always the greatest respect for someone who can geek out on their craft with such enthusiasm!

I've been extremely impressed with the performance/value of the YG1 V7A plus 6 flute end mills. Performance is as good as end mills costing twice as much.

I would have liked to see the cutting edges of both tools compared under the microscope, maybe next time

When I was putting together my home shop, I started off with YG1 because they were affordable and not made in China. I get excellent surface finishes with their HSS endmills in aluminum, not to mention the cutting power and chatter are greatly reduced compared to no-name or chinese brands. I also exclusively used YG1 Alu-Power at my old job on Maho CNC machines cutting 6061 all day long. Our 3/4" endmill lasted over a year of 40 hour work weeks running 3500 rpm, Valcool, and averaging 50 ipm.

Fascinating to see under a microscope what the cuts look like. I love it!! The very first thing I saw when you showed the scoped picture was the anomalies. I hope you do a follow up video explaining what causes that or at least your theories. Thanks for the videos!

I've been using these lately as well. They are fantastic. The YG-1 USA headquarters is only about half an hour from me.

Hey John nice video😊 In our toolshop we only use yg1. Also the endmills for hardmilling are amazing. Best regards from Switzerland.

I have been using Alu-Power end mills for maybe 8 or more years and convinced my shop that I work for to run them about 5 years ago. Love them and a great price. They make a great V7 for hard to machine metals that's awesome also.

Much prefer this channel over many other CNC's out there. Much better teacher!

I use the YG1 everyday in the shop and I can say this the endmill I use the most. You can do just about anything with it on aluminum. The hardest I've pushed it was a 1.5 depth of cut, 1/8 step over, 8k rpm and 100imp in the HAAS VF2ss I work on. Absolutely amazing.

The E5E88 Series cutters from YG-1 have lapped edges. If you compare them with a standard carbide tool under a microscope, they are like chalk and cheese. And they are lethal. My hands have healed now.

It's amazing how much you go into detail and what kind of tests you run. I can't imagine that i would learn nearly as much in school.

Love this stuff. It's good to hear you break down the physics of the cut. Hope all's well out there in Zanesville!

the irregularities look to be cyclic, it could be due to the spindle servo, you command a constant speed and when you enter cut the servo ramps up the power and might "overshoot" then compensate but be slightly too slow ramp up power again etc... just a guess ;-)

SFM can make a big difference, while the tool diameter may not change the surface finish (on light finish passes), the lower sfm especially at that low of a feed rate in a material that soft could have a very pronounced effect, I'd be interested to see this again with each tool running the same sfm, instead of the same rpm.

980 sfm vs 1309 sfm I mean...come on...a CNC channel couldn't come up with a 1/2" endmill for a fair comparison?

Would love to see what surface you get from that tool in the Haas

I feel tool diameter does make a difference but I feel the real gain here is the coating. Thanks for the info on where to buy them, people should support the direct buy companies (further investigation this is not a direct purchase but purchased directly online). I also feel the cause for the erratic cutting is caused buy the lack of rigidity and power of the particular machine. You are correct in saying that a 1/4 or smaller tool is better in those machines due to the rigidity and power of them. I feel they are a good hobbyist machine, nothing more.

Great topic. I'm slightly obsessed with having a mirror finish and definitely look forward to trying out one of these end mills.

my guess on the inconsistency in the feed marks would be from chip evacuation causing the cutter to slightly chatter from material getting in the way of the cutter and the surface.

YG-1 puts a great polish on their tools they probably do a 2 or 3 part grind , rough, semi and polish, the polish really helps get a grate surface finish on your cut, Renzetti has showed this many times. Great video this it felt scientific, I love the look into the little details of these things.

Just barely got a microscope I can’t wait to put some of my machines parts under it! Thanks for the great video!

Cool! Unfortunately my work place likes to sand away the machines surface finish

Frickin awesome video Into the weeds! Just enough to get me tinkering and thinking more. I've used the YG1 HSS on that was dirt cheap and great for leaning setup booboos. Very excited to hear you can get them directly from YG no sales account hubub!

