​ @PiotrHo4 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f5eKdteA1rzPnqc.html illetve kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mLiYh5aLnbrLomQ.html vagy kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pdFdl8iptt7KfKs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bq2ehat5v5eUcmg.html Atilla szablyája (atilla sabre) in austria kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ZsWqgJyBt7KbY30.html

+Robert R Haha. True.

+Robert R Ah, did you find this channel from Scholagladiatoria as well? :D

Robert R yep!

Hard comparing to what? All weapons are hard to master :)

Great find!

13BRAVO REDLEG awesome

Lucky, XD

Cool shit. Once in a lifetime.

NICE!!

McBobbish rapiers are kinda hot😳

damn curves

Yes and in second place goes to the Messer sword.

+Timothy Heimbach Apart from the spadroon :-)

+Academy of Historical Fencing Has it ever been a good year for a spadroon :)

+Exploatores Late 19th century France?

Straight facts.

Chinese cavalry used Miao Dao for centuries, which are much longer. The shorter broad sword that u are referring to were used by foot soldiers in conjunction w a shield

While the average Asian person was technically smaller than average Europeans, they weren't that much smaller because most Europeans were pretty small throughout most of their history too. Even so, I don't think Asian people were/are so much smaller that it would make them need significantly smaller swords. Keep in mind that most people, Asian and European, were not using swords as their primary weapons. Most people used either ranged weapons or some kind of polearm. In fact, as someone mentioned, many Chinese and Mongolian swords were fucking HUGE and heavy af...

Actually they typically were. There are some good statistics on the Japanese for example, who didn't really begin to close the gap with Europeans and Americans until the second half of the 20th century. Look to about 1600 for example and the average Japanese male was around 5 foot to 5'1" tall. When the average European was 5'6-5'8". That difference is very substantial. Countless documents and manuals from around the world have documented how sword size should be made in relation to the user. Now of course how they scale to the user varies depending on the culture, the master etc. But if you wanted to take on example, a common method of recommending rapier blade length is that the pommel should reach the armpit when the sword is stood upright, and that would lead to a massive variation due to human height. Yes there are some massive Chinese swords like the Miaodao, but you need to compare like for like. The equivalent large European two handers were far larger again.

Academy of Historical Fencing Idk if Japanese people get to be the standard "Asian". They were smaller than say, Mongolians or Northern Chinese who were closer to the size of Europeans. But then again, European sizes differed just as much as Asians, so idk lol And yeah, everyone had a version of the BIG ASS SWORD. Even Japan had their version lol

The Mongols used heavy cavalry to great effect with smaller horses, even against Western armies and fully kitted knights with their massive chargers.

Excellent, another convert!

Well I had been interested in doing some sabre training for a while so I suppose it was just a matter of time.

Hungarian from Ural mountains

So we have a very early history in the Ural mountains but around 3 thousand years ago we moved a few kms west and suddenly were in Europe. After this we migrated westward and in the late 9th century we settled in the Carpathian basin. Before that the Pannonian avars lived there, and the earliest find of the sabre is ~680 AD, but Greek sources mention them earlier, in the 5th century (earliest mention) and in later sources (8-9th century) complain about the semitic people stealing their weapon designs. The sabre as a design is likely to be either Byzantine or Persian but straight swords were prevalent in almost all of the world until Ottoman influence kicked in in the 16-17th centuries.

They were Uralic peoples who have started their migration from the Ural mountains. They settled in with the Turkic Onogur Confederation(On-Ogur means ten tribes in Turkic). Some Greek fella recorded them as ungar deriving it from the Turkic tribes they were settling with. Thats how their names(known to the west) spreaded out. We still call them Macar though.

fassenkugel Sword of Attila is barely a saber

@fassenkugel sword or saber?

+VelmiVelkiZrut Thanks, we have a few Polish fencers in the club, it helps :-) It will of course not be very difficult to ever find out exactly why the sabre came about, but it is certainly true that the peoples who used in early on were mostly semi-nomadic and yes known for their horsemanship. Whether the sabre became what it was because of that horsemanship is a big question. Quite likely I should imagine, but it may just have been a more universal approach to a sword. I have seen quite a few interesting articles by swordsmiths explaining how sabres are simply easier and quicker to construct when forging. Today it has more interest to us as an infantry weapon simply because horses are scarce compared to what they were, and because so many of us came from a background of infantry sword usage such as the rapier or longsword.

