I worked at the Budd Company from 1981 to 1986. The Amfleet 2 final assembly. I am proud to see the cars I worked on 40 plus years ago in person from time to time.
@CarlGerhardt15 ай бұрын
The one really not so good design feature on them is the inboard bearing, commuter-style trucks on them. They just can't provide a smooth enough ride above 80 mph or so. They are durable and reliable, though.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That must be a great feeling to have been a part of that. Thank you for your hard work, coming from someone who has spent a lot of time riding on these cars!
@paulj67565 ай бұрын
And railcar building hasn't been the same since Budd left the biz.
@lukethompson55585 ай бұрын
Am I the only one who feels that the small Amfleet 1 windows are more than adequate size, and give the cars a private cozy feel, as well as less glaring sun coming from the top part of the window (which you can’t even use to see out of anyway because it’s way above eye level)? This is coming from someone who loves looking out the window during the entire ride, and loves large windows in buildings
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
I completely agree. The Amfleets definitely provide a cozier ride. When I'm returning home after a long day, I find the Amfleets to be much more relaxing than the bright lighting on the Acelas. Both have their benefits though.
@thomasstambaugh51815 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly I have a strong preference for the NERegional over the Acela for exactly this reason, completely aside from the absurd price difference.
@centredoorplugsthornton41125 ай бұрын
Budd still had tooling from building the Metroliners, to build the Amfleet. Want small windows? The Pullman Standard and Bombardier built Comet series rolling stock at NJ Transit, MBTA, MTA, Connecticut DOT, SEPTA and Amtrak's intercity versions, the Horizon fleet.
@hirampriggott16895 ай бұрын
Same principle. Kids throwing rocks at trains, thus the small windows.
@justinstrickland53825 ай бұрын
It’s gong to be incredible to know the Amfleet will have a longer service life than so many of its predecessors
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
They were very solidly built! And we will see how much longer they have to go!
@paulj67565 ай бұрын
@@RailWeeklyAnd they still look great.
@thomasstambaugh51815 ай бұрын
One configuration that I remember and that I didn't see in your brief sketch was the business class cars between DC and BOS just before the Acela was introduced. I don't clearly remember the exact configuration (it was 30 years ago), but I distinctly remember very nice "Captain's Chairs" along one side of business class with pairs of comfortable seats on the opposite side. There was a Cafe counter at one end of the section (perhaps the other end was a food service car?). In the 1990s, before the NE corridor was electrified, I rode the trains that became the "New England Regional" between Boston and NYC twice a week. The northbound ride from NYC to BOS at the end of a long work week in Manhattan was a joy to relax in for my trip home. I rode the same train each week, and the crew was always the same. By my 2nd or 3rd trip the business class attendant behind the counter knew me and knew that I always started my homeward ride with a glass of red wine and two bags of almonds. As I boarded the car, he would smile and ask "the regular?" I would take my seat (always a captain's chair) and he would bring my wine and nuts. I loved how the dingy green walls of the platform would start to slide by with no muss, no rude orders to "fasten my seatbelt and make sure the tray table is in its upright and locked position", and -- most of all -- NO STRESS. It was a joy compared to a shuttle from La Guardia. I love riding Amtrak, and I particularly enjoy the NE Regional between BOS and DC. I much prefer the roomier seats, more comfortable ride, and more accessible food options from the Cafe car (in comparison to Acela). I don't mind the extra time.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Yes, the captains chairs you are referring to were in their Parlor Cars on the Metroliner train sets. I have no idea if they carried that concept over to the AmFleets as well. Maybe someone will know and leave a comment. I also rode many times prior to electrification. The train would change to a diesel engine in New Haven. I have quite fond memories of that as well. Thank you for sharing all of this!
@Retired88M5 ай бұрын
Back in the early 80’d my wife and I rode the Crescent from Philadelphia to New Orleans in Heritage cars and back but in the return trip took a side trip to Newport News out of DC in Amfleet cars and they really rode better than the Heritage cars
@alexhajnal1075 ай бұрын
I recall having encountered one of the Parlor Cars (?) out of Boston in the late naughties. One end was coach, the other business, with a snack bar in-between. I usually took the Acela but it was fully booked. IMO, the Amfleet business class experience wasn't much better than coach (you got free soda and coffee, yay?).
