Everything is always profit oriented in this country instead of people oriented. Look at what that does to our healthcare system alone. Thank you Dr Baldwin.

NO WAY should these colleges be EXEMPT from paying taxes when our young adults are going into lifelong DEBT to get an education! Perhaps if the Education was FREE, perhaps this would lend to consideration!

Bravo! Dr. Baldwin is a whirlwind, puts his finger on everything wrong in university towns. Thank you for your great work, Dr. Baldwin, and excellent interview, Hari!

The concepts of elitism and privilege are foundational to our society. It's this narcissism that is at the root of almost all of society's ills.

It's not just service workers who are underpaid by universities. I was a contract teacher at a major state university in the Southwest. I was paid $3,000 per class each semester. Teaching a full curse load of four classes for two semesters I earned $24,000 a year with no benefits. When Obama Care became law, the university limited contract teachers to two classes a semester so that it wouldn't have to contribute. This halved my teaching income but didn't halve my workload. Since I had previously taught at least two sections of the same course, eliminating one did not decrease prep time. And I was made to keep the same number of office hours and participate in department activities, such as conferences. Because many of the contract teachers were married to spouses with well-paying non-academic jobs, there was little push to organize for better wages. However, there was a minority who struggled, teaching at multiple institutions and working low-wage jobs in retail in the evening.

Anyone who has been two blocks over from Yale has asked this question. How the hell is it possible that this city is so needy with this university in the center? This is such a great explanation.

This even happens at HBCU's sadly...this is the university protecting the brand, the endowment

I admire Dr. Baldwin's passion. Impressed by how much he knows about this issue (that is depressing af)

So glad Dr Baldwin brought these issues to the attention of the public.

I'm glad he can deliver these points in this tone. I'd probably appear to be exasperated in my delivery of these observations.

I love this program. It’s so refreshing. Thank you, Christine and PBS.

And Yale's endowment is $32 billion, with a B, dollars.

Wow did not realize Universities didn't have to pay property tax. Churches and universities should NOT be tax exempt.

There have been articles written of Yale’s Hospital’s predatory practices. 15 years ago I was taken to the emergency room while I was unemployed and I told every staff person I met that they were not going to take my house; I knew all about their practices. They looked at me like I was crazy, but I did not care!

I worked on the university campus in SLC during the construction and running of the Olympics there and it was hell on the community, it interrupted people's careers and studies for years. There are a lot of places that are taking in more than they are giving back.

This is the essence of scholarship. I respect this intellectual thought and i am surely buying this book

What a great conversation. I had not realized that this was what was going on. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. Has he spoken to anyone in the Biden admin about his thoughts and solutions?

"Hedge Fund conducting classes"

Will purchase and download this book on my Nook today. Let's see if the top 'talking heads' on MSNBC, CNN, FOX (ha), CBS, etc., rush to book Dr. Baldwin. Excellent discussion Amanpour & Company!

THIS WAS AN AMAZINGGGG INTERVIEW! PLEASE HAVE HIM BACK AGAIN AND/OR EVEN AS A REGULAR! ill be sharing this with my college clubs/college faculty/officials as well!

I've been around many different universities. I've never seen community partnership and shared benefits although the universities often give lip service.

The clash between Gown and Town has been an ongoing issue for 4 hundred+ years. You would think that the supposedly bright people in universities could have come up with some sort of a solution if they really wanted, so there is really only one conclusion in that they don't...

When it comes to fleecing society, Universities appear to be right up there with religion!