By use of sabre is as it was used in British English through the period when it was in use as a weapon. Britannica, and most dictionaries are awful when it comes to technical descriptions, and even broader ones. For example in British English the sabre was by definition a curved blade, only the introduction of the sport sabre did it ever apply to something straight, and clearly a sport sabre is a very different animal to a military sabre. To call them heavy is a joke by people who know nothing about them, and even the "commonly a cavalry weapon" causes confusion, leading people to believe they were really only for that purpose. "Straight sabre" is not a thing in British English, though it is in American English, and also in French. Those languages have slightly different definitions.

That is true, and is a fascinating aspect of the last years of the sword in military use (extending to WW2 in smaller actions). Though the British didn't use sabres in WW1, having moved to a very different sort of blade, as well as lancers. Plenty of cavalry did make use of sabres in this time though.

I guess it was not having armour since guns made that obsolete. And what is the best sort of sword for cutting?

GdzieJestNemo can you guy in Poland buy sword

Battle of Komarów was probably the last battle between two large cavalry units, 2WW battles involved single cavalry regiments against infantry. But they were properly executed and most importantly successful cavalry charges, not some accidental involvement of guys who just happened to be sitting on horses.

It's actually called a Karabela .. meaning black bane in Turkish,

Sabers certainly originate from late ancient persia, from the Hungarian Onogur confederation or the turks. Ethimology doesnt really help in determining weather it originated with the Turks and the Hungarians adopted it along with agriculture, or the Hungarians brought the design from Siberia, as the name derives from absolutely basic words in both languages. Szab in hungarian means to cut. Szablya means cutter.

@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 Pontosan.

+Shaka12 Yeah... his not so convincing saber origin is quite eurocentric indeed. It probably has it's actual origins, like modern history is finding more and more things to have had, in several places at a time, and not one country. I'd guess around middle-east, western asia and eastern europe.

+Shaka12 You can't make them too long with out first developing quite good metalurgy

Patrurjonte Hum...anyone who is interested in history? I think that's pretty much what history is, what happened and where things originated.

Patrurjonte And there's pretty much no arguing where any type of violin originated, violin history is pretty mapped out.

I'd put the most likely origins to either the Byzantine or the Persian Empire. The byzantine sources mention the παραμήριον (sabre) first in history. The first finds of sabres were in the Carpathian Basin however.

Wasent paramerion curved the other way?

Ambarenya13 yeah I’m

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+MartinGreywolf Magyar/Hungary are used interchangeably today as far as geography goes. With their semi-nomadic lifestyle, and many other peoples around them, it may be hard to ever place a definite area as to where they came from. I would be interested to see more information on the development of Chinese sabres. I have seen a lot of evidence for Hungary (Magyar tribes) being the source, as well as peoples from Turkey and the surrounding area. But so often the information on Chinese blades is vague everywhere I look, for that period at least.

China most likely was NOT the origin of the saber. China from its early history up to the Song Dynasty did have backswords, but it seems that proper sabers that are curved seem to come in during the Yuan Dynasty when the Mongols invaded. The most likely "origin" of the saber seems to be Central Asian nomads of various types (Mongols, Turks, Magyars, etc.). With that said though, it seems likely that adding a curve to a single-edged sword is something that has developed independently across multiple parts of the world. For example, the transition from chokuto (a backsword) to tachi in Japan seems to have been done independently from China and the outside world and may have been partially influenced by swords belonging to northern Japan's native peoples, the Emishi, who developed curved short swords (i.e. warabite-to) without any outside influence. +Academy of Historical Fencing Here's some websites with some info on Chinese swords and sabers if you're interested: thomaschen.freewebspace.com/index.html chineseswords.freewebspace.com/about.html greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/search/label/sword

Academy of Historical Fencing Well, I'd have to disagree a bit about using Magyar and Hungary interchangeably to a degree. You are correct that Hungary today is mostly populated by Magyars (for all intents and purposes), so there's little distinction. However, as soon as we start talking about Hungary as in Kingdom of Hungary (or Austro-Hungarian Empire), they aren't interchangeable at all, especially if we talk about early history of it. While nobility did swiftly intermarry between themselves, people they ruled retained their culture and languages (well, aside from the christian conversion thing), to a point where foreign travelers gave specific names to certain parts of it based on ethnicity - there were little sabers and composite bows in the northern parts. Similar thing to this is claiming that Scotland and Wales are part of England.

