Air/Fuel Wideband vs Oxygen Sensors (O2 sensors)- The Demise of Shadetree Mechanics? Part1

  Рет қаралды 312,612

Schrodingers Box

Schrodingers Box

Күн бұрын

In this video you will join me in learning about the new Air/Fuel Sensors (AKA Wideband O2 Sensors) used on vehicles today which replace the traditional Zirconia Oxygen Sensors. Understanding operation, how to diagnose sensor faults, and how to interpret outputs are covered with the intended audience being shadetree/home mechanics or serious hobbyists who want to increase their evidence-based diagnostic skills and not make 5 trips to the parts store when they try to fix their car!
Part 2 is HERE: • Air/Fuel Sensors (Wide...
Useful Links:
Understanding O2 sensors and Fuel Trims:
• Secret of Engine Probl...
A review of ScanTools optimal for shadetree mechanics:
• Scantool Review for Ho...
A good case study to understand O2 sensor diagnosis:
• Diagnosing random misf...

Пікірлер: 514
@seiyoseki5851
@seiyoseki5851 3 жыл бұрын
I learnt the fuel trims lessons (2 parts) from this guy, everything he says, guys. Super useful, accurate.
@apollomedia7210
@apollomedia7210 Жыл бұрын
Didn’t hesitate and watched those 2 videos. No regrets, every second was worth it, every second full of useful information.
@whykenneth
@whykenneth 2 жыл бұрын
You are such a nice person making us all so comfortable attending the free tutorial. The knowledge that i learned in just the last few hours benefited me my whole life.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad to hear that! thanks!!
@krisstanford9925
@krisstanford9925 4 жыл бұрын
You’re doing great work in your channel. I have recently subscribed and I like all the information that you share. Knowing how and why things work has to be the most appreciated part about your videos. Great work!
@TheLionsView
@TheLionsView 2 жыл бұрын
Great job on your videos. I have had a auto shop for over 31 years and I am using you videos to train my techs.... keep them coming!!!!
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome, thank you!
@ghanimalkuwari5090
@ghanimalkuwari5090 5 жыл бұрын
I wish everyone explains the way you do ...amazing !! Keep up the great job
@carllucci2974
@carllucci2974 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for putting all of these types of videos together. Very informative!
@JArtMiller
@JArtMiller 5 жыл бұрын
I was a fire service instructor for many years, a SME for the FBI. Nice work here. You ascribe to my favorite training phrase; "Tell me and I understand, show me and I learn."
@aliceajr02
@aliceajr02 7 жыл бұрын
So I came across your channel while studying for my ASE recertification test. I love what you are doing any you explian everything very well. I have been a tech for 15 years and I can honestly say you have a better understanding of Automotive technology then most of the technicians I have worked with.
@jasonbrown467
@jasonbrown467 5 жыл бұрын
seems like most people dont care about their trade or skill set. the people who care are motivated to climb to the top and it the knowledge comes easy. but every time i hire a "pro" seems like they only care about the pay check. most mechanics seem to not even test their own work. 70% of the time i take my vehicles to the shop i get to take it right back to them on the same trip the day i pick it up. hence why i now do all my own work. this seems to apply to all fields not just automotive
@faisalsayeed3883
@faisalsayeed3883 7 жыл бұрын
Excellent intro to the basics of diagnostics. Thanks for sharing.
@jaykallionosio1190
@jaykallionosio1190 7 жыл бұрын
As a long time subscriber of both of your channels, I owe you a HUGE!! thankyou. Your videos along with your unique and specialized brainstorming super powers, have pushed me from a basic DIY mechanic to a auto technician. Your methods of diagnostics, along with the WHITE BORD OF KNOWLEDGE are truly amazing. I have been working at a shop for 3 months, and have even received a raise today because the owner is so impressed of my ("your") scientific methodology in diagnostics. YOUR strategic diagnostic mindset and teaching skills has allowed me to be more than successful. I know 30+ year techs could learn from you. You have given me a career from a Hobbie. You are 100% responsible for my success. I truly am great full. Please keep sharing your "brain". Sincerely Jay
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 7 жыл бұрын
Wow what a great compliment Jay!! Thanks for writing and for your support!
@geraldmartin3625
@geraldmartin3625 6 жыл бұрын
What is his other channel called?
@phigo4kins
@phigo4kins 4 жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox Hi, Can You please see what You can tell Me about the voltage reading on this O2 sensor reading please? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zrieecp1tdPYiKs.html. It all stems from a P0056 Code, In this one I had aftermarket O2 sensor and wasn't getting any reading on either of the downstream O2 sensors, They both sit steady at 1.3V. Thanks.
@phigo4kins
@phigo4kins 4 жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox In this one I went with NGK/NTK O2 Sensors as I read alot is the factory OEM part and the only O2 sensors that works on Late Model chrysler 300M (2002). After I changed the O2 sensor, I started getting reading On the Bank 2 Sensor 2 which is the same bank the DTC is pointing towards, But the Code would not go away or even clear. Can You help? Thanks.
@davewright1542
@davewright1542 7 жыл бұрын
Great information on the air/fuel sensor. I really enjoy your video's. The information is awesome. Thanks for taking the time to put this on!
@TheDisgruntledMechanic
@TheDisgruntledMechanic 7 жыл бұрын
That's Mr. Asshat to you! Don't know how I missed this one earlier. Thanks Matt.