@thomasstambaugh51815 ай бұрын
@@alexhajnal107 Indeed, that's the car I remember. I agree about the Amfleet business class experience, particularly on the NE Regional where the most significant difference is that it's at one end of the train so that there's minimal aisle traffic. Some of the Amfleet cars have a cafe at one end, business on the other, and are also at the end of the train (these are run on the DownEaster, the Ethan Allen, and the Vermonter, among others). Those have bigger seats with more legroom, and there's a row of single seats along one side. The price of the upgrade on the latter is low enough that it's worth it, at least for me.
@alexhajnal1075 ай бұрын
@@thomasstambaugh5181 From what I recall, the business class seats on that train were all 2+2, the same as coach AFAIK. I think the seat pitch was about the same (perhaps exactly the same) as well. Not worth the extra (were I paying for it).
@paulne15145 ай бұрын
As a former truck driver in Philly, I understand the need for smaller windows. They teach them young in Philly. Rocks, batteries and even bricks. Was tough to drive in the city without AC and the windows almost all the way up, so I wouldn’t be hit.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That sounds awful. I'm very glad this isn't nearly as much of an issue as it used to be!
@michaelbujaki24625 ай бұрын
If yo think the Amfleet is old, check out the VIA Rail HEP fleet. They were built in the 1940s and still run in revenue service.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Totally! There was just a piece on the Toronto local news this week I believe. They are worried they might have to start cutting routes if they don’t replace equipment pretty soon. I keep thinking I want to ride the Canadian while I still can with the Park cars.
@Greatdome995 ай бұрын
1955. Blt by Budd for CPs Canadian and Ocean. Not the 1940s. Stainless steel carbodies are indestructible and VIA has converted all these to HEP. With new mechanicals and interiors, there's no reason they can't last forever.
@jfmezei5 ай бұрын
The transcontinental equipent inherited from CP rail was from 1954/1955, and rebuilt with HEP in early 1990s after the great cuts. (they are called HEP1). After the great cuts 1o 1989 VIA also got rid of all of the ex CN fleet and by the mid/late 1990s, VIA started to need more cars so went to Amtrakl to get some of their "heritage" fleet that was let to rot for many many years. VIA handed them off to CAD or other for a rebuild and put then in corridor service as HEP2 (geerally have smaller windows as indication and an interior that tried to emulate the LRC) ) Some of those were from 1945 and younger. @@Greatdome99
@michaelbujaki24625 ай бұрын
@RailWeekly if you book a trip on Via between Halifax and Montreal in a cabin for 1, then you're guaranteed to get a cabin in the Budd car. You can also book a trip in a berth if you book early enough. The dining car, however, will be a modern Renaissance car, as will be most of the cabins for two. To experience dining in a park car, book a trip between Toronto and Vancouver. Those trains are entirely Budd cars.
@lassepeterson27405 ай бұрын
And they are nicer .
@hirampriggott16895 ай бұрын
I remember growing up in Maryland, and around summer of 71, my dad worked in Baltimore, and he would occasionally take me into the city, and I had seen the old B&O trains parked at Camden station. They were the most beautiful things ever. Big windows, blue&grey stripes, stainless steel old Budd washboard cars. Real nostalgic. Too bad they were no longer in service.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Very nice! I grew up in Maryland as well. My father worked for Southern Railway, then for CSX before they moved their headquarters south.
@thomasstambaugh51815 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly Heh -- I grew up in Rockville and Wheaton (Glenmont). My father was lifelong railfan and the Southern was his favorite by far. I grew up in a house stocked with Southern diner china that he bought, and I think of him whenever I ride today's Crescent (even though it's nothing like it's namesake).
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
@@thomasstambaugh5181 Ha! Small world! My grandparents lived very close to Wheaton. And we too had plenty of Southern Railway china (and B&O of course).
@chocolatnoir11085 ай бұрын
I just love silver/ metallic colors on transportation stuff like this, just like an old song lyric : “fly the ocean in a silver plane” it feels beautiful and nostalgic❤ I also remember back then I had a train toy in the shape of Amtrak❤
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
Totally. It reminds me of the old American Airlines fleet too. Haha
@TrinityCourtStudios5 ай бұрын
Beautiful video, Mike!! To be honest, I think it is a combination of all three!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! Great to hear from ya! :-)
@ayindestevens61525 ай бұрын
Yeah I have to agree
@Jennifer-K5LA5 ай бұрын
If it ain't broken, don't fix it! 😊 I've seen these things run from coast to coast mixed in with super liners or trotting along at very high speed up and down the north east corridor. Also I once read an article in an old publication of trains magazine that said the windows were sized down and elongated in the new 85' Budd Amfleet design for needed overhead storage space to accommodate commuters and travelers carry on baggage and coats. During prototype testing it was determined that the view once seated was not compromised. Hope this helps.😊
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
That is very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing!