Hi John. Here is a suggestion: it looks like you are using a helical Zrn coated endmill for the first test. It doesn't have to be helical though, any coated tool will have the same effect. In speaking to tooling vendors, Zrn coatings are awesome for adding lubricity and longevity to the tool. However, on a microscopic scale, the coating dulls the cutting edge, making the surfacing finish not be as good. A more apples to apples comparison would be to take the same YG1 tool and compare it to a 45 degree uncoated endmill from helical (or any other vendor) to see the real difference. A higher helix leaves better finishes, which is why I think a 45 degree is best. Using a 37 degree or so is better for roughing applications because of the more solid core. Would love to see you expand your test. Good work

I've been using these for about 6 months now. They are awesome!

Been running these for a couple of years now, you should see the finish in a Haas with a heat shrink holder at 15K RPM! The edges also seem to last a lot longer than some of the other tools on the market and usually the core is thicker than a comparable endmill so they perform much better in the extended length versions. The cyclical variations in the surface finish remind me of the cnc converted bench top machine I have in my basement. Prior to installing AC servos, the stepper motors would leave a finish like this when "micro-stepping" between motor poles. After AC servos, the irregularities went away, and I do have a Tormach 770 head mounted on the machine.

I love YG they put so much money back into there product line. i think my rep said 75% of all profit goes back into RandD Try a YG HPC AluPower they do amazing floor finishing and do a very steep ramp angle on a haas

I can attest those YG-1 Alupower endmills are absolutely the best, They are mirror finished endmills and cut like butter.

If you go to EMUGE they make a Polishing 6 flute carbide end mill. Designed for 3 edges cut, 3 polish (rub or as they say pressure) for aluminium, brass, and copper. I am not sure if these require higher levels of rigidity from your machine, tool holder, part clamping? Along with the stated correct speeds and feeds based on what the project is.

imco tooling is the absolute best if you can afford it. we dont do much with aluminum but their streaker series is incredible. for low carbon steels the enduro m525 are fantastic with a .030 corner radius

Lot of usefull info here John. Thanks.

Great finish and finish inspection tool. Thank you, Lance & Patrick.

Awesome! I used to use YG-1 Alumapowers on my Taig because they're so sharp that they drop the amount of horsepower needed (which is pretty important on a Taig!) It's definitely one of those endmills you can't grab by the flutes though :P

Been using these for years. Love them for AL and Plastic

Grateful for the time. Learning a lot from this channel!

I use a bunch of YG tooling, it works very nice, I have a bunch of 2 flutes in hss and carbide. Both give really nice finishes

YG-1 is around for many years as a supplier for resellers. often labeled as their 'own' generic brand, e.g. hoffmann and their garant/holex

Side note: Aren't the tools that Tormach sells made by YG-1??

YG also sells a coated version of that end mill that dramatically improves tool life.

Hey John, if you're never tried one, I would highly recommend giving the ECAI-B-3 line of Iscar end mills a try. I've used many different brands and flavors of end mill for aluminum, and have yet to find anything that can produce as good a surface finish. The only drawback to them is they are not available in many sizes, and no metrics at all.

John & Crew. You kinda stole my thunder here, but point I want to make is that certain mfgs can make a tool that just puts down a finish that just blows you away. I have had even cheap chinese tooling produce remarkable finishes with certain materials. The job of a good machinist is trying new tooling and see what you get.... Every machine is different, as is the tooling.

yayyyyy new video from Johnny!

Looks like harmonics and run out of the spindle. What was the cut 3/4 tho? Or a little over that?

Be careful with these glass scales. Check them with a gauge block! I had some that looked just like yours and they were almost 10% off.

hmm climb milling? backlash issues?

Helix angle can make a big difference as well.

