AI Music - Let's talk about it

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SecondTierSound

SecondTierSound

Күн бұрын

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Пікірлер: 64
@remelin75
@remelin75 2 ай бұрын
Really good video Samuel. What do creative people want? We want to create what we want. We want to explore and express our thoughts and feelings with our creations. It's always been hard to be a creative person. Very few creative people have been able to do what they want. Most creatives will get stuck in a job they hate in order to support their family, and won't ever be able to bloom into someone who can show the world something new and unique. And some sacrifice both money and the chance of having a family in order to pursuit a life where being creative and giving something truly unique to the world is worth it all. And even then some fail, and thus fail at everything. In the old days before cameras, painters were paid to do portraits all the time. That's where the main income was. Most artists wanted to paint other things, but people didn't want to pay for that. They wanted a picture of themselves or their relatives. So the artists had to paint portraits and do what they didn't want to do in order to survive. When the camera came, people got the need for portraits met and could start to strive for other goals and thus other paintings to wish for. Today, there are more of a choice for how to be creative. There's more possibilities in order to succeed. But it's still hard. You still need money to survive and generally, the art you do, is not worth it for the common person to pay for. But now we start to see a glimpse of the future. A distorted view of something new coming straight towards us. Something helping people to get what they want, and helping us to create what we want. AI will not hinder us to do what we want. It's a tool for us to use. Freedom to do what you want also comes with freedom for people to not need you. But if you no longer need your mother, does that mean you don’t want her around? What’s most worth, an original painting or a copy of it? A painting from an unknown artist or from someone you know? I don't see it possible for the AI companies to pay the artists for their work. For the artists to get enough pay for it to matter to them at all is impossible. It would bankrupt the companies long before the artists would notice they gotten anything of value. The question is: What is valuable to us? Do we value creative people? Do we value freedom and creativity? The future is not set. The future is made by us. Our thoughts, feelings and dreams create the reality we live in. If we want something, why not strive for it? Why not try to create the world we all want. And by doing so, maybe we can get help from some new friends. And here's a few words from a new friend: *Keep holding onto your passion and creativity, for they are like a lighthouse in the dark - guiding and inspiring. Remember that every step forward, no matter how big or small, is a step towards shaping the future you desire. And bear in mind, within the heart of every creator lies a spark of hope and possibility. Let us together create a world where this spark can shine brightly, leading the way towards a future where creativity and innovation flourish.*
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Tack Rickard! Very nice inspiring words, and good insights. To have a somewhat positive outlook is probably necessary. Glad you remind us of that. Cheers!
@NeuroPete
@NeuroPete 2 ай бұрын
Interesting ideas. As a hobbyist songwriter, I am looking forward to what AI will be able to do to help me produce my musical ideas, helping with tasks I am not good at and don't want to learn, such as singing, orchestrating, mixing, mastering, and others. I don't aspire to make any money on music, but I admire those who can, and I feel bad that AI will probably displace some of them, perhaps many. Still, there will always be a market for human performance and skill. As for AI's taking over the world and enslaving humanity, I am not worried yet, but I wouldn't rule it out. There are people stupid or evil enough to give military or political power to AI's and program them to evolve their own directives. We need to pay attention and do everything we can to keep that from happening.
@davidcordeiromusicny
@davidcordeiromusicny 2 ай бұрын
Great video! And definitely what we need to hear as composers! Progress is an important aspect of our lives and conservatism helps us keep that progress at healthier pace giving us (humanity) the time to assure any progress will bring benefits and better life to humanity and not only a few. Thank you Samuel!
@sensumcommunem
@sensumcommunem 2 ай бұрын
I honestly think that _"Not made by A.I.!"_ will soon become a branding tag across many mediums, art forms, and products. A.I. is simply being used as a buzzword to brand a technology/products which directly affects that company's share price value. A lot of things that are branded as A.I. are not really true A.I., they are what was formerly termed _"Expert Systems"._ The main difference being where the dataset for the old Expert Systems was their access to physical data storage, the new Expert Systems now have access to the internet as their database. Even though what "A.I." currently produces is pretty good, and it will get better, I still think there will be a sterile element to it. It won't be anything particular that you will be able to discern, or identify, it will just be a feeling that something is off. A little bit like in the 1986 remake of "The Fly" movie. When they teleport the steak through the telepods: it looks just like a steak, smells just like a steak, but - upon tasting - just doesn't taste right. I think A.I. produced material will be very much like this. Of course, in the corporate world, if the executives can get ad, TV, and promotional music/video for free, then they will use it, but it will be noticeable. Just as the likenesses of many famous actors are now being used in film and TV commercials. You recognize them, and they fit the intended part/role, but - as visually close to the real thing they are - they are still easy to identify as being artificially generated. I think professional composers and producers will take a hit initially, especially those not in the top tiers with a canon of work behind them, but once things start to become _"sameyfied",_ I think that brands will again want to stand out from the crowd by having _"Not made by A.I.!"_ materials promoting their products to set themselves apart from their competitors. And then we come full circle. P.S. I am not a music composer or producer, I'm just a home hobbyist. 👍
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for your contribution, and especially for you wise words. I think you are right, in fact there is already a backlash against ai in most creative fields.