+Robert Weston A hanger is a shortsword, typically a short sabre or short backsword. A cutlass is the same sword, and the terms were often used interchangeably. A Mortuary sword is a uniquely English type of basket hilt that had faces detailed on the guard, later Charles I after his death. They had both back edge and double edged blades. A backsword is just a single edged sword. Many early falchions looked like this, as well as a great many basket hilted swords. Sidesword is a sword which is a hybrid between medieval arming sword and the renaissance rapier. In between the two in length, it focuses on more thrust work than many arming swords would, but has a stronger cut than the rapier, and was commonly used in civilian wear and also military service. They are characterised by a protective hilt that allows the index finger to wrap over the guard like you would a rapier, A Schiavona is a unique style of basket hilt that rose from Italy to become popular throughout Europe. It typically has a long double, or single edged blade, a cats head pommel, a unique and characteristic basket shape and usually a thumb ring too (as found on many Polish sabres for example)

Look for a school that does it. If you can't find one, consider finding some like minded people and start a study group. It's one of the easiest weapons to get started with. Lots of people have started from the same position.

​ @PiotrHo4 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f5eKdteA1rzPnqc.html illetve kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mLiYh5aLnbrLomQ.html vagy kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pdFdl8iptt7KfKs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bq2ehat5v5eUcmg.html Atilla szablyája (atilla sabre) in austria kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ZsWqgJyBt7KbY30.html

GOOOOOOOOD. Remember the paramerion!!!

+Al M Indeed they are. Did I not mention that in the video? So much to talk about in a broad overview that I might have missed it.

I am not convinced that is always is an important factor as far as use goes. There is plenty of evidence of very hard and razor sharp Indian blades facing off against not so sharp and softer British sabres in the 19th century. There is no suggestion of how it changed their use. Though there is evidence that the wounds caused were slightly different, from deep slicing to more blunt force trauma. A very hard blade on a sabre could cause you to try and avoid certain dead parries due to brittleness, maybe. But I doubt it.

overhardened blade could easily break in two (over another one that is not so hard) from a strong hit...

Yes but I have never seen any sabres that are hardened to that point, not from any culture. I've not put the Japanese military sabres into test cutting so perhaps those might be.

+TheKrodgib Yes I certainly will do. Though very briefly I can tell you they were taught according to the same methods as the sabre, only some manuals recommend not striking towards the leg because of its short reach. I will get a video done soon to cover it in more detail.

It is a British coastguard and customs cutlass with no exact model year, but used throughout the Victorian period. Mine has had the side bar cut off, seeminglu intentionally as they were often done for easy storage. It was made by Enfield.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thank you! 👍🏻 It is very nice sword!

+Michael Eversberg II If the definition of a "curved sword" is used, the Katana is a sabre, the wakizashi is a (very short) sabre. So the Tachi and all others would be too.

Sebastian Szukalski Yes, I have heard this, but I am referring to the Japanese blade with western style hilt. He holds one up at one point.

+Michael Eversberg II That's a type 32 (or 1899). The type 25 (1892) also had a bowl-type guard. www.japaneseswordindex.com/civilian.htm

+Sebastian Szukalski you forgot about the blade length some Katana count as a saber others as a cutlass. Wakizashi definitely counts as a cutlass. Tachi tend to be a little longer on average I think, so most would be counted as a saber.

+Michael Eversberg II Sebastian Szukalski has already given you a good answer on the sword type. Yes mine is original, though the blade has been chrome plated at some stage which makes it look rather modern. They were popular for a short time period and came in both infantry and cavalry blade lengths. I get my antiques from many sources, usually local militaria and antiques dealers. Auction houses and militaria dealers/events are the best bet. The majority of dealers online are way overpriced, but there are a few good ones.

It's a very complex topic. For a start straight swords were not inherently stabbing swords. Many straight swords were intended more for the cut in fact. For example the 1796 light and heavy cavalry swords came out the same year, both intended as heavy cutting swords, but one very curved and the other straight. The role of the users played a part here, with light cavalry intended for haraessing and scout work, and the heavies a blunt instrument. Ultimately the driving force late on was a constant argument between which was best, cut or thrust, and most armies settled in the middle with a lightly curved blade well suited to both cut and thrust. The move towards very heavily thrust orientated blades like the 1892 infantry and 1908 trooper of course came very late, as swords were really in their last few years of active service, and this just came from a doctrine of through that followed the point being best in most situations, which isn't neccessarily right of course, but the feeling of the day by those most heavily involved with sword patterns.