Could be harmonics in the system. Make a few blanks that are as identical as possible, then run the test. If it is always in the same locations on all the parts, then theres a harmonics issue. If the locations vary from part to part, I would guess its more of a electronics feedback control issue.

5:55 some interesting 'S' shaped marks on the RH end of the YG-1 sample

Great video, great information, but I’d have like to have seen the same surface speed.

got a school assigment, i have to explain how milling machines operate and i think i learnt some from this video, thanks.

I don't know what its worth from a machinist point of view , but I have fairly consistant aluminum mirror finish with amanatool oflute. have you ever tried them? :)

Can this be used to make datum edges for making base plates to attach precision rails which requires datum edge?

This is suprising as my local distributer sent me some yg1 to compare to the helical long reach tools that we love and it was such a disappointment. Yg1 wants to send us more but the boss thinks its just a waste of time since there last ones were so terrible. I mean it cut but the finish when measures on our sj-210 was nowhere near the helical... so disappointing

The heavier the machine the better. On my Haas VF3, I used a heavy cemented carbide lathe cutter, 3/4"... welded to a 3/4" shank, and the single cutter, as a fly cutter gave me mirror finishes. It could do a 6" wide piece of stock and was a cheap tool to produce!

I would love to see you guys do a test of the blueswarf milling system!

Great stuff. Thank you.

Measure the distance between the irregularity clusters, calculate the frequency of the cluster and it's repetition frequency from that (=> linear tool speed) and look for those frequencies in the audio you captured during recording. Might give you a clue.

So, the rotation of the cutting tool, in order to maximize efficency, has to be properly geared to the advancement of it into the work being machined.

fun fact - many "dull" metal surfaces are mirrors under thermal wavelengths (you can see your reflection on a rough copper sheet thru thermal camera)

It strikes me that choosing a number of flutes and a feed per rotation that had a very high least common multiple might make the finish better. maybe?

For a true apples to apples comparison of the two bits, you could've ran the larger, half inch, bit at 75% of the rotational speed of the smaller, 3/8" bit. Basic math for linear speed of the two shows that the smaller is 75% the speed of the larger at the same rpm at the cutting edge. Also, Ra only tells you one part of the puzzle, you also need highest and lowest points, the linear distance between the two, and angles between those points, to understand the reflectivity of the piece. The higher the deviation of the peaks and valleys, given a constant linear distance, changes the angle at which light reflects; the more consistent flatness, the better, which is why the 'choppiness' of the peaks and valleys give poor reflectivity. Of course this is only going on one axis, not a plane, and that assumes the plane itself is flat.This also assumes consistency of the peaks and valleys, say if some are taller and/or deeper, you'll get different reflections; which also shows why average is flawed, average doesn't show the inconsistency, which also introduces the need for more datapoints, like medians, mode, and range, etc. But then the next part, the scale of the surface deviations. Say you have a part with deviations in the nm scale but isn't reflective, but your μm Ra scale's readings say it should be reflective based on correlation to readings from other tested pieces that are reflective; this is where scale is important. There's a lot more to this than just measuring an average. In a true scientific study, you'd want to track every possible variable in every piece of the process, but that's not practical for actual work, and has diminishing returns after some point. Personally, I think chasing high mirror surfaces with cutting tools is a waste of time and money in the long run. If you really need a mirror surface, have the piece go through grinding and polishing operations for that surface. Cutting will never get you the surface that grinding and polishing can give you.

I was able to get a 16 surface finish facing UHMW with a 1/2" alu power at 8k rpms.

Great tech vid! Love my YG1’s 😎😎 they do dull sorta quickly if you rough and finish with them, but finishing only and she lastsss 👌🏻 Got a Link to those desk lights?

Interesting video. Any thoughts on how part & fixture rigidity could influence the surface finish?

Hi, very good and informative video, however, would like to see the tool at the same cutting speed rather than RPM... Higher cutting speed will introduce more heat to the cut and definitely influence the result IMHO.