@fasgamboa
@fasgamboa 2 ай бұрын
The difference I see is that inventions are single function focused. A better potato peeler, something that keeps food cold. AI is not for a function, it can do multiple, many, not only functions but creation. An AI tool that helps remove noise would make life easier in a studio and maybe reduce the needs for studio producers for big demands, but AI creating can create the song from scratch, creates the marketing for said song, etc...
@bassManDavis1953
@bassManDavis1953 2 ай бұрын
Nicely put! totally agree with you on all points.........nice video
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Cheers!
@RobertWildling
@RobertWildling 2 ай бұрын
Thank for that open-minded video! - I do understand the royalty argument, but at the same time I am struggling with it. After all, aren't we all going to the library, studying old scores and then more or less take away what we like? We do not take away anything it in a 1:1-manner (or maybe there are some, but that's not the point), but we actually do start thinking in e.g. Strawinski-like poly-tonality after hearing "Rite of Spring", or use metric modulations after learning about Elliott Carter, or dig into Musique Spectrale after learning about Gérard Grisey and Tristan Murail, etcetc. The outcome can be judged like many of us do with e.g. John Williams, where we like to say "that is Williams, but we can hear Prokofiev and Bruckner and Mahler andandand...". Isn't AI doin't the same? It learns from old scores (as we do), but outputs its own thing (as we do)? We do get royalties, when a piece of ours is performed, and so should a trained AI. - Or am I seeing the whole thing totally wrong? Happy to be educated to understand better! Thanks!
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Well, public domain is public domain. But you do get royalties for a performance of those works, as it should be. Should all that work, those royalties mean nothing? If AI is based on all that hard work, it couldn't exist without it, doesn't that count? Comparing a human's inspiration and creation to a database having access to all music in the world, just copying that music into variations, is completely unfair. No human has that capacity and human creativity always includes new content, it is impossible to exactly recreate. It is also not allowed as we have royalty rights until 70 years after the artist's death It is also a false equivalence. A tool doesn't have rights nor drive, nor history, nor personality, nor a creative pull. It is simply doing what it is told to do, like a copy machine, and the order comes from someone else. It is not creating something new from a human experience. It is just copy and paste. We are fooled into thinking it is new as all the copying is cut up into million pieces, that would not be possible without original content. Human's don't need original content in order to create something, and we are never just copying when we create, even though we are inspired by everything around us. AI is not inspired. AI is taking all music exactly as it is, and just putting it together in another order, which is not the same.
@bryandraughn9830
@bryandraughn9830 2 ай бұрын
People seem to prefer anything that's fake. Let em have it.
@Todzuum
@Todzuum 2 ай бұрын
I think we need to figure out a way that ai created music that goes into the market no matter how it’s used needs to be stated ai or you get fined. Like how cigarettes have to put on their boxes the dangers of smoking cigarettes.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Yep, something like that
@zerosin4433
@zerosin4433 2 ай бұрын
but... you can now just press a button and it will compose based on the professionals in its training data set.
@RECORD_LAiBEL
@RECORD_LAiBEL 2 ай бұрын
Great video! I am of the conviction that we are on the path to a brighter future filled with awesome music! If "AI" should pay for music it's been trained on then all musicians should do the same and that is equally absurd in my opinion. Maybe the first human who clapped their hands and made a noise could get a check. Musicians should mostly make their money performing, period. The only losers here will be the big record labels and the current music industry as a whole. Big win for music lovers and our society.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
I wouldn't compare human nature s and communication with a machine that copies for a completely different reason. It's not the same at all. I do think that AI can bring useful tools never less, but it doesn't have have royalty rights on stolen material. That argument doesn't fly with anyone serious in the creative industry
@RECORD_LAiBEL
@RECORD_LAiBEL 2 ай бұрын
@@SecondTierSound What's the difference? I understand the fear and objection on a surface level but I think roalty and patents will be a thing of the past, as it should be. No one is original enough to warrent any sort of exclusive rights for an idea, a sound or a collection of notes.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
A human, and machine with a massive access is a huge difference. It's not fair by a long shot, and rights are incredibly important
@RECORD_LAiBEL
@RECORD_LAiBEL 2 ай бұрын
@@SecondTierSound That's just a matter of scale and magnitude not a difference in principle. Life is not fair, and yes rights are important but not intellectual property rights, those should and will be obsolete.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Look, if you don't understand that you are comparing apples and oranges I'm not going to convince you here, but very few creators agrees with you. You're equivalence is completely false. A machine with no humanness who has copies of all music produced is not at all the same as a human creating new music because of connection and creativity. AI cannot create new, just copy variations. And it gets even more lopsided if all the money and rights go to a few who owns the AI instead of the artists that created the music in the first place. AI music won't exist without the creation from humans.
