I look forward to these more than anything on KZfaq
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@TheMrMKultra3 жыл бұрын
I wondered why the ADOX films weren't available in the 120 format. They would indeed be fantastic! I hope they can get their 120 machines running again. I've also come to like ADOX films, although I haven't shot much of them (mostly their newer HR-50 stuff). CMS 20 II is one of the cheaper ADOX films here in Germany, by the way, though Adotech is still very expensive. Great video, David! Looking forward to this series every time there is a new one.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
You are going to love the next few months. 😃 I have some Kickstarter stuff to do today but will be developing a bunch of Delta 100, Delta 3200, and TMax 100 today.
@MrRom92DAW2 жыл бұрын
So glad to find this video. I’ve been saying for the longest time that I’d like to see someone experiment using this film with other developers
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@richardsimms251 Жыл бұрын
I learned a great deal ( as usual ). Your programs are absolutely top quality. Thank you. RS. Canada
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Richard!
@AnaloguePhoto3 жыл бұрын
Always wondered how that film would look like. And how bad it would be not using Adox own chemistry. Thanks for filling in all those white spots in the map. Lots of work on your behalf.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@mantasmargis83243 жыл бұрын
So happy to see "about film" series back. Thanks David a lot for Your dedication and effort to put this valuable experience/information online.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Mantas!
@craigfouche3 жыл бұрын
Another ace review on a film I have just started shooting. Thank you so much for this in depth video on Adox CMS 20 II! 👌🏻
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@senseofeverthing3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for covering my favorit film!
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! :D
@MidwestBriar3 жыл бұрын
These videos make my day. I'd love an "about developer" series.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I will do that. I have an outline for that in the works. They won't be as in-depth, but will, I think, help shows how different developers work.
@jonathanhotopf18233 жыл бұрын
Fascinating video on this film, well worth watching for your advice on processing it.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@kevin-parratt-artist Жыл бұрын
Good one, David. 👌 Thank you. Yeah, it's a bummer about the 120.
@Volthan5 ай бұрын
Thank you very much. Will compare it to the 3 different Spur films. One of them as the same emulsion. As you said, the 120 options are a plus.
@DavidHancock5 ай бұрын
Thank you! Spur was not a film that had been on my radar at all. I'm excited to look into them now.
@ryang1122 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate this insightful video, thank you.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@robifleming2 жыл бұрын
What an amazing presentation!
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@kneadedmassage97515 ай бұрын
Very impressive work. From its description it rem8nds me of Kodaks Tech Pan, which, after learning curve and exact developer, also produced 14x11 prints without grain. Thank you for your hard work
@DavidHancock5 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@captainbackflash3 жыл бұрын
I loved that sidenote, "Microfilm was read throug a fancy enlarger, that smelled like soup and (and) 1970s armpits.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
:D
@pentaxk853 жыл бұрын
I can second that sentiment, had to use a microfiche machine in a Ford dealers parts dept years ago.
@chacker3 жыл бұрын
It's so good that CMS20 is much less expensive here in Germany - because it's my favorite BW film for landscapes and a joy to scan and also print in the darkroom. Never tried 120 or 4x5 though ;) I tend to rate it at ISO12 with standard development given by the Adotech bottle and are quite happy with the most results. In very sunny or contrasty situations, I go down to ISO 8 without altering the development and the highlights are mostly retained and recoverable. The only thing I really don't like about CMS20 is it's enormous curliness ...
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! For the curl, I was able to reduce that a bit by letting it hand with some fishing weights on the end of the roll for a few days and then storing it in a negative book with weight (other negative books) on top of it.
@chacker3 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock After keeping the strips in the folders for some weeks, the curl disappear ... but beware of forgetting them loose in the darkroom -> The Curl Rises Again
@brycepinson86413 жыл бұрын
I believe Adox is working on getting 120 in production again... at least they've said they are for 100 CHS II... so I suspect this will come back in 120 as well. Great review. I'll try this in 4x5 at some point. But I think my technique needs some further practice to make it a worthwhile investment.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I really hope that happens. I would love to have CHS 100 in medium format when I get to that review (not soon.)