@daleturnley5882
@daleturnley5882 4 жыл бұрын
Your bookshelf looks a lot like mine. Nothing better than knowing how to do your own work. Another great and informative video to po it into the knowledge base.
@38elcp
@38elcp 3 жыл бұрын
For me, your board truly is "The dry erase board of Knowledge" Thanks!
@SteveRobReviews
@SteveRobReviews 10 жыл бұрын
Well done, well spoken and understood , great info Matt Thanks.
@john2123
@john2123 6 ай бұрын
This dude level of teching is high.. I dont have to repeat his videos to understand👍
@dkeny55
@dkeny55 3 жыл бұрын
The best tutorial I have seen online about wide band O2s. Thanks So Much!!!
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 3 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@erendidagomez6302
@erendidagomez6302 3 жыл бұрын
You are great at teaching. For a long time I’ve had a lean code on my F-150 2001 that I could not understand even after getting a BlueDriver scanner. I’m so happy I came across some of your videos. I get now. Thank you..
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 3 жыл бұрын
Great to hear!
@soyeldiego4878
@soyeldiego4878 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your informative video. I recently swapped engines on my 97 Camry 2.2 and immediately got a CEL for IAC P0505. Turns out the engine installed is a Federal and previous engine was California emission. Replaced with a Federal ECM and the CEL P0135 came on after a 5 mile test run. Next step to take is replace my California fuel sensor to Federal standard oxygen sensor. Pending change out, will post with results.
@juliojrsantos8760
@juliojrsantos8760 9 жыл бұрын
Great video amigo! I'm learning about these in auto class right now and I'm a big fan of the latest technology. Thanks for the tip about the manufacture specific service manuals.
@charlsseal7273
@charlsseal7273 8 жыл бұрын
Actually, your videos are very interesting and not boring at all. I would love to come to your shop and actually sit in for a lesson or 2. Awesome work!! So clear. Thank you.
@charlsseal7273
@charlsseal7273 3 жыл бұрын
Wow. I can’t believe it’s 4 year since I last watched this video!
@nadeemahmed640
@nadeemahmed640 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks sir appreciate your efforts.I am from Kuwait and i always watch your videos .
@user-pt5nx1np5t
@user-pt5nx1np5t 2 ай бұрын
I'm from Oman,, 10 years since this lecture was given by Matt and I'm still referring to it until now. Very scientific and rational speaking. Thank you Matt.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 ай бұрын
Thank you!!
@scientist100
@scientist100 9 жыл бұрын
There was one time I was looking at video about MAF and IAT functionality in a car. I saw a video from the suggested list titled how engines work. I clicked on it, I didn't finish the video because I had to go to a family gathering however when I came back I couldn't find your videos anymore and tried so hard until I finally came across to your video and subscribed. I have not watched all of you videos yet, but I'm really interested because of the way you explain real life problems that we encounter and how to properly diagnose and eliminate probably causes until the final solution is found. Thank you and keep up the good work.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Family gatherings always mess things up for me too.
@s0nnyburnett
@s0nnyburnett 4 жыл бұрын
Good stuff, easy to understand. Many thanks.
@ziaziaei5614
@ziaziaei5614 9 ай бұрын
You are so humble and I think you must be a Baha'i to be so good at your training. Thank you.
@Seeker887
@Seeker887 3 ай бұрын
Thank you for time spent. Appreciated, I’ll get this figured out yet. I bought a mid range scan tool $500usd . No regrets, I just have to learn what to look for. Bought it to help me with bank 2 s2 after replacing sensor, began throwing new codes. Stuck lean low voltage. Cleaned and switched sensors and the old one is at least modulating. Time will tell
@dare2look
@dare2look Жыл бұрын
Stoichiometry that was a new word for me. I looked it up to grasp it. What I interpreted. It is looking at the differences above and below baseline. Using those values to come up with a diagnostic picture.Am I looking at that right.I get what you are explaining. Very well in fact nice job. Just the vocabulary was getting me.
@BlakBawa
@BlakBawa Жыл бұрын
Greetings sir. I would like to thank you and commend you for the great work you do. the way you present the content makes it very easy to understand concepts that were difficult for me in school. Be blessed and all the best in all your work.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox Жыл бұрын
Many thanks! Very nice of you to take time to say that!
@eldareymundo2823
@eldareymundo2823 5 жыл бұрын
Great video... I'm learning a lot... Thanks
@thewhitescatpack8653
@thewhitescatpack8653 6 жыл бұрын
Great information and very educational! I am glad I discovered your video. I have subscribed to your channel. I look forward to watching more.
@gun4hire_albertsteury
@gun4hire_albertsteury 5 жыл бұрын
So after my last comment of your video, and subscribing, I was pleasantly amazed that you had many many videos on auto repair! So I have been watching them religiously, and I feel like I am becoming more and more like a mechanic. What I am trying to say is that when I go in to see an auto tech about a problem, the fact that I can explain what I am experiencing in auto jargon, and when I go in to pay the bill, the tech can explain to me what he found and I freaking understand what he is saying! It is so F%$#%$# awesome that I no longer experience anxiety, I don't start hyperventilating, etc. Anyways, you sir are an amazing teacher, and if you ever offered courses that I could take locally, I would find a way to go to them, even if I had to sell my wife, and the things that I loved. Thank you!! PS Don't worry, I already got rid of my wife a long time ago. :)
@jasonmcnamara2079
@jasonmcnamara2079 4 жыл бұрын
you're becoming more and more like an automotive diagnostician, not like a mechanic. No offence intended to mechanics.
