Frequency Response: What’s a good response in a treated room? (measurements)

Frequency Response: What’s a good response in a treated room? (measurements) - AcousticsInsider.com

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3 жыл бұрын

►► Need to find your room's low end sweet spot? Get the FREE guide to the Bass Hunter technique → www.acousticsinsider.com/bass...
Have you ever wondered what a GOOD frequency response in a studio actually looks like?
Cause it's not like you see a lot of them floating around. Pro studios and acousticians definitely seem to like keeping 'em under wraps..
How much does it actually improve with treatment?
And what changes exactly?
Well, let me show you. I think you'll be surprised.
Related blog post on Acoustics Insider:
www.acousticsinsider.com/blog...
Resources in this video:
www.roomeqwizard.com/
Acoustics Insider - Home studio acoustic treatment techniques for audio professionals, but without all the voodoo.
www.acousticsinsider.com/
Acoustics Insider on Social Media:
/ acousticsinsider
Jesco Lohan - Mixing Engineer
jescolohan.com/

Пікірлер: 111

@SHARt_murmur 3 жыл бұрын

Your channel has singlehandedly brought clarity in my understanding of room acoustics, thank you!

@joelwolski 2 жыл бұрын

Best and most helpful video on acoustics I've yet seen. I love the distinction you highlight between frequency response and time response.

@RoyThompsonAudio 3 жыл бұрын

Such good information! I can't get enough of it, Jesco!

@johantt2591 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, this was very clarifying on a complex theme in an extremely accesible way. Very helpful! I built a home studio before in a room that I couldn’t really influence the dimension on, but now I am planning to build a second one from scratch and this channel will be very useful.

@maxmus9854 2 жыл бұрын

Man... You can't even imagine how you helped me... It's not just fixing my room acoustic.. It's more. Thank you, bro!

@SunsetWingman 2 жыл бұрын

This channel is super under appreciated. Best explanations by far

@komet1536 Жыл бұрын

This channel is a pure treasure if you are interested in improving your home studio acoustics. Many thanks! The message of this specific video helped me finally to understand where to set my goals and what to expect in my own acoustics project and comparing results of different improvement stages using REW.

@Splitbrainmusic1 3 жыл бұрын

Some of the best acoustic explanations regarding room treatment I came across. Well done Jesco :-)

@nicoquebec 3 жыл бұрын

Wow, so clear, and very good explanations. It helped me to understand better what happen in my room and my graphs! thank so much

@robertroycegroome2953 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video! It helps me clearly understand what is a reasonable outcome with all the work that goes into treating the room. Taking before and after graphs and noticing only marginal changes can be extremely disappointing but I now see this is the norm in small rooms.

@MichaelFirmont 2 жыл бұрын

I think this was the first time I really understood the effect of absorbers. Your channel is amazing!

@PeterBatah 3 жыл бұрын

Clear and precise as always. A real joy to watch and hear. No bells and whistles. Just the cold hard facts. The only thing that is missing in my room...is YOU

@JackofAllMinistries 2 жыл бұрын

SOOO helpful! I'm looking at my graphs in a panic, and now I feel like I have a handle on it. Thanks so much!

@leandrosilva6414 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this videos! Very interesting to see what normally looks like in a real world acoustic treated room! Cheers!

@matthewblue7839 3 жыл бұрын

Good sensible analysis and commentary, very helpful !

@fumpt 3 жыл бұрын

Clear and educational analysis. Thank you. I’d take reduced, even RT over even frequency response any day 🙂

@m.i.stapes 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing all the knowledge man! You're doing a great job.

@JoshNamba 3 жыл бұрын

Wow that was really insightful! I didn't even know that time response played a big role in mixing

@SoundFriendly 3 жыл бұрын

A pitty that you didn't include pictures of the rooms too. Nevertheless, great advice.

@Canadian_Eh_I 3 жыл бұрын

You're channel is awesome and very helpful, thanks !!!

@williamchen33 3 жыл бұрын

Best acoustics videos I’ve seen yet! Could you share what settings you’re using for the waterfall plot??

@santiagovanegas3812 9 ай бұрын

Finally! Someone who really knows what they're talking about, and knows how to talk about it. This video is extremely helpful. Thanks!!!

@UmaRecordings 3 жыл бұрын

Surprising. I was wondering why all of my very thick panels made so little difference. Keep up the good work mate.

@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын

I bet you have lovely waterfalls now though 🤣

@trixdropd Жыл бұрын

I watch your videos all the time. I just realized I wasn't subbed and I fixed that for you. Great content! I added 16 panels to my room and it's a world of difference. The low end needs to be better though. I am about to go to work to figure it out. It's better than ever though

@maaaquemeseyo 3 жыл бұрын

Thx Jesco! Great information.

