Here is some practical advice: if you want better music, ad orientem, altar rails: PRAY FOR IT. Yes, God answers these prayers. It happened at my parish.

I reverted from orthodoxy to catholicism because I live 30 min away from a FSSP parish. And 15 minutes from an orthodox catholic parish. So I can go to two lively parish full of faith and traditional wholesome faith and practice. The FSSP parish is full at every one of four masses on sunday. I am truly blessed! Glory to God!

I am happy that these questions are being addressed in a more public and easily digestible way.

I’m a staunch traditionalist, a convert from evangelical Protestantism, and I accept Vatican II in its entirety. It just saddens me that it was so sensationalized and poorly implemented. What Vatican II was and what was put in place are two different things.

What they said about music in the liturgy around 1:19:00 and 1:32:30 was so spot on. If you read Sacrosanctum Concilium, it very clearly states that SACRED music shall have pride of place, and Gregorian Chant, polyphony, and the ORGAN are the most appropriate methods to use for music in the liturgy. I'm a cantor at my parish and I've been trying to communicate this to the music director.

It is my experience in my parish that older parishioners (60 and older) are primarily the ones who keep calling for "new"/popular music (and video screens!), because they think it will attract the young people. Ironically, the young people are the ones who crave the "old time" (Gregorian/traditional organ) music and more traditional celebration and involvement in the Mass. I think the oldsters (I'm 56, so I can cast dispersion) only knew the folk-singing, tambourine-playing hippie version of Mass from the '70's, and they think the "youngsters" of today also "need" the current cultural influence, instead of relying on the timeless mystery and Grace of the Holy Spirit to make the connection.

My devout catholic father left Catholic boarding school in 1960 notes that he got through 6 years of Catholic education with little idea of the catechism Lack of formation is definitely not a post-V2 phenomena. There has never been a better time for formation that now. This is and will be a golden age for Catholicism. It’s genuinely exciting

I consider myself traditional, and I am of the opinion that criticism of Vatican II is largely anti-traditionalist. The Church has the power to call these councils and we as obedient members should follow their lead. We should operate from the assumption that our interpretation is uncharitable or wrong, not that our leaders have done wrong. That is, imo, the traditional approach. And as I’ve dug into this issue, that opinion has only been affirmed

1:56:55 - This part of the conversation… WOW! God have mercy on us! The entire interview was worth it just for these few minutes.

Dr. DeClue is so delightful thanks for having him on the show!!!!! My favourite episode so far!

I grew up in NO and as a kid liked the happy clappy sappy mass, but now most seem like all the settings, actions, music of it work against belief in the sacrifice of the mass -- Christ the King giving himself to redeem us and feeding us himself in the Eucharist. Mostly NO masses are like penance to me. I attend our diocese low mass on Sundays and we have a sense that our priests greatly care for our souls by their actions and homilies, and we have a volunteer schola that chants so beautifully it brings tears of joy!

Awesome discussion. More of these truths about the Council need to be emphasized. I was taken in by a lot of the common errors for years to my peril.

More stuff like this please.

Excellent interview. I really appreciate the humility of Dr. Richard - he prefers to explain why he can't give a straight answer instead of pushing something confidently. And I like his line of clearing the understanding of words and sources before making a statement, with a charitable approach towards these who have good intentions even if they mix up some terms.

I absolutely loved this episode. Dr. DeClue was fantastic. I hadn’t heard of him before. There’s so much goodness in here, and many many things I needed to hear personally. Thank you for this Matt & everyone at PWA!

Dr. Declue is a real one. We are blessed by him

Richard DeClue is awesome. Loved his talks with Matthew Minerd

This is gonna be so good. His call with Tim Gordon a few years ago remains my go-to for V2 doubts.

Coming into communion with the Church in January. If I did not have the context that the Church could be more than what I saw at my geographically local parish, I am not confident I would be entering the Church, or at least not in the time or with the joyful heart that I am. The tradition and its beauty were a major evangelical tool in my story.

1:59:38 Very well said!!! Wow!!!! What DeClue says right there speaks to my heart... Sometimes, I feel like some people might see me as a "lukewarm" because I try to have hope in the actual state of THE CHURCH. I don't want to throw it to the garbage... I choose to be respectful and obedient. That does not mean to agree with everything. But sometimes I feel that the anger is over the board...

deClue is fantastic. He's one of the guys on KZfaq that brought me out of the Rad (Bad) Trad rabbit hole I'd gone down. Looking forward to this one!

