I was a member of a chess club for 5 years. The rules never changed. There wasn't any catapult expansions. We just played chess. The usual no-randomness setup, perfect information, completely predictable chess. It was great. Chess appears to have enough replay value for at least a few centuries.

That's such a cool system! I love the idea of tracking which games have unplayed content. I'm in exactly the same place with On The Brink! Sadly, I use the pre-ordered status for its actual purpose!

What if there is content you don't want to play? Let me clarify: I really really like Orleans Trade and Intrigue expansion. I will always play with the new deeds board because it scales so much better with player count and gives cooler and more varied rewards. The backside of that board is the intrigue board which doesn't appeal at all and every reviewer I heard despises that module of the expansion. Which means it will always stay pre ordered.

It's so funny that I do a similar thing with the "want to play", "trade", and "buy" options for how much I like or want the game. If something is "want to play" I'm slightly interested. But if I have Trade & Buy check marked, I really want to get that game soon.

Yes, Sushi Roll is a great example of a sequel done right, if it even can be called a sequel. I keep both and have no qualms with that decision, they are comfortably different games.

I also prefer Go. But Go is a weird one to compare to Sushi Go and Sushi Roll. :-p

Pandemic The Cure

That's a great point. Thanks for your insight Klemens!

This ⬆️⬆️

Thanks Adam! And I'm glad to see you back making videos - I love hearing your designer's perspective.

Glad I could help! But yes, I can see the dilemma! There are some fun additions you don't get with the original.

To be honest, we've played BB2 4 times, and it's just been a massive disapointment. There's no increasing tension, it doesn't feel like you're pulling a heist. The randomness renders any semblance of plans useless. The finales wreck the flow of the game and add nothing of value. BB1 is just a better game, with a stronger link between the theme, the mechanics and the experience.

That's an interesting perspective about owning the version your friends don't have - that makes a lot of sense.

I feel that. Recently, I've given away expansions for games I love because of the added hassle they bring.

@@actualol exactly! I love buying expansions because I love the base games, but I hardly ever use allot of them in the end 😅

@@actualol Any thoughts on the Pandemic expansions? I went through the modules recently and I wonder if they were to do a Pandemic 'Big Box' whether they'd be better off only taking a few bits from each expansion: -All the extra event cards -All the extra roles -The Lab board (maybe the best module of all of them) -The Virulent strain epidemics -Quarantines -The Superbug variant (and the other 24 cube purple disease) also - have 5 player character pawns, with something to slide the role cards in to to link the colour to the pawn so you don't get a few fairly closely coloured pawns at the same time I could actually do without: -The Bio Terrorist -The Hinterlands boards and die -The team vs team version -The Emergency Events and although it's small list it's a decent amount of content in the boxes that I'm probably never going to use

I don't personally like it when publishers re-use a theme by releasing a game in the same universe. I think it does a disservice to the second game that it can't stand on its own, and it usually wildly overestimates the popularity, importance and worth of the existing "universe" that they set both games in. BUT, I would say it does not fall in the category of the games I'm talking about. If the gameplay is completely different, then it is perfectly acceptable to own both, and I don't find a problem with its existence. I just wish that publishers were more daring with new, interesting themes. But I totally understand why they are not, because they are trying to capitalise on their existing audience.

Hahaha! See you there for day 1 of the Kickstarter!

I didn't mean to criticise Frosthaven, just point out that it's the biggest sequel out there. But yes, I would agree that with a narrative-driven game like that with limited content, more content is always welcomed, and therefore it isn't a problem to have many, many sequels.

@@actualol I have to work through the expansion decision with nearly every game I own. There aren't many that stand alone with no expansions. Quite a few fall into some middling ground I have a hard time truly quantifying their value (Everdell, Tapestry, Rococo Jewelry...though this latter came with the deluxe game). Others I have found bordering on necessary (Scythe, Viticulture, Firefly, Dominion). I think you hit on something pertinent in the industry being the quality of product and how to chose carefully ones investments. It's not easy, and I dread the day when quality disappears in an Ayn Rand sort of way with lesser items taking over the market due to less discerning consumers. I have watched a few great beers disappear from the market due to an attraction for cute labels and odd ingredients (odd ingredients can be ok, but are often gimmicky). Ah well, I could go on quite a useless while...thank you for great and enjoyable content 😎

One of the positive things to come out of the pandemic is that more games seem to be available to try before buying on Tabletop Simulator, Tabletopia, or even Board Game Arena. I often had trouble getting an opportunity to try games at conventions if they were popular, whereas now I can do it anytime just by gathering a few friends for remote play.