@MrFavorito26
@MrFavorito26 8 жыл бұрын
thanks a lot I really learned a lot from you. thank you hope you continue making helpful videos like this .
@paulf1071
@paulf1071 5 жыл бұрын
Great information in this video. The real nitty-gritty starts at 7:33. I watched both Part 1 and Part 2. Kinda long, but well explained and with real-time graphs.
@GMAN420BC
@GMAN420BC 4 жыл бұрын
The nitty gritty is always at least 3 mins in. I use that time to roll my weed.
@derh.9201
@derh.9201 4 жыл бұрын
Miss the first 8 mins.
@dormantrabbits
@dormantrabbits 6 жыл бұрын
It ended on a cliffhanger! I learned so much from this video, thanks for sharing. I've been pulling my hair out diagnosing a P0420 code on my toyota and I was thinking the O2 sensor was bad but turns out its not even an O2 sensor at all.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 6 жыл бұрын
See my video on P0420 code diagnosis.
@carlodonnell146
@carlodonnell146 11 ай бұрын
I'll bet that as soon as you get the wide-band understanding by heart, they'll bring out something new and you'll be learning all over again.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 11 ай бұрын
Oh that’s a safe bet!!! It’s always like that. All the time. It never changes. Just when mechanics in the 90’s finally understood OBD1- OBD2 came out. And then CAN. I run into stuff all the time that I have never seen in my life before. Just a year ago I first discovered R123Y refrigerant systems when my R134a connectors just wouldn’t seem to work on a 2019 Denali. I had no idea what the issue was as I had no idea they changed systems and finally found out after researching it. It’s a constant evolution.
@milesghoover712
@milesghoover712 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the training and for using a subaru. I have a 2016 Subaru WRX which I think, reports the equivelance ratio as Lamda. I get very close to the same waveforms on my scan tool as you got on yours. Once again thanks for the training.
@mateusalves2595
@mateusalves2595 3 ай бұрын
Brow, I like the way you structure your thoughts. It helps a lot buddy. Congratulations on this awesome content, and thanks for sharing with us! As you, I also like to understand all the details of everything...LOL
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 3 ай бұрын
Good to hear!! Thanks for the comment.
@tekdhimal1023
@tekdhimal1023 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video, i hv learned heaps and it's actually helping in my diagnosis👊. Can u plz add Understanding of CAN BUS and diagnosis...?
@mycerebralcortex
@mycerebralcortex 9 жыл бұрын
Good stuff man thanks for sharing and keep up the great work!
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
mycerebralcortex Much appreciated!
@jeremycopsey5992
@jeremycopsey5992 10 жыл бұрын
This video was very helpful
@billyr9840
@billyr9840 9 жыл бұрын
Matt, Was just going through some of your older vids. Dude your humor is a class act. In this vid, you came out strong. Within the first minute, you say some of the people on the internet couldn't diagnose a diaper rash let alone a problem on a car. Or them people on the chat rooms couldn't fix a sandwich let alone a car! It is as funny as the first time I hear it. Besides the high quality train of thought, I know why I keep following! You are one twisted fella! LOL !
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Hahaha yeah not everyone gets it, that's for sure. Sometimes I say things and I don't even realize it until editing and I'm like "where did that come from? It"s brilliant!" lol!
@billyr9840
@billyr9840 9 жыл бұрын
Sure was brilliant, you want to see something funny? I am re-watching Test Your Lean Diagnostic Skills P0171/P0174 and watch how you went from pretty confidante in Part 1 to pretty Dam confused by, well only on Part 5. ( LOL ! )
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Billy R Hahahahaha yeah I know exactly what you mean- there is a dramatic change in demeanor ain't there lol!!! Man at first I thought this would just be a basic review of things I already showed and I just wanted to put a twist on it. Man, it totally didn't go as expected though! Probably should have humbled me but it didn't. Hell it brought Paul Danner to the channel- totally would go through this again!!
@billyr9840
@billyr9840 9 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box That's for sure it was great! Matter of fact it was so great, you had do a whole new set of vids, just to get your sanity back! You know, the P0171 Case Study from Hell ! ( LOL )
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Billy R Exactly!! Did you also notice that I went from teaching fuel trims in the first video to learning more than I have cumulatively in the last 7 years by the last video lol. That whole series was just awesome heh heh heh. Honestly the thing that really threw me- the Freeze Frame AND the scantool matched perfectly and BOTH were lying lol! Come on now, who is going to make that call right up front????
@cocinandolamecanica
@cocinandolamecanica 9 жыл бұрын
Good stuff Matt...
@mrexecutive1
@mrexecutive1 10 жыл бұрын
Great info, Thanks
@farido1000
@farido1000 9 жыл бұрын
Matt good job bro again
@hakimal-hilo9288
@hakimal-hilo9288 4 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for all u had done
@jeffreywilsonrubikscubeonb2428
@jeffreywilsonrubikscubeonb2428 10 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt..Im just commenting at about 3 minutes in to say thanks for the soda but I just opened a cold beer and am relaxing and looking forward to the rest of the vid. lol.
@mikemaloney4869
@mikemaloney4869 7 жыл бұрын
great class.watched it twice..
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 7 жыл бұрын
Me too lol
@sualpg4987
@sualpg4987 3 жыл бұрын
I am thankful to you.
