Thanks for the testing videos. Now that you have a newly scored piston, do you think it would be possible to run the Opti 2 oil at 40 or 45 to one to see how it compares to the other oils?

Here’s a tip on installing seals. Apply a small dab of grease 180° apart on the seal. The spring won’t go anywhere.

Been using Saber for over a decade in all my two stroke equipment. Two saws, three trimmers, a backpack and handheld blowers. On non ethanol fuel and 80:1 mix I’ve had zero problems. The trimmers and blowers were built in 03 and have been used weekly for keeping up two school properties. I don’t know anything about high performance 2-stroke engines but Saber has been great for my stock equipment.

Port chamfers look fine, ceramic coating on the piston looks like it gave up. Large bore stationary engine tin coated pistons started doing this in the early 90’s. The tin process/finishing was the culprit. We started rubbing a flat file around the circumference of the pistons on the new skirts. I might suggest using a stone on the next piston. As soon as you showed the coating roughness, it was like a flashback.

Having ground material off the piston it's left an edge on the ceramic coating. I suspect that is breaking microscopic particles off the coating which is then grinding between piston & cylinder. Notice how the scoring is exactly in line with the area of the piston that was ground off.

I feel your pain! I’d run it until it doesn’t run anymore. It was a beautiful build.

Had no idea I broke in saws the same way you do. Good fuel and oil, short run for tuning and make sure it isnt trying to eat itself, go use it.

Very common to see piston polish, especially on modern saws where they just aren’t made as consistently as the older saws where there were much higher standards - the 500i pistons are terrible from the factory. 661 cylinders and pistons too. My guess is that because the piston is coated, it’s far more obvious and shows what appears to be scuffing, but is actually just polish on a normal ally piston. Nothing you’ve done wrong here. It’s a combination of tolerances, modern manufacturer and a piston bedding in.

Hi Richard, It looks like the Stihl cylinder is in need of replacement for some reason. You could give the cylinder a couple strokes with a ball hone if their is enough coating on the cylinder walls to see if it could be salvaged just for giggles. I have saved a few with a ball hone. I do like the oil testing you do. I have converted over to Honda HP2 now. I was using Echo Red Armor(with great success) until I saw your testing of the HP2. I did my own testing and love the way the HP2 works in my saws. I'm running HP2 at 32:1 and see no carbon build up, in fact the HP2 started to clean carbon off of a couple of saws piston crowns.

I use Saber too. Started using it in 1998 in my Stihl 021, Stihl weedwhacker and blower. Also use it in my Lawn-Boy F-Series from 1996. Good oil.

Thanks for the explanation!! Keep up great videos!!

Great job, Richard 👍🏼

Meteor needs to make a normal 400 piston

Great video Richard Tks million for your time . 😊

Thanks for sharing a great video

My uncles dirt bike engine guy helped me rebuild my ski doo formula 3 snowmobile. I asked him how I should break it in. He said ride it around for a bit, go wide open check the plugs and if the jetting was good ride it like you stole it.

Saber at 40:1 probably lubricates like regular oil at 20:1 since the viscosity is double.

Hey, this is a good discussion. After watching your videos on the testing of oil, I ordered up some saber. I’m planning to run at 45 to 1. Thanks for the recommendation on the eBay seller.

Bummer about the piston. The Sabre was phenomenal. I’ve never tried it but I can see how great it worked

I've took a lot of mx bike engines apart over the years and never been impressed with scamsoil 😀 but it works for some. I've use little red barn pistons in those 400s and work fine for tree companies

I've been breaking in saws by running a tank full at fast idle for years some have given me grief that ya have to run em wide open and do heat cycles ect but if 4k rpm for 15-25 min won't break in the rings I guess they won't even get broken in...

Hi Richard, always appreciate the work you do and information you provide to us. Damn, I feel almost as bad as you do after looking at that top end and piston skirt. I’ve got an old 034AV that has been beat up, put up and resurrected a few times and it does not look that scuffed. Yes, you know that I run Motul 800 2T in my saws, but I don’t think it’s the oil this time. Don’t get me wrong, I like the saber too at 40:1, but there is just something about that Motul smell. LOL. I’ve got a thought, and it’s not worth much as you know, but when you modified the piston itself you change the vibration dynamics of the system now and that whisker or two of weight reduction may be pushing you in a vibration characteristic that it was not designed to be in and that might be causing some additional movement of the piston on the cylinder wall. Since the saw is getting upwards of 14k in rpms. couple that with the customary M-Tronic unloaded 4-strokin and that might be just enough to be riding on a natural vibration peak mode of the crank making the amplitude of the vibrational movement of the piston worse. The Stihl engineers would have done the vibrational spectrum to see where the high points are and designed the components to stay well away from these peaks. It likely does not affect the system if you modify the cylinder port since that is not in motion like the piston, crank shaft and bearings. Other guys modify the hell out of the piston too, but maybe they just get lucky too. I think that saw will be fine with a polish and run your fancy Honda oil or Motul and see if the results are the same. Really enjoy your channel. 🤠

Damn i think its time for a top end! Cant wait to see it run soon!