Poor Hari...you could see and feel just uncomfortable he was with some of the incisive answers Professor Baldwin provided. I don't know precisely what engendered Hari's discomfort...maybe he owns stock in Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? Or maybe he or one of his family attended one of those schools? Whatever the reason his discomfort was palpable. As to this business of higher education playing a parasitic role in our society I couldn't agree more. This goes all the way back to the People's Park riots at UC Berkeley in the early 70s which revealed a supposedly community minded public university showing total disregard for the community within which it resided in favor of increasing corporate profits. The small town I live in in Maine is literally awash in supposedly "non profit" money making organizations pretending to exist for the public good while in reality operating primarily as money making operations. In truth the "non profit"scam in America while certainly including colleges and universities goes far beyond those limited borders in their impact. A few years ago I was talking to the parents of two college level students and I asked what their children had majored in. The reply was that the son had received a degree in law and was working as a highly paid lawyer in Chicago. The daughter, on the other hand, had just entered her junior year at a prestigious eastern university. When I asked what her major was the father responded with some jubilation that she was majoring in "non profits." I of course thought he was making a joke so I laughed. Displeased by this the father asked, "What's so funny about that, nonprofits are the wave of the future!" To which I responded, "When non profits represent the wave of our American future we are in really big trouble!" A blatant, some might even say unbelievable, example of what I meant by that exists in a posh local summer community where the median income of the summer residents is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000,000+. To whit some years ago the summer residents founded a local "non profit" yacht club where they can keep their yachts. It of course pays no property taxes. The club also maintains an extensive fleet of very expensive racing sailboats used to provide sail training to their children...all costs of purchase and maintenance are of course written off! So in a community where year round residents boast a median income of $35,000 multimillionaire businessmen and trust funders get to write off the cost of their yacht club as well as the cost of teaching their children how to sail. Those wanting to delve deeper into this and other Ivy League scams should read Anand Giridharadas's "Winners Take All" which portrays in brilliant detail how those at the top of the heap are controlling much of what goes on.

This reminds me of the guy held at gunpoint by an officer on campus while picking up trash.

The university that I attended and worked for in Michigan is exceedingly corrupt and has an untold amount of power, when I was injured on the job, the university refused to pay me workers compensation. I looked up information about the local workers compensation bureau and was astonished to find that the lawyers/employees of that particular Michigan Workers Compensation Bureau had stocks in the university, they showed smiling face pictures of them noting their stock investments. The MWC denied my benefits after initially starting the benefits, then prevented my doctor from performing surgery 24 hours before the day of the surgery. I was then blacklisted and ultimately became a Targeted Individual due to Organized Stalking.

They college and university should be offering Med clinics, childcare, and legal aid.

I loved this interview! Prof. Baldwin, you have said all I have felt and surmised since taking my first job in NYC higher education back in 1997 and what I know to be true today through the lens of intersectionality, democracy, and economics. I look forward to getting your book and citing from it in my current dissertation's chapters. Namaste Professor and thank you... 🙏🏽☮️ Edit: And, my Chairperson who earned his doctorate from Toronto University in Canada many years ago, has shared with me, just as you briefly touched on, some of the positive socioeconomic differences of his higher education experience on the other side of the border. 2nd Edit: Just bought the Kindle version on Amazon today!

This is what a scholar should always sound.

He's right. I d id some training work with campus police in Baltimore. The (mostly black) police told me how they did not pursue (mostly white) students for minor drug crimes. Those same 'crimes' would have got their own children charged and imprisoned. And as for Johns Hopkins: it's in an inner city disadvantaged area and they are buying up property around it big time. Outside the campus, it's a 'food desert' with high unemployment and poverty.

Thank you thank you Thank You for this conversation.

Not just ivy League institutions but the city I attended college has several fine universities! One major parochial and another prominent university private up until the 70s. When the way of life in the region changed the academic quality was exposed and always there. These two universities bought hospitals large swaths of communities etc. I remember children from an adjoining community attending elementary school on campus. They used that for its teaching program. One university kicked out students from arts and business schools so they could designate it non taxable. Many colleges are anti- union . I visited the city to see family and moved back decades later. The disparities between the college communities and some others are even more than when I went to college. The steel mills, coal mines in the region were going down when I was there. Its not just Ivy League schools!

I continue to enjoy your presentations, critical analysis and information sharing. We founded one of the earliest groups in Harlem, New York as that historic African American community experienced the first movement of gentrification, led bu Columbia University and other upper West side Colleges searched for living accommodation. Ironically some parts of Harlem is now being referred to as another name. Universities have becomes landlords to their wealthy students displacing working class people and destroying historic Harlem as an African American community.

Gotta cover the salary for that vice provost of pencil sharpening!

For decades Harvard has been second only to the Catholic Church in landownership it might be first now

Nothing worse than sucking the blood of the surrounding community and being a bullying presence. Baldwin presents clear solutions for what can be done, and in these times universities across the country need to step up and do the right thing. Shame on them if they don't. Universities need to be made to do the right thing if this is the horrible game they are going to play.

Something I never thought about. Good work!

Grateful for this voice. Thank you for opening my eyes to this issue.