@ovidiuautodiagnostics9049
@ovidiuautodiagnostics9049 2 жыл бұрын
You are the best.
@samikhazaal1927
@samikhazaal1927 4 жыл бұрын
you are the best!!!
@peacepeace8739
@peacepeace8739 7 жыл бұрын
Hi Mat I have watched every single video of yours and never got bored, In fact they are very educational and interesting. I have done my HND on automotive engineering. By watching your channel In past 2 months I have learnt way way more than what I learnt during the 2 yrs of the HND course. I really loved watching fuel trim videos. I hope you upload more videos of customers cars that has some kind of fault in it which was never fixed by the corner garages especially like the one that had exhaust restriction. Did she get really happy when you fixed the problem for her? Thanks
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks man, made my day!! Yes she was amazed for sure. They usually are. I never get bored of the reaction that some asshat DIY in his home garage fixes problems that multiple garages couldnt lol
@Yaaaahaaaaa
@Yaaaahaaaaa 3 жыл бұрын
ey bro. I came to youtube seeking copper and found this gold. good job
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome, thank you!
@usace69
@usace69 3 жыл бұрын
I love your class
@chiefeaglebear2320
@chiefeaglebear2320 9 жыл бұрын
the torque vectoring system would be neat to learn about and work on
@cbobcbob100
@cbobcbob100 10 жыл бұрын
thanks.....very good---hope the cheap harbor freight scanners will work on this by the time I have one to work on....thanks again...bob
@kent570253
@kent570253 7 жыл бұрын
Really good video. Your voice and the way you talk reminds me of Jello Biafra when he speaks.
@justynbumpus1070
@justynbumpus1070 9 жыл бұрын
this video is very interesting!
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Justyn Bumpus Yes the more I see widebands the more I have adapted to them- but it still like a foreign language for me. I still tend to "convert" to a reversed O2 sensor reference rather than just interpret the data directly. Old habits die very hard for me.
@davidgaleski5303
@davidgaleski5303 4 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU FOR HELP
@CHIBA280CRV
@CHIBA280CRV 4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic looking to test my afr on a 07 Honda CR-V 👍
@zc3nt1
@zc3nt1 Жыл бұрын
Love the videos. Thanks. Just a bit of info. When ever you go into WOT in a obd2 vehicle it goes into OPEN LOOP. You’ll still get readings but they are not inputs anymore they are solely a measuring device. Until WOT is disabled.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox Жыл бұрын
Yes that’s why I look for rich O2’s at WOT.
@ivetagabova5306
@ivetagabova5306 7 жыл бұрын
great , thank you man !
@FreeKanal
@FreeKanal 9 ай бұрын
So A/F wideband sensor is more like analog vs digital. Analog has fluid scale when O2 sensor is just on/off. By the way the way you explain things is the best i have seen on YT.
@user-lt4vq4bl8w
@user-lt4vq4bl8w 5 күн бұрын
Dan is the man....maaaan!
@SFrx7
@SFrx7 8 жыл бұрын
I'll put a new o2 thank you! Love your videos. Don't change that drawing board lol.
@zxtenn
@zxtenn 7 жыл бұрын
I have a 1996 Jeep GC with the 5.2 V-8, I had a problem about mid temp warm-up [about 150] on temp gauge check engine light, when I upgraded/changed to the Bosch Wide Band haven't had 1 problem in at least 5 years, I did a lot of reading prior to installing
@derrickmorgan6848
@derrickmorgan6848 4 жыл бұрын
Good info
@nandanalal5072
@nandanalal5072 7 ай бұрын
Thanks
@testuser3167
@testuser3167 6 ай бұрын
There seem to be times more often of late, I'm finding that at least for some cases, I should have been or should become a "Parts Changer"... Most recently, I found a vacuum leak on the intake manifold of an old Cadillac Northstar engine. I bought and replaced that gasket set, which did improve the performance BUT the fuel trims were still heavily pointing to a vacuum leak... Further testing showed that the PCV foul air hose connector at the manifold is leaking too! This part is listed at the same place I bought the intake gaskets from, and it's only $8.36... I saw that when I bought the intake gaskets, but I hadn't proven it to be bad then, but now that I need 1, I'll have to pay more in shipping than the parts cost, & had I just bought it with the gaskets, I'd have saved the extra shipping costs. Lesson learned is sometimes it's OK to change parts - especially if they are cheap and the old parts are 17+ years old!
@fivefortyeye540i
@fivefortyeye540i 10 жыл бұрын
Dam good tutorial well explained.. You remind me of a scannerdaner.. You think you can explain other automotive systems in this manner? Like evap, egr. Abs, to name a few ,incase u run out of ideas. Subscribed
@689452379
@689452379 8 жыл бұрын
Yes that's where they're going with this. Broad band just makes sense. Gives the PCM more information to work with. The old sensors were too slow and didn't "see" as much. And also couldn't respond as quickly over all engine operating conditions. The key to knowing what the engine is doing is what's coming out the exhaust.
@rugbymillzvlogs
@rugbymillzvlogs 4 жыл бұрын
good video
@humidbeing
@humidbeing 9 жыл бұрын
Rear oxygen sensors (or air/fuel sensors) are also used to adjust fuel trims. It's called fore aft oxygen sensor control (FAOSC). When everything is working fine, in normal driving, the rears provide little correction: GM material says less than 1.0% Ford says 0.5% Toyota says 2.0% But when something is wrong you can see up to 30% correction in fuel trim from the rear O2S in abnormal conditions. It's a weighted correction. So you won't see it instantly on a scan tool. You need access to vendor specific ecu data to see the stored value.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Chad Ross I was unaware of this and I looked into it and you are indeed correct! Thanks!