@MrMestrebimba2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see some examples of portraits with Adox 20CMS II. Thanks for all the advice and examples.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
I concur and that's an acknowledged weakness in my reviews that I want to start rectifying this year.
@talleyrand94423 жыл бұрын
I remember you talking about this review. And it’s here!! Awesome. I love this film.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@steven10000000003 жыл бұрын
Oooohhh.... I've been looking at CMS-20 for years and been very tempted, but never pulled the trigger. On my next film purchase, I think I'm going to pick up a few rolls. Thanks for the detailed info and experiments.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Nice! It's an awesome film.
@haimtoeg Жыл бұрын
Thanks for a very informative video. I just bought a few rolls of this and a bottle of the developer. Eager to try them and see how it works.
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Nice! It's a great film if it can be tamed a bit.
@Thorpal3 жыл бұрын
Nice vid, you should do the same type but for b&w developers. That will complement this series of videos nicely !
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I concur. I have an idea of how to do that and just need some time to make it happen. It's on the to-do list for next year.
@gabrielsilvaz41995 ай бұрын
I don’t know maybe it’s KZfaq but I like shadow detail in my images most of the time even if it is super sharp if there’s hardly any shadow details and a lot of the highlights seem blown out pretty badly in some of those images it doesn’t seem worth it to me. I’ll stick with Fuji Acros 100. Great information by the way about the film in your developer series.
@DavidHancock4 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@steffenbjoern Жыл бұрын
Great work!
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@GTXTi-db5xu Жыл бұрын
This looks amazing, reminds me of Kodak Technical Pan! I can't wait to try it out.
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
It's a pretty incredible film, just a bit hard to use very well.
@GTXTi-db5xu Жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Yeah, and hard to develop too... still gonna try it out though! I think it I'm going to make prints I'll use this film since there's literally no grain.
@artsyaidan3 жыл бұрын
Ooh I've been waiting for this one!
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I hope it's worth the wait. :D
@marcosviniciod18302 жыл бұрын
Amazing video, lots of relevant information. Grateful for sharing!
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@Spino138lolp3 жыл бұрын
Excellent job, as always!
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Matteo!
@jonathanraven59393 жыл бұрын
Absolutely fantastic
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@LaViejaConsolada3 жыл бұрын
Adotech IV is a very diluted developer already, that is why it acts like a supercompensating (as caffenol CL, eg), so when you developed your film with a dilution of 1:70 I am sure that you surpassed the developer capacity and that is why you got unpredictable output. CMS 20 is a great film, I would shoot it 24/7. In fact, is one of the three emulsions that I use.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I didn't know that about Adotech IV. I do love CMS 20 II in Adotech at 1+14. It's a great pairing and this is a superb film.
@MichaelCarter2 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Adotech IV I could not find anywhere
@rotfai45mm3 жыл бұрын
David thank you for your review . I have learned a lot from it . But I don't like the combination of medium and (very} high contrast in many photo's in this video . The tonal scale looks more like a uneven staircase . I used a few Rollei RPX 25 films . This a practical very sharp film with a smooth tonal scale in Rodinal 1+100 at 13 minutes rated 25 ISO . Best regards Peter .
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
CMS 20 II reacts wildly differently, and generally not well, to developers other than Adotech. I would only use it in something other than Adotech if I had no choice. I do also like RPX 25 and really can't wait to start shooting it again for this series (next year I'm picking it back up.)
@antonroland Жыл бұрын
When I heard you say Adotech was expensive I cringed. Then I heard the prices you quoted and I thought I’d buy it by the case lot without blinking😝 Seriously, come live in SA for a while where we pay ZAR17 for U$1 and ZAR18 for €1…😉 Very much looking forward to playing with this stuff soon… Did you experiment with any filters for landscapes…red or yellow? Cheers!
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
I only tried filters a couple of times and anything that increases contrast renders this almost a two-tone film.
@kevin-parratt-artist Жыл бұрын
Adox took over all the Fotokemika equipment when they shut down. .. and equipment overhaul/replacement was the primary reason that ended EFKE. ( which originally Adox before WW2 ) .. However, as the equipment was nearing it's end of reliable service, digital photography stole the cash flow. They didn't see repairs being feasible.
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Thank you! So the ongoing maintenance costs were the thing that did EFKE in?