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strange - is not it? Poles can do lectures about saber

+Maierek Maszkos I suspect it came from Asian steppes during migration period. It's not like anybody has any hard evidence to support their view, so early examples from Hungary hold some water. Definitely Hungarian sabers were very influential later on, no matter if they originated there or elsewhere.

bakters fun fact we own a saber whuch was wielded by one of my ancestor's during WW1. Too bad he broke it and grinded the blade to a wakizashi sized blade. And some years ago the grip started to loose so my father fixed it with ducktape... That sword looks funny: a one handed sabre with almost no guard, a ducktaped hilt, 40 cm blade with a little rust on it... Best heritage ever :)

Maierek Maszkos Display it in an easy to see place, and speak about it with great pathos in your voice to unsuspecting visitors. Tell your family to rank their reactions, and discuss it in their presence for extra points. If they get offended, rank that too! ;-)

***** as far as i know it was shortend to be able to use as a household tool after the war.

bakters i am not offended so easily, u should try harder

+rasnac It is more difficoult than that. The predecessors of the sabres were single edged straight swords, that appeared around in the 7th century a.d. in the eurasian steppes, and soon after-if no t at the same time- in Skandinavia (above mentiond "berserker sword"). They evolved into "messers" and falchions in western europe, and sabres in the steppes. In central Europe Hungary, Poland etc) sabres were pushed to the side in high middle ages in favour of streight blades, becouse of the cultural shift into christianity and with it to chivalric warfare (increasing quality and quantity of armour, thrust-to-the-gaps tactic, etc). Howewer they weren't forgotten becouse of numerous conficts with east european nomads. During the Ottoman Empire's extension warfare shifted back towards the more mobile, less armoured, light cavalry based eastern stile. In this period messers/ dussaks became more popular in german and chech territories and hungarians developed their own type of sabre on the base of the turkish kilij and the dussak. The later versions of this sabre type and the name "szablya" ,which ruffly means "cutter", were adopted in Poland when a Hungarian noble, Báthory István became king of Poland as Stefan Báthory 17th c.). In the 18th century polish and hungarian light cavalry became the model of the light cavalry troops of modern western armies: the hussars. They introduced the sabre in western eu. again, becouse in the 17th century european swordsmanship continued the shift towards thrusting swords.

+rasnac Hungarians did invent sabers.

+rasnac The truth is that the earliest sabres come from graves dated c.680 A.D.. These were Avar sabres. The Magyars came to Hungary already with sabres. I would think the Avars invented the sabre, because Central Asia only got sabres after the year 800.

+Chroma The ruling class themselves came from Central Asia, as probably the curved sword design. C. Asians pretty much touched every corner of EurAsian, Eastern Europe being one of them. Hungarians did not.

+Christopher Szabo did Magyars have connect to Avars?And I think this should be "earliest saber like sword" not "modern saber origin" because as this video mention, modern saber is just one type of European backsword."they both curve" doesn't means the elder one is "the father" of another

+Ranziel1 There are a couple of techniques that are essentially winding, but they are comparatively rare. With the dexterity, speed and rotational elements of a sabre, they are rarely useful.

It may well be an infantry officers sword. They were typically based on the 1796 light cav, but made a little smaller and lighter. It is still a sabre. In fact around 30" is very typical for British infantry sabres of the late 18th and early 19th century. You could also have a cut down cavalry sword. I'd need to see pictures. But at that length and a thinner guard, very much suggest infantry officer. The dividing line between hanger and sabre is a blurry one, but its somewhere around 29". You will find some stats on some of the swords I own here - www.flickr.com/photos/155366595@N06/albums/72157690346713756

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+Tom Rundell I find them quite interesting. Certainly they reduce the chance of slipping or losing grip, and they can increase power in some actions. However they can feel a little awkward in some actions. I have only used them briefly with sabres though so need to do a little more before coming to a more thorough conclusion. I have used them with basket hilts and that is my opinion so far.

Sabre is a type of sword. Sword is an umbrella term.