Yeah, I only really mentioned Frosthaven because it's the biggest sequel around - it's not a game I have a problem with. As you say, sometimes sequels can be treated as "2nd editions", and if they improve considerably on the original and ultimately replace it, then I don't have a problem with them. I also think the sequel rules don't apply in a campaign/story/legacy game where the game will eventually run out of content.

On the other hand, I did not enjoy Railroad Ink at all. But I backed Challenge, and I love it.

@@RadishTheFool Really? That's unexpected. What is the major difference between OG and Challenge, you think?

@@leandronc To me, those buildings on the board and the goal cards give me just that bit more specific purpose that I apparently need. Without them, I hopelessly overstretched myself because then my goal became too general: to build the perfect all-connecting route.

I'd say they are sequels too. But I would judge everything on its individual merits. Is each game different enough? And the answer will be different depending on who you are. I couldn't imagine owning more than one version of Azul (I don't own any!), but I do own Pandemic, Pandemic Iberia and Pandemic: Fall of Rome. I think that both those two sequel bring really interesting changes to the table. However, they do all still feel like Pandemic. Since Pandemic is one of my favourite games, and the designs are SO good, I can partially forgive that. But I am still frustrated by owning multiple sequels of the same franchise. And I am somewhat ashamed that I have encouraged the sequel trend with my purchases. I would rather Matt Leacock was encouraged to use his supreme talents to create something wildly different, but I also can't not fall in love with Pandemic: Fall of Rome just because I have a principle around sequels! It's tough!

@@actualol I want to say that maybe a distinction should be drawn between a 'true' sequel vs when it could be delivered in a better way as an expansion. I've not tried Railroad Ink (roll and writes don't particularly float my boat), but from the descriptions it sounds like you could just have 1 base game, and then sell lots of dice sets for variance (and maybe with a different top half of the player board as that looked different in each version). Burgle Brothers 2 sounds like it switches up a bit too much for it to be handled by swapping a few components in - there it seems a bit more justifiable to sell a complete new game. The Forbidden Island/Desert/Skies family qualify as sequels but all seem to be valid enough to exist even if some people only want to buy one particular member. I don't know if you're a wargamer, but you also could maybe consider the COIN series as a group of sequels. With reskins you can get in to further questions about reaching different markets (and maybe reskins are a video you can do as an addendum to this). SmallWorld and Pandemic have World Of Warcraft versions, and does this make it a good product if it increases the audience for the titles? What about the streamlined versions like Ticket To Ride London, or Pandemic Hotzone? Ultimately, I feel like the only ones I come down hard on is Railroad Ink - while the others seem like offering a variety for people who have a bit more of a specific taste, that one feels a bit more crassly exploitative in that it could have been done in a much simpler fashion for the audience

It’s absolutely legendary

But Jon!

Accentualol?

I can't help if that's exactly how they speak! 😂😂😂😂

I come to this channel to avoid American accents 😆

Yes, the extra rules teach means that I end up always opting for simpler versions.

In my experience, players in BB2 can also feel left out of the exciting action of the game, because they have to stay downstairs waiting to send dice back up to the safe. It may be improved, but that feeling of doing to the dirty work still exists, for my group at least.

Yes, I completely agree. I much prefer the smaller, simpler boxes. But I would imagine the profit margins on the bigger productions are greater, and perhaps it's easier for the company to thrive with these choices. Personally, I think the product design of a game is important for its long-term popularity, and I think Burgle Bros 2 might suffer long term for it. We'll see!

I thought Pandemic The Cure was different enough from the original its almost a different game - in soem ways I prefer The Cure as the original can be "gamed" with the sequences of cards re-appaearing while the Cure has dice so the randomness is higher...plus a more compact board

@@Spearca Or a soundtrack. Creators can do a full reprint by adding a generic soundtrack.