@kevin-parratt-artist Жыл бұрын
@David Hancock Turning the clock back a bit, the original Adox company was one of the first in Europe. At the end of the war, the US was grabbing patents from Germany as war reparations. Adox, with its chemical formulae, everything was just given to Du Pont who had a graphic materials division but weren't interested in diversifying into photography. So they offered everything to Fotokemika in Zagreb on a lease basis. Under the name EFKE .. the sound of the letters f and k .. ef ke The Adox products were back in production. EFKE was never a big player in the US market, and very few were aware of its history. However, when Fotokemika decided to close down, the enterprising guy at FOTOIMPEX in Berlin, offered to take over the products, producing them at a new plant in Germany. Then, the ownership of the trade name ADOX became available and Fotoimpex snapped it up. I am confused as to who actually makes what, but it was an emotional 'Hooray!' when at least some of the original Adox (EFKE) products were back in their original label. If I had a bunch of money to put into a business, without any demands on returns, I'd put into their plant and equipment and also bring back 220 rollfilm.
@Niklas-lb5qz3 жыл бұрын
A comparison between adox CMS 20 and Rollei rpx 25 would be really interesting
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I agree. To me, the biggest difference is that RPX 25 has a much greater dynamic range that can be obtained more easily. I've used some RPX 25, but I wouldn't say I'm an expert in it yet.
@hecaberdeen19732 жыл бұрын
Great video David with lots of very useful development data in terms of dilutions and times, but nowhere do you mention development temperature! 20C, 24C or something else?
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Oh shoot. Good point. So I just keep my chemistry at room temp, which in the darkroom space is pretty consistently 22C year-round because it has no exterior walls.
@brianmiller99322 жыл бұрын
The statement at 3:15 that 20C is equivalent to 72F is incorrect. 20C is the same as 68F.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Dang it. Thank you. I thought I had fixed that on the template.
@ikorin3 жыл бұрын
David, where do you buy Adox CMS 20 4x5 in USA? I cannot find it, it looks like out of stock everywhere. I love this channel btw. Thank you 🙏
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I order the vast majority of my film from Freestyle. They are likely out of stock, too. Back to school drains a lot of film suppliers stocks.
@TXGRunner Жыл бұрын
An excellent video; I just wonder if you haven't so discouraged many from trying it that availability becomes an issue. For example, I understand there are labs that will use the ADOX chemicals, at least that was definitely true for Silvermax. I wrote to FOTOIMPEX toask if they knew of any near where I am located.
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I would say, for this film, it's one that really benefits from home developing because labs work in fast, strong chemistry (in general.) This is a film best used by advanced users with a good handle on their ability to develop this stock with good developing technique. I have a GREAT lab and I would definitely NOT send them this because they do all B&W in a 6-minute XTOL stock (or maybe 1+1) dip. This would not work well in that setting.
@terrywbreedlove2 жыл бұрын
I can't find the film or developer in stock right now.. As soon as it is I will buy both and give it a shot.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
If you're in the U.S. Adox products have been hard to come buy the last year due to struggles with international trade and shipping. It sells out at Freestyle about as quickly as it arrives.
@terrywbreedlove2 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Yep in the US. I have BH notifying me when they have it in stock. Does this film work with colored filters like Tmax and the others ?
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
@@terrywbreedlove Oh it definitely will. All black and white films will work with all filters and differently so based on their spectral sensitivity. This film will not likely respond well to filters that increase contrast -- namely warm-tone filters. I would also think that, in general, filters with this film will make it harder to use because of how high contrast it is as a baseline.
@terrywbreedlove2 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Today i tried a red and polarizer filter together for the first time. Shooting 35mm Tmax 100 on the beach. I will develop it in the morning and I am excited to see what happens. I haven’t shot 35mm in a long time. I was using my Nikon F3 with a 17mm Tokina lens. I shoot 4x5 and medium format 99.9% of time time. But today was mostly about taking a long walk in the rain. I have to admit it was nice to have that built in light meter and let the camera do all the calculations 🤣
@MD-en3zm2 жыл бұрын
I've been thinking of trying photographer's formulary td-3 with this. Wondering if that might work well and tame some of the contrast.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Not sure, as I've never used it. In general, high-contrast developers will not suit this film (in terms of what I'm looking for in images.) So if TD-3 is either high- or low-contrast, that may help answer that question.
