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Agile Estimating + Planning - The Planning Fallacy

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Development That Pays

Development That Pays

Күн бұрын

When will it be finished? Seems like a reasonable question. It isn't.
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Today we'll meet Daniel Kahneman. (He's a Nobel Prize winner, so he's kind of a big deal.) His work help us to understand why estimates are so often wrong. Really wrong.
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This Part 2 of an Agile Estimating mini-series. If you missed Part 1, start here: • Is Agile estimating an...
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119. Agile Estimating + Planning - The Planning Fallacy
#AgileEstimating #DevelopmentThatPays
I am terrible at estimating. But I take comfort from the fact that you’re terrible at estimating too. Welcome to Development that Pays My name is Gary Straughan And welcome back to this “mini-series” on Agile Estimation and Planning. If you missed the first episode this link will take to you to in and deliver you automatically right back to this point. It’s a while since we’ve seen the Lego team. Let’s bring them back in, Our hero, the developer in blue Is working on an important feature. Not an improvement to an existing feature. A brand new features. A feature that - with a bit of luck - will be a game-changer for the business. And then it happens. A sequence of events… that may be familiar to you. The Boss asks the Product Owner a question: “When will it be ready ” The Product Owner seeks out the blue developer. And asks him a question: “When will it be ready ” The Blue developer thinks about it for a moment and says... We’ll come back to this in a moment. This is Danny Kahneman Nobel Laureate, no less. Early in his career, he was part of a team working on a new textbook a new university curriculum. A year in, and the the project was going well. Kahneman had the idea of asking the team a question. The question was, more or less “When will it be ready ” He didn’t ask the question in open forum; Each of the team wrote their answer on a piece of paper. When Kahneman read the responses He found they were in broad agreement Everyone thought it would take 18 months to 2.5 years to complete the project. Now, one on the members of the team was the Dean of the School of Education. And it occurred to Kahneman to ask him another question. He asked if he could think of other teams that have done what we’re trying to do And he said that he could How did they get on Well… not all of them succeeded. About 40% of them… gave up. And those that succeed The Dean couldn’t think of ny that took less than 7 years. Khanman realised that something funny was going on here: The Dean had all the information he needed to make a much better estimate. But he - like the others - had estimated between 18 months and 2.5 years. Khanman went on - with long-time collaborator Amos Tversky - to study this phenomenon in detail. And in 1979 they proposed the Planning Fallacy. As Wikipedia puts it: “a phenomenon in which predictions about how much time will be needed to complete a future task display an optimism bias and underestimate the time needed.” So when the Boss asks the Product Owner “When will it be ready ” And the Product Owner asks the Developer “When will it be ready ” The answer that the developer gives is high likely to be wrong. It’s likely to be far too optimistic. Even if the developer knows that similar tasks performed by others have taken longer. Indeed… even if the developer knows that similar tasks performed by HIMSELF have taken longer. (Or herself,. I do try to me gender- neutral around here. But this one looks like a guy to me.) So this sequence of questions is, at the very least, not helpful Just pause for a moment and think about how you feel about that. Perhaps you think that this question is more than reasonable. That you need some measure of predictability to do your job. Or perhaps your in this position - the Product Owner. Perhaps you’re feeling just a little bit insulted, because you’d never ask a developer for an estimate - at least, not in this way. Or perhaps you’re thinking something else. If so, I’d love to know what it is. Let me know in the comments below. // Add in the end Is there a way to give each of these people what they need I’m not sure… but we’ll take a step in that direction in the next episode. If you enjoyed this epsiode, please give it thumbs up. Share it with your network. And hit the logo right here For a new episode every Wednesday.
• Agile Estimating + Pla...