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It can vary a fair bit depending on the period and style. But the typical range (not including cavalry) is 700g-900g. What is ideal depends on the type of guard, length of blade, and how you intend to use it. For example, Napoleonic British infantry sabres, the ideal is around 750-800g. For post 1821 where the guards were more developed, and blades a little longer, 820-900,

The Khopesh is generally believed to have evolved out of axes, and so despite some similarities, there are some significant differences to sabres, from the blades heavy forward cant, to it's trapping and pulling elements, where it may well have even been reversed and used like a hook, all of these facts take it far from the sabre as we would commonly use the term. We'd generally consider sabres to be swords with a continous, uninterupted and gradual rearward curve. This means a sabre will draw through a target and not stop on it like an axe or forward canted blade.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I see your point. However I kinda view things from an Indian perspective. In ancient India term for sabre was Kharga which means horn of a rhino. So a sword with a certain degree of curvature would be called as Kharga as it resembled the horn of a rhino. We can see Kopesh like swords all over indian imagery they were always termed as Kharga and these types of blades are still used today. However when the proper Sabre/Scimitar was introduced in India they were still classified as Kharga. However they were now termed as Talwar and also Shamshir because of linguistic development rather than anything else and these terminologies became permanent as times went by. However the term Karga was still used as an umbrella term for swords in general

+kiran hill Well it's not quite true that they did. If you look to the Napoleonic era, it is a complete mix of completely straight blades (heavy cav, spadroon, navy officer, cutlass), to heavily curved (1803 infantry, light cav and flank officer swords). In the 1820's, all of the above moved to lightly curved blades, which clearly are a compromise between the two, and that is largely the reason. A desire to have a blade that excels at both cut and thrust. Like most compromises though, it rarely works out that way. Move onwards towards the later 19th century when they finally went straight for most swords - this was a new philosophy, that the point was better than the edge. It was researched and found that the point was more likely to kill than the edge, something the French relied on in the Napoleonic era. This doctrine of course is far from perfect.

'Considered to be one of the best if not the best pattern sword ever made'. I was merely mentioning that reputation because it speaks volumes to how well it was considered in its day and still is today, not that I think it is the best sword, merely that it is an exceptional one. Yes context is everything, but a sword is best judged on how good it is for the job it was intended or was used, and the 1796 LC excelled as a light cavalry sword, as opposed to many other British patterns that were plagued with reports of faults and design flaws, many of which were justified. Throughout the 19th century British doctrine turned more towards light tipped swords that were better suited to thrusting, whilst still being good as at cutting, but many believe the compromise was a compromise too far. Being not particularly great at either. In fact the British Indian cavalry were still using the type for a hundred years longer after the British regulars adopted new patterns. Not every change is for the best :-) So no, not the best sword, but one of the best certainly.

Academy of Historical Fencing Thank you very much for clearing it up! I didn't mean to nitpick, it just struck me as an odd thing to say, coming from someone with your expertise in the matter. Makes much more sense with that elaborate answer, of course without wanting to dive into the thrust vs cut discussion. So thanks again, I appreciate it!

+edi It's not about size. However a Pallasch can have a single or double edged blade. In English, the the time period of the sabre, the equivalent term for a pallasch would be broadsword, which can be single or double, like the Scots broadsword. But even that term is not exact, as often sabres were called broadswords sometimes. A backsword is of course, by definition, always single edged.

+Tyler Lalonde Thanks. Are you after examples just to look at or to buy? Military Heritage do at least one, the straight bladed 1804 British pattern. That one as an original is worth a lot because of its Napoleonic heritage, others are much cheaper. You can often get 19th century cutlass for £70-120. Let me know what you are after and I can send links.

Academy of Historical Fencing​ hangers and cutlass. I've got a couple books with examples but there's only a few.

+Tyler Lalonde British Napoleonic cutlass - www.antiqueswordsonline.com/british-1804-pattern-naval-cutlass/ This document - www.cutandparry.com/86_tuuite_naval.pdf This book - www.amazon.co.uk/British-Naval-Swords-Swordsmanship-McGrath/dp/184832135X This book has a lot of hangers - www.amazon.com/British-Military-Swords-Volume-Standing/dp/1931464618 1900 pattern cutlass for sale at top of page - www.blunderbuss-antiques.co.uk/shop.php Bristol police practicing with the Police regulation cutlass/hanger - c1.staticflickr.com/3/2071/2049070157_03e1019c91_b.jpg

Thanks

It's true that almost nobody makes them. it would be worth asking Dr. Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani, who specialises in Persian martial arts. I know he has aluminium ones made at least. Besides that, I just had a shamshir bladed British infantry sabre made (as they were popular around 1800), by Wjocech Szanek in Poland. He will make you one, but it will cost around 400 euros.