@erichhouchens37115 ай бұрын
The reason for the small windows in the Amfleet 1 cars is quite simple in fact you even mentioned it ... "Metroshell". In the early 1970's after the Arab oil embargo Amtrak needed new cars and they needed them STAT. Since they wanted a stainless steel car the first choice was Budd. At first Amtrak wanted a traditional square sided car with sliding doors and high capacity seating. Budd said it would take months to design such a car (no CAD back then) and then two years or more to manufacture them. Amtrak asked can't we get them quicker? Budd replied no .... but we still have the jigs at the Red Lion plant setup for the Metroliner production run. Here's what we'll do, we'll cut off the engineers cab, remove the pantograph and all the un-needed electrical gear/traction motors and have those cars to you in no time. Since they're basically non powered Metroliner cars we'll call them Metroshell cars. Take a look at your video with the Metroliner cab car and the Amfleet cars behind it. Notice how they all look the same? The initial order was for 57 Metroshell cars which with add-on options ended up being 492 cars. I grew up in the Washington DC area and as a teenage railfan attended both the local RRE and NRHS meetings. There I ran into several Amtrak people who were also railfans. They told us of plans for Amdomes, Amdiners and Amsleepers. The Amdomes never came to be as Amtrak decided to go with their version of the ATSF high level cars for the western trains. The Amdiners and Amsleepers later morphed into the Viewliner series with a more conventional square body shell. As for window size the main driver for larger windows is off all things stretchers. It's impossible to get a stretcher out an Amfleet I window. Current FRA/NTSB rules require a window big enough for a stretcher with a person in it to fit through a removed window. I'm not sure when this rule came about but the Amfleet II cars came with larger windows.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Wow! This is some fantastic information! Thank you so much for taking the time to type this out. I had never considered the stretcher thing, that makes a lot of sense. An AmSleeper would have been a fascinating thing to see.
@erichhouchens37115 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly Actually there was an Amsleeper! Amtrak used to run an overnight train between Washington and Cincinnati called the Shenandoah. At the time (mid 70's) the ICC required Amtrak to provide some type of sleeping accommodation. Amtrak didn't have enough Budd 10-6's converted to HEP so it created the "Amsleeper". Two prototype Superliner roomettes were wedged into one end of an Amfleet I car. If you will remember some Amfleet I cars were delivered in a long distance seating arrangement with dressing rooms at one end. The two roomettes were installed just ahead of the two dressing rooms. The train usually ran with three cars, an Amcoach, an Amdinette and the Amcoach/sleeper car. I did ride this train back in 1979 just before it was discontinued but both rooms were booked so I got the mileage in coach. Both cars numbered 22800 and 22801 had the roomette rooms removed when the train was discontinued in October 1979. BTW - I worked for Amtrak from 1977 until 1996.
@emjayay5 ай бұрын
Makes sense. Years ago I read something with the "like an airplane" explanation which I believed and just thought was stupid. It was probably made up by the Amtrak PR department.
@TheAZPro-yi8bu5 ай бұрын
Don't scrap them. Use them on local routes....forever.
@amtrakcsxmarcfan5 ай бұрын
Forever and ever and ever???
@digimaks5 ай бұрын
Use them as pipe segments. Wish they get scrapped the soonest. The most ugliest coach design among entire railroad world.
@Quasihamster5 ай бұрын
Loco-hauled is terrible for local trains. Use EMUs. America just prefers to have a railroad that's lacking behind Uzbekistan and what not, for nothing but the sake of nostalgia. That's how a nation fails.
@TrainStreet5 ай бұрын
No lol the amfleet ones need to be retired sooner rather then later they really are starting to show there age
@hirampriggott16895 ай бұрын
Perfect for NY City to Scranton.
@markiliff5 ай бұрын
~5:00 Teeny windows: That's 3 theories I'd not heard before. I'd always guessed that it was to minimise the cost of heating & cooling.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That’s another great consideration! That’s the answer I received when I asked why Metra and the C&NW used to make their commuter car windows green. Haha
@jeromewegand47855 ай бұрын
'EXCELLENT DOCUMENTARY AND NARRATION !