@billyr9840
@billyr9840 9 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box Matt, To back up what Chad Ross is saying I'm going to throw my two cents in. In Chryslers there is what they call Upstream O2 Goal Voltage ( which operates on the same principles as other manufactures) the .450 mv switch point between rich and lean. While the upstream O2 input is used to maintain 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio, variations in the engine, exhaust system, and the catalytic converter, due to aging can cause this ratio to be less than ideal for a given vehicle. If the gases leaving the catalytic converter are to lean the PCM will raise the upstream Goal voltage to richen the mixture. If it is to rich leaving the converter it will lower the upstream Goal voltage to lean the gases coming out of the converter. As you would expect this function is only active if the down stream O2s are in closed loop.
@rochestertommy9995
@rochestertommy9995 2 жыл бұрын
I use his fuel trim videos for training at my shop.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!! i know there are also some tech schools that use it in their curriculum. definitely the most important video on the whole channel.
@lowbuckfabrication
@lowbuckfabrication 9 жыл бұрын
Schroeder you are the spitting image of all my instructors when i went to uti(honorstudent/grad) its soo funny how they/you we're spot on about auto zone Parts changers that blame computers when they're first guess didnt work and how you should run heavier weight oil after 100k....i got a question though...how much of a "learned drive cycle"does my obd1 toyota 22re have ?how smart were obd1 s? My yota has a very faint hunting idle. Ive been to the very bottom of my fullest drawer. Many times with this truck it was neglected badly when i bought it i pulled the head and took it to the old machinist dude at carquest who makes you apreciate what craftsmanship is all about ive gone through every fuel and emission system on this thing its starting to run like a yota again but even the fsm and other books arent this in depth ..thoughts?
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
lowbuckfabrication I have no idea why you would be interested in a learned drive cycle for a hunting idle- that would be a perpetual short term trim adjustment not long term- you probably should start with cleaning the throttle body especially around the IAC. But to answer your question, OBD's used much of the same long term fuel adjustment strategy as OBD2 but on a much more basic level with far less variables accounted for. But OBD1 absolutely adjusts short term trim and banks it as a LTFT reference. That said, reading the trim is totally different. OBD1 uses a binary system where 0 is lean and 256 is rich, with stoich being at of course 128. Short term is called "Integrator" and long term is "block learn". Block learn adjustment is still done through integrator feedback and sets the fuel trim to maintain integrator to be at 128. See my video "Diagnosis and Understanding: Adaptive fuel learn strategy" for more detail.
@skywatcher5978
@skywatcher5978 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I,m stumped on a 2008 Suburu DTC P2097. Live frame readouts for O2 sensor #1 is 2.355 volts and sencor #2 is .765 volts at idle. . P2097 is rich post catylitic fuel trim. STFT is 3.9 percent and LTFT is 7.0 percent. MAP is 4.0 and MAF is .01. I,m missing something , old school carburator guy.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 4 жыл бұрын
You can’t determine anything from that data sorry. You’re only measuring one time point.
@skywatcher5978
@skywatcher5978 4 жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox I'm an old diesel mechanic trying to not be a whishfull thinking parts changer on my 08 Suburu 2.5 boxer. Freeze frame at DTC P2097 setting code ( partial info) : Closed loop, Load 51 percent, RPM 1640, Road speed 25 mph, STFT Neg. 3.9 percent, LTFT 10.9 percent, Evap vapor pressure .019 inH2o, MAF 0.0, MAP 1.3 psi, O2 sensor #2- 0.740 volt, O2 sensor #1- ?, And strangely, Engine coolant temp 365 Deg. , Intake air temp 172 Deg. After code set was viewing live frame data and ECT and IAT were reading as normal . So my ECM read zero air intake, coolant temp at meltdown temp, intake air temp at 172 degrees on a winter day, and Short term fuel trim attempting a rich reduction at Neg 3.9 percent. Red flag for me is ECT and IAT readings, however , I can't figure why errant high temp and zero intake at MAF readings would trigger a rich condition. downstream of cat. Could an intermittantly faulty down stream O2 sensor trick the ECM into an instantaneous brain fart ? Live framing at idle O2 sencor # 1 is fluctuating around 2.355 volts and O2 sencor # 2 is slightly fluctuating around .765 volts . Wish you had a shop here in PA.
@fredmotz7095
@fredmotz7095 Жыл бұрын
thanks
@metalmaniac375
@metalmaniac375 9 жыл бұрын
I was always told that the downstream sensor does not affect fuel trims or mileage and that is Not true! The first purpose of the downstream 02 sensor is to measure cat efficiency. The second function is downstream fuel control. This function adjusts the upstream 02 goal voltage within the range of operation of the upstream sensor. The upstream goal voltage is used to ensure long cat life by allowing the PCM to control the amount of air and fuel that is supplied to the cat. If the downstream 02 sensor switch point is at a low voltage the PCM will adjust the upstream 02 goal voltage to reduce high 02 content by . If the downstream 02 sensor switch points stays high, the upstream 02 sensor goal voltage will change and allow a low 02 content. My downstream was fixed in the rich position and the fuel trims were pulling back like 25 percent and no codes being set. Shade tree in training attempting to graduate parts changing status! Great videos here! Show less
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Yes you are correct. (I also thought the same even as late as the time I made this video!). The fuel trim adjustment from rear sensor I believe is not in all models and mostly started in later years but indeed I have seen in some service manuals where they indicate trim from data from rear O2. Great post bro.