@Aviator168 8 ай бұрын

Great information. Thank you. My solution is to position the speakers closer to the listener and away from any walls/furnitures, and listen with a much lower volume. Kind of turning the speakers into a headphone.

@brendanlawton7518 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome explanation. The biggest thing most of us forget is it isn't a magic Band-Aid that can fix a lousy location. It's mainly to improve a good situation.. Thanx Jesco

@azbassclarinet Жыл бұрын

Excellent video, Thank you !

@professorwhaley 3 жыл бұрын

Great breakdown!

@danmcbmusic Жыл бұрын

Echoes my own experience. I installed 15 larger absorbers, the frequency response didn't get that much better, but rt60 went from 1.7s to 0.7s in the low end, and 600 to 300ms from 100Hz up. Playback of music is infinitely clearer, in bass and mid, and stereo image is also clearer. Several people have remarked (spontaneously) how clear things sound. And I didn't even start fixing the obvious early reflections yet. Delighted with the result, it's such a pleasure to listen there, and far less fatiguing.

@juliusklaas 3 жыл бұрын

Super interesting. We’re not improving frequency response, but the reflected response (by lowering it).

@yona9798 3 жыл бұрын

Great video, I feel like this is something more people should be educated about. I'd love to know what the decay looks like in a well treated room though. The room I'm currently in has a very linear decay time and it sounds way better than the one I used to mix in, but I'd love to know how it compares to ones that are actually treated...

@daltonroperez9296 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this, brother!

@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын

This video is a game changer for home studio owners. Once we sort out the time factor can EQ do the rest for us?

@AgustinDavidF 3 жыл бұрын

Very nice explanation of a not so easy subject! New subscriber here ;)

@mathieufleury6787 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for sharing

@kritischinteressiert 3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. Thank you! Do you think diffusers would do a better job in flattening the freq-response in general? So, absorbers for reverberation, diffusers for flatness?

@sarinsahil 3 жыл бұрын

Very insightful! Thanks Jesco :)

@martzooo 3 жыл бұрын

Just realized one of your reference track in the bass hunter technique is one I used to DJ a LOT ! I know it so well I might get it on my reference list :D Monte "True" great sunny vibe

@martzooo 3 жыл бұрын

And placing my PSI A16 with your technique, I'm excited to hear the difference. Thanks for what you do I watch your videos every day

@ts4gv 3 жыл бұрын

After improvements to the decay times of the room, a relatively smooth EQ compensating for the room’s frequency response could leave one with a great sounding room (at the measured listening position, at least), right?

@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын

I'd like to know this too, as all articles I have read say EQ compensation doesn't work because of the time factor but maybe if we can get the waterfall right it could work. I hope so.

@JulianFernandez 3 жыл бұрын

makes sense. thanks!

@wintersthrall 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, so it's the decay time particularly from the details (2k-6k, mids, upper mids and low highs) between 10 and 20 ms (I'm reading) that kills details: our brains can't decipher reflection from source in the first milliseconds. Reflections with 10-20 ms cause "smearing", the filters which destroy the stereo image. The spectogram is useful for understanding that too.

@XKwiziteRecords Жыл бұрын

I think I broke the replay button this video... Spent a solid day hunting the bass.. sadly, where I liked the bass feeling the most was hella awkward to setup a desk (aside from converting my whole room solely for production). I settled on the 'direction' I wanted to setup (facing a window) and just measured different spots/speaker locations along the mid room axis until I got the most 'flat' base measurement (currently about 9DB from peak to trough). Hope as treatment gets installed I can bring that down to a solid 6DB variation!

@DjClimamusic 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much Jesco! :)

@PiriyaSambandaraksa 3 ай бұрын

Thank you, this is a lifesaver.

@johnplainsong9769 8 ай бұрын

Your information provides sanity to home-studio acoustic madness.

@lyanporto 3 жыл бұрын

I noticed in the waterfall graph that the lower frequencies still have a longer decay. Doesn't that create a sort of boominess when the mid and high ranges decay quickly and the low end remains?

@adventrising360 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jesco , really appreciate your videos ..I have learned a lot from them . Wanted to ask you, if the low end of my Monitor's frequency response can't go below 70 hertz ..will I still get an accurate representation of my room's response through REW .

@RaymanuelMuzik 3 жыл бұрын

Great info !!!

@spacesignals 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks jesco! 👍

@tjkadar 3 жыл бұрын

I feel a lot better about my room's measurements now. Caveat: mine is a listening room and not a mixing room.