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! :)
@markmaiello91805 ай бұрын
Happy to see some Hudson Line Metro North RR venues and stations in this well constructed and educational video. Well done.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much, Mark!
@richardmosher36605 ай бұрын
I like the old Amfleet cars. I'll miss them when they are gone.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Same here! I’ve heard the new cars aren’t nearly as comfortable.
@Perich295 ай бұрын
they need to save these amfleet and put them in the museum.
@ElectricUAM4 ай бұрын
These cars are beautiful to look at, great to ride in, and considering how old they are and the performance they offer, are some of the best in the world. And I'm European :)
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
That’s great to hear! I’ll be riding on some European trains later this year. I will have to see if this holds up!
@ElectricUAM4 ай бұрын
It depends on which ones. The SNCF's Corails are great although boring. The older generations were better because of if the interior. Overall, they do a better job in general but that's because the whole Continent uses rail unlike us... Sad.
@DieselDucy5 ай бұрын
This is a GREAT explanation!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! I'm happy you liked it.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Just checked out your channel and subscribed! Who knew there was so much to learn about elevators! Fascinating!
@davidsherwin89675 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching and for your generosity!
@trainattendant5810Ай бұрын
Amtrak attendant here, with a particular fondness for the Amfleet cars! My second favorite equipment after the Heritage fleet. Working single level consists are much more desirable than Superliner(up & down stairs all day). Amfleet cars were originally issued with funky psychedelic purple & orange paisley seats & wall paper(a giant floor to ceiling wall across from the Amcafe!) Unfortunately the new Venture cars lack the comfort & atmosphere of Amfleet.
@RailWeeklyАй бұрын
Yea! Amfleet had those groovy interiors when I first started riding. My first ever sleeping car ride was on the auto train on old heritage sleepers and the full length dome dining cars. Those really were the best.
@stevencooper17715 ай бұрын
I learned a lot! Thank you.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
My pleasure, Steven! :-)
@justinstrickland53825 ай бұрын
Also, the new generation of lounges should have dedicated space specifically for crew. Its incredibly frustrating to have half the tables in the lounges of most long distance trains taken up by crew in the East
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Yes, I have experienced that myself as well (crew taking up lounge space). Some of those Amfleet II lounges have that extra crew space though. Not sure if that’s what it was meant for, or if those are just old phone booths? I have not seen the interior of a Venture Car lounge yet, so do not know if they have crew space.
@TrinityCourtStudios5 ай бұрын
@@RailWeeklyin the train crews defense; there isn’t really anywhere else to go on most intercity trains! We aren’t able to sit in revenue seats; since that wouldn’t be fair to paying passengers; and being in the locomotive might be fun; but we wouldn’t be in the body of the train to help passengers more quickly if they have questions, problems or need assistance. Hopefully they’ll come up with something!
@ayindestevens61525 ай бұрын
@@TrinityCourtStudios yeah that makes sense after all a happy crew makes happy passengers
@justinstrickland53825 ай бұрын
@@TrinityCourtStudios certainly see what you’re saying, but my main issue is that you’ll have five different members of the on board staff and crew sitting in five different booths taking up space where no one else can sit. Usually the conductors and ACs will have a booth each with their paperwork spread out. They could consolidate and try and take up minimal space. It’s very uncomfortable for passengers to be caring carriers full of food and drinks back to their seat because an on board staff member on their break is laying there with headphones on and their phone taking up a booth for themselves.
@justinstrickland53825 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly some of them may have been the old smoking lounges which were walled off from the rest of the car
@GABESTA5355 ай бұрын
The small windows aren't actually an issue. You can see out them perfectly. And the best part is that the smaller window reduce the sun glare that is terrible on trains with big windows.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Oh yea! I don’t really mind them at all. Although I will say that it’s a very different experience riding on Acela with those much larger windows. But you’re right, it can get bright!
@lars79355 ай бұрын
Just add sunshades??
@taylorsmith47585 ай бұрын
Really good overview! I'll miss them on intercity routes.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! Yes, they will be very missed indeed.
@AndreiTupolev5 ай бұрын
4:50The Japanese Shinkansen (introduced in the early 60s) certainly seemed to be designed to be as much like an airliner as possible, with small square windows and seating all facing the same way
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That makes a lot of sense looking at them.
