Addressing the 70 to 80% Dropout Rate of Converts

  Рет қаралды 1,965

Islam4Europeans

Islam4Europeans

28 күн бұрын

In this video I talk about the 70 to 80% Dropout Rate of converts to Islam, why many Muslim leaders are in denaial about it, and what we can do to address these issues.

Пікірлер: 75
@WhereThatLongGrassGrows
@WhereThatLongGrassGrows 26 күн бұрын
Asalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, I've been Muslim for 15 years, and I want to extend my appreciation for discussing this topic. Culturally oriented communities, no matter how well intentioned, simply don't have the insight to address all you've discussed. Jazakallah khayr
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
Wa alaikum Salam, Thank you! Indeed they don’t interact with our non-Muslim spheres and vice versa
@danielrajai3635
@danielrajai3635 25 күн бұрын
Things I have noticed as a revert who took my shahada 17 years ago. First I will say these issues may only be seen in the US, but may be applicable elsewhere. Sometimes the distance is very far to your closest masjids. Just my trip to my nearest masjid is roughly 45 minutes drive. This is doable for me, but requires a significant investment. 2. Most jobs in the west absolutely hate to give you Fridays off or even time to go to Jummah. The level of support for reversion is vastly different in many locations. KZfaq has been a huge help in my education. When I took my shahada, the extent of my of my education was a Quran and 2 print outs one for Wudu and 1 for Salah. 3. The masjids, at least in my area, are under lock and key most of the time. This makes it fairly uninviting if I stop by to do a prayer if I am in the area and don't even have a way to do wudu outside of the dust method. There are many hurdles that push a revert to not attending jummah and maybe eventually falling into apostacy.
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
European states are geographically smaller relative to the almost pan-continental US. Apples & oranges.
@Donotcare6
@Donotcare6 26 күн бұрын
O believers! Whoever among you abandons their faith, Allah will replace them with others who love Him and are loved by Him. Quran 5:54
@julinaonYT
@julinaonYT 26 күн бұрын
I've witnessed some of those: ● Breakup: The divorce one left Islam because they (openly admit) only converted for marriage in the first place. ● Rejector: The person who converted from reading Quran but then later read hadith so they left Islam. ● Seeker: The person who converted to Islam but left it for Zen Buddhism or Sikhsm etc. ● Trauma (a): The person who newly converted and was encouraged to married to someone, she did and he physically abused them so much using religious references (spiritual abuse) as excuse for bad behavior it traumatised her until she wants nothing to do with Islam. ● Trauma (b): The person who witnessed a community leader doing wrong things and felt let down etc, lack of justice, accountability & transparency etc
@JEAGERlST
@JEAGERlST 26 күн бұрын
You forgot to mention the most common one. Just wanting to party, etc.
@julinaonYT
@julinaonYT 26 күн бұрын
All converts can be the best ones to help other converts because The Companians were converts and they also could help each other at that time. Even there wasn't many of them. If a born muslim wants to help converts, that's great too.
@truthdisseminator
@truthdisseminator 26 күн бұрын
I really like the shorter videos that hold the attention and topics that nobody else discussing. Born Muslims face similar set of problems, too, especially if they have evolved beyond their ethnic communities or the next generation that is susceptible to the same set of vulnerabilities.
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
Thank you brother. Indeed these problems are definitely a thing for born Muslims as well, though the experiences are qualitatively more different.
@captainabez7086
@captainabez7086 19 күн бұрын
Great gems jazkallah khair
@SukhdevSingh-ge5rj
@SukhdevSingh-ge5rj 19 күн бұрын
Alhamdulillah Alhamdulillah 🕋🕌☪️💚☪️☪️ Allahuakhbar Allahuakhbar from Malaysia 🇲🇾🇲🇾🇲🇾🇲🇾🔻🔻😃😃👍👍💚💚💚
@hanzohattori9576
@hanzohattori9576 25 күн бұрын
It's not a major issue. It's actually quite normal in even born muslim societies. Even the first muslims took years to establish the religion. It takes even born muslims years to establish their religion. In Islam as long as you believe in one God, declare Prophet Mohammad (S) as the last and final messenger and have the intention and genuine effort (within your capabilities) to obey Allah's orders even if they are little efforts then you have already passed the main hurdle. And converts usually have passed this hurdle day one. They just burn themselves out by hopping up on that new convert high and forcing changes upon them unnaturally instead of taking it slow. So then the burn out makes them take it slow but that doesn't mean they aren't muslims or be thought of as being in a problematic situation. Perfection is not what Islam asks nor encourages. Might as well call people going through school or college and not yet being able to take the final exam of the final year a major issue. It's natural, it's expected. It's normal. It doesn't go against Islamic law and the converts in question themselves still call themselves muslims.