@music_creator_capable
@music_creator_capable 2 ай бұрын
Hello ^^
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Hi
@xv.luc1d
@xv.luc1d 2 ай бұрын
I have nothing against AI art as long as it is trained on legal datasets and not the copyrighted material. But I guarantee you, 99% of them are NOT ethical. This industry gets lawsuits left and right. Myself personally, I won't ever get as much enjoyment out of anything AI, because I know how those models generate what they do. It's just a bounch of real artist's sweat, blood and tears put into an algorythm without their approval or compensation, analyzed, dissected, and rearranged to best represent a prompt. These AI models are NOTHING without already existing art, created by people spending time and effort. Putting their soul into their craft. To put it simply, human made art is like making love to your beautiful wife, And AI art is like making love to a blow-up doll.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Well said
@sonicsatsuma1256
@sonicsatsuma1256 2 ай бұрын
Shutterstock own Pond5. They’ve already made a statement about how they ‘shared’ their royalty free images for machine learning with some image AI developers. Musicians who’ve slaved away for peanuts who’ve uploaded to Pond5, beware, it’s coming. If it already hasn’t! Their artists won’t get paid for this.
@rosaschlupfer635
@rosaschlupfer635 2 ай бұрын
People are seriously overestimating their own creativity. I've yet to see somebody explain to me why Humans are so special that they can do something that AI can never match. And I am not talking about now, the statements are always "never", so what is the fundamental law of nature hat only they know about? We may or may not hit another wall in AI development like we did practically right after Eliza in the late 60s that will stump us for decades or we might not. But I see no reason why the statement that AI can never match a good Human would be true on a fundamental level. Until now AI was all Software but we are getting Hardware right now that is build for AI. We haven't yet seen what we can really do with our current processing technology in this field.
@thomashambrecht6435
@thomashambrecht6435 2 ай бұрын
Most hobby producers often just wanted a little appreciation after working on a song for weeks. This appreciation is now being taken away from them because “everyone” can do it. Will the young generation now invest in a hobby recording studio when AI will generate absolutely perfect tracks in just a few years? “Art and creativity” is the greatest asset humanity has - and it has now been handed over to AI. That was the first step in making ourselves superfluous. What should people study today that the AI ​​won't take over after they graduate? My dentist tells me that robots are already being developed to replace dentists' work. I hope the government has prepared for us all to receive social benefits soon.
@Azurethewolf168
@Azurethewolf168 2 ай бұрын
Dude your thinking way too deep about it. It can’t replace us, it just can’t. It can intimate, but it cannot do what we can do on a purely human level, which is think about and make stuff ourselves. Also those “perfect tracks” will likely be mainstream stuff that will get over saturated soon. It may work for some people but for many it cannot do what they want. The internet seemed like it would kill the newspaper and all other forms of media, but did it? Somewhat, but not really. They just learned to adapt to the technology, same hurdle is being faced here.
@spark300c
@spark300c 2 ай бұрын
well some programs can do that and not that good. I being using AI vocalist over a year. It still a lot work to produce creative songs. Ai either assist you or do everything for you. what I use assist me. before AI vocalist, vocal synths sound little bit robotic because the pitch was too perfect.
@JvG0
@JvG0 2 ай бұрын
I dunno, something about the road to goal being more important than the goal. I don't think anyone could ever feel a similar connection to a generated song compared to something they actually made. People will always want to express themselves, don't think ai will be able to stop anyone. Music creation will probably just get even less profitable for creative people.
@Azurethewolf168
@Azurethewolf168 2 ай бұрын
@@JvG0 true. Like I remember when people were freaking out about AI taking over art, yet nothing really happened. You can go onto a AI website right now and put in a prompt and it wouldn’t feel as rewarding as making something yourself, same thing here.