“If your temptation is to usurp the rights of the Church hierarchy and authority and become its judge…. Every schismatic thought that they were the faithful remnant, every single one thought they were right and Rome was wrong” -- good luck with that!!! Chose you this day whom you shall serve but as for me and my household we shall serve the Church!! Nice interview! Kudos Dr DeClue, very balanced perspective 😊

Yes! Your spiritual life and disposition should be our primary focus!

26:26 I took my father (who altar served before Vatican II) to a TLM. He was so confused seeing the servers choreographed movements throughout the Mass. Because in all his years he had only ever served low Masses.

This was a great discussion and thank you for the clarity on Vatican 2!

Love these overlays on the screen adding context THURSDAY. Well done

FYI, DeClue has 6 part video lecture on V2 on the Word on Fire institute yt channel. There he takes a narrative approach to the coucil. Real worth it.

The fact thelogians used to be considered more mystical is interesting. I didn't know that. We need more of that honestly.

Thank you for this wonderful interview. I can attest to the point that Novus Ordo masses are improving, and young people (and seminarians/young priests) are a large part of it. Pray for the Church.

That was honestly the best talk ive heard about the "salvation outside the church" issue 💖

I think the beauty of the Latin Mass is the silence. IMHO it allows us to focus on God and the sacrifice of His Son. Sadly its pretty hard in some countries to find a TLM that is in communion with Rome. Hard but not impossible. As someone else said - Pray 🙏✝

Thank you for making the entire program (rather than parts) available to us learners. I am fascinated by the discussion of the pros and cons of Novus Ordo. As a child, Latin served only to lock me out of the beauty of the Mass. I was overjoyed when English could be used. Now, I am old enough (really old!) to appreciate the concept of the mass being offered to God rather than focused on a man in the person of the officiating priest. I want to learn more. I am so old, I studied Latin for three years in high school and I loved it.

I hope to become a catholic someday

That's not true that we didn't appreciate the Mass in the 50's. I loved it and I was a tiny child. I was 12 when then forced the NO on me, and I wept. I'm sorry to say I hated the new one. The way it was implemented was like a hostile takeover. I hated the altar rail being taken away, the gifts being brought up and the priest facing me, women on the Altar and the speed that it took place. The lack of devotion was the absolute worst. I died when they "dumped my Lord , shoved Him into the side Altar and took His place". I hope that doesn't offend anyone. I just knew what they threw out. I adore God. My life in the Church has been dictated by folks who have no idea what they're doing. And blaming us. No one asked me if I wanted it changed. I don't know anyone who was asked. I attend both Masses now mostly the NO with an incredibly devout priest. He makes it closer to the actual plan of Vatican II. But it's hard now because of the militant attitude of the NO women parishioners. They seem to take over in a militant way. The priests are afraid of them because they complain to the Bishop. God in my hand, no thank you. I want God in my soul!

Great interview - as always :) I like your way of talking. Ordinary conversation about extraordinary matters! Warm regards from Poland.

Fascinating episode so far - I have so many thoughts and questions!

Such a balanced view on V2!!!! DeClue is now on my new favorite theologian!!!

This episode was edifying for both brain and soul. Bravo. You know, I came back to the church two years ago after drifting in sin for 25 years and it was pretty humiliating to know what a worm I was and am. But this discussion has also helped me to see how important a shield humility is in this ridiculous world. Let me never forget it.

Glad to see this collaboration. This is exactly what the Church needs. Glad that there are prominent voices standing up for the truth, supporting each other, and subsequently supporting the confused laity like myself. Keep standing up to the doomsday cultists.

This was an insightful and uplifting conversation - rare combo these days. Thank you both.

I needed to hear this! Thank you for educating us. It's always humbling when I'm faced with how very much I don't know about our Church.

2:08:54 Nailed it. I’ve had to unsubscribe from certain channels because of this tendency it creates in me. And I really struggle with knowing if I’m demonstrating righteous anger or pride. So difficult. Jesus didn’t hold back to offer scathing words to the Pharisees and yet we are also told to ‘learn from Me for I am meek and humble of heart’. We have brains to use to discern between good, evil, error etc and yet without love we are totally useless. Matt identifies with astute precision how our human hearts can be prone to malice even when condemning what we know is wrong in the Church or in public figures. I think Richard and Matt are spot on in that the answer is prayer. The more we are personally united to Christ the more our hearts are balanced. Pray for me!

