Alvin Plantinga on Naturalism & Evolution | Veritas at NYU

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The Veritas Forum

The Veritas Forum

Күн бұрын

World-class philosopher Alvin Plantinga talks Science & Faith at a Veritas Forum at NYU, 2013.
Find this and many other talks at www.veritas.org/engage.
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Over the past two decades, The Veritas Forum has been hosting vibrant discussions on life's hardest questions and engaging the world's leading colleges and universities with Christian perspectives and the relevance of Jesus. Learn more at www.veritas.org, with upcoming events and over 600 pieces of media on topics including science, philosophy, music, business, medicine, and more!

Пікірлер: 41
@SomeChristianGuy.
@SomeChristianGuy. 6 жыл бұрын
I have never understood why there is an emphasis placed on mere Christianity internally (as opposed to a useful tool for evangelising seekers, Lewis book was fantastic), because far as I can tell all one has to do is fabricate varieties of Christianity to the point where the intersection could be so small so as to make the faith pointless, and it seems to me thay such a doctrine of mere christianity allows mankind to do what he is already pre disposed to, that is to fabricate what suits him where he is his own point of reference rather than an external and objective truth which would be the true expression of Christianity. This is to be very post modern then, a claim which affirms that there are a myriad ways to interpret something, which, though true, makes a pointless point and tells you nothing about the fact that only one interpretation is correct, but does tell you that the individual is perhaps attempting to evade the work of sifting through the myriad interpretations (not saying Plantinga himself is guilty of this or even holds this view).
@rtineigrihms8422
@rtineigrihms8422 3 жыл бұрын
So it's nothing but pagan christianity.
@SomeChristianGuy.
@SomeChristianGuy. 3 жыл бұрын
@@rtineigrihms8422 What do you mean?
@rtineigrihms8422
@rtineigrihms8422 3 жыл бұрын
@@SomeChristianGuy. Paganism/Heathenism is worship of false gods. Mere Christianity allows for religion that has the personality of Christ but is defined subjectively. Hence, it allows for pagan Christianity - christ in name.
@SomeChristianGuy.
@SomeChristianGuy. 3 жыл бұрын
@@rtineigrihms8422 Ok I see. Yeah I guess thats right. It allows for a Christianity where God becomes subjectively defined and has little to do with the actual person, thus its akin to an idol worship.
@rtineigrihms8422
@rtineigrihms8422 3 жыл бұрын
@@SomeChristianGuy. I see the effectivenes of Plantinga's Reformed Epistemology. But I find Bahnsen's revelational epistemology to be more akin to Christian faith as expounded from Scripture.
@eroceanos
@eroceanos 6 жыл бұрын
Well, if by evolution you mean ‘progressive creation’, there’s no conflict for shure. Decent with modification is not a problem per se, when God uses quantum leaps informing new kinds from former kinds, there’s a case to be made for this kind of progressive creation. The ‘punctuated equilibrium’ we see in the fossil record is congruent with that… but not with Darwinism. Plantinga is right to say that he could in principle have used a seemingly Darwinian process, but when we consider the data, He did not. Darwinism is almost certainly false and so is physicalism in general. Physicalism fails to explain ontological discontinuities such as a universe from nothing, life from non life and consciousness and rationality. The God hypothesis, Being as a transcendent Mind beyond space, time and energy, is a very strong hypothesis and as science progresses, the probability of God being Fundamental Reality, grows stronger day by day.
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
eroceanos there is nothing that suggests that any god has ever, or will ever exist. The only god that exists is the one you create in your head.
@freetruth80
@freetruth80 6 жыл бұрын
Mere Christianity is not biblical Christianity, it's incomplete.
@thegoodiemen5963
@thegoodiemen5963 6 жыл бұрын
freetruth80 Do you mean to the point that if you only believe in mere Christianity you won't be saved? If so, how so?
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
You meant that all Christianity, and monotheism is incoherent right? If you’d said that you’d be correct.
@Benjamin-to2zq
@Benjamin-to2zq 5 жыл бұрын
It was not not written to be biblical Christianity. It was speaking about and defending what Christianity is at a it's core. The central beliefs that all branches of Christianity holds to... Question, how do you define BIBLICAL Christianity? What is the contents of what you call Biblical Christianity?
@honawikeepa5813
@honawikeepa5813 5 жыл бұрын
Dawkins is a fool
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
Hona Wikeepa no, he’s not, he is brilliant.
@pjentermacmemes154
@pjentermacmemes154 5 жыл бұрын
What complex argument you guys got there. Truly out of my league.
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
@@pjentermacmemes154 HItchen's razor applies.
@sebastianberrios8607
@sebastianberrios8607 4 жыл бұрын
@@inpugnaveritaas he might be a good biologist, he is a really bad philosopher and his arguments are really poor, nothing close to scholarships. He hasn't come with a real and sound argument against God, or anything supernatural. His arguments for the most part are just emotional arguments O illogical and fallacious arguments.
@pimplahdon
@pimplahdon 6 жыл бұрын
WOW this guy plantiga says "decent with modification" does not contradict the bible..... in other words he believes he came from an ape type creature... he is a horrible christian and this is why people say the bible is false. i thought this guy was smart.. i was wrong... he is calling genesis a lie and Jesus a liar. Jesus SAID Matt.19[4] And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Mark.10[6] But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. and many.. many.. more..
@thegoodiemen5963
@thegoodiemen5963 6 жыл бұрын
Pimplahdon I'm sorry but I fail to see how the verses you quoted show that God didn't create humanity *through* the process of descent with modification. I don't believe He did, and starting at 7:20 you can hear Plantinga say that he isn't saying that God necessarily did it that way; just that there isn't an inherent contradiction. And I don't believe there is any. If I start a fire using a lighter and lighter fluid, you betcha I started the fire, even though I used tools to do it. He is not calling Jesus a liar and he certainly not stupid, even if he is wrong. Since when does a single error make someone "stupid," to the point that you must call them such? Have you never been wrong? Shall I quote Luke 6:42 for you?