@kerymichael1849 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I was wondering why my bass traps weren’t changing the rooms frequency response. Even making it worse?! I’ve got to figure out where to place my monitors.

@CB-gi2rx 3 жыл бұрын

Based on your guidance, untreated I am already within about a 10-15dB when the psychoacoustic filter is applied. Granted, the waterfall is atrocious, but should I be re-calibrating my Scarlett 18i20 and/or ECM8000? I followed the GIK guide on here. When no filters are applied then there's a ton of nulls - is that normal? Thanks for all of the amazing info, man!! Room: 151"x126"x93" / carpeted floor (ugh!) / 67.5 monitor spacing / 61.5 seating position (6" rear triangle setup) / 3" nearest monitor corner spacing from main wall for SBIR hacking :)

@giovanniiacuzzo4141 2 жыл бұрын

What do you think about using software like Sonarworks or hardware like the Trinnov ?

@Kah0ona 2 жыл бұрын

Is this also completely applicable for Hifi listening rooms? Or are there some caveats / changes to keep in mind?

@melvinrijlaarsdam4337 3 жыл бұрын

How did you treat that 120Hz peak? I have roughly the same problem.

@roysutanto9600 2 жыл бұрын

Room treatments should be considerable to the off axis frequency response (speaker directivity), that way it also change the sound perception. That is how the sound we hear, direct plus indirect sounds. And that hi frequency changes (3khz and up) is very audible (1-2 db at broad range octave frequency).

@johandeen6096 Жыл бұрын

Do you need to rerun audessey (or others) after you treated the room?

@Astro-ck6mh 3 ай бұрын

Are those graphics for stereo playback or one speaker at a time?

@brianmjackson 2 жыл бұрын

What differences should you expect to see between a treated room and then adding in Sonarworks? I ask because I hear a huge difference, but assuming I did the measurement correctly, it doesn't look much different.

@linguafranca86 Жыл бұрын

I have a lot of high frequency rolloff past 6K And it's only after seeing the frequency responses you showed in this video. I just thought this was quite common. My speakers have a high shelf filter at 5 K, maybe I just need to use it. Or maybe the behringer ECM8000 is just not very good as a measurement mic.

@MisterLeeMusicOfficial 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome 👏

@elblopex 2 жыл бұрын

what are the panels you were using?

@QFXmusic 3 ай бұрын

Why do we will build sound absorbing panels Flat ? Would they not be better to be curved ?

@gooshie3 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@behindsociety4919 3 жыл бұрын

Whats measurement mic do you use?

@123brummer 3 жыл бұрын

I'd love to hear your opinion on Sonarworks

@Chasenwajaé 3 жыл бұрын

Meeeeeee tooooo

@rosalindacaseley6996 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant 😎

@TheSLFloW Жыл бұрын

Hey dude, in 6 min of video is 45dB fall, do you think you measured it right? How you measured it?

@guitarocks95 2 жыл бұрын

Thnx for sparing us the voodoo

@rb032682 3 жыл бұрын

good stuff

@sel6412 2 жыл бұрын

How I can test my studio frequency response

@StellaWembley 2 жыл бұрын

I don't understand why my rew version looks different, and when I take measurments they look almost all the same, even changing position. Maybe the signal is low? There must be something I am doing wrong. Or maybe I can't read the graphics . Can you help?🙏

@Nickceid Жыл бұрын

What is your opinion on Room correction software (eg. Dirac) vs the physical treatment?

@Astro-ck6mh 3 ай бұрын

Room correction software cannot fix standing waves, reflection nulls and such. Room correction can help fine tune only, but it cannot replace room treatment and proper speakers/listening positioning.

@pco2004 3 жыл бұрын

Question: What's your take on monitor calibration vs room treatment in terms of price to performance? From watching this my take is all that significant expense of treatment didn't flat out the frequency response curve but it did pay off in the time response chart. In that regard, would monitor calibration (e.g. SonarWorks etc.) be a better return on investment vs room treatment or does that only effect FR and not time response? Hope this makes sense. Love your channel btw!

@Harald_Reindl 3 жыл бұрын

electronic can't do much for reverbs - you always need both

@pco2004 3 жыл бұрын

@@Harald_Reindl makes sense. thanks

@kemistr1 Жыл бұрын

Is there another way to measure room frequencies without the equipment?

@AlistairMaxwell77 2 жыл бұрын

my room is full of synths drum machines guitars amps speaker cabs... should i even bother with treatment?

@chumdinger8320 Жыл бұрын

After years of putting if buying some recording equipment, I finally broke down and did!!! …sent that shit back the next day.. far too overwhelming! I😂

@djentlover 3 жыл бұрын

Have you worked with bigger rooms? Do they seem to take less work?