“You can’t just gloss things over because you saw something on KZfaq or some blog” - love it

Dr deClue is great. I always do my research before listening to any armchair theologian on social media

Like a lot of “Vatican II questions answered” content, I found this to be underwhelming. I think Matt threw a lot of pulled a lot of punches with his questions. 1. Why was the council necessary? Yes the world changed but what exactly was the issue? If I’m not mistaken, Ecumenical councils are set to address a particular problem. 2. Dr. DeClue gave a lot of “the council wasn’t implemented correct” without an explanation of WHY it wasn’t. 3. If the council implementation was taken so far out of left field, why do we have Pope JPII kissing the Quran, widespread liturgical abuse, a second iconoclasm, and widespread teaching of false ecumenism etc. post Vatican II 4. Why does it seem the church hierarchy is so against anything traditional while giving a pass/promoting open heretics who want change the faith? I’m not saying these questions don’t have answers. But when you claim you’re going to “Answer Vatican II questions” I expected more than the cookie cutter “well technically that wasn’t supposed to happen” answers we always get. The best Dr. DeClue could do many times when given the slightest pushback was “I don’t know, I’m not an expert”, “trads have a poor prayer life”, and “the priests used to say the mass really fast so we needed a council”. Give me a break.

This is a VERY good interview. I don’t think the power of mental prayer can be underestimated, particularly if there is change or renewal we seek to achieve.

Thanks Matt! Great , balanced interview. Dr. DeClue is a breath of fresh air. I'm hoping that he has an increased presence on digital media.

So much of the evidence for assertions made are things like “my mom told me” or “if I had to guess”. Good on Matt for pushing back on assertions backed up without much other than anecdotal evidence.

Can’t wait for this one!

I love, LOVE this guest, Dr. Richard DeClue. His message is clear, simple and makes perfect sense. For me, the battles of Vatican 2 were a source of anxiety and confusion. Dr. DeClue flushes that confusion away. Thanks to both of you!!!

Saving this one for many future viewings. One of the best ever.

Thanks so much for this. Really clarifying and helpful. Glad to see Matt so open to learning from this Dr.

Love the handheld incense they are using while discussing V2.

This interview is amazing! Thank you so much!

There is a parish in the Archdiocese of Detroit (Old St. Mary's in Greektown) that does one novus ordo Mass per weekend in Latin, with a communion rail and choir. It's beautiful. Sadly, there hasn't been the revival that one would hope to see. The church is nearly empty every week. Once a month that Mass is tridentine instead, and there are always more people there. It's a very interesting thing!

Best episode you had in a while, and you just had Ralph Martin on!

The ordinariate mass that I attend is as close to being TLM but not. The priest is facing the tabernacle (and eastward), great traditional music, some Latin responsorials (sung/chanted), the traditional Kyrie, super solemn, and we have a communion rail! I am so glad that I found this parish close by. If I want to go to a diocesan TLM Missa Cantata I have to drive 30 minutes, versus 6 minutes. I thank the Franciscan brothers for putting great emphasis on solemnity and bringing in parts of the old style that are missing in my local parish (within walking distance). 🙏✝🙏

"The virtue is the mean between two vices. You can fail to have virtue by excess or privation." Well said. I tell my son that every good has a sin on either side. And C.S. Lewis said it in The Screwtape Letters before either of us.

1:17:23 another W for the personal ordinariate, we LOVE to see it!

Guitars sounds as other string instruments are so beautiful. It should never be excluded from any Church liturgy.

Longtime listener, first time commenter….. THANK YOU for including this perspective. Matt, you do a great job of challenging any guest you have on their views, but I’m so glad Dr Declue stood by his beliefs and the Church. I came back to the faith a few years ago after almost a decade away and was nearly turned off the faith again by the aggressive attacks on Pope Francis by people who claim to be Catholic that seem to have overrun Catholic social media. It was only once I unplugged from Daily Wire (very sad that is the representation of Catholics that most non-Catholics will see) and certain KZfaqrs and began engaging more with regular faithful Catholics IRL that I realized how much harm some of the more “traditionalist” content can do to individuals and church unity. For me the streams of vitriol were replaced by Archbishop Fulton Sheen recordings, Mother Angelica and Bishop Barron for my drive to work and my life feels so much more peaceful.

Edifying, thank you both for this. God bless 🕊 ❤️

Im so glad i listened to this. Thank you.

Great to see Richard on here.

Richard's request at the 1:45:18 mark is already done here in Nigeria. Well here in Lagos. Either First or Last Sunday of the month. Apart from the readings and sermon it is mostly Latin.