@philipclemoes9458
@philipclemoes9458 26 күн бұрын
This sounds marvellous, keep up the good work.
@AbdulKhader-786
@AbdulKhader-786 3 күн бұрын
Social isolation is of course a huge factor for the high dropout rate. The key to overcoming it is time and patience. Those who dropout are generally individuals who weren’t Muslim very long and quickly became disappointed. But if you persevere eventually you become part of the community. Keep regularly going to the same Mosque or set of Mosques and slowly you will gain the confidence of the other regulars and leaders of the community. Make an effort to get close to the Imam. Buy him gifts. Again the key is to be active in the community, not a convert whose entire Islam is on the internet and restricted to social media. Enrol in the Madrassah and Hifz school, even if you feel awkward being surrounded by little kids. Get involved with Tablighi Jamaat and you will quickly become part of a very active and engaged community and establish more personal connections than you can handle.
@aar8808
@aar8808 26 күн бұрын
Nick from Channel JannahVersity in New Muslim Crash Course Episode 4 about Sincerity talks about the elephants in the room such as "Did you marry a culture? Did you convert for a person? Did you convert to rebel against dad?" And so on, quite based.
@AbdulKhader-786
@AbdulKhader-786 3 күн бұрын
I don’t doubt the high dropout rate. There are many factors some which you mentioned. It’s not a phenomenon limited to converts either. So many immigrants and refugees and their children also sort of “dropout” from Islam when they arrive in Europe. I was in Germany and walking through the Arab areas I was shocked to see so many young Arab men walking around with a beer bottle in their hand. It’s one thing to drink behind closed doors, but for Muslims to be so shameless that they openly drink indicates that they truly did come to the West to experience “freedom”. Of the different immigrant Muslim communities I have observed in Europe (Turks in Germany, North Africans in France, South Asians in UK) it has to be said that the South Asian Muslim community is the most conservative, religious, resistant to assimilation) especially true of the Gujarati Indian Muslim community in Leicester. If you go to places like Leicester, Dewsbury, Birmingham and East London you will see greater Islamic religiosity than even Saudi Arabia.
@zeeshawnali4078
@zeeshawnali4078 23 күн бұрын
Where does this statistic come from?
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
The Elephant in the room.
@jjqq4116
@jjqq4116 26 күн бұрын
The Statistic seem questionable. Also dedication to the faith determines the success of reverts. If they aren't resilient they'll stop learning about the faith and probably drop off. The successful reverts learn as deeply as possible about Islam and doesn't give up after conversion. The ones that fail are the ones that don't try or they give up. That's just what I think. It's not easy to be a Muslim in the west. Also wouldn't leaving 5 daily prayers cause a Muslim to become an apostate?
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
First of all, as-salam alaikum. "The Statistic seem questionable." - The statistic is very real and has been reported independently by several imams. At any rate, the fact that it may be true at least warrants further investigation, not a blind eye. "Also dedication to the faith determines the success of reverts." - You are correct in a sense, but that doesn't mean that establishing connection with other Muslims in one's own cultural sphere doesn't matter. Like the hadith says "the lone sheep gets eaten up by the wolf." And since born Muslims want little to nothing to do with providing an Islamic presence within our own cultural sphere, converts must take on this responsibility. "If they aren't resilient they'll stop learning about the faith and probably drop off. " This is really an elitist mentality. It's almost like if you're not a Ph. D. level convert right off the bat, you don't cut the mustard, and helping these converts is pointless. If we had this mentality regarding born Muslims who don't acheieve this level of piety, we'd have to cut off 95% of them. "The ones that fail are the ones that don't try or they give up." That's pretty judgemental for your fellow brothers and sisters, especially when they gave up so much to convert to Islam. If you're a born Muslim, you really don't understand one onehundreth of what converts go through. I would like to see you be a convert dealing with a non-muslim family for one week so you can get a taste of what we go through. If you're a convert, it's still pretty elitist to think this way. The believers should be helpers of one another. We should be here to help each other out to get close to Allah swt, not to provide lip service. In addition, the original sahaba (who were the best nation) did not have to follow any of the ahkam for the first several years. It took 23 years for all the rules of Islam to be revealed to them. Imagine if we had this level of intolerance towards them. "Also wouldn't leaving 5 daily prayers cause a Muslim to become an apostate?" There is ikhtilaf regarding this issue (some scholars say if they still believe it is an obligation then they are not murtad). |But if you want to use the same metric, then far more born MUslims would be placed in that categroy, percentage wise. " Overall, just a cold-hearted, intolerant and dismissive post from someone who just wants to come on here and s***-post.