+Christopher Eppig PoB 8", 2.6lbs total.

+Academy of Historical Fencing Wow, that's a beast! Thanks for the response!

Try the Razmafzar channel.

+Tyler Lalonde As masterorca said. Dr. Khorasani's is a passionate and dedicated researcher and practitioner of those arts, definitely check out his channel. kzfaq.info/love/EkddFkwPzt5q_Z6F23sNUQ

+hotsteamypudding For one, that was the philosophy for the time by the army, whether we agree or not is another matter. Like the 1908 was believed to be the greatest cavalry sword ever designed by those creating military doctrine of the time.

Academy of Historical Fencing oh sure - I was just disagreeing with their philosophy. Sadly this kind of thematic logic hasn't gone away.

+Alex Hutchins What sort of hilt type does it have in terms of protection and how much curvature? Sounds like you probably have something well suited to the Infantry Sword Exercise manual from Henry Angelo. The art of defence on foot by Roworth is what we most study from, and it is perfectly applicable to a range of sabres.

+Academy of Historical Fencing It has a double side ring guard with s-shaped quillons and about an inch of deflection over the length of the blade.

+Alex Hutchins Sounds like you might have something rather earlier period to around the 16th century. Any chance you could show me a picture? Or find an image of something similar online?

+Academy of Historical Fencing This is the same as mine, except mine does not have the piecework (www.alcheminc.com/AguirreS2.jpg). I fence through the S.C.A. so I am looking for a mid 16th century style more so. Not that it really matters.

+Alex Hutchins With that style of sword I would be inclined to stick with sidesword type Bolognese swordsmanship like Marozzo or Dall'agocchie. It will work perfectly for those systems. If you specifically wanted something with a curved blade, well there are very few early resources on sabre. You could consider look at Richard Marsden's Polish sabre book which tries to reconstruct 17th century Polish sabre by merging later systems with earlier related weapons. Or check out Joachim Meyers dussack possibly.

+Michal Lukáč 1805 pattern - it is a spadroon, and like the 1796 infantry spadroon, it was assumed that the officers wearing them would likely never have to fight with them. At this time period you will find constant reference to officers buying sabres, based on the 1803 or pre/non regulation similar models, just as many army officers were doing. You will often find these in museums and auction houses. 1827 model - this comes from a period of standardisation where all services were essentially using a derivative of the same pattern. Look to infantry, cavalry and navy at this time and they are all essentially the same weapon. Fashion, standardisation, an approach to a more universal weapon, an attempt to make a perfect hybrid cut and thrust sabre. All of these reasons are major factors.

+Academy of Historical Fencing Are you positive about that? None of the examples of the 1805 I saw had spadroon blades, they were all a straight-edge backsword (much like the later infantry models) with a stirrup hilt. One was even pipe-backed. And the 1827 is at most as curved as the 1845 infantry model.

+Michal Lukáč That is what the British spadroon blade is. A light, straight, single edge backsword blade. Spadroons can have a variety of blade types, and hilt types. It is simply a lightweight, short straight sword for use on foot. The 1805 was just a new fashion/pattern version of the great many simple spadroons that came before it for both infantry and naval use in the 18th century, such as the five ball spadroon.

Both original antiques. The first is a British coastguard and customs cutlass made by Enfield around 1870. The second is a Type 32 gunto, a Japanese design of military sabre, the one shown is a period Chinese version who also adopted the sword.

Thank You man

It is a sport sabre as I say in the video. But no that is not a rapier style hand guard in any way. That is a bowl hilt, as commonly found on a great many sabres of the 19th century. The blade is much like an epee though, meaning this sport weapon has very little in common with either sabre or rapier.

Get rekt

No I would not. Because I would define a sabre as a curved blade, and a kopis, falcate etc as a recurve blade. Despite them being curved, the curve in the opposite direction creates a very different dynamic.