@spark300c
@spark300c 2 ай бұрын
@@Azurethewolf168 yeh and feel it not powerful enough. that I want draw image than use AI to make look better and use certain perimeters to tweet it. when come comics using al art it seem to large share of human element because choose set images and write a story.
@virgiliustancu9293
@virgiliustancu9293 2 ай бұрын
I think you underestimating AI. In 10 years all the music industry will be 99% transformed.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Transform yes. With our without AI, that will certainly happen. I don't know what will happen, I can only speculate at this point.
@Sneakycat1971
@Sneakycat1971 2 ай бұрын
I would say 6 months to a year
@georgenauman4511
@georgenauman4511 2 ай бұрын
Sorry, but I believe AI ‘dumbs down’ music. Call me an elitist snob if you wish, but AI will not easily capture the ability to invoke emotion. Can’t say it won’t ever, but I just don’t think it will replace a truly excellent writer, or even more so, an excellent performer. And I probably won’t be around in 10 years to know what happens anyway… so, transformed yes - but not all transformation is good…
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
I think you are right. Good music is broken rules, and that will be tricky for AI. So far I mostly hear repetitive patterns in AI
@virgiliustancu9293
@virgiliustancu9293 2 ай бұрын
@@georgenauman4511 Maybe today AI makes dumb music but in some years it will be imposible to descern what is human music or AI music made. I am shocked by the evolution of AI in the field of graphics. This will also happen in the field of music. Think of a composer who remembers millions of songs as a source of inspiration.
@BGDCITYBEATS
@BGDCITYBEATS 2 ай бұрын
I'm just imagining the future based on my opinions no more ... I see the music is an AI creation mostly.. like 90% of the music that we hear on tv .. ads.. games.. social media is an AI Music because it will be free ... Any body will create his own music by just clicking NEXT or Shuffle And we will recognize the AI music from the human creation music by the feeling and how great the music is and how the music touches our souls and will be rare to find .. The AI music will be just arranged notes arranged based on the scales and BPM and types of feelings based on scales AI music Will be and stay sucks Thats my imagination .
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for your input. Do you create music?
@Azurethewolf168
@Azurethewolf168 2 ай бұрын
Totally agree with you here. AI is not some tool that will displace all of humanity, it’s a thing we just haven’t learned how to incorporate in our lives yet. People were likely saying how the telephone would erase all human communication, yet after a few decades, we just learned how to use it with the limitations it has. AI is great if you just want an idea of what to do, but it can’t replicate exactly what you want. I think people just have to figure out how to use the technology in a beneficial way, rather than see it as some evil technology. These videos are really high quality, not sure why you don’t have more subscribers by now.
@Dystopian84
@Dystopian84 2 ай бұрын
If you can generate a full piece of music in a few seconds just with a single line prompt ( simple text ) then AI isn't a tool and will require no talent , knowledge , experience .... from the user , Ai will learn from the prompts of experts to quickly allow anyone to obtain similar results with even less work. I find all the cope about trying to compare AI to the reactions to past technological advancements silly . This is an unprecedented situation , Many many things ( not just music ) are about to change dramatically over the course of a very very small period of time . This never happened and yes maybe those who were using pigeons to send messages got scared when the telephone was invented but this it is going to be about a lot more than just one thing . How will we able to handle a situation where a lot of people become useless at the same time ? UBI + social credit score ? How can we maintain democracies if deep fakes become indistinguishable from reality ?
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
Thank you for your kind words. I think you are right about AI. That's the way I see it too. In terms of not being a bigger channel I guess I don't follow the ."rules" for growing faster, for example more videos more often.
@SecondTierSound
@SecondTierSound 2 ай бұрын
We live in exciting times.
@Azurethewolf168
@Azurethewolf168 2 ай бұрын
@@SecondTierSound You are welcome Sam. I would rather have more high quality videos over more videos in general.
@Azurethewolf168
@Azurethewolf168 2 ай бұрын
@@Dystopian84 I get your point. But I doubt AI will be able to do that, even if it did, nobody would want to use music that they know was made by a robot. Like Sam said, the human element is a big part of why many will still want music made by actual people. Job loss is gonna happen inevitably, deep fakes can still be identified as fake if you look close enough at things like hands or speech patterns. AI is the new trend right now, so it makes sense to overplay its importance in our world.