Duke and Durham, NC. Yes

Why can't more people think this way???

Either make university education nearly free for students and let universities keep their tax exempt status; or..keep university tuition rates as they are, but tax universities and redistribute those $ in student loan forgiveness/tuition discount.

So enlightening!

Everything this gentle man spoke about they were doing, pre-pandemic, at Merced Junior College. However, the campus police was seperate from the city police. But, Merced Community College had onsite counseling, and food drives for the community. Both the University and the JC are on the wealthier side of town. However, the city of Merced did raise housing prices in anticipation of expanding the University.

Harvard: The American Conspiracy...since before we were even a country!

haven't even heard what the Dr is saying, and agree already. Will be listening intently!

Fair enough, but how about churches that get a free ride on taxes. I'd imagine the total value of property of churches is greater than colleges.

This brother knows what he's talking about. He is speaking pure #facts! ✊🏾

More and more institutions in the US are moving towards Profit Motivate organisations if worse growing numbers of government institutions are cut back if not privatized. Money is the main motivating factor and less and less community mentality.

I visited Harvard several times and it was a community oriented atmosphere.... music in Harvard Square etc...people hanging out at Au Bon Pain.... I visited New Haven once and Yale was a locked fortress.....

It happens at Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, OK. Professors give presentations at local events. Very generous with their time and research. My Husband gave so many hours as part of his job of community service along with many many other professors.

Look at the University of South Central (USC) here in Los Angeles. They have eaten up the surrounding neighborhood.

This was a very good interview. I agree with the author.

University of Pennsylvania in West Philadelphia owns many of the surrounding buildings. You don't have to go much farther outside of that buffer zone before you get into some really lousy neighborhoods.

"People Orientated University that makes Profits out of Education, Excellence, Exploration"

A brillaint man. good report. I enjoyed listening to the program and learned much.

This is brilliant work.

Important research. Universities view themselves as enclaves of civilization in uncivilized poor urban neighborhoods. The same is true for universities in poor rural neighborhoods. And the poverty increases because most of the classes are taught by adjuncts making poverty wages and needing public assistance.

I always tested in the top 5% of the kind of things they like to measure. Intelligence, strength, job performance, etc. I could be part of "the elite," but that crowd seems like the very worst of humanity, somehow. I'd rather live among normal people.

They need to be taxed. Religious facilities, too.

Ohio State is doing the same thing. I find it funny how a college is now in the business of real estate but here we are. The fed's need to get the heck out the student loan game. This is exactly the cause and effect.

Wow ..I never knew this😳…..(We learn something everyday).

Thank you for this research! So enlightening!

Education Gentrification

Town and gown. Time for change! Lawsuit sounds good.

I was just thinking of Harlem in NYC with Columbia University and how they acquired acres of land blocks of neighborhoods all absorbed to the university

He’s right about Columbia University in New York. I grew up at 3250 Broadway “Manhattanville” Nyc, NY. The university has gentrified the area of Harlem such as other political forces. History lost!

This is true about Syracuse University. The housing around it was blighted. They bought it , razed it,and created student housing near downtown. They have grown out in the community.

He did that. He is speaking the exact truth about these major college towns and cities. I’m going out right now to get his book!

USC campus “safety” is the second largest police force in LA.

I fall asleep listening to programs on my phone and I wake and dose off catching bits and pieces, I woke up and started catching this interview and I had to pause it until I'm fully awake. I need to hear all of this probably more then once. I need to hear this more clearly.

University of Pittsburgh is guilty of lots of this. No mention at all of black men profiting...???

Great piece, this doesn't happen at just "Ivy League" schools, but all over the country. When the plant I worked at shut down one of its exits to rent out a parking lot to the local university, we were ALL forced to leave by driving thru the campus. "Escaping" the factory at the end of second shift was like running a gauntlet of rent-a-cops!

This is happening in every major city! Here in Baltimore: John’s Hopkins, University of Maryland, University of Baltimore...and etc.

Very eye opening. I wonder the areas in which some Universities have more give and take with the communities they are in. I wonder if Land Grant Universities are more beneficial to their communities and even States. Colorado State, here in Colorado, seems to be doing a good job through their Extension work and research in agriculture. I don’t know more than what I’ve experienced as a resident, but those programs are very helpful.

another very interesting series from PBS.