Пікірлер: 44
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
The Lego team is back! Enjoy!
@Grant.johnson
@Grant.johnson 2 жыл бұрын
Love this video, thanks for sharing! Can you tell me where you found this information? I want to learn more on his time working on curriculum, thanks in advance!
@JSitalia
@JSitalia 6 жыл бұрын
Hi @gary. This is a video I really enjoyed. In my current team, we estimate using story points just because, as you said, estimating in terms of time is something extremely inaccurate. Using story points, however, doesn't solve the problem but just move the attention to a different question: how complex this task is? I believe, the only reasonable solution is splitting the problem is really small tasks individually achievable in 1 or max 2 days. Doing this way, you can just calculate time based on the number of tickets/resources you have in your team. Thanks
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
You're right: Story Points is one of the ways to get to better estimates. I'm also a fan of the 1-2 day tasks - I'm curious, is your team a Kanban team?
@JSitalia
@JSitalia 6 жыл бұрын
Sort of. We're moving towards that direction but we're still releasing multiple features together. So we still have a "Ready to deploy" column in between "In progress" and "Done" .
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Sounds good. 👍
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Do you use a physical board? A release card works well: a larger card on which the feature-cards-for-the-release are stuck.
@andreasonny83
@andreasonny83 6 жыл бұрын
We have both a physical board used during stand-ups and a virtual board in where adding a more technical description of the tasks. Good idea to use a larger card, however, everything we accumulate under the ready to deploy column is released together so, I guess, it's the same as having a big release card.
@adamcsherwood
@adamcsherwood 6 жыл бұрын
Love the video and looking forward to the follow up one Gary! Your timing question creates a healthy tension that's needed to facilitate peak performance. The key is a both / and collaborative perspective over an adversarial either / or one.
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Do you think it facilitates peak performance? (It doesn't for me... but perhaps that's because I'm a developer!)
@adamcsherwood
@adamcsherwood 6 жыл бұрын
Development That Pays - Absolutely! Without timelines and estimates things tend to drag on longer than necessary costing too much money. If we get to restrictive though with hard, non flexible deadlines they can cause bad work. Ideally, an ebb and flow with two way communication that adapts to the situation nets some of the soundest results. This means the developer considers not only their own perspective, but also the product owner's and vice versa.
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
"Without timelines and estimates things tend to drag on longer than necessary[...]" - I'm not sure that applies to an individual (developer) task, but it can apply elsewhere - such as a Sprint.
@phillipmartin5362
@phillipmartin5362 6 жыл бұрын
Love all these videos they're brilliant, production is always really nice, just felt it warranted a comment. Thanks.
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Thank you! 👍
@terjes64
@terjes64 2 жыл бұрын
My problem with estimating, is that stakeholders (often paying customer) thinks that the estimate = maximum time they have to pay for. We need a new word for them to understand. Ballpark?
@ChuckUnderFire
@ChuckUnderFire 6 жыл бұрын
These are EASILY the best developer or even Professional development videos on KZfaq. I’d say I wish more people put things together this well, but really I’d rather you get all the views and everyone else just stop making videos... would make the searching WAY easier.
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Thank might just be the nicest comment EVER! Thank you!
@nyrtzi
@nyrtzi 6 жыл бұрын
If the thing itself is a learning process in doing something that hasn't been done before then isn't the correct answer to the question of "How long will it take?" basically just "I'm working on figuring that out by doing it. I'll tell you how long it took after I'm done with it." ?
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Exactly! I planned a whole episode on answering that question, but you've nailed it in a single sentence.
@jamesallen74
@jamesallen74 6 жыл бұрын
Optimism effect- so we end up padding the estimate. But then we suffer from Student Syndrome. We procrastinate and start a task later than we should because we feel positive about it. And we end up losing the benefit of the padding. So we are late anyways. lol
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
You're right: knowing that we tend to be optimistic, it's only natural to "pad". I didn't know "student syndrome" was a thing; I knew I was guilty of it... but I didn't know I could look it up on Wikipedia!
@davidroseitg
@davidroseitg 5 жыл бұрын
This is why one uses Kanban
@noedits5543
@noedits5543 2 жыл бұрын
I feel I am seeing videos in this channel but not coming to any conclusion, just moving from one video to another knowing about things that wont work. The presentation is soo good but the videos leave me with the same emptiness which I had before watching the video. Although respect you for your experience, effort and dedication.
@alandmcleod5988
@alandmcleod5988 4 жыл бұрын
Great vid as they all are :-) I am a developer working on freelance on fixed-price assignments. I tend to have an optimistic estimate which I then multiply by 3. Seems to work :-)
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 4 жыл бұрын
Seems about right 😂
@DingoAteMeBaby
@DingoAteMeBaby 3 жыл бұрын
wait but if you have a 40% fail rate, if you can do 3-4 projects (.40^3 fail rate)) in 7-10 years, isn the end result the same?
@jamesallen74
@jamesallen74 6 жыл бұрын
Your door and light switch are distracting. Just go to a blank white room. JOKING. Great video!
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Made me laugh out loud 😂
@salmanbaig3582
@salmanbaig3582 3 жыл бұрын
Yep I even saw a ghost looking in from the door opening
@idselseno2306
@idselseno2306 6 жыл бұрын
"When will it be ready?" - the uncle of "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything".
@karlsarch
@karlsarch 6 жыл бұрын
Oh, then I can estimate it! 42 days!
@chieduagain
@chieduagain 4 жыл бұрын
Goodness this & the previous one is just talk & no info
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays Жыл бұрын
Yeah. Maybe not my best work.
@rogs6802
@rogs6802 6 жыл бұрын
How I hate your cliffhangers 😜
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Sometimes - and this _may_ have been one of those cases! - I just don't know what to say next 😜
@rogs6802
@rogs6802 6 жыл бұрын
Please just hint me in the right direction 🙈 i have a Job Interview tomorrow afternoon I would looove to have a good answer to that (or at least a clue I can work with🙏😊🙈)
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Think it's the case that "Agile" is aware of this problem (the Planning fallacy)... and has a few "tactics" to combat it: (1) we estimate as a group - think Planning Poker; (2) we don't estimate "when will it be finished". We even try not to think about duration. Instead, we have notions of "size"/ complexity - think Story Points. Is that helpful?
@rogs6802
@rogs6802 6 жыл бұрын
Development That Pays thank you so much !!
@Developmentthatpays
@Developmentthatpays 6 жыл бұрын
Good luck with the interview!
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