Hey Richard! Sorry about the saw but for whatever its worth I really enjoy your testing with coffee first thing in the morn. My buddy always told me that shit'L buff out!

Looks like a classic cold seize. Always wonder about the magnesium as a piston material because of it's thermal characterizes vs. a good aluminum A sacrifice to the gods of "weight" I'm afraid. Might need a more sophisticated break in strategy.

I’ve been running vp /50:1 and have had really good results, but next tank ima try the H1R , after seeing ur test , n that’s what I used to run in my dirt bike for years n years , so ima run it for myself n see how it does

Aw man, that sucks, hang in there, I guess your cylinder might have some run out.

Get yourself some jb borecleaner, and a few gun cleaning mops,not paper swabs,but thicker mops.attache rod to cordless drill,be sure to remove any residue. It's basically a jewelers polish, will slick a gun bore right up,without being too aggressive.

That looks like piston slap

thanks for sharing all the info. switched to honda hp2 40:1 and really like it. saved one of my 661c"s the other day wile milling. i had an intake boot tear and lean out, luckily with the hp2 it had a great oil film and didnt score a piston and cylinder.

All my chainsaws get 32:1 mix

Ouch that hurt's when you see that in your own saw, she hasn't been right since that last round of oil test's. Maybe it's time to take a break on being the oil test guy, if people by now haven't figured out that you should run a high grade oil they never will. I know these test's helped build your channel and many of us love watching to see what will happen, by the way thank you for taking the time to do these test's but at some point... well it takes a toll on the pocket book. I watch your channel for a lot of other great content you put out not just the oil test's anyways take care.

Rich nice video😊😊😊 At the end of the day, they are just machines 😅😅😅

Ive got a bottle of redline 2 cycle racing oil... would that be worth using in my chainsaw and weedeater, hedge clippers, and blower? I plan to buy the honda hp2 next, or should i just go straight for the hp2?

So it sounded poppy in the cut and you backed off the timing a bit. Is that on your flywheel timing advance? I have a 661 that acts like that a bit but I never advanced the timing. Any ideas?

I'm wondering if the scoring is because you threw the piston out of balance by grinding some off of one side making it tend to slap against the cylinder.

3:16 did the same thing with a 592 a few weeks ago. Had the airbox totally back together when i found the brass ring thats supposed to go in the carb boot🤦‍♂️

I heard about drink can tin to install the crank seals. Can you try that?

Ever think it was from you hawging on the the skirt of the piston? Because the other side don't look like that...

Tough break man.

can you discuss 2 stroke Marine oil--and or TEST IT. 20 bux a gal is a big difference....but ruining a engine aint worth it.......

I bought a 25" Stihl bar and chain from JD-mml, agree he is a good ebayer seller.

Do you think possibly taking material off the piston to lower the intake port somehow caused more material to come away once the coating had been removed?

Silly question....that magnesium isnt supposed to wear away as part of break in? Like a moly-coated bullet?

Great info as always. Maybe someday you'll come across a can of 710😄. Thank you

About the scuffing: who knows if the piston AND the bore are perfectly round? 🤷‍♂️

Gutted for you🙉 I'd never have expected that that's for sure you're meticulous.

Oke mantap bos

12:45 What is the "dot" or whole down right from the sparkplug for? 🤔🤷‍♂️

Lil hard on break in wow .

thats what you get for running a thin mix for break in. would you run 0W-8 in a fresh rebuilt car engine? then run the pis out of it like you did with the saw? i have an old 041 farm boss and the manual for it and it says to mix your gas with extra oil for several tanks during the break in time and not to run it too hard, I think it said use 20:1 for break in and 32:1 for regular use after so many hours. I have also read other manuals that say to run engines easy during the first few hours of use so they break in properly. I have always mixed my gas at 20:1 for all my saws and never had any engine go bad and I have cut lots and lots of wood over the past 25 years with those saws. the govt tells them to use a 50:1 mix so there is less smoke, they dont care if your saw burns up. I have used all brands of 2 stroke oil and even used 40 weight diesel oil mixed at 20:1 when I was out of 2 stroke oil and never had a problem. rebuild it and break it in right with 20:1 mix then show us if its scratched up

do u know why people say u can't do base gasket delete on 500i?

once these cylinders have any scoring at all it will always be that way. u can doll them up, but once u run them all them lines will be visible again. need to start over with a new cylinder.