This was AWESOME! Inspired me to get more involved at my church. God bless you both.

I appreciate the Humility and lack of condemnation of those "in the process", but at the same time identifying what should have been better. And now we need to do the better!

Great episode

Why is it that almost every pope since the council has been either canonized or beatified? Historically (at least the past 1000 years) papal canonizations have been rare.

Your Chanel is top notch Mat! 👍 This interview is really is amazing💥 🎸🙌 CHEERS from the Shenandoah valley

I live in a protestant country where Catholics are about 4% of the population or roughly 14k people. I live in a small town, and the only Catholic church we have serves the novus ordo mass, so I'm happy with what I can get! I've asked our parish priest if there is any chance to have the TLM in my country, and he said the local bishop would not allow it.

23:00 Archbishop Sheen's speech on the Antichrist in 1947 also mentions how pagan the Church is

Without being diesrespectful, but how can one not realise that none of these points critisised in the preconciliar council actually has gotten any better? I mean yes maybe many masses were fast and many people went there more because of cultural reasons, but is that worse than having less than 5% (in my country) of catholics even attending mass, and even if you attend there is a possibility of severe sacrilege in your mass (like women preaching or gay blessings etc...)? Sure the council is not the root of these problems, but it did not succeed in figthing any of these problems and it very much seems like, at least its implementation actually made it worse in some cases.

Dr. DeClue get's it!

I entered my parish back in 2021 before they changed priest, and I loved it. It was very serious, and very reverent. and I was excited to enter that church, but then everything changed and the new pastor came in and new priest, and it became almost like a joke. It was very protestant like. I’ve gone to protestant churches, and I felt like I was in a protestant church I still received my sacraments, but I remember how uncomfortable I was when I was receiving them. They have masses where they play jazz. And it feels like almost disrespectful because they’re playing this loud jazz music while the bread and wine is turning to the body and blood of Christ and you can’t even pay attention because of music so loud. I found a new church though, but it’s kind of far and it’s in the city, but I went yesterday and I absolutely loved it. It was silent and you could just tell that the people that were there really believed in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I absolutely loved it and will be going back, but I understand the struggle of people who are frustrated with their parishes, it doesn’t even seem like I’m in a Catholic Church sometimes I have to sit there and make myself realize you’re in a Catholic church not a protestant church

I think a good background explanation comes from Bishop Barron discussing “1917” with Brandon Vought. Great explanation of society.

I've been looking for the words to describe what Dr DeClue said in this interview. It seems to me (and I'm by no means the interpreter of all things) that what we see today in terms of liturgical "chaos" is really a laying open of what was interiorly the case before VII. I would love to see a return to the TLM in the Roman Church (lex orandi, lex credendi after all) but I also am willing to believe that the Novus Ordo is meant to teach us a lesson, to help us to become a truly Catholic people who could be entrusted with the TLM. I suppose only time will tell.

Fantastic 🎉

Can’t wait!

Such a well done discussion.

I really needed to hear this.

For some of the liturgical questions that didn't get answered fully I highly recommend listening to Father Eric Gilbaugh. He was on Catholic Stuff You Should Know last year and talked specifically about the liturgical movement throughout the 20th century and how it came to a head in V2. He gives some more possible reasons why Versus Populum became so dominant: For one, it was thought that was direction early liturgies were done based on archeological discoveries. People thought it was a return to a more "authentic" orientation but, according to him, that has since been disproven after more study. Secondly, (and this come from Ratzinger) at St. Peter's basilica the Pope faces the congregation while doing mass with the altar separate from the wall. So people used mass at St. Peter's as a model for how to do mass with a free standing altar. The irony though is that the reason the Pope faces the people is in order to face East. St. Peter's couldn't be built with the nave behind the altar so they built it in front of it. Ratzinger says it was an architectural accident of history that mass at St. Peters is done facing the people - the true purpose was for the celebrant to face East. As for music, people may not realize how much of a tall order it was in the 70s to start doing sacred music. As they mentioned, the average parish had no music at mass. There likely weren't any existing choirs and the priests themselves probably didn't know how to chant well. So they had to learn something brand new. On top of that the musical books for the Mass (the Graduale Romanum and Simplex) were only published in Latin and largely ignored by translators. So when masses started to be done completely in the vernacular and hymns were permitted as a 4th option, people went down the path of least resistance and just chose to do hymns. To my knowledge there's no official liturgical translation in English for the Graduale Romanum or Simplex.

