Mike has been the commentator for so long I forget Casen has access to the channel as well

I’m grateful for the section of the internet where we can talk about these things

Came for Max, subbed and stayed for the Xenogears deep dive.

Even if you are just treating it as filler, I appreciate you guys taking the risk to try something different. These "off-topic" episodes have been some of my favorite to listen to in a very long time.

This so jumpscared me. Been watching Mike and Kasin for years and Max recently so this was a dream match. For Max, I literally followed your "How to become an alchemist" video outside of the last book, as I started reading a novel and realized I needed alchemical knowledge for the lore and magic system. On the way I read other books, like The Initiates of Fire and The Rosicrucian s by McIntosh. I've made my footnotes and I'm currently working on the novel outline now. Just like Fear and Hunger, you were a PIVOTAL point to this story actually existing. Does numbers or not, you're getting name dropped. Thank you both for this, had a smile on my face the entire time

Well that hour flew by. Great conversation guys! Really enjoyed this episode.

Would love to see a collab with Majuular someday. Also…title idea for these segments: Casen’s Corner. …no? Alright, then.

Incredible conversation guys. I would love to see more stuff like this from Casen and guests like Max!

ahh, if you guys did more episodes of Xenogears I would eat that up; I am always hungry for more Xenogears analysis. It almost feels like you could never run out of things to talk about or analyze when it comes to that game. I've recently started paying a lot more attention to pre-release information and how the story was initially going to play out. Learned recently that the animated cutscene of Grahf, Khan, and Id was originally meant to not be a dream that Fei has on the sand cruiser after meeting Grahf, but a hallucination he has on the mountain while going back to Lahan from Citan's house before Grahf even appears in Lahan; that's why its stormy, why Fei appears in the cutscene and looks over at them as if these glowing figures caught his eye- it wasnt intended to be a pov dream sequence. And they put that in the final build of the game, largely unedited- the old Famitsu magazine says something like "while walking back from Citan's house, lightning flashes and Fei sees a hallucination on the mountain path". The only thing being it was cut short and we only have two screenshots of an extended version of the scene of Grahf and Khan supposedly fighting. This also means it would've originally played before that other animated cutscene that plays when Grahf first appears outside his Gear in front of the moon, where Fei says "Who're you? Wait, I know you" and the camera shows Grahf's helmet again, swiveling around it just like in the other animated scene- he saw him in his hallucination. (of course, he says this right before he would've surprised the players by saying Id's thoughts aloud "you killed her. her?") Anyway, Im getting carried away. I just found that all fascinating, coming across all this information and putting the pieces together. No doubt its all old news for Japanese fans who read the famitsu pages, but for western fans Ive never heard anyone point this out. (there's actually more I discovered about the animated cutscenes from those famitsu ads, but I wont continue blabbing here, go to Xenogears' category on the Godsibb forum for the rest :P)

I really appreciated this episode and discussion. Thanks for putting it up! In general, I think this could be a great model for future guests, it lets us in the audience get more exposure and understanding of them outside of the original topic and lets us contextualize their perspective and contributions more. I really enjoyed hearing about Max’s background.

Love seeing some more casual conversations from Casen's side with pdocast guests. Really looking forward to listening to this again during a closing shift tonight. Keep up the great work!

As a huge fan of Friedrich Nietzsche and Carl Jung, I totally second what Max here said about Shin Megami Tensei! Not just Nocturne, but I think games such as Strange Journey and SMT2 would be totally be up both channels’s alley. Loved this conversation-it was such a great meeting between the minds.

great talk, felt the brotherly love. like a modern day meeting of Nietzsche and Ralph Waldo Emmerson or something. also, I think i really do have to actually play Outer Wilds now then, oops!

Iain McGilchrist was someone I segued into almost directly after Jung, and I have absolutely loved his work.

It’s really interesting to see this interviewer side of Kayson! It’s always delightful to see people in different environments. Even though this and game analysis are both performed in the media of a KZfaq podcast-it’s a different stage. Seeing you as a interviewer, asking questions with genuine curiosity is really neat. As always love the content no matter the form it takes, since the essence will always be the same.

The interesting thing about "spoilers" for older stories, maybe specifically books. At a point everyone entering or discovering the conversation has to do it for a first time.

I love Max's videos, but him just talking freely and unscripted is truly just as good. I would be just as inclined to watch him just talk off the top of his head as I am his videos that he writes scripts for.

Having Max in your podcasts is so amazing!

Loved having Casen host !

Oh don't worry I been watching Max for a few years now. Found him through his famous MGS2 video, and stayed for all the good spiritual stuff. Very educational for me. I don't believe in an Intercessor. I'm closer to the gnostic idea of the Monad and the whole Collective Unconscious idea. As in, as much as I understand them anyway. I'm smart enough to know I'll never know enough. Better to allow breathing room for your beliefs and ideas to evolve. Being tied down to a belief SYSTEM just seems a bit . . . dull.

A Casen episode, haven't got one of those before. Nice!

28:15 I agree, Cloud and Barret were clearly meant to be together.

Just the other day I was lamenting how unlikely it is that Mike and casen would cover Digital Devil Saga.... But now there's a glimmer of hope.

