Keynote: Safety, Security, Safety and C / C++ - C++ Evolution - Herb Sutter

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Keynote: Safety, Security, Safety and C / C++ - C++ Evolution - Herb Sutter - ACCU 2024

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Ай бұрын

ACCU Membership: tinyurl.com/ydnfkcyn
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Keynote: Safety, Security, Safety[sic] and C/C++[sic] - C++ Evolution - Herb Sutter - ACCU 2024
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As the world’s threats and dangers evolve, so too must our tools. Sometimes a tool can evolve sufficiently to be useful in a new environment. Other times, a tool has to be used less or exchanged for a different one.
This talk addresses several questions:
- Why does the title say “safety” twice?
- Why is “C/C++” an essential term to embrace, not avoid?
- Is distinguishing “C vs C++” a True Scotsman problem?
- What is recognizably “C++” as C++ continues to evolve?
- Why hope for major improvement in C, C++, and C/C++?
Finally, the talk will also cover a few other updates about other C++ evolution (including reflection!) and from my personal ongoing experiment with my cppfront compiler.
Slides: accu.org/conf-previous/accu2024/
Sponsored By think-cell
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Herb Sutter
Author, chair of the ISO C++ committee, software architect at Microsoft.
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The ACCU Conference is the annual conference of the ACCU membership, but is open to any and all who wish to attend. The tagline for the ACCU is 'Professionalism in Programming', which captures the whole spectrum of programming languages, tools, techniques and processes involved in advancing our craft. While there remains a core of C and C++ - with many members participating in respective ISO standards bodies - the conference, like the organisation, embraces other language ecosystems and you should expect to see sessions on C#, D, F#, Go, Javascript, Haskell, Java, Kotlin, Lisp, Python, Ruby, Rust, Swift and more.The ACCU Conference is a conference by programmers for programmers about programming.
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ACCU Membership: tinyurl.com/ydnfkcyn
2024 Program: accu.org/conf-previous/accu2024/
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Пікірлер: 28

@Ikkepop 6 күн бұрын

always love Herb's presentations, alot of charisma

@dariuszantoniuk 7 күн бұрын

Great talk, finally we can see Herb come to terms with what needs to be done to fix the issues. What's sad is that all of this took 5 years of denial, hostility towards people pointing out the problems, manipulating definitions, etc. Finally the need to catch up with Rust's state of the art safety support is acknowledged and the plan is somewhat plausible.

@tomkirbygreen Ай бұрын

Really enjoyed this Herb, thank you!

@Roibarkan Ай бұрын

16:15 JF Bastien’s talk from CppNow 2023: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fc5nbNqUrLDIhJs.html

@Dominik-K Ай бұрын

This talk is highly interesting, very good points

@mc4ndr3 Ай бұрын

When has Stroustrup ever agreed to break backwards compatibility in the name of basic safety or security guarantees? He doesn't even support a builtin package manager. Rather than wait a century for reasonably high quality defaults, adopt a modern systems language. Even Go can do the job for the vast majority of applications.

@peramoredellanalisi4341 3 күн бұрын

What bothers you exactly?

@markramirez3920 7 күн бұрын

Developers just can not instantly migrate all software from C/C++ to other P.L.s just because "it's safer", we need to add features and best practices for existing and new C/C++ safe software ...

@Onyx-it8gk Ай бұрын

Circle is without a doubt the most promising development for C++. Too many people unfortunately can't set their egos aside to give it the attention it really deserves.

@greenmatrix5303 8 күн бұрын

I don't follow. Why are you talking about Circle? What does that have to do with cppfront?

@AntiProtonBoy 6 күн бұрын

Less to do with ego and more to do with tooling support, the effort to migrate and established ecosystems.

@krumbergify Ай бұрын

Great talk as always! Question: With so many copyright holders, will you be able to change the license of Cppfront to a free license?

@Roibarkan Ай бұрын

I believe the license is creative-commons

@krumbergify Ай бұрын

@@RoibarkanYes, but using NC (non-commercial) and ND (no derivations). This means cppfront can’t be included by default in any GNU/Linux-distribution, no company can use it and those contributors Herb celebrates are technically not even allowed to provide pull requests since that involves modifying the sources. Because of that it is hard to take cppfront seriously until Herb switches to a free license.

@jaycarlson2579 11 күн бұрын

I am supper impressed with the improvement of C++Front

@dascandy Сағат бұрын

No, Herb, @1:07:00 std::regex is horrendously bad in so many ways the best we can recommend is "do not use, ever". I have a draft paper to mark it as "deprecated, please do literally anything else". Do you want that submitted?

@gast128 22 күн бұрын

I would have expected some concrete examples of not secure C++ code. Bounds checking could be enforced in a profile by banning operator[] and requiring 'at'. This will cost some performance though (i.e. suppresses compiler optimization). From the past I know that regex are expansive to create. Perhaps also to execute compared to a simple search.

@mc4ndr3 Ай бұрын

Rust is imperfect. However, rewriting in Rust provides a direct path to safety. If performance is still an issue, rewrite in Verilog.

@Onyx-it8gk Ай бұрын

@@mc4ndr3 Rewriting everything in Rust is not at all a realistic solution. I mean, heck, so much infrastructure still runs on COBOL. Given the state of C++, I don't recommend starting any new projects with it. In that case I would instead use Rust.

@AdrianMNegreanu Ай бұрын

just adopt Circle as c++2x

@MarcEspie 2 ай бұрын

one big question is, why is C++ default regexp so slow compared to perl ?...

@lorandpetok6044 Ай бұрын

From what I've heard the limitations are caused by abi backwards compatibility.

@freak82music Ай бұрын

The reason, that I know and is mostly cited in the community, is that they did some "bad" decisions in the implementation but now they can't change it because this will be ABI breakage.

@aniketbisht2823 Ай бұрын

ABI issues.

@flflflflflfl Ай бұрын

how is that relevant to this talk?

@krumbergify Ай бұрын

I don’t understand why it is impossible to fix. Why can’t they wrap the old and the new data structures in a union and stay abi compatible?