Thanks for the information! I pinned your comment for future reference. :)

But what about the white, non yellowed parts of the case that were obscured, e.g. the inside of the case? That would suggest a sizable influence of UV light to all of this...

I think the above applies more to the re-yellowing after retrobright than to the initial yellowing.

The misinformation about what causes the yellowing and what retrobrite does is absolutely staggering! It's a good example of how quickly misinformation can spread, unbridled, on many topics. One of the problems in this realm is that too many people seem to rely on their own just-so explanations for observed phenomena and then spread it in excitement, and then it becomes "true"; A good example of this is the claim that the yellowing is caused by the added brominated flame retardants, which is silly. it was a "just so" explanation provided with a bunch of chemical gibberish with the "formulation" of retrobrite, which is literally just hydrogen peroxide. The yellowing is a breakdown of the polymer and it will occur regardless. The butadiene chain of the polymer will oxidize when exposed to UV light. This causes yellowing because the breakdown results in Carbonyl radicals which form compounds which give the yellow discolouration. This has been known effectively since ABS plastic were first developed which is why plastics include UV Absorber, stabiliser, or blocker to slow down the reaction for consumer use of the plastic. "retrobrite" removes the yellowing because it is simply hydrogen peroxide, which is a strong chemical oxidizer. It catalyses oxidization of the carbonyl compounds into simpler, colourless compounds. The yellowing returns more aggressively after treatment with "retrobrite" because the oxidizer will also destroy most of the remaining UV stabiliser, absorber, or blocker compounds in the plastic. It's also not unheard of for certain UV Stabilisers, blockers, and absorbers to themselves react with the UV light in a way that causes discolouration. That might seem to defeat the purpose, but they are added with the intent of preserving the strength of the polymer, rather than the cosmetic appearance. (The butadiene polymer breaking down is why older, yellowed plastics become brittle over time, since there are much shorter polymer chains)

I’ll choose a new badge soon. I wanted to keep the original one on the original case. ;)

Thanks Chris! I so hope I can get some keycaps when they become available. :)

Thank YOU for making these cases become a reality. :D

Thanks! It’s a matter of taste obviously. I love the fact they made so many colors of the cases (at least for Kickstarter supporters).

I did like that transparent case, i also like the blue one.

Thanks Kim! Hope I can get hold of some matching keycaps soon.

Yeah, that stuff‘s expensive unfortunately. :(

Thank you! :)

Thanks! That’s why I got one of those in the first place.

I think it would be possible to use decals but very non trivial to get them aligned correctly! In the meantime, I have fitted a mechanical replacement keyboard in the A1200 and it’s amazing. New keycaps are also finally available now from A1200net, thankfully. I got my black set as well (which I planned to use on this A1200 but it ended up on my newly acquired clear A500 and looks awesome). :D

Definitely an amazing system! I was using my Amiga as late as 1997, when I finally succumbed to the PC world because of Microsoft Office being standard. And also things like DOOM and Day of the Tentacle. ;)

Definitely! I hope I can get them when they become available.

Yes, I think Wing Commander was pretty demanding as it used Voxel instead of Vector graphics. Better suited for the Amiga‘s graphics hardware. Although it played really sluggish on unaccelerated Amigas (I played it on an A500 originally).

We had owned an A500 ourselves for some years, but I'm not sure if we still had it by the time Wing Commander was released. The Amiga was always more my spouse's computer than mine -- something I regret now, as the SSI "Gold Box" CRPGs I played so much on the C64, I've learned since (from watching KZfaq videos in recent years) looked and sounded even better on the Amiga.

No worries, I'm late to answer, too... ;P As far as I know (if I remember correctly it says in the manual, too), the ground wire is only needed in certain conditions and for certain mainboard revs. If you don't get any weird effects without it, it is fine to leave it out. Doesn't hurt to connect it either. I have pristine video when connected via DVI but I had vertical stripes when I used a VGA monitor (through an DVI-VGA adapter plug). I couldn't resolve the issue but it doesn't matter much in my setup where it is constantly connected to a DVI monitor.

Oh, they are produced by A1200.net but sold through various Amiga resellers.

Yeah I'm really looking forward to icomp.de's 'A1200 Reloaded'.