@Jake-go2lq
@Jake-go2lq 26 күн бұрын
One of the most ignorant comments I have ever read.
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
@@Jake-go2lq Alright maybe I was a bit harsh, forgive me. But you can't be dismissive about this problem, why would you want to see new Muslims suffer is beyond me.
@bristolrovers27
@bristolrovers27 26 күн бұрын
​​@@Islam4Europeans your comment just shut down discussion and debate on this important subject The 70-80% rate is from Imam Luqman Ahmad, he works in prisons and much of his experience is related to converts in prison and the fate of converts who have left prison. In UK there is a phenomenon in prison where men convert for the extras rather than the religion. Brotherhood, mutual self defence, better food and freedom to worship and socialise more. The atmosphere on Muslim wings of prisons is more palatable and not dominated by fear of gangs and gang leaders. Not everyone continues with their religion on release,but this is really separate from converts from the general community. I can't speak for USA, as I have no knowledge
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
@@bristolrovers27 There is also this article from Muslim Matters, as well as reports from imams for decades. These reports don't include prison statistics. muslimmatters.org/2018/01/10/in-the-age-of-islamophobia-why-reverts-are-leaving-islam/
@Gilaffa137
@Gilaffa137 26 күн бұрын
Encourage the new male muslims to go on 3 day jammats, , its good to make friends and learn deen and its fun as well.
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 26 күн бұрын
That's fine for men who have the time and resources, but a lot of men aren't in those situations. And what happens when it's over, is the tabligh going to meet up and have dinner with his family and friends ? At the end of the day, the Muslims he goes on khurooj with will go home to their Muslim family, and these brothers will go to their non-Muslim family.
@Gilaffa137
@Gilaffa137 26 күн бұрын
@@Islam4Europeans but at least when they all meet up for juma he now has a couple more friends he can catch up with , its slow and steady
@thomaskloos6409
@thomaskloos6409 25 күн бұрын
Yes but they can't afford it​@@Gilaffa137
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 25 күн бұрын
@@Gilaffa137 I'm not saying this idea is completely ineffectual, but it's not a long-term solution. And Tablighi Jamaat doesn't include sisters. Usually if you're lucky the wives of TJ will have their own thing going on, but it's hard to access them at masjids.
@Gilaffa137
@Gilaffa137 25 күн бұрын
@@Islam4Europeans you are not going on jamaat to find wives but its good to foster some brotherly relations and to start to familiarise with the community a little more and its good for the imams to develop a relationship then that can lead to introductions to families to find wives, brother even for the revert you cant expect them to jump into straight getting married, jamaat isnt too serious its fun, builds confidence, public speaking learning, deen practical, sunnah learning etc etc and can be done from fri- sunday . good food and there is down time with the boys
@kellyschneider629
@kellyschneider629 24 күн бұрын
Robert, people come into Islam wrong. The correct way is to not to tell the convert to cut things out of their life and ONLY add knowledge gathering and prayer little-by-little. People come into Islam wrong mainly because Muslim economic immigrants and students aren't equipped with basic Islamic knowledge, nor prepared to handle dawah related issues.
@user-dn5bi4si5w
@user-dn5bi4si5w 24 күн бұрын
They really, really read the Quran and Hadith for the first time, and they jumped ship. Perfectly understandable.
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
Islam really is the Religion of the Book, unlike others e.g. even Christians, who are in reality following PAULIANITY.