Man, I have so much I'd like to say, but a comment to a video just isn't enough. I'd actually want to be a part of the conversation. There were so many points, and as I listened, this thing popped into my head or that thing popped into my head! It's crazy! 😂

Great video and content brother. Love it. Liking as saving this to watch it again later.

Such an awesome conversation.

Woooooo! At least we have confirmation Max will be on the MGS2 podcast this year lol

Stay yellow, friends.

Max must really be liked. I just found him recently, he makes good content.

Awesome chat guys, been watching Max for awhile, it was neat to hear him talk a bit more candidly about different topics.

Catholic here, and i loved the conversation, it's always interesting to see different perspectives of how you define God or the concept of.

The red book libre novus is the first book ive ever read that I actually felt like I may not be smart enough to read it lol. All i can say is im glad I got sent down the study path i did after I first saw your xenogears series and starting learning about Gnosticism and psychology or i would have been completely lost reading jung

God damn this episode was fantastic. I think Max might be the guest that best meshes with Casen than anyone else they’ve had on the podcast before.

Great discussion!

Xenogears is NEVER done.

I'm glad I beat my head against the convoluted Jungian wall back in the late '90s after finishing my first playthrough of Xenogears. It's given me an inoculation against certain culture-warrior hacks such as Jordan Peterson who I think exploits the mythos and philosophy in service of reactionary politics. I'm partial to the other Carl's (Sagan) critique of religion as "dangerous evolutionary baggage." Perhaps vital to the survival and cohesiveness of early human culture and civilization, but its harms in the modern era become more apparent through the lens of empiricism. I wouldn't go as far as to apply Alder's razor to all aspects of philosophy, but it has lead me to places such as metaethics like moral anti-realism.

I loved this

Best anime crossover

This was great. 👍

I went through Max's series on Fullmetal Alchemist, and it was great stuff!

It really helps to be into the occult and esoteric books to get the most out of jung. I wonder how much Crowley he read.

Let's set the record straight.... Spoilers are totally fine (and welcomed) as long as there is at least a verbal warning and preferably a time stamp. Like Casen said you literally can't talk about anything interesting without spoilers to some book or game or some such.

how is this not 5 hours lol thanks guys

Cool crossover

Nice vid

Would love to see your guys thoughts on berserk (1997)

Fun stuff, great content as always. You guys should play Chained Echoes 10/10.

MAX IS AWESOME! I'm so happy I found his channel.

Casen, if you have your own channel, I'd love to hear your additional thoughts on Xenogears. You can always give your own thoughts on your own, without Mike, though I appreciate hearing both of your thoughts together. :)

Wow, hello there, Clancy Brown! :D (sorry lol)

Concerning spoilership of old media: personally I think we should always allow the next generation to discover things on their own schedule. Doesn't matter if it came out one or one hundred years ago: discovering a story for yourself should be a universal right. For example, there's a plot twist in _Final Fantasy VII_ where you-know-what happens to you-know-who. In light of the remakes coming out, I would impose a code of silence on this twist, despite the fact that the OG game is almost three decades old. That said, when a plot twist is so well-known that it's essentially identical with the story it's framed in (Star Wars, Darth Vader being Luke's father), we can make an exception to this rule.

Havent watched this video yet but I already know this will be a banger

Awesome discussion. Thank you for the podcast!

Man what an amazing episode, this channel is a gem

So this is what it's like when worlds collide!

I've not listened to the podcast as much as when it was a Q&A/news topics thing because either I haven't played specific games, don't have the time for the anthology format, or have sometimes felt like the analysis--while good--jumps to some conclusions that I don't think the creators were on the same wavelength as. That said, this was great and in my opinion more like this is the most palatable way for at least me (curious if others) to engage with your philosophical approach to analysis. Also just not the type of conversation that comes across my feeds often. Anyway, dug it.

My god that eas me in highschool as well! Homework heavy class gettin out with a D baby i had vidja games to play

With Nojima even admitting he has been reading Carl Jung, which could explain what is going on in FF7 rebirth (his words) ... you should look it up- gaming doesnt just owe him Persona!

Absolutely phenomenal, the both of you. Thank you both so much for your time and efforts. I feel enriched.

I do love how the FFVII (Re) sub-series is That Which Must Not Be Named on this channel… poor Mike, getting harassed for having a noted dissenting opinion. I say that as someone who *does* mostly consider it a net positive; not unilaterally, the 5-10% that bothers me genuinely feels obtrusive, just that it doesn’t take away the remaining 90-95%… But, I digress.

is this the guy that makes dozens of jordan peterson videos lol

What car is that. I like the interior.

Is he streaming his tactics play through?? That's something I'd love to watch. Excellent discussion by the way, though bits of it were way over my head.

46:50 sounds like you guys just have to kill the golden goose. Honestly I also never understood the reverence for FF VII, it's still a very similar story to earlier FF games but now in 3D. Even its big impactful moment I feel Suikoden did better on that console 2 years earlier.

He's a little guy.

Astrology for men (I'm men)

ummm.... what happened to Mike? Just wondering

I wish you could hang out IRL. Even when your wife maybe won't appreciate. :p

Now you guys need Ragnar Rox, Plague of Gripes for the ultimate cross over with Max

Dude, this is badass! I didn't think I would ever see something like this on this channel, but it's very welcome.