I'm actually surprised nobody has made a keyboard circuitboard for commodore products. There's so many custom keyboard PCBs on the market now, you'd think replacement boards for these would be a no brainer.

This fellow in Denmark produces a kit, in small quantities: www.breadbox64.com/mods-for-sale/mechboard64/ - I believe Individual Computers also wishes to make keyboards eventually (not sure where I saw/heard this; could have been an interview with Jens Schönfeld).

That's fantastic then!

Yeah, it is absolutely amazing! Who would have thought (hoped for) this to happen back in the 90s?

Yes, I’m watching that pretty closely. It’s a very interesting idea. And amazing that stuff like that happens in 2018!

Yeah, I'm still waiting on the key caps from the second campaign, too. I trust they are going to come through eventually.

I hope they do it the same way they did with the cases and make at least some available to the general public instead of only selling to Kickstarter (or Indiegogo) supporters...

I just pinned a comment with some info on that. It seems not to prevent the yellowing.

Yes, I mostly have LED lights. I think yellowing is way more complex though. Search for "lightbrighting" and you will see what I mean. Actually UV seems to prevent/revert yellowing in some cases...

Very good German indeed! Ich hoffe, ich kann die Tasten bekommen, sobald sie frei erhältlich sind. :)

@@JanBeta Danke, ich kann nicht auf den nächsten warten.

I'd definitely recommend the liquid method for darker parts. The bright parts I did all turned out really nicely using the cream peroxide. Yeah, wire clamps might do the trick. Will try some workarounds for the problem. Thanks for the idea!

No issues at all. In fact, I talked to some far more professional folks than me about it in the meantime. None of them saw any potential problems with the ceramics electronically. The only thing that could go wrong is they get damaged (by heat or mechanically) during soldering them in and burn some time later as a result. These multi layer ceramics seem to be pretty fragile.

Cool! That is very interesting to know. ceramic caps are somewhat fragile yes, but once they're soldered in I don't think there's any danger of them getting physically damaged. Just have to be careful when soldering, not apply too much heat for too long and such.

If I do recaps (and it is not standard practice for me for Commodore hardware), I replace small elcos with small ceramic capacitors, because they are much more durable. We want the machines to last as long as possible, after all.

I hope it will look even better with matching keys. :)

@@JanBeta yeah the yellowed keys and the case are a bit of a juxtaposition. Black keys would also look nice I reckon.

Vielen Dank! Wäre eine Überlegung wert. Ich denke gerade mehr in Richtung beleuchtete Tasten... ;)

Very unlikely, the frequencies at which the old systems operate are much lower than most of the RF that is used by modern devices. Plus, the shielding was mostly introduced to comply with FCC rules in the first place (so to shield the outside world).

@@JanBeta Thanks for the explanation Jan. I was wondering about that for a while now.

discoHR discoHR: Second that! I searched too. Followed the supplier links, looked around the EU ones too. No Cases, no joy.

It seems it's just impossible to buy these cases. Sell out instantly.

www.amigaonthelake.com still has plenty in stock, and they ship world wide.

£110 To buy and ship to UK!

There’s a couple of distributors all over the world. I assumed there would be a list somewhere. Might well be most are sold out by now as it was a very limited number I think. :/

my c128 was never exposed to UV yet it got yellowing on it. the other donated c128 has no yellowing at all.

Just pinned a comment with some research results that came to the conclusion it’s not only UV that causes the yellowing.

Hope you enjoyed both. :)

That’s the plan. Although I saw on the website that translucent keys will look almost black because the plastic beneath is black. :)

How good for the plastic Retr0bright is, is still open for debate, but it doesn't eat away plastic. The hydrogen peroxide interacts with the bromides in the plastic, not with the ABS polymers.

@@danielmantione Just think I heard Jan talk about tiny bit being eaten away.

I've recently seen pictures of surfaces from retrobrighted cases and they were indeed a little roughed up compared to before retrobrighting. It was a very minor effect and it might as well have something to do with cleaning and scrubbing the case before treatment. Before seeing the pics I would have thought the rerobrighting didn't affect the plastics structure at all. More investigation definitely needed.