@tonytins4 ай бұрын
We used to take the Metroliner all the time when I was a child. At the age, I thought they were floating because they were designed perfectly hid the wheels on the higher platforms. xD As for the windows, while I do think it is probably a mixture of one of those options - jet-age style, for sure - Amtrak might just have liked the Metroliner look, windows and all. Amfleets are the only rolling stock in their fleet that is near-identical to its predecessor. Not even the Superliners can claim that badge.
@c63w204W5 ай бұрын
5:30 Efficiency of the AC system can be a reason, for America being a country with high temperatures, smaller windows would mean lesser window area heated by the sun and thus the AC can be more efficient
@normandiebryant69895 ай бұрын
Yes. That and strength of the unitary-shell were my top two guesses.
@eottoe20015 ай бұрын
At the time, railroad people told me it was to look more like airplane windows. I would suspect the body design was for the same reason. Remember this was around the time of the Turbo trains and they wanted the trains to look more modern. They were a good design and held up. When you are in the cars, the window size isn't a big deal. They operated in the Northeast where clearances were a problem at the time.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Oh yes! The United Aircraft Turbo trains. I have a little footage of those that I am hoping to use in the future. There were also the Rohr Turboliners that are now languishing in a yard in New Jersey.
@eottoe20015 ай бұрын
Same thing with Rohr.
@chopperbillintexas58545 ай бұрын
Another great video!! Smooth edits and transitions.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much!!
@OceanStateRail5 ай бұрын
TL;DR: I agree with the window theories. This is a more obscure suggestion but before the time of the Metroliners the previous PRR EMU fleet at higher speeds would suffer their windows being ripped out due to pressure differences. Window technology like you said wasn’t as good as it is now so it may have been safer and cheaper to keep the windows small.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That makes complete sense. Rumor has it the new Acela fleet was experiencing the same issue though (a window got ripped out).
@tmcorbett5 ай бұрын
I’ve read the same - the windows on the Avelia sets are problematic.
@clintonwatkis11065 ай бұрын
The last explanation for the smaller windows is the correct one. There was a concern that with closing speeds between Metroliner trains exceeding 300 mph, larger windows could be sucked out of the car bodies. As such, Budd designed the windows to be smaller to prevent this from happening. The Amfleet I's were simply built off of the Metroliner plan, which was a wider, more luxurious car design.
@kevwebb26375 ай бұрын
@@tmcorbett won't it be better to go to Kawasaki or Mitsubishi for the E7 or series 700 as they are standard gauge.
@Lodai9745 ай бұрын
@@kevwebb2637 series 700 and E7 are wide (Width 3.33m for E7 and 3.38m for series 700 )
@squirrelbazooka80335 ай бұрын
Nice video, love the transition at 3:12 haha
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha, thank you!
@maciekkra5395 ай бұрын
The reason for small windows was to compete with airlines and the original Metroliners were called also "Ground Shuttle". But in addition to that, the very style of small windows was not new with the Metroliners. Small windows were first used 10 years before on 6 (six) self propeled electric units built for Pennsylvania Railroad in 1958. Those electric units were originally called the "Pioneers". When in 1963 more electric MUs were coming to Philadelphia area, they were called "Silverliner II", to keep it simple the railroad (PRR), renamed the original six "Pioneer" MUs:"Silverliner I", later in the decade (1968) "Silverliner III" cars came to Philly area and at the same time "Jersey Arrow I" to New Jersey DOT. All of these MUs followed that style with small windows. This is what was in vouge then. Last of the small windowed electric commuter MUs were "Jersey Arrow II" for New Jersey area, and at the same time "Silverliner IV" cars for Philly area in the middle of 1970s. Latest of that style are "Jersey Arrow III" built in 1978-1980 time period for New York-New Jersey metropolitan area.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
You are very correct. The small windows are very noticeable on a lot of that older commuter equipment. NJ transit just posted this week that the replacements for a lot of those Arrow cars will start being delivered later this year!
@adnyc825 ай бұрын
The third explanation for the small windows is likely the reason. I remember riding a train with Superliner cars in the late 80s, and they asked us to close the curtains rolling out of the station because of kids throwing rocks.
@ronrollo50235 ай бұрын
back in the late 60s/70s this was a concern cause the glass shattered easily but the amfleet windows were shatter resistant.
