Is it easy to create a virtually perfect vacuum that lasts >25 years?

The best VIPs use fumed silica, but a simpler and cheaper alternative might still allow diy vips with better R-value than spray foam. I've held a sample VIP and seen people walk on them (in socks, gently) - they have structure. Rigid fiberglass board might qualify for that - but VIPs have minimal material to minimize heat conduction thru matter. Are you sure they use fiberglass? I expect they use something less dense. Aerogels are famous for their low density, and they can maintain a shape in a vacuum, but they are expensive, and can shatter. Any ideas for a material that provides structure but has minimal material / minimizes conduction thru the matter* and is not too expensive? *insulation materials like fiberglass conduct heat thru the material itself - far more slowly than metals - but far higher than vacuums

Huh

ha i was thinkg about doing something like that with a big steel pipe i have. weld on an exterior "sheathe" and suck the air out of it. thing is there has to be a connection between the 2 layers at every door or window meaning the could outside layer will conduct to the inside layer quite efficiently.

Exactly what I was thinking, strategic placement and wall construction would a must or you could run into cost prohibitive damage to the panels from work site losses. Additionally, due to the method of construction they cannot be trimmed to fit like Batt, Rolled or foam sheet insulation the wall must be built to accommodate the panels to some degree of precision. That being said I could see how this could be accomplished, Build the exterior walls with proper and precise stud spacing and install double exterior sheathing to utilized a fastener of proper length to not penetrate through the 2nd layer and pierce the VIP panels. Those panels could then be place in the wall cavity with a double-sided tape and seams sealed and insulated with Polyurethane spray foam insulation. You could use single sheath in application with no sheathing penetrating fasteners like masonry mesh screens and staples perhaps; or insulated concrete form walls

homes legit need to be built for the panels

large panels or single "pocket of vacuum panels" ARE Going to REQUIRE wireless &wired sensors that relay vacuum breaks... Also, THE ultimate product is going to have SMALL **"bubbles" of vacuum** ----- similar to foil bubble bubble foil where even if one out of 500 bubbles in a one foot area is punctured that it has almost NO EFFECT on the rest of the performance. .... This will give THE most versatile, multifunctional and durable, flexible and resilient material.

For questions regarding this product, please go to our website for industrial devices and select contact us na.industrial.panasonic.com/products/hvacr-appliance-devices/vacuum-insulation/lineup/vacuum-insulation-panel #C

​@@PanasonicUSA large panels or single "pocket of vacuum panels" ARE Going to REQUIRE wireless &wired sensors that relay vacuum breaks... Also, THE ultimate product is going to have SMALL **"bubbles" of vacuum** ----- similar to foil bubble bubble foil where even if one out of 500 bubbles in a one foot area is punctured that it has almost NO EFFECT on the rest of the performance. .... This will give THE most versatile, multifunctional and durable, flexible and resilient material.

Hello! We would be more than happy to assist you further! Please contact us directly at na.panasonic.com/us/iaqsupport with more information about your inquiry. -M

whirlpool slimtech refrigerators.. its coming to normal refrigerators soon. :) Or heat batteries.

Looks like this got mentioned later in the video!

Hello! We would be more than happy to assist you further! Please contact us directly at pages.na.industrial.panasonic.com/contact-us.html with more information about your inquiry. -M

It's a mylar bag with an solid inert substance in it, with all the gasses sucked out. It should be easy to make, and if there was enough incentive to mass produce them, the price would fall considerably. The guy even says the core is "fiberglass." It's an inch of fiberglass bat wrapped in a plastic bag with the air sucked out!

@@Sainze ​ Surely there is already plenty of incentive, no? Why aren't these mass-produced now? Panasonic, Firestone, Kingspan, and OCI (not sure what that stands for - a Korean company) all make Vacuum Insulated Panels. Perhaps other companies too. They don't want the product to get a bad rep, which could happen if people go installing it before the companies have found the best installation methods under various circumstances - but I would have thought they must have that figured out by now. Kingspan began selling Optim-R in 2012. If I remember correctly, Panasonic did its first installations in a test facility around 2008. OCI began r&d in 2006 and began sales in 2012. So yes, why aren't these mass-produced now? This one-minute video shows some details about how they are made: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j86kasiem86qZIE.html Is that significantly more complex than you imagined?