What the hell is going on there? My 400 seems to run just fine but I wonder if I should take a look to see if my piston looks like that.

I always double the oil for the break in

I can’t believe how picky people are about the type of oil that is being used. If the oil is rated they will all prevent wear the same. What’s more important is how the premix last when it’s stored for a couple months. If the carb diaphragms get stiff or too soft that’s when real problems start happening. Some oils will make diaphragms stiff when stored. Others like red armor will keep them in good shape after sitting for years.

Richard, do u think a stihl 400 can handle a 25' bar what oiling concerns.?

I would want to know wtf is going on with that cylinder. Or just blast it with emery cloth on a mandrel, soda blast the piston and see if the wear marks come back.

Man... that's even painful for me to see.

Amsoil 3.5 bottles and echo 2.6 bottles are short in filling l mix the two together and they measure 5.75 oz should be 6.1 oz😮

First😄

I've had mixed luck with saber in my 2 stroke lawn equipment. my Shindaiwa t262 does not like it. No matter what ratio I run it at it cokes the piston up bad and leaves hard deposits in the exhaust port even after tuning the carb. In Husky and Sthil trimmers the piston stays decently clean but still get those hard deposits in the ports. Grabbed a gallon of Red armor last winter online for $55 and been running it this season and it has cleaned the piston back up and is a nice red film every time I check around 44:1 and ports look cleaner. Smells better to me as well, Saber smells like burning plastic at times in my stuff

Can you get a P.O. Box Richard I will personally send a quart of saber down to nc once a damn week thanks loyal fan mark

Was the piston matched to the cylinder? A, B, C etc.

Have been annoyed at the seemingly over-enthusiastic nature of *some* Amsoil proponents, but have wondered if the stuff is decent.

I don‘t know if it‘s my browser but it appears some of the commentary has mysteriously disappeared...

So are you blaming the Amsoil Saber oil for this?

I wouldn't use amsoil if you gave me 2500 gallons of it , that shit cost me two brand new snowmobile engine failures , and when I took them to the dealership they took them apart they try blaming me, when the head engineer looked into it it was the oil, they took that oil and tested it on two others snowmobiles and they had engine failures as well so il stick to my klotz

I know that editing sometimes creates “false impressions” so take this with a grain of salt. When you were ready to use the saw to cut, it appeared you started it cold and just full rev cut with it at WOT from stone motherless cold. Maybe you had warmed it up before hand and it was already warm, but it didn’t look that way to me. I’ve read somewhere that cold start, full on WOT into a heavy cut is the worst possible thing for a 2 stroke saw. Heat shock or something they call it. Apparently that’s not a new cylinder? (First time watching any of your videos), you said you polished out the cylinder with scotchbrite? Shouldn’t a cylinder have cross hatching from the cylinder hone? Perhaps it’s a combination of polishing the cylinder with scotch brite & heat shock starting it - that’s causing your piston scuffing? Watching you assemble the piston into the cylinder, I could see some kind of debris (looked like an oil soaked wood chip) between the two top rings. Could that be what caused the scoring? Could it have migrated around and caused that wide scoring pattern? Occasionally you do get a dud saw straight from the factory. We have bought a LOT of Stihl saws starting back in 1982 & using them commercially in our logging & milling business over the last 40 odd years starting with my very first new saw a Stihl 034 AV. This year we got a dud 661C brand new that cut two rings of firewood off a hardwood log, before it jammed open throttle, wouldn’t shut off when throttle trigger was released, and even when the kill switch was shut off. Had to nose plunge it into the log to stall it out to stop it. Luckily my lads missus was filming the new saw start up, for his Instagram channel - so he could show Stihl what happened. They repaired it, new piston, rings & crank seal, sent it back. Filmed it again, this time it cut 4 rings before doing the exact same issue. Sent the video - they took the saw back & replaced it with new one, which has operated flawlessly since. It’s the first ever “warranty claim” with any Stihl saw in over 40 years. Stihl were good about it, BUT without his social media channel & video evidence of the two repeat malfunctions, would our treatment have been any different? 🤷‍♂️ Out of respect the two videos of the incident were only shared with Stihl & haven’t appeared online anywhere. What the “issue” was that caused it, we never heard. But it shows that occasionally a lemon saw comes off the assembly line even with Stihl.

I don't trust that piston.

scamzoil.. Funny to see someone tear down a engine with piston damage/scuffing and try to pimp that crappy oil at the same time

Motul 710 2t ????????🤔🤔

Novice Lumberjack says he had egged out holes for the butterfly pins which were letting air in. I guess overtightened carb bolts can also cause an air leak as well. His saw ran like chit though.

Weird

Stihl is garbage 😂😂😂 Husky till i die