​ @PiotrHo4 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f5eKdteA1rzPnqc.html illetve kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mLiYh5aLnbrLomQ.html vagy kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pdFdl8iptt7KfKs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bq2ehat5v5eUcmg.html Atilla szablyája (atilla sabre) in austria kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ZsWqgJyBt7KbY30.html

Napoleonic period British infantry sabres were anywhere between 9-15cm, due to the massive variety of blades. Post 1821 there was a little more standardisation, and 10-13cm is typical. You might want to check out this album where I have started logging a lot of data for swords I own - www.flickr.com/photos/155366595@N06/sets/72157690346713756

Academy of Historical Fencing thank you so much for answering my question, it does mean alot, would 7 3/8 inches or 19 centimeters be far too forward balanced to be controllable as a weapon for dueling? or in your experience where do you think is the best point of balance for a non cavalry sabre?

+Light Hawk Solo wise there are some things you can do, but they are very limited. Check out these two videos for more on the subject - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rNtxdpuG0qy8YJ8.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qq-Xictm3qeYcmQ.html

Ok, thanks a lot

+sf90001 They came about a lot later than the sabre in Eastern Europe, the middle east and the far east, but they may well be one of the ways in which such swords gained in popularity in Northern Europe yes. I will indeed put the subject on my list of videos to make.

That's very interesting, I look forward to seeing the video! And since Blackfencer makes practice Messers maybe some dueling videos too? If that's not to much to hope for.

+sf90001 We don't have any of the BF messers. Personally they are not my kind of thing. But I have ordered a storta from them, which uses the same blade and is essentially a slightly later period type of falchion.

That's alright, still looking forward to the video.

Yes, but these are just commonly used terms for talking about the type of weapon. Just as the Italians never used the term rapier in it's day, but it became to be known that in English and other derivatives in other languages as time went on.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Right.. my point being, the rather modern terms you've used like "viking sword" and "sabre" referring to Viking period swords is, in the time frame we're speaking of (nearly 1200 years), just as novel as Berserkr when referring to single edged Viking period swords. Edit: Btw absolutely gorgeous collection. Are those all yours or shared in a club? Can't imagine how much money must have gone into it if it's all yours.

Also would you be able to recommend any reading materials, specifically in regards to mid 18th (like seven years war era) century sabre fighting.

+David Craft Scimitar is a catch all European term for middle eastern sabres. Therefore the scimitar is a sabre, just of middle eastern origin. The term is falling from use now though as people use more accurate terms for the range of swords it covers, such as Tulwar, Pulwar, and Shamshir. For some accounts of combat which I assume is what you are after, I would check out this and it's sequel - www.goodreads.com/book/show/23873431-swordsmen-of-the-british-empire

+Academy of Historical Fencing thanks!

+swietoslaw Because the term sword is a catchall phrase for all long bladed weapons that are larger than a knife. So a longsword, an arming sword, a sabre, a rapier, they are all in the same umbrella term of 'sword'.

Academy of Historical Fencing Only in English ;) and this have no sens. You have sword, which divided into. Sword (longsword, arming sword etc) Sabers Battle knife But all are name sword, but when you look on polearms they name is not the name on one particular weapon. And historically speaking in y region (Poland) sabers were never swrod, rapiers from west were call that.

+swietoslaw It is just a matter of variation from one country and culture to another. Look at the rapier for example. They were always called rapier in Britain, and yet in Italy, they were just called spada - sword. I think it makes a lot of sense. Sometimes you can have two weapons that are almost identical, just one is straight and the other has a modest curve, and yet you would call them something different? But then English is a bastard language :-)

Academy of Historical Fencing But word is from espada ropiera (or some thing like that) and meant just sword for clothe (civilian) then that why it is called in many country just sword. But with sabers its different, most of sabers (especially earlier then XVIII century) was having different fighting style and were more curved, and just west lightly curved sabers where use in combat more like falchions or backsword. And again is also all this battle knife like seax, german messer etc, which are just big knife.

Sorry I missed this first time around. Right now I just don't have experience or knowledge enough to talk about it. I have slowly over the last year begun to research the weapon and start to look into styles that use it. We do have one Chinese sword practitioner in the club. We aim to get some training versions made soon to have a play with, but it is very early days.

Swords in WW2 Japan were due to a revival. They certainly had fallen out of use. But a push to bring back the romanticised memory of the samurai and instil a warrior culture in the common soldier led to the revival of the sword.

Scimitar is a catchall term in English for a whole family of sabres from the middle east and surrounding region, such as the Shamshir and Tulwar. Sabre is the overall term for a curved blade sword.

Thank you. :)