@metalmaniac375
@metalmaniac375 9 жыл бұрын
Ty Bro... I had several so-called ASE certified mechanics tell me that it did not effect fuel trims; Apparently they need to go back to school or check out your channel here! Take care...
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Metal Maniac Yeah in all fairness a year ago I would have said the same. The concept of the rear O2 contributing to fuel trim is new but I agree- my job is not to keep up with that. A actual mechanic has the responsibility to so I agree with you- they should go back to school!!
@metalmaniac375
@metalmaniac375 9 жыл бұрын
LOL yes they really need to go back to school. Ironically, I first discovered the information in a tome entitled Haynes Techbook: OBD-II & Electronic Engine Management Systems. It was also a great primer before taking on more advanced theory on this channel. I hate the Haynes manuals too and that was the only useful/informative one I ever checked out. I am now using the Service Manuals due to mention of them on your channel... Thanks for all the great vids and comments Bro!
@josephmanane6533
@josephmanane6533 6 жыл бұрын
This is often called the 'target upstream fuel-trim' or 'target air-fuel ratio' and is displayed in scan tools.
@MinxInSinx
@MinxInSinx 2 жыл бұрын
You're getting more comfortable > as I sit in my recliner on my front patio 🤣
@IamReadyToRock
@IamReadyToRock 2 жыл бұрын
from Peru 👍👍👍
@ItsJusGeral
@ItsJusGeral Жыл бұрын
🔥
@EdwinTata-rx5zk
@EdwinTata-rx5zk Ай бұрын
I love you videos
@spelunkerd
@spelunkerd 10 жыл бұрын
Do the wideband A/F sensors make their own current, or do they require a baseline 5V input to work? Do they compare A/F ratios inside the exhaust vs the ambient air outside?
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 10 жыл бұрын
Spelunkerd, good questions and I didn't cover them in the video. Yes the AFR sensor (yet another name for them) generates its current. But as far as the comparison to ambient atmosphere, none of the articles mentioned that either with the AFR or the O2 sensor for that matter! Maybe someone here knows but thats a great question- indeed one of the things that can affect and O2 sensor is a plugging up of the ambient air "vent hole" or whatever you call it.
@jarrodbarto4895
@jarrodbarto4895 10 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box there has to be proper calibration of any wideband. normally a wideband is left to heat up for a few hours untouched outside connecting it into a bung. the longer it has to baseline the ambient air, the more accurate the calibration.
@gojudude
@gojudude 10 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box The answer is no, they, nor the simple O2, compares to ambient air. In the presence of equivalent oxygen content on both the exhaust and ambient sides of the sensor element the voltage output will be 0 volts.The reason covering up the hole on the old O2's effected it is because that's where it get's it O2 to burn the HC's off the thimble. It more closely resembles a catalyst than anything else.On heated 3 and 4 wire O2's, it doesn't have a hole, and it gets it's O2 ions through the wire from the PCM. That's why we don't soldier those wires and we don't put dielectric grease in the connectors.
@immortal4942
@immortal4942 9 жыл бұрын
my o2 sensor behind the cat reports lean mixture or below 0.45v. this causes my car to go really rich and the wideband and factory AF sesnor reports ~13.9 AFR at idle. my fuel trims are +/- 2%. I haven't found an exhaust leak and the catalyst doesn't rattle or anything. is the rear o2 sensor bad? the voltage reported is not flat line, but its nearly flat at 0.1v. revving the engine hard does bring it up to 0.7v momentarily but it goes back to really low voltage at idle even with this rich condition.
@vidurav
@vidurav 6 жыл бұрын
hi.. I checked the part number. It is the same. I also removed the sensor and checked ecu OX pin voltage (open circuit). Still the same voltage 2.3 v showed. may i know whether it is a normal bias voltage? this voltage is coming from ecu and ecu circuit shows OX pin connected to ecu resister then geounded inside ecu. between ecu resister inside and ox pin voltage comparator.
@emre2blue
@emre2blue 6 жыл бұрын
Hi I want to ask a question about O2% sensors and how to get ARF values from it. I have Innovate LC-2 sensor driver. And It only shows me O2% And I want to read AFR from it. Do you know anything about the formula or conversation about it ?
@jerrypeal653
@jerrypeal653 4 жыл бұрын
Looks like a sign wave on a scope above center line is positive and below center line or zero is negative and reading amplitude .
@breezyacresfarm
@breezyacresfarm 9 жыл бұрын
I just found your channel. It's awesome information. Way better than asking for help on a forum. I would love to see a video on how to diagnose a bad O2 sensor that is after the converter. From what I understand is that the waveform of the sensor after the cat looks a lot different from the waveform of the o2 sensor before the cat. Reason being that the cat has corrected alot of the exaust gases. I know that if the waveform of both sensors look the same that the cat is probably bad, but how do you know if the o2 sensor after the cat is bad?