@jfmezei5 ай бұрын
1- Stainless Steel is not "lightweight". (outside the USA). But in the USA, the "made in USA" has basically required stuff made of steel to meet the criteria, so heavy, slow trains - FRA finally agreed to allow aluminium shells again in 2018. (the "strenght" aspect ended up being bogus after a number of accidents showed Amfleet cars wrapped around a telephone pole whereas in Europe, aluminium trains remained whole during derailment). 2- The small windows were inherited from Metroliners and definitely due to rock throwing. 3- Amtrak had to convert its "heritage" to HEP because when it bought new locomotives, they didnt have steam generators. And it allowed mixing of heritage sleeper and dining cars with Amfleet coaches on trains such as the Montréaler. (Superliners can't go to New York City so Amtra was stuck with heritage sleeping cars for a long time until the Viewliner cars). Amfleet 2 has larger windows (within the constraints of curved body) because they travel mostly oustide the NE corridor. They also have old style manual doors vs automatci doors for high level platforms on Amfleet 1 (but manual stairwell deployment). Makes sense since Amfleet II make fewer stops and don't need to have people get on/off all at same time and often patforms are too short don't allow all doors on train to open. The Airo trains are just normal siemens venture cars. nothing new. What is new is that they will have permanently coupled coach car attached to the diesel loco with half of it loaded with batteries and electrical equipment to drive the bogie motors directly instead of the diesel generator. One problem with the FRA rules is that once a modern train has been downgraded to meet FRA standards, it costs too much to bring an updated model and redo all the changes and qualification work so that one model gets re-used for as long as they can.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This is some great info! Thank you so much for taking the time. The Amfleets were definitely considered “lightweight” compared to a lot of the older cars which were actually know as “heavyweight” cars. They had 6 axels and thick steel plating. I got the chance to ride one on the Corridor once (the Dover Harbor) and you can really feel the difference in the ride quality, especially on turnouts.
@HSMiyamoto5 ай бұрын
I suspect that the Metroliner window design came from the aesthetic tastes of the designers and the agency staff that chose them. Remember that the Amfleet brought in Lexan windows, which reflect stones and other debris, rather than shatter like traditional glass. The combination of Lexan windows and synthetic rubber weatherstripping makes an Amfleet car a cozy place during the coldest winter nights.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
That is very true. It has never been cold on Amfleet cars in the winter, unlike in some other equipment I have ridden on.
@copper-crowned5 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure Budd based the Amfleets on the Metroliner because the last Metroliner EMUs had only been constructed about five years previously, so Budd still had the tooling to build the body shells (this "Metro Shell" you speak of). This would provide Budd with the fast turn-around that Amtrak needed for new intercity passenger cars since they themselves were based on existing intercity EMUs without having to convert existing commuter car designs (window placement and interior fittings) to fit the criteria. It was more for speed of construction and convenience that they used the Metroliner shell.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Absolutely! Time was certainly of the essence. They went from planning to reality in less than 3 years. I can't imagine any of Amtrak's new train sets will come online nearly that fast now! Look at the new Acelas for instance!
@ianhardy93755 ай бұрын
I say those three reasons for the windows design to be smaller do make sense, however, the amfleets in terms of compatibility have been pair with heritage units and the horizon fleets and rarely the bi level cars but only linked through the lower level
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Yes indeed! As long as they had upgraded the heritage car to be HEP ready, then the Amfleets could run on any train. They used heritage dining and baggage cars for many years on the east coast overnight trains.
@Rsr-lj9vf5 ай бұрын
I recall hearing from somewhere that people throwing rocks at train windows back in the day was a serious issue.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
It certainly was. Not sure why it's not as big of an issue now, but I'm very glad it's not!
@raymondmuench32665 ай бұрын
#3 is the only explanation I’d ever heard.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That was actually the explanation that I heard last! Haha. But I think that’s the most widely-accepted one.
@timl84065 ай бұрын
I was told years ago it was to make the windows smaller targets for rock throwers as these cars would be traveling through the cities of the NE corridor.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This does seem like the most likely explanation. It certainly limits that issue.
@KiingOfFlipz5 ай бұрын
1:03 this made me laugh sooo hard!!!!😂😂😂
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! I mean….
@AndrewTheRadarMan5 ай бұрын
Should've also mentioned the Budd SPV2000 railcar. Basically a self propelled Amfleet coach.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Very true. I know so very little about these. I would love to learn more.
@00Zy995 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly Based on everything I've read, "self-propelled" is not exactly an accurate way to describe those things. "Seldom-powered" is a better description. I remember seeing at least one sitting around at the old Budd Red Lion plant until the 1990s, shortly before it was torn down.