@MD-en3zm2 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Yeah, TD-3 is developed specifically for the purpose of controlling contrast in high contrast films. It was developed by Troop I think, and was supposed to be an improvement on technidol for use with tech pan or other similar technical films. It’s a LOT cheaper than the Adox developer though. It’s discussed in the Troop and Anchell book.
@mannygomez2606 Жыл бұрын
Great review, have you tried scala reversal kit on CMS 20 II?
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
I have not. There's no one doing Scala reversals in the U.S. any more, that I know of. DR5 has stopped and I think they were the last.
@mannygomez2606 Жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock I purchased the scala reversal kit, I read that it works with CMS 20II. I’ll have to give it a try.
@seandwyer35983 жыл бұрын
David-thanks very much for this video. I’ve been very interested in this film but typically shoot 120. Are you, by chance, aware of an estimated time by which Adox will be back up and running for 120? Or is this more like-nobody makes 120 machines anymore so no estimate. Thanks!
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Nope. It broke something like five years ago. I understand that the broken part is very expensive.
@seandwyer35983 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Oh, man! That doesn't sound good and this is so unfortunate! Thanks for the info!
@jameslane38463 жыл бұрын
I'm trying to figure out a dilution and time with 510 Pyro but if I can't figure it out, I'll go back to POTA
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
That's not one that I can help with, unfortunately.
@flipflopsLF3 жыл бұрын
Any thoughts on ADOX CMS 100 II film stock? I’m shooting CMS 20 now. Had a bad box of 25 that developed blank yet will buy it again. Thanks
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I tried it some years ago and liked it. I haven't dug back into it yet. As a general statement I think Adox films are exceptional.
@MichaelCarter2 жыл бұрын
I'd try it with a 35mm adapter kit in a Pentax 6x7. At least one dimension would be MF.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
That could be an interesting look, too.
@palesmichael2 жыл бұрын
Did you also try the spur developer? (Spur Nanotech UR)
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Nope. I only used the ones listed in the video.
@Ryan-lc4bl3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if a drum scanner could get the maximum resolution out of Adox CMS 20 II, seems like the only option. They top out at a whopping 11.000 dpi for a 35mm scan (from some services I've seen online) , so it makes sense, but regardless the camera lenses wouldn't resolve that resolution.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Not sure. I had wondered that. But I think this resolves so well that ultimately I doubt it. 11,000 dpi works out to about 433lp/mm, nothing that's not a perfect equivalent. I suspect that would still do better than most DSLR cameras and definitely better than flatbeds. The big question for me with scanners is always tonal depth, editability, and color.
@Ryan-lc4bl3 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Wow, just insane how much it takes to even get close to the potential resolution. Scanning 35mm at 11000 dpi would be about 15.587×10.384, around 161 megapixels ! They claimed 500mp, so theoretically their is still more detail, but this tops even the latest Hasselblads with 100-150mp sensors !
@LaViejaConsolada3 жыл бұрын
Nah, the great majority of CMS content that I see in internet is digitalised, which in my opinion is an error. Optic printing is the only way that yield good results. Also it is a bitch to scan, the density range of the film outperforms the vast majority of digital sensors and scanners. Clear base, bois, that Dmin is quite shady! (pun intended)
@Ryan-lc4bl3 жыл бұрын
@@LaViejaConsolada I agree 100%. The major advantage would be for optical printing, which is rarely done nowadays, even through scans most people don't bother (I'm doing my printing from scans because it's cheaper (low res) and I don't develop/scan my own film). A nice enlarger lens, stopped down to f/8-f/11, and a sharp camera lens/tripod combination should be enough for making 16×20" prints from 35mm negatives of CMS 20 II. One day my dream would be to build my own darkroom, but unfortunately I don't have space/time/ nor do I shoot enough film (35mm) to justify that.