@23Hiya
@23Hiya 6 жыл бұрын
Friend, the reason that so many people are unwilling to engage with the Bible is because some modern Christians have decided to try and read it as literally as possible. Christianity is a 2000 year old tradition and for 1850 of those years Christians had understood that scripture is more narrative than instruction manual. Read St. Augustine's Literal Translation of Genesis. He interacts with it as a story through which the holy spirit can work on people not as a list of facts to be systematized. I very nearly abandoned the faith because of the modern obsession with literalism. How can it be read literally when the gospels of Mark and John say that Jesus was crucified on different days? Or in Matthew when we read that after Judas has committed suicide the money he had taken was used to buy a potter's field to fulfill a prophesy of Jeremiah, but there is no such prophesy in the book of Jeremiah. Or in Mark when the disciples are caught eating on the sabath and Jesus brings up a story about David and says that Abiathar was the high priest at the time, but it was actually Ahimelech. The list goes on. Be careful before you light up other believers. We're all working out our faith in fear and trembling.
@blindlemon9
@blindlemon9 4 жыл бұрын
Pimplahdon . You, Sparkles, are in dire need of a new pastor, or, if you are one, you had better quit, prior to warping one more mind. Calling other Christians terrible is beneath reproach. I hold out hope for you, but not much.
@ricardoalmeida4719
@ricardoalmeida4719 5 жыл бұрын
He's pretty disingenuous and intellectual dishonest, especially when he talks about Dawkins and Evolution. Dawkins is an authority on evolutionary biology. Platinga is not. On his argument of Naturalism vs Evoltuion: His first premisse on the probability of our faculties not being reliable is utter nonsense. Evolution took out the people who didn't rely on their faculties. If we have those faculties today it is precisely because they were reliable and essential to our spieces. It's the same as saying, the probabilies of lions relying on their teeth and claws to survive is very low given evolution is un unguided process. Well, that's just dumb. They have strong teeth and claws because if they hadn't they wouldn't have survived (and evolved). He's probably the only person believing his argument, given how stupid it is.
@crunch8484
@crunch8484 5 жыл бұрын
I agree. The argument falls down at the first premise. I think there's a lot we don't yet know about evolution, but filling in the unknown with the "God of the gaps" isn't the solution. My hunch is that there is more to "same species" recognition, and possibly "suitable mate" recognition than we currently understand, and these factors, as well as pure natural selection/survival of the fittest mechanisms, play an important part in delineating subgroups into new species. Maybe there's a fundamental "belief", to use Plantinga's terminology, built into most creatures that draws them to others similar to themselves, since those with that belief would naturally have more chance of finding a mate reproduce successfully than those that don't hold that "belief". If the mechanism that decides "similar enough" or "not similar enough", by whatever measure it happens to consider, has a relatively well defined cut-off point, it could explain the "punctuated equilibrium" we see in the fossil record. Such a mechanism, once it has evolved, would likely remain in all its progeny and subsequent evolutionary offspring, accelerating future evolution and differentiation, so two groups of creatures, which could biologically mate and reproduce, averaging away their genetic differences, don't because some aspect of their perception indicates the other as a less than ideal mate. Thus, even if neither group has any particular natural selective advantage over the other, they would naturally split into two separate sub-species, and continue along their own evolutionary path, until biological reproduction isn't just unlikely or less desirable, but impossible.
@deandesune5665
@deandesune5665 5 жыл бұрын
You started with the fallacy of authority and continued by make false presumption which is based on ignorance. Plantinga states that evolution is survival based and not truth based, and you claim (correct me if i misunferstood you) that the fact that our faculties work well for survivability must also mean that they give us true information, so for example when our hands feel a rock there trully is a rock. But reality remains and we have definite proof that our brain is giving us made up information which isnt really true many times, for example colors dont really exist, but rather lengths of vaves, and our brains translate them to colors only because it requires less brainpower to understand, similar to when we humans use icons to understand apps instead of reading the entire code behind them. so because all of our thoughts are coded into us for our survival alone and we know already that survival is often in conflict with truth, there is much reason to doubt our ability to reason which led you to the belief in Naturalism. I myself am not an expert on Plantinga's argument but if you would like to hear the proposition for it, then there's a short video here in youtube made by Inspiring Philosophy which explains it much better, with cool music and animations. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rNaBZJByrLbdo4E.html
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
@@deandesune5665 Wrong. While Dawkins is indeed an expert in evolutionary biology, his conclusions stand up to scrutiny, as they are based on evidence. The fallacy of an argument from authority would simply be that because dawkins says it, it must be true. That is not the case here.
@deandesune5665
@deandesune5665 5 жыл бұрын
@@inpugnaveritaas He said that plantinga cant state his beliefs on biology because he isnt an expert, that is a fallacy of autority. But just so you know, Plantinga didnt make stuff up here, his view of biology is taken from a common view of famous biologists.
@inpugnaveritaas
@inpugnaveritaas 5 жыл бұрын
Dean you’re wrong. Plantinga has no evidence to support his position. His position is broadly one that could only be made by someone discussing things for which they have no experience or skill set.
@RussellSnow
@RussellSnow 6 жыл бұрын
He lost credibility when he had to insert "and women."
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