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
See my video P0420/P0430 diagnosis which explains O2 waveforms relative to catalytic converter
@Nirvana_key_lab
@Nirvana_key_lab Жыл бұрын
Matt, as much as I love to think test before i replace anything, i am stuck on this 07 Infiniti M35. Friend drove down the road and huge loss of power. Scanned it and ONLY P0300 with no specific cylinders. Frend took it to a nearby shop from the breakdown point. Spark plugs were bad (never replace at 170000mi) so they said "well, spark plugs need replaced anyway lol" & they dollow through with non-oem plugs as well as an intake boot. Still misfiring with burning hot exhaust. This shop sents him to a muffler shop & the original cats are cut but... same oucome. Hum Car comes to me. Scan it with my Autel scantool & noticed the fuel trim on bank 2 is quite high. I decided to go further & use the Power Balance feature to disable each cylinder at a time & quickly notice that Cylinder 2,4 & 6 cause no disturbance thus bank2 is where my issue is. Not wanting to switch parts over and over, I decide to start with compression test to eliminate internal engine/timing issue from my check list. Compression checks out okay. Spark plugs being non-oem, lets install what it is supposed to come with. Tested ignition spark with a spatk tester and got strong consistent spark at all 6 cylinders. LtFT is at 9.7% on bank2 and bank1 Stft is at 25% on bank2 but at 4% on bank1. Idling speed is 1000rpm at all time MaF reads quite high at 7.7g/s Increasing rpm to 2000-3000 rpm put the LTFT bank2 at 0% which makes me think of a vaccum leak. I almost washed bank2 with carb cleaner in vain then sprayed everywhere on the intake with the same outcome. Propane => same thing ughr Smokepro I purchased after watching your video on it, no leak whatsoever on the intake. Removed the upper and lower intake plenum last night to get to the injectors in order to check injector pulses with my noid lights. Positive injector pulses at all bank2 injectors. Tomorrow, i plan to check spraying patterns. At this point im checking everything....
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox Жыл бұрын
Sounds like potential timing issue to me.
@Nirvana_key_lab
@Nirvana_key_lab Жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox wow. I hope not. can a timing gun confirm or infirm this? If injectors is not the issue, id swap o2 sensors side to see if the issue will move and lastly test the PCM. I researched the P0300 in Alldata amd the diagnostic started with making sure the PCM is okay
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox Жыл бұрын
You can try it but based on the data you gave, there is no evidence for a bad O2 sensor. If there was, how can the LTFT be normal under load? It’s impossible unless the STFT pulled it down which means O2 sensor had to respond. Yes you can do a timing light however remember you may have timing off on only one bank so don’t coordinate it to cylinder number one only.
@Nirvana_key_lab
@Nirvana_key_lab Жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox you b are absolutely right. Regarding the sensors, things are getting so bizzare that I want to double everything
@Nirvana_key_lab
@Nirvana_key_lab Жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox i have a timing gun although I never got to use it. May be it is time for it.
@salemogla1495
@salemogla1495 7 жыл бұрын
first of all thanks for every thing you present it's amusing and i have question why diagram of air fuel ratio sensor is opposite of the diagram of O2 sensor i mean the richness in O2 sensor is up but in A/F ratio sensor is down
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, since the voltage is actually arbitrary there is no need for it to be inverse of actual O2 sensor voltage. I do not know the reason for this other than I suspect it is to simply differentiate from O2 sensor reading so the technician pays attention more or something. There isn't any reason the interpreted data would from an A/F must be incongruent with an O2 sensor voltage interpretation.
@supermarketsweeps
@supermarketsweeps 10 жыл бұрын
hi yes its different here in uk , they lowered emission but our roads are full of cars between 10 and 20 years old which at the time past emission with no problem , now they are just on the limits, there is nothing wrong with them .its their age that is killing them , my newest car is 10 years old my oldest is 20 years old , so emission days is doing everything oil change, air filter , clean air flow meter , check lamba sensors are switching , then cross your fingers
@Yamatoikiski
@Yamatoikiski 9 жыл бұрын
Hey man great video, love your stuff (except the subie bashing, maybe try a wrx sti?) Anyway I got a random flat spot at like 0v in the o2 sensor a couple times for about 20 seconds straight around 2500 rpm. The LTFT was around 4 and the short term was at about 1 when it happened. Other than that, the o2 sensor was oscillating fine at .1 to .9, any thoughts from you or anyone as to what happened? My software is pretty crappy, but didn't show anything out of the ordinary on 2 other cars
@sonalikangralkar1996
@sonalikangralkar1996 4 жыл бұрын
Is the downstream O2 sensor said to be working fine if it has constant value at around 0.7 or 0.8 volts? also does this mean the catalytic converter efficiency is good?
@joeysanchez5926
@joeysanchez5926 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the soda.
@alandorton5531
@alandorton5531 9 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt, enjoy your videos. I was a Ca. Lic. smog Tech for 25 years. Worked at indie shops and Nissan for 8 years. My college teacher gave me a great way to think about O2 sensors. Voltage is the potential difference in electrons. So a O2 sensor measures the potential difference between inside exhaust Oxygen and outside ambient Oxygen. So, Lean cond = more O2 in exhaust, and when compared to outside O2, it has a low difference (or potential) therefore low voltage. Thus, rich cond.= low O2 levels in exhaust and when compared to outside O2- bigger difference, higher voltage. Just wanted to clear that up. Oxygen sensor only measures Oxygen. BTW, my hobby is Quantum Mechanics too. At Nissan, we were told to look at .001 voltage fluctuations for a/f sensors, a long way from mV. Also same college teacher had us looking at O2 sensor crosscounts to see if O2 was biased one way or other. Good Luck, Alan.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
ALAN DORTON Thanks Alan. You explanation is my understanding of the operation as well (Nernst theory).