@Harald_Reindl 3 жыл бұрын

they are clearly less work - look at the amplitude of 30 Hz which is around 10 meters - have fun in a room half of that

@Vocalisto 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Jesco, you're coming from Germany right? Are offering an individual room acoustic Plan for DIY Treatment? If so I'll right you an email

@DavideGuerri 3 жыл бұрын

if i remember correctly the optimal T60 for a control room should be around 300mS

@davelassell 2 жыл бұрын

So we can't fight the room into being flat unless we start with a blank slate. Got it. But if I basically treat the whole room, I've got a shot. Man I can't wait to get all this stuff built so I can do more MUSICS!

@fredygump5578 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the examples! I wanted to see some reference, because I am making a DIY version of the Genelec W371A speakers. I wasn't sure if they are actually better than dual subwoofers. So far I have achieved +- 5db from 20hz to 100hz, so I guess that's pretty respectable.

@ACIDGREENTECHNO 3 жыл бұрын

hm no milli seconds shown in the waterfall....... + long standig wave in the after placing the panels waterfall !

@byus6928 2 жыл бұрын

nice vid but kinda discouraging at the same time. I have more than 20 panels in my room and from 200 to 2000 is still pure madness. ive trapped 90% of my corners. most with 17" thick traps.the front 2 corners have 4" thick panels going across 4 feet of the corners floor to ceiling. im going to fill the gaps with treatment soon but your video kinda explains why there's barely the difference I want. I can clearly hear the difference entering the room (thats prob the decay time) but recording vocals still sounds shit. kinda boomy and the peaks and reflections. have a 6' by 8' 6" thick with 5 inch gap for my cloud too. its a struggle

@chukah9484 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah this made me more discouraged to acoustic treat the new room I’m moving too. Seems like it will definitely be too small for any reasonable quality and improvement.

@JosephHenryLuckinbill Жыл бұрын

❤

@Groovebox8 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Jesco, i tried sending several emails through your sites, but no replies. Please check your spam, i'm looking for an acoustic consultant. Thx

@recode8453 8 ай бұрын

i don't think less decay is better with that fr changes.

@superjoseco7279 2 жыл бұрын

If someone calls that FLAT, I will answer FLAT YOU. JAJAJAJAJAJA

@chukah9484 2 жыл бұрын

Hmm this was depressing and discouraging made me wonder if I should even bother with $5K treatment to get started with minimal changes. Please talk more about decay times and how significant I can expect those changes in waterfall graphs with 20 panels to effect my psychoacoustic perception. If doing 7 mix revisions vs doing 3 mix revisions is the difference between that much money it feels hard to justify especially when mixing infrequently in comparison to production and at most recording a single microphone.

@Hamachingo 2 жыл бұрын

Step 1: Figure out listening and speaker position Step 2: Work on your decay times with absorbers Step 3: linear phase EQ in your master bus. The delay when hitting pause/play is annoying but knowing what your ears get is perfectly linear is worth it. Turn it off when software monitoring though.

@Kobrar44 Жыл бұрын

Is linear phase eq that crucial though? EQ generally doesn't shift phase that much.

@theebob2008 3 жыл бұрын

So basically, there is no hope.

@seankennedy8506 3 жыл бұрын

Seems like it unless you have the perfect room and lots of cash

@theebob2008 3 жыл бұрын

@@seankennedy8506 So, I recently moved to a bigger room with no acoustic treatment. Room is like 25’ x 18’ x 8’. Mixes are better. I’m going to sell a lot of my acoustic treatment. I’ll probably still put up some acoustic treatment to bring down reverberation.

@erod9088 3 жыл бұрын

Most relatively small +/- 5 peaks and dips are not audible.

@chukah9484 2 жыл бұрын

I’d think it’d need to be less than 3db to not be audible since that’s the minimum level humans generally hear changes in

@erod9088 2 жыл бұрын

@@chukah9484 I can hear 2dB differences, but thats not the way these measurements work in real audibility. Two ears don't hear like one mic.

@ivanrains8529 8 ай бұрын

These add always have the same story line. This makes them suspect …

@tritonedelta3464 2 жыл бұрын

I encourage anyone reading this to move on from this channel quickly and see what other advice is out there from the people who actually do make impressive improvements in response curves. The fact that he is installing 20 panels in these rooms without putting any dent in the primary room mode (the lowest resonant frequency) is a huge fail. If any of these rooms are yours and he charged you a fee, you should be asking for your money back.

@klemenspichler400 2 жыл бұрын

Which channel would you suggest or what method would you recommend to fix the frequency response?