Haha! "Some" words! I'll take it! 😂

@@actualol On second thought, there are so many varieties of an “American” accent… I bet you would fit right in somewhere back in the Northeast (there are several accents in New England alone!) I’m so sorry if my comment was offensive… not intended. Accents are hard! And you do them brilliantly 🙂

@@actualol ALSO… I spelled your name wrong! I’m so sorry! (My 3 year old is named John. You are Jon. 👍)

@@carols-corner Oh, don't worry! I'm not offended at all. I have always been rubbish at doing accents - American and any other. I'm just happy that people enjoy the videos 🙂

😂😂

How about... Fury of Dracula 2: What We Do in the Shadows

Haha! Thanks 😁

No, I do agree, Frosthaven and other narrative-driven games are immune to the criticisms in the video. I was just saying it's a sequel, but not an unwarranted one!

Apologies, I only mentioned Frosthaven in passing because it was a very big sequel. But I fully agree, when it comes to narrative-driven games with limited content, then sequels like Frosthaven are entirely warranted. As for Uwe Rosenberg - I'm not particularly fond of those games so I haven't played enough of them to make a judgement. I have actually found his Tetris games to largely be distinctly different to warrant each iteration - they seemed to build on each other. Having said that, I would welcome him trying more completely new ideas - because if he can create something as iconic as Bohnanza, I would like to see him try his hand at other light games.

I played both, and I think that Marco Polo 2 is the better game for us. (Marco Polo one just feels worse now. Sooooo restrictive)

Queens Dilemma just got announced today! 😂

@@actualol OMG you're not joking around!!! I can't believe it! We played for the first time since the pandemic a few weeks ago and I joked "what if by the end of this game they go "yeah, maybe King's aren't so good, what if we became a matriarch society". Or...due to some story elements, it might make sense (again, I'm not done with the game, but we're pretty far).

I can't! I don't know! I own Iberia and Fall of Rome - but am I making a mistake? Maybe!

I've never played Clank In Space, partly because I was never interested in a sequel to an already great game - so I expect I would say the same. But without playing it, I can't be certain. Perhaps it improves on the original so much that it should be regarded as the definitive Clank!, but I doubt it!

Clank In Space is a gamery version of Clank. It takes a fairly streamlined game and bogs it down gating players. It also takes a lot of the teeth out of another player exiting the "dungeon" first. There's far less risk of death with In Space which means the right deck can churn points for several turns by stalling at an exit. It's also about 30 minutes longer to play. The only good aspect of Clank In Space is the card synergy. Many of the cards in the market row have factions. A faction's cards sometimes will syngergize with other cards of that faction. It means you can build towards a faction specific deck and benefit from it. Although, really, if you don't own Clank, then you should just buy the legacy version. You're getting a legacy game with all the fun that entails. But, you end up with a version of Clank with an expansion of content at the end. Plus, your version will be unique to your group with a slightly different board, some custom cards, and your own corporation. Just don't be afraid to use stickers and destroy cards.

Look for Fowers Games website, they distribute the game themselves, and deliver to a lot of countries. There's a link in the description.

@@actualol Thanks!

If you're interested, it may soon be playable on BoardGameArena which could be a chance to try it out if you haven't already done so

Haha, they don't even sound like that to me! My ears just have a poor connection to my voice box!

Well, I only own Paperback now, so that tells you where I land. Both are nice, but I was less fussed about the push your luck aspect of Hardback. And felt confident I really only needed one deck building word game in my life 😂

@@actualol I came to the same conclusion after playing the Hardback solo mode on BoardGameArena - I could see what it was trying to do with the Star Realms like combination effects, but that they were too hard to trigger, and the fact that only one colour of card would get you the eraser tokens really reduced the appeal of using 'Ink' and end up having to use a number of existing cards as wilds

I'd go with Burgle Bros 1.

@@actualol Appreciate it :D I feel the same way about Forbidden Island and Forbidden Desert. The first is simplier and just feels easier to get to the table when we are all a bit tired but also keen to play a game.