@Ryan-lc4bl3 жыл бұрын
@@LaViejaConsolada But I think the point is missed with 35mm, as you're going to slow down the process anyways, might as well shoot 645/6×6. Not that 35mm is only good for fast action, but it's certainly limited , having to carefully shoot CMS 20 II, develop it, and use very slow ISO speed (12-20). The weight isn't as much of an issue (at least 645, 6×7 is just unbearable for most people), and you'll enjoy great results from faster films (Tmax 100, Acros 100 and Delta 100 come to mind).
@OskarFilms2 жыл бұрын
What are your thoughts about using a Red 25 filter with this film?
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
In general, I'm a hard pass on red filters for film slower than 100 ISO solely due to the baseline contrast the film has and the increased contrast red filters provide.
@avitalnatanson2 жыл бұрын
Did you try it with yellow or orange filter?
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
I think I mentioned that somewhere in here, but I don't recall. I think I did and found any warm filter added too much contrast.
@szabodaniel94473 жыл бұрын
Some negs show bromide drag, that’s due to stand development, right?
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
I suspect you're seeing surge marks. I don't recall bromide drag on the photos but some of them did have surge marks from agitations that were too rough.
@szabodaniel94472 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock Thanks, I guess when it comes from the sprocket holes it’s bromide drag. I personally am very keen on getting clean film images and prints. Although minor artefacts are inevitable I am not a fan of dust, scratches and uneven development.
@gavinjenkins8993 ай бұрын
Why not simply agitate the 1:75? If your reason for stand developing is purely financial, not compensation, then there's no actual reason to need to leave it sitting still, you can agitate as much as you want and thus still save money but avoid all the bromide drag and whatnot. Just toss a film leader in there to rough out the time first with agitation. Also B&H sells Rollei Copex Rapid, which as far as I can tell is the same film as this, in 120.
@DavidHancock3 ай бұрын
Good question and it's a matter of the desired results. Agitation of any quantity in developing will increase negative contrast by replacing used chemistry with fresh. Stand developing will result in flatter negatives with better highlight and shadow detail. I do agree that bromide drag is a significant issue with stand developing and some chemistries and, when that's a concern, semi-stand is a good workaround.
@maxgrau9083 Жыл бұрын
cool music , what ?
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Might be listed in the description
@robertmarin3252 жыл бұрын
where can i buy this film
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Fotoimpex seems it or if you're in the US Freestyle
@alexbaias1254 Жыл бұрын
his film is waste of money ! first of all, it's expensive for a black and white film, it's recommended to develop only in adotech 4 for best results, after drying , it curls, even if you keep it under heavy books, it's a pain working in darkroom with this film, and it's scratches easily ,it's not as sharp as they say. I made a side by side comparison, with an expired kodadk tmax100, ilford fp4, and astrum 64(for those who don't know what film is astrum 64, it's the former svema 64 )and the only difference that I noticed that the adox is slightly sharper, almost unnoticeable , it doesn't justifies the price, as for contrast and tones, astrum 64 is better, plus the spectral sensitivity of astrum FN-64 is expanded into the near infrared range of the energy spectrum, and it dries perfectly flat, and its more resistant to scratches and 3 times cheaper than adox, it can be developed with any developer. Here in Canada is $6.50 per roll.
@DavidHancock Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@zabtej16452 жыл бұрын
Lines / mm doesn't tell you shit about the lens. It might be very high, but the inter tonal values might suck, i. e. the lens produces poor gradation.
@DavidHancock2 жыл бұрын
Generally concur. LPMM is just one data point and it's highly fallible. Lens image characteristics, things like color transmission, distortion, and ghost and flare reduction are way more important than sharpness. Very many subjects don't benefit from grain-level sharpness, too.
@zabtej16452 жыл бұрын
@@DavidHancock right on
@user-ti9zc1xv2b3 жыл бұрын
Is it me or are almost all of your images overdeveloped?
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Some are with some developers, others were underdeveloped. On my monitor, the majority appear properly developed.
@keironstoneman69383 жыл бұрын
2 gigapixel equivalent? I paused the video to get over the shock! I do not have the skill to shoot this film. The lowest iso I will go is pan f 50 by Ilford or 100 iso on colour film.
@DavidHancock3 жыл бұрын
Noting that's a false equivalency, yes, but the goal there was only to express it's capabilities in more common terms to help cover how much detail this can capture. Film with equivalent resolution will outperform digital art the same resolution, too,