@@JanBeta If people use a nylon sponge that are usually for scrubbing pots and pans, then it might take of some material. Indeed. I can see why retrobright might be good for really light yellowing cases. Though extremely yellow, like in the colour of dark piss (pardon my language), then to me, a spraypaint is the only way. Just choose some nice colour. Like those dusty kind of green or blue. The ones used on 78/84 computer's. They look like a kind of millitaery green or blue of some sort.

I‘m using a TOM2 USB adapter. Work very well for various old systems and with many USB mouses. :)

I think the A1200 cases were recreated almost from scratch, too. There may be hope for the C128!

Well, the original moulds of the C128 were found along side with the C64 ones. However, it was reported that they were in lesser condition and I guess it also counts that the market for C64 new cases is much bigger, warranting the costs to refurbish them. Nevertheless, many people underestimate the C128 and think of it as a failed machine. While it had its problems with lack of native software, over 6 million of them were sold, which is far from a failure. There are quite a few C128 machines out there.

lol

Yeah, I’d also think that it’s because of different mixes of plastic. There’s a lot of C64/C128s where the keyboard has a checkerboard pattern where some keys yellowed more than others, too.

Haha, that would be amazing! :)

Oh, entschuldige! Ich schaue gerade so gut wie nie in meine Facebook-Nachrichten. Habe die Seite größtenteils als Spiegel meines Twitteraccounts eingerichtet. Hoffe, du kannst das Teil auch selbst gehrauchen.

Ja, kein Problem. Mein alter Tischbelagt hatte etwas gelitten. Da waren schon Schnitte drin und mein Sohn hatte sich dort auch schon verewigt. Ich hatte zwei bestellt, weil ich ja einmal geschrieben habe, dass es nicht schaden könnte, wenn Du Deine Schneidunterlage gegen eine ESD-Unterlage tauschen würdest. Ich habe zwei Werktische, die Matte muss ich nicht unter das Bett legen :-))) Wenn ich einmal wieder etwas Sinnvolles übrig habe, dann melde ich mich. Ich schreibe Dir in die Kommentare, wenn ich Dir eine FB Message geschrieben habe :-)

Haha, or the man who constantly swaps joysticks and has no room for storing them. ;) At least I didn't leave it on the floor this time...

Maybe I'll add something like that in the future. Would be nice to have the keys light up at least. ;)

I actually thought the same thing back in the day (there were a lot more people smoking, too). Only learned about the real cause much later.

How is retrobrighting risky for your skin other than if you touch the peroxide? Arguably it’s bad for your lungs but I don’t think there are any gases dangerous to skin?

@@JanBeta, hydroperoxide is good and bad. It depends on concentration. Less concentration great for spa, cleaning toilets, wounds etc. Higher concentration destroys tissue, bad for skin, explosive, great for bleaching paper etc. I become very dry in my skin because of the gas. But great for my lungs and resisting colds ^^

It was a very limited number so it might very well be they sold out already. I think they are planning on doing another run but who knows when... :/

Please see our reply to DiscoHR. Some cases are still available from AmigaOnTheLake, AmigaKit and Alinea Computer. Thanks.

Absolutely! I hope I can get some when they make them available.

Ein bisschen spielt bei mir auch immer die Entscheidung mit, was ich in den Videos gut zeigen kann. Diese neuen Cases sind natürlich interessant für viele Leute. Würde ich keine Videos machen, hätte ich vermutlich eher das Originalgehäuse behalten.

Ich nutze gerade parallel den CRT Monitor und den Flachbildschirm am Amiga. Die Einstellung ist im Moment eher auf die Röhre angepasst. ;)

Yeah, there’s a lot of bad paint jobs out there for sure. :/

I think, that nobody is every going to restore them. Who would buy an Amiga with a messy rubbed off layer of extra paint? What does the machine look like inside when the outside is already a mess? That's what I think when I see them. Very sad stories. ;)

I might still do that. I got the new case mostly out of interest (also to show other interested people) in the first place.

Made in China like whatever device you are typing this on.

@@JanBeta ha ha salty! Made in Germany fwiw

It’s a matter of taste I guess. Usually I’m keeping stuff original, too.

It’s a matter of taste obviously. Usually I prefer the original look, too.