@user-dn5bi4si5w
@user-dn5bi4si5w 21 күн бұрын
@@Dawah_Help Can't say too much because KZfaq censors me nonstop, but I am familiar with some of the Quran and Hadith. Thumbs 👎. I do not like caravan-raiders and hostage takers.
@Stiffytheenlightened
@Stiffytheenlightened 22 күн бұрын
Education has given people the chance to think for themselves, and see the conflictions between the truth and so called 'religious' writings. Eventually all people will have an education that will free them from the lies of religion. European education will destroy lsIam.
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
How many legions has the Pope... History is understood in certain regions of the World.
@NDP719
@NDP719 24 күн бұрын
Why are some converts so relying on some sort of belonging and community support? Surely accepting Islam is accepting the belief regardless of who is there around ? Maybe these people are attracted by the 'idea' but want it like Christianity where you do not practice ? Maybe these people just want to belong to a group ? Maybe shaytan comes straight after them? Maybe Allah is testing them: "Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test?" - Surah Al-'Ankabut - 2. If their belief is unshakable, they will never leave.
@Islam4Europeans
@Islam4Europeans 24 күн бұрын
This is the wrong way of looking at the problem to be honest. Indeed, Muslims go through trials all the time as He stated in Surah Al-Ankabut. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to help Muslims who are suffering in any situation. If this were true, what is the point of having doctors or medical workers in Gaza? The reward of helping a Muslim is very great. “Help one another in acts of piety and righteousness. And do not assist each other in acts of sinfulness and transgression. And be aware of Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment” (Quran 5:2). Imagine if we suddenly made born Muslims completely socially isolated from one another, and had them all stay in their own 1-bedroom apartment. If what you're saying is true, this is a test from Allah, so we shouldn't have to worry about them creating any organizations or collectivizing in any way shape or form. Born Muslims literally have countless organizations in the West that focus on their specific problems. The Syrian Canaidan Association, the Pakistani Canadian Association, etc. I don't recall any Muslims calling for these organizations to be dismantled.
@robbiegh
@robbiegh 22 күн бұрын
Our faith is influenced by many things; like patting the head of an orphan, staying away from sins, and (very importantly) belonging to a community. Don't forget, as you reap the benefits of the religion your forefathers sowed into their offspring, those who lack what you have. The plight of many converts is a real one; it cripples them, and tests their endurance beyond the capabilities of the average Muslim.
@Fatimaal.i
@Fatimaal.i 26 күн бұрын
I am your sister from Yemen, and by Allah I only spoke out of hunger and distress. My mother, my brothers, and I lessons and tears. We are in a situation that only God knows about. God is sufficient for us, and He is the best disposer of affairs for those who brought us to this situation. By Allah Almighty, I did not write this appeal out of distress and distress. Poverty, O world, they have felt it So, I hope for you. By Allah Almighty, Lord of the Great Throne, he ate what I had in the house. By Allah, my brothers, he is my brothers by sitting in the house. Who has no food? By God, we are in a very difficult situation. We have 6 people entering the house, and my father has died, and there is no one who can depend on us and who lives in it.We live in a rented house because we cannot pay the rent we owe. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to God that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 15,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 45,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by God, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by God. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at their door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By God, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967717415667 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you well..`/--~«««~-♡~♡~♡~~•~•~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡♡♡~~~: ~:~¡~¡~¡~;I.i.i.i.i.i. i.I.|-.......
@RealuserAlice
@RealuserAlice 25 күн бұрын
Oh ez. I'll answer u. When u obfuscate the truth n get gullible ppl to sign up for "time share", sooner or later they realise they've been duped
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
Islam is a religion of the Book par excellence, so you can't apply Churchianity to Islam.
@JenE3377
@JenE3377 24 күн бұрын
Have you even read your incoherent trilogy of hate.
@robbiegh
@robbiegh 22 күн бұрын
trilogy of hate?
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
Islam = Religion of the Book par excellence. No hate, except against haters.
@Dawah_Help
@Dawah_Help 21 күн бұрын
@@robbiegh Islam = Religion of the Book par excellence, unlike cultural Churchianity. The Trinis are projecting. Islam only hates the hateful. There is no equivalent to O.T. AMALEK in Islam. The parrots are regurgitating.
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