Visionaries will always be marginalized in a political economy driven by money. Money out of politics must be priority #1.

Finally, I can agree with something about this program. I'm 100 percent behind this great man. He sees with his own eyes. Blessings to this man.

He's really brave for doing this. A black male professor is highly valued by Ivy League/Prestigious Colleges and he is effectively ensuring that he will never be hired by them, thus turning down lucrative opportunities. I will be sure to follow his career path.

Great points and Mr. Baldwin is 100% correct! You could tell Hari struggled with follow-up questions due to the valid points raised.

Excellent!

Doing the same to rural areas. Much devastation with the "brain drain".

YES ! ! ! Thank you Mr. Baldwin for bringing this injustice to the foreground - Many colleges (not just Ivy League) manage endowments the size of little countries' GDP. If you're gonna tax the rich their fair share - the well-to-do industrial education complex should pay its fair share. Thank you so very much Mr. Baldwin.

Good work Bud!

He is right on the money! Great discussion. I work at a state university that is eating all the nearby neighborhoods, demolishing whole city blocks to build their parking garages and offices. They also cut our pay gave us furlough because of Covid-19...and I'm sure their endowment grew last year.

Been to Hyde Park area of South Chicago where there is Univ of Chicago? Police forces of Chicago, University of Chicago and one for Hyde Park (not even a municipality)

Preach it, BROTHER!!!!!

It's The big payback that these universities are "losing money". Free education will f-- them up GOOOD.

That was just awesome problem solving....

love it, keep it coming!

I just learned about Kelo v New London last semester in a law and public policy class for my MPA, but it didn't mention how it is intersecting with universities as large employers claiming to increase the public good through eminent domain but that are actually increasing a public good that is exclusive or which is inaccessible to the general public. The City & The University is a necessary dichotomy. The City cannot function like the University and vice versa. It is not a symbiotic relationship of effortless mutual benefit either but a relationship based on theory and teaching the hard truths. This sounds wonky and like it cannot be that the academic bubble is teaching people how to recognize and force submission to the hard truths of the real world--hard truths which have rapidly begun to include the 'other' as equally dignified & potentially profitable. However, this is the foundation of the broadly adopted Responsibility Center Management (RCM) budgeting scheme, which is a budgeting model that universities are using to increase attendance and departmental funding by making departments and faculty responsible for their own funding and attendance. RCM is described as functioning through adhocracies and hallway/backroom handshake deals and as an intensely political process. This highly political process of university budgeting creates a culture that exaggerates the connection between academic product and wealth building. (It is a very effective way to protect American ideals of subsidiarity from neo-communism in American universities.) The up-and-comers in universities are now a group held together by the pursuit of timeless ideals and a love for the greater good that is qualified by the ability to produce wealth and financial or monetary gain. This little white lie in the soul of the modern university demands diversity training as a therapy for a gnawing inauthenticity over and above the training's very real merit. While this sounds bad, by creating and sustaining this level of almost insane resource competition we can provide a high-quality education to greater and greater numbers of the general public. It is not bad. It is just a little less enjoyable. I think that we need both. We need to maintain a profit-oriented internal structure but it can only interact with the City and the public good under people-oriented, decision-making guidelines. He's right.

Great research!

If the universities are making a profit, why do they have non-profit tax exemptions? The Canadian model he referred to, was it capitalism-based, government-owned or what?

I have a love hate relationship with higher ed and he's hitting on all the points that fall on that "hate" side. I'll be picking up this book. Great interview.

I remember visiting Yale decades ago. The campus grounds were pristine while nearby city parks had weeds growing out of the pavement.

I think a few facts have to be refined: Power grids are not generally financed by local taxes ; many colleges pay fees to local jurisdictions in lieu of property taxes. The more appropriate target for reform is the structure of state and local revenues. Only a few very rich universities are "rich" enough to finance public goods beyond the fees they pay for local services such as fire protection.

Wow....this interview was so telling

Working as private corp but wearing public attire, enjoying all the benefits - gotcha!

Excellent interview 👏

Wow! I had heard previously that Johns Hopkins in Baltimore owns much of the vacant property in the city for “future development.” Unfortunately, there are no property taxes paid and very little upkeep, which becomes a burden for the neighborhoods where these vacants are located.

Love the words...love the 👓 too !