (insisted on) a different route. Just a few days ago I was cleared between to waypoints at 14,000’, but when I asked to deviate for weather they required me to climb to 15,000’, even though that wasn’t published anywhere on a chart. Finally, I loved the close with the famous Isaiah verse, very nice touch. Keep up the good work and do another one. PS, I’m a very senior airline captain, and a GA pilot for over 48 years.

Well done.

Solemn video and really well handled. I only have one correction... Janis IS a pilot. 😎. Got the first hour done.

Thank you.

This was a great accident review, your delivery was flawless, I thought. I also noticed several comments disliking the background music. I must disagree, I had no problem with it and thought it added appropriate somberness to your narrative.

Excellent video! Aviation tragedies are mostly the sum of small errors. I’m following for sure. And those people complaining about the music and the audio are most likely non-pilots. If small stuff like this throws their focus off that quick then they don’t belong on a plane’s cockpit. Dan Gryder, Scott Perdue, Paul Bertorelli, Aviation 101, Blanco Lirio and now Parr 4 the Course on my list of go to aviation channels.

Very sad! The biggest red flag in my opinion is using a J model mooney to fly winter IFR in the mountains. A 20J lacks the climb rate and service ceiling to deal with anything but the best conditions. I would say a turbo charged piston with Deice capability would be minimum, some say turboprop or jet. It's unfortunate because it means the average guy gets priced out of winter flying except for extreme VFR but it's what you have to deal with when you live in the mountains. If you aren't from the mountain areas please don't assume because you do fine in the eastern US that you should be fine in CO, WY, UT, ID etc. You will need to be able to get to the flight levels fast and stay up there. If your plane can't do that then wait for VFR to fly. I wish that commercial flight had worked out, it was the only right choice in this situation.

Anybody else notice the plane N number and the title are different?

First time I watch this channel. What I heard and saw was enough to make me a subscriber. I immediately understood I was watching serious and responsable people when I heard the name Dan Gridder name being mencioned. If I'm allowed the comment, music woul be better if slightly lower on volume

What a difficult subject to talk about! Very sad!

excellent, but pls better no background music than this floating yoga vibes - no offence ;-))

Hello from Weston Fl! First I would like to respectfully say that you make a very nice couple flying! With regard to Dan’s request to ask you to review an accident, I could not agree more with him, first of all because it is precisely low time pilots who could benefit the most from his TITANIC efforts to get this information responsibly to us so that we can avoid falling into the same trap and a reminder to older more experienced pilots to fight “Complacency” !! It takes a lot of discipline to Never get behind the command of an airplane, no matter the size or weight, and pretend nothing is going to happen! If you do mot feel well, relaxed, focused and with the right attitude to fly... DO NOT! Don’t tomorrow ! Do not leave for the airport or walk away from it! I have do it! It works and it pays! Today, due to health reasons I may never fly again! Im in the hands of God! But I can assure you that recognicing when you ate not in the best shape and attitude to fly will save you and as importantly yhoa innocen passenger along with you for the ride!

That Mooney did not have the performance to fly in that area in that weather.

Awesome scary music

Great video. If you need the music, please decrease the volume so that it's not distracting. Also...camera angles are changing too quickly. Small stuff, really. Just distracting from the message, which is outstanding!

The background music very distracting. I had to rewind a few times to catch exactly what you said.

Flying over the mountains in clouds with icing conditions in a Mooney without icing protection was suicide. Even with the turbo Mooney with TKS it would give me pause. The Rockies are not just a ridge of mountains they are mountains for as far as the eye can see. And even if there is no forecast for ice once you get over mountains there will be micro-climates that can create ice. When relatively moist air is lifted by the mountains that air will be cold and just waiting for that wing to disturb it and create ice. In those condition there is no "out" and you are relying of luck. You are betting your life on that luck.

So he both calls out low time pilots investigating and asks low time pilots to investigate lol

Talk or play music, not both.

The opening was a little too creepy. No offense, just personal opinion.

Don't drag it on.. get to the point.. ditch the music !

"Bad sound makes good video look bad." Please learn to use body microphones. And, your addition of superfluous music made this recording even less intelligible and more unpleasant to hear. Also, no improper and unnecessary dissolves.

This flight was doomed when he left. Weather was perfect for icing. High altitudes and one engine aircraft in mountains and crap weather. ATC cant know your experience and mods on a plane. You better have situational awareness on a vector. I am a high time GA with a Baron and would never had left the airport. I know because I made a stupid decision and only hand of god and being an avid reader of flight safety materials saved me. My auto pilot couldnt take the chop and was stalling my plane. Ice kills in less than 60 seconds. I never criticize the man. I wasnt there. Take a moment for Mom. I cant even imagine.

Great analysis but get to the point faster

That background noise needs to go, could not watch the video!

Can we talk about this annoying spa music overlay

Too bad he didn't look at his boys , think he's dad and responsible for his sons , and decide nah, bad vibe, not doin this . There's no shame in changing your mind , aborting . Those are smart decisions. Error on the side of caution . Very sad. Often the case .

Kill the damn music.

I don’t want to be overly critical (😁) but the awful audio part of this presentation pretty much ruined it for me. horrendous “music” was a deal breaker.

The background wind music sounds are very annoying to me. I would love to hear your content without it.