@mareksumguy1887
@mareksumguy1887 9 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box You really need to get with the program and stop calling them O2 and AF sensor. Its NARROW BAND and WIDE BAND sensors!. They are *both* "O2" sensors.
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Marek Sumguy Ummm no- because when you understand them Marek, you realize that AFR is a perfectly accurate differentiating term because it is capable of measuring AMPLITUDE of the proportions unlike an O2 sensor. It is a matter of comprehension, not mere nomenclature my friend.
@mareksumguy1887
@mareksumguy1887 9 жыл бұрын
Schrodingers Box Wow... i can't believe YOU just said that!. Are you trying to tell me that an "AFR sensor" doesn't deduce the AFR by the level of O2 in the exhaust gas??
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 9 жыл бұрын
Marek Sumguy It measures the AMPLITUDE of O2 to HC. That is why it is wideband- it covers a range of amplitude for variance in the ratio. An O2 sensor is only able to determine variance from stoich. Therefore, AFR sensor is a valid description to differentiate it
@m.b.smoshitoa8325
@m.b.smoshitoa8325 2 жыл бұрын
A/f wideband vs o2 sensor. In other words do you mean wideband vs narrowband o2 sensor. I am not machanic but I am addicted to your videos. I watch them time and again because I want to grasp the concept Moshitoa from south Africa
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 жыл бұрын
correct. a/f sensors are wideband and traditional O2 sensors are narrow band. this means an O2 sensor either detect rich or lean while a A/F can tell how much it is rich or lean.
@m.b.smoshitoa8325
@m.b.smoshitoa8325 2 жыл бұрын
@@SchrodingersBox thanks Matt, but how do you tell whether the o2 installed is wide or narrowband on a car
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 2 жыл бұрын
hey sorry man I just saw this. so actually you can’t tell by looking at the sensor directly. you either have to know ahead of time which cars use O2 vs A/F or you have to look at the voltage pattern on a scan tool (which is how I usually do it).
@FastEddie368
@FastEddie368 9 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matt! Good information here! Mmmm in fo maaaa tion Mmmmmmm.
@edreiss3637
@edreiss3637 4 жыл бұрын
God bless you. I think you have been collecting all of those manuals so I can restore old cars. I'm pretty sure that was gods plan
@edreiss3637
@edreiss3637 4 жыл бұрын
Please try to contact me and send me your email address
@edreiss3637
@edreiss3637 4 жыл бұрын
Im not kidding I think we should teach young kids our God given skills so they can produce more for the future.
@edreiss3637
@edreiss3637 4 жыл бұрын
It's Evolution
@edreiss3637
@edreiss3637 4 жыл бұрын
Darwin taught us that
@SchrodingersBox
@SchrodingersBox 4 жыл бұрын
Confusing comment but thanks lol.
@255Vicks
@255Vicks 4 жыл бұрын
To answer your question regarding expensive DVM's, it's not necessarily the precision of the DVM as much as its ability to handle power. They are primarily meant for electrical work, not electronics as in this application. The expensive ones (i.e. Fluke) are typically used on high voltage circuits. The power racks for the equipment I work on can be anywhere between 208V to 480V operating on 600A contactors. The facilities electricians work at even higher voltages and powers. There are occasions where live electrical troubleshooting is required and the DVM's that we use have to be rated for it. Test leads also tend to run expensive as well as they also have to be rated for the power that you are measuring. This means that you are paying for the ability to handle power and not necessarily getting a more accurate reading. Additionally, to measure current, you will either need a clamp meter or the test leads will have to be in series with the circuit (more accurate than a clamp probe), not easy to do in most situations.
Secret of Engine Problem Diagnosis- Fuel Trims Pt.2
23:24
Schrodingers Box
Рет қаралды 637 М.
Air/Fuel Sensors (Wideband Oxygen Sensors) vs O2 Sensors- PART 2
22:43
Schrodingers Box
Рет қаралды 136 М.
Khó thế mà cũng làm được || How did the police do that? #shorts
01:00
MEGA BOXES ARE BACK!!!
08:53
Brawl Stars
Рет қаралды 35 МЛН
Understanding the basics about fuel trims
23:43
Hands On Auto Training
Рет қаралды 96 М.
Oxygen Sensor Narrowband & Wideband Diagnostic Differences   HD 1080p
9:12
realfixesrealfast
Рет қаралды 52 М.
Don't Buy Oxygen Sensors! How to test o2 sensor
8:47
JeepSolid
Рет қаралды 1,8 МЛН
Wideband O2 sensors, Narrowband O2 sensors and Fuel trim.
13:53
DiagnoseDan
Рет қаралды 272 М.
Test Your Lean Condition P0171 / P0174 Diagnostic Skills!
23:50
Schrodingers Box
Рет қаралды 195 М.
P0420 P0430 catalytic converter catalyst inefficiency code diagnosis
8:23
Simple Fuel Trims Explanation  (STFT and LTFT)
13:31
Colin Chilibeck
Рет қаралды 54 М.
Air Fuel Sensors versus Oxygen Sensors
6:54
Garage Gurus
Рет қаралды 53 М.
metallic body HULNA excavator truck
0:13
Excavator Technology
Рет қаралды 10 МЛН
РЕМОНТ ДОРОГ В ШВЕЙЦАРИИ
0:17
В ТРЕНДЕ
Рет қаралды 6 МЛН