I have been waiting for you to interview Dr. DeClue for a long time. This will be fantastic I am sure!

I hope you do more with this man

Re Vatican II: "By their fruits ye will know them." The Church ALWAYS needs renewal, but I remember as a child my parents and their intellectual Catholic friends saying "They are asking for trouble." They sure got it.

I'm a Millennial, I grew up with the NO, and my parents and I sang in an amazing choir at our church for many years. I love some of those songs. I love being able to sing along at Mass. I think Gregorian chant is also beautiful, but everyone's taste in music is different. Please don't assume no one likes the music being sung at NO Masses.

At the religious community where I go to Mass, today we were in a different chapel, where the altar was against the wall, we had a Novus Ordo mass with the priest facing away. Perfectly fine

Okay, hilarious story, I wore some old painting sweats to the dealership as part of my strategy to get honest service and low price. 1.5 HOURS…not one salesman came. Finally I approached a sales person and asked to see the sales manager who showed up expecting a ‘scene’. I walked over to the truck I wanted and opened up my fanny pack (yep, dad outfit all the way) and showed him the cash I brought to pay in full. He became sooooo helpful. I had to tell him that while I was waiting I had the time to order the truck of my choice online and was having it delivered. I suggested he talk to his sales staff about expectations. I did go back and open a commercial fleet account for our farm later on but it seemed like the right thing to do to establish dominance first before actually doing business. (In a Christian way of course…lol)

Big agree about the positive focus on faith.

This video is fantastic.

As a resident of the Archdiocese of Detroit, living in the city of Detroit, I can say that there are multiple parishes in the city near me that are reverent Ordinary Form diocesan parishes (many of them also offer the TLM). I think what has made these parishes able to be successful in regards to liturgical reverence and accuracy according to the prescribed rubrics is that through the 70's, 80's, and 90's, these parishes lost many members to the suburbs. These churches that were built to hold 1000 people would pull 150 for Sunday Mass. What happened through this, though, is that the remaining people at the parish, clearly devoted to their church and to the faith, would be able to build almost a new parish, which was able more fully to realize the goals of Vatican II, especially as it pertains to the liturgy. Instead of having to reform a parish of 700 families, some of which wanted the clown liturgies and felt banners everywhere, pastors could reform a parish of 200 people who were, and are, devoted to their church and THE Church. As we are now seeing, nearly all of these parishes in the city have growing communities of young adults who take their faith seriously and want to be holy sons and daughters of God, above all else. Now, of course, this is a generalization, but by and large, this rule holds here in Detroit, and I suspect it is the case in many other cities.

I guess by now you both know that Voris resigned and why he resigned. Dr. Richard is absolutely correct in putting forward mental prayer and a deeper prayer life in general for all of us.

The segment on Media Impact underscores the imperative that our Pope be as clear and unambiguous as possible. To my mind, that segment affirms the anxiety the faithful have when we hear statements that sound double-minded or ambiguous, because of the precedent for Progressive/academic interpretive rot. Ratzinger/BXVI spent a good portion of his life combating those forces, trying to clarify the points that those forces made a mess of.

In my parish we only do the Latin in responses only during Lent, nothing else is in Latin. I wish we did more.

We have been to several parishes in the DFW area. The Church has fallen so far from any sort of tradition, it's distressful. We walked into a new parish this weekend. The priests were walking down the aisle while modern gospel music with guitars was playing. People were in jeans. Sneakers. Are we pandering to the Protestant majority? What is this? We've lost our identity.

My parish has two churches it uses throughout the week. One is traditional architecture of the 1800s and the other is a building probably made in the 70s/80s. When they do mass at the older church they do the incense and have a proper organ, when they do the mass at the newer church they don’t have incense but they have an electric organ and a choir. Same priest does both masses. Both novus ordo.

I’m a Protestant, but I grew up Catholic going to the Novus Ordo every Sunday into my late 20s. Sometimes I wonder if I would be in a different place now had I been raised with the Latin Mass instead. I don’t think it can be overstated just how important reverence and transcendence is to faith.

I value Dr Declue’s comments on music- sometimes at a NO Mass I’m unsure as to whether I’m in junior school listening to country dancing style music or in church. It’s so distracting to have to listen to music more appropriate for a children’s TV show- why, oh why, is this tolerated!!

31:01 very salient point made here. In my experience and conversations, this is often overlooked or simply unknown.

I went to Belmont Abbey! Cool to see a fellow Crusader