Can you say which company you got that price from? Panasonic? It's less costly than a price I saw for another brand.

@@JonathonNeville I don't think there is not enough demand / incentive yet for VIPs to be made at that scale. The reason VIPs are not super mass produced and thus they are not as low of a cost as they could be .. is Supply follows after Demand .. not the other way around .. It's the same logic with other methods of energy efficiency .. achieve X for less energy .. be it heating a house , cooling a house .. or moving a person to and from work on their commute .. Tiny 1 and 2 person super light weight micro cars , would be more efficient .. cost less money and energy to make , cost less money and energy to operate , etc .. But that isn't made in the same economy of scale / mass volume as large 4000 or 5000 lbs 5 seat vehicles used to move 1 person to and from work ~200 days a year .. soo , because the consumer demands the vastly less efficient vehicle (whatever their reasons are) , that is the product that the OEMs make in the largest mass production .. Same thing with VIPs ... the vast majority of consumers do not demand things like R70 or R100 houses .. Many people are also short sighted .. if they have to choose between $1x for better insulation when the house is built vs pay $3x (or more) over the life time of the house in higher heating and cooling costs .. a large % of people regularly choose that $1x worth of additional insulation when the house was being made .. even among the smaller % of people that would demand (pay the $ for) that high kind of insulation value when the house is being made, very few of those people also happen to care a great deal about the VIP benefit of getting that same R Value in a small amount of space. Today VIPs are used any place that both of the features specific to it apply .. When the application values both the high RValue and amount of space needed to achieve that thickness .. some high end coolers , refrigerators, and hot water tanks use VIPs , etc .. Pretty much only applications that care about both the R Value and the space consumed to get that R Value. Example of concept: A 500 Gallon thermal storage tank. 1inch top/bottom/front/back/Right/Left of Panasonic VIP can get over R60 of thermal insulation ..that requires dimensions of about 50" x 50"x 50" as a cube of space. To get that same 500 Gallons with the same amount of R value with say for example Polyisocyanurate sheets it would have required more inches added to each side of that cube .. making the cube about 73" x 73" x 73" of space .. Both thermal storage tanks hold the same ~500 Gallons inside , both cubes have about the same R Value .. what is the extra 2ft or so of space in each direction (deep , wide , height) worth ? .. vs .. what is the price difference between the VIP and the polyiso . Alternatively if you have that 73"x73"x73" of space to use or thermal storage , the VIP could allow in that space to hold more gallons of thermal storage .. up to about ~1,480 Gallons at the same R Value .. soo in the same space they could have almost 3x as much thermal storage , with the same R Value of thermal insulation .. again if that extra usable space has value you weigh it against the cost of the VIP .. the cost/value of that extra size and space is a major determinate for if VIPs are 'cost effective' , in a given specific application. The thermal storage space could be used for heating or cooling , or a large commercial food freezer , etc. I've seen / bought Panasonic Brand VIPs from Digikey from around $8/sqft to $12/sqft depending on the specific panel and order volume.

What is the R-value of these vacuum bags??

In a vacuum, only radiation is going to transfer heat. So maybe the glass fiber reflects some of that?

@@timgleason2527 if anything the fiber would absorb it and transfer it through conduction.

@@af0ulwind115 it might, but it’s really hard to do the math on that. For example, mylar foil is a great radiative barrier but also a good conductor. Volcanologists still have it on when they’re approaching lava because the rejection of radiation is so much more important than conduction.

@@timgleason2527 I'm thinking that the reflective mylar is also a radiant barrier, but they did not address it. So, I could be off.

When did they mention the R-value??

These must be WEF member puppets that are going to push some new greenscamfeverdream..