John, You should do a vid on roughing aluminum. Try out the YG-1 Speed Freek #66515PC This tool is a Beast and loves to go fast! A+ on the AluPower EMs. Love them.

Bright tools will always leave a shinier finish than coated, but coated will last longer. You have two different diameter tools, that’s a huge difference with the “receipe” you used. Your running way different SFM but the same IPT? Should be doing the opposite. Same SFM (not same RPM) and the IPT is always different for different diameter tools. Grain direction of material will also make a difference.

so how does one grind the entire surface with that tool?

What are the chances it was runout in the tool that caused those lines?

Your SFM was different between cutters and aside from the diameter, the 3/8" appears to be ZrN coated. Not saying the finish wasn't good, it was actually very good. Just saying there are more factors at play here...

Looking at the two samples there appear to be more geometrics (waviness and oscillations) in the super 1/2" end mill finished surface. Maybe this is because the surface is more reflective and hence makes any ripples more obvious, or it could be a reflection of something on the worktop; look to the right of this test piece at 5:36 in your video! To get a true idea of what is happening on the surface, geometrically, you would need to very much increase your sampling distance for the test.

mind you the theorical Rz is lower the higher the diameter of the tool is relative to the same Fz

So is this basically just your first trial with a high helix finishing endmill in general? Heard you talking about datron tools too recently, you should show off some of those :p

Interesting. Shouldn't those scallops have a slight angle due to the helix angle? Irregularities in the spacing may be due to tool design. As I understand it the flutes are often made very slightly asymmetric to help avoid resonances.

It appears that the smaller diameter tool is recutting the chips and the larger YG-1 is not. The chips from the YG-1 are being blown straight back. Are you cutting both at the same speed even though one is a larger diameter?

Oh wow, look at the boy that has been to Europe and bought a nice shirt ;-) But beside that cool swag; Could you try take the microscope from the "top" of the part, so you can see the depth of the cuts? I wonder if where you see the lines gets erratic, it has jumped futher "into" the material than it should, making the marks irragular due to radial vibrations?

Could I use that yg1 cutter that was shown in the video on a manual mill or does it only work on a Cnc I need a new end mill for aluminum

hi!! what is your mist coolant please!! thank you so much

Could the irregularities be re-cutting of chips?

looks like that shorter wavelength section happens every two revs, what's your spindle pulley ratio as the issue could be upstream from the spindle itself

it probably the harmonics of the control loop keeping speed & position.

Woa... now that's impressive 31 dollars for a half inch em in 2019, its hard to find a standard em for that price.

Hi John I have a question: How can i save the same part with 2 different spices? Let’s say they both have the same holes and side dimensions but one is shorter than the other.

I haven’t found any end mill give mirror finish like Destiny Viper still to date.

Great info, as always. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the cool content

TY FOR METRIC!!!

Nice one John!

Do you use some kind of tables or charts, that gives you feed and speeds? Or just run it

Using a plain shank endmill on a set screw holder? Anybody else doing that? can't see holding on heavy cuts

YG-1 is almost all the tools I'm using. They are decent tool.

I use the same tool they are brilliant

Run the YG1 at 8000 RPM and 96 IPM, I have found that to be the best

Try yg1 alupower hpc... even better than alupower. They are my favorite endmills and pricing is good. Also try out their powdered metal t15 speed freak on aluminum for roughing. Carbide can't even hang with this rougher...

Ahh the more you know the more you find out you don't know. :-) We now need a slow mo camera to determine what those extra lines were.

I'd like to see what readings you come up with if you measure the unevenness of your right-hand thumb nail. Dang man! It looks like you accidentally ran an 1/8" ball nose end mill over that thumb nail a few times before moving your thumb out of the way. I got some hand scars that would make you cringe too.

I need to get a mirror surface on cast HastC276. Any suggestions

Question: How much did you take off in one sweep ? that info was missing?

What’s the Ra on your thumb nail?!? Take care of your tools John! 🙃