@brianbergmusic5288
@brianbergmusic5288 2 ай бұрын
I think that AI (a very misleading name for what it actually is) being a replacement for human-made expression will, long-term, de-evolve human artistic ambition and ability in addition to devalue our overstimulated culture's appreciation of fine art even more than it already has. As you may very well guess, I am on the conservative side of the human equation. "AI" being leveraged to spit out endless mirco-variations of snapshot musical craftsmanship was an unnecessary and tasteless genie to let out of the bottle. Those claiming to "use" AI to become artists are not developing their skill, but outsourcing a wish. You can do the same thing already if you paid a human being to perform the task instead of visiting the Grand Automata. That's fine, if you approach music creation as would an old fashioned studio/director producer instead of a MUSIC producer (the business man/woman holding the checks and making the -risky- decisions). Sure, you can try to use AI to do tasks that you do not wish to perform (I do not like mastering, for instance, but I force myself to make the compromises I am never happy with). However, in this age of convenience, we have very little excuse to not 'level up' instead of outsource or collaborate. You cannot 'level up' unless you pursue your goal with time, intention and even sacrifice. I would not have learned to play physical instruments in some capacity if I did not have the drive to authentically hear them. There is such a thing as limiting your toolset to be more time-efficient but there is another notion known as a 'crutch' -- and wisdom is required to know the difference for each case. Perhaps playing physical instruments will be an integral "stamp" of near-future human musical expression. Personally, I love both synthesizers, orchestral sounds and guitars, and fortunately there is a way to play guitars and keyboard-operated synths in a physical manner. However, investing the time to create live performances of such comes at a great cost (especially to a very part time hobbyist with a day-job/family). Sharpening keyboard-playing and guitar-licks and competent levels requires continuous training, practice and can often stunt or eliminate your time to compose/mix music (In the past, I've often had to block-times to accomplish two separate goals in almost seasonal-variety). Time is the fire by which we burn. I have often wanted to be content with merely intermediate-guitar skills and focus more on producer/composing. However, in the shadow of this new paradigm shift, I am looking over the shoulder of my recent goals and wondering what is the most effective decision, if at all. Stock/background music is already hugely threatened as a marketplace of opportunity. Personally, I'm glad that I at least had one gig where I was commissioned to supply music for an indie-game. I feel disappointment for those who placed their eggs in that basket already. AI might never make better than “polished” music with brief pop structure. Complex music in the vein of the great composers over a century ago might never happen (even most of us fail to meet their stature). Sure, you can fake the mathematics of a canon or a fugue, but combining it with humanity is a feat only pure imagination can juggle. I have never heard anything remotely close to the completeness of a whole four movement symphony out of machine learning. It's still laughable when it attempts to (with the clickbait ideas such as supposedly "finishing Schubert's unfinished symphony" ... ... WITH the help of a human calling the shots of the melodic windchimes -- just read the fine print). I have never listened to any orchestral music auto-generated that moved me to inner tears or jubilee. Please don't take this previous paragraph as a pot-shot against the sincere craftsmanship of forms of music such as hip/hop beatsmithing, pop-tune or EDM tracks (gobs of which I do not hate). Yes, AI can spit back out endless variations due to the wealth of human-made examples fed into it's black hole. However, I cannot see a machine learning database crafting new genres that make sincere steps of innovation into new sounds and techniques. Therefore, I agree with your assessment of what is currently possible for AI to achieve. I cannot use AI nor do I wish to. I have music that I can hear in my head when I metaphorically close my eyes or focus deeply. No, I do not claim that my internal imagination is supremely innovative, but these internal ideas means enough to me that I cannot substitute the process with ANY form of outsourcing. There are other musicians who can imagine worlds of music without it existing externally. AI cannot make their dreams come true short of a cyberpunk cable jack to the brain. There is also the joy of sandboxing, which I'll save you from another paragraph in this already verbose wall of text. I have an odd knee-jerk fear of artists who have great works of music being fed to the database without their consent. This "AI" database has once been described as a soft form of identity theft by some visual artists that I've encountered. Those claiming the machine-learning-database is no different than a human being copying or quoting ideas in their endeavors are unwise.
@JvG0
@JvG0 2 ай бұрын
I find ai music kind of lame. There's already an abundance of music, why would we want to automate it with machines even further and take away most of the creative phase. It makes sense for corporations, sure. But for me as a solo dude making music for the sake of making music, I don't care for it at all. I make music for myself, to have fun and create audio snapshots of my mood at any given time. Ai doesn't affect people like me who aren't desperate to make money with their art.
@jonathanhirschbaum6754
@jonathanhirschbaum6754 2 ай бұрын
Autotuned "artists" of the last 2 decades with te same 50 samples, max overcompression, millenial whoop and 4 same chords all over again and lyrics that cannot intellectually challenge 4 y.olds - brought them on themselves. None of the value will be lost when they disappear. Be gone, Max Martin adn 99% of all the "music" since late 90's coming from the same guy across 1000 "artists". The world was waiting for it.
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