@pfsantos0075 ай бұрын
These cars will eventually end up in the usual hands like museums, etc., but I'm sure some private individuals will love to own one of them. Almost like the train version of the Airstream RV's.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
I think you just gave me an idea for my retirement home haha.
@Lodai9745 ай бұрын
At the same time (in 1975) France and SNCF received the first "Corail" cars (Coral) resulting from the merger of french words "Confort" et "rail" (Comfort+ track), still in service today, although the majority had been scrapped. They were suitable for 160 and 200kph and could circulate in the majority of the Europe. Equivalents exist in Germany, Switzerland, etc.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This is something I don’t know much about. I would love to learn more. Thank you for sharing!
@Lodai9745 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly Wikipedia with google trad for name search,and Ytube for wiewing. I make this for foreign trains
@Hemond15 ай бұрын
As others have said, the Amfleet windows are NOT small. On the inside, seated, they are plenty big, you see the full expanse of the countryside.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
Very true! As long as you have the window seat, the views are more than adequate.
@wonderpotato5 ай бұрын
I think the vandalism hypothesis of the small windows makes sense. But also the overhead luggage racks are pretty ample and start immediately above the windows so they may have sacrificed window height for increased luggage space. Other thoughts of mine are the small windows allow more insulation in the walls, and less overheating or over brightness inside on the sunny side. This keeps the interior a comfortable light level whether some travelers are sightseeing or sleeping. If you’re sitting next to the windows the height doesn’t affect your view of the passing scenery as much as I thought it would when I first boarded one of the trains.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This is all very true. Even though they are noticeably small, they don’t seem to obstruct the view (as long as you have a window seat).
@pigeon_the_mighty5 ай бұрын
Great video! Would love to see the AmClub layout and those other layouts you mentioned!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! I tried to find them but I was unable. I remember the dinette and lounge setups. I never personally rode in one of the club cars though. If anyone else has any info on this, some links would be appreciated!
@chrispontani60595 ай бұрын
Why are the windows so small? Look at what they replaced and what other trains were being built at the time. GE Silverliners/Arrows. Budd Metropolitan and Cosmopolitan. They all had small windows. They complimented the existing fleet of the LIRR and what became Metro North, for example. It was the style of the time.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
So maybe there is some proof to back up the “jet-age style” option after all. You’re right, they definitely weren’t outliers.
@MichaelfromtheGraves5 ай бұрын
Love your videos!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much!
@farmerdave79655 ай бұрын
The windows are tiny to keep you from escaping.
@interstellarphred5 ай бұрын
Airplane windows are even smaller
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! That’s a dark angle I didn’t consider! 😬
@jovetj5 ай бұрын
LOL! In the process of a wreck, prevention of escape is important. One doesn't want to be ejected through a window!
@80stvthemes5 ай бұрын
re the window size - Glancing at the Metroliner wiki - in the 60s the federal govt was working with PRR on the car design. The feds wanted a 160mph capability to beat the Shinkansen. PRR wanted a 125mph design. The feds won, and they were over engineered to 160mph with design tradeoffs. Note that Amfleet II cars have larger windows than Amfleet 1 so the size used for Metroliner/Amfleet 1 wasn't required for the curved body or chassis. My guess is the smaller windows were a compensation for the 160mph design speed not a rock throwing guard. Also noted in the wiki is in tests and early runs Metroliners sucked windows off older trains they passed on adjacent tracks.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Apparently they are having some of the same window issues with the new Acelas as well. Looks like some old issues are still just as hard to solve today.
@trainsplanesmore5 ай бұрын
I took a ride on the Pacific Coastliner newer cars one direction, then took a ride in a traditional AmFleet the other direction. The AmFleet was SO MUCH better!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Makes sense to me! I like those double decker surfliner cars though. The only thing is taking luggage up those narrow staircases!
@Island_Line_Rail_Productions5 ай бұрын
I love the Amfleet cars. Going to be a sad day when they are no longer running on the Vermonter and Ethan Allen Express. Something about a shiny clean car in the sun is always nice to see. Same with American's unpainted metal with the stripes. Now its a less interesting paint job
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Agreed! I love the stainless steel look.
@johntitterton48405 ай бұрын
National Railroad Hall of Fame website has taped video with Paul Reistrup, President if Amtrak, explaining the rationale behind his decision to buy the cars and why the fleet size was an odd number. Price per car was cheap looking back from now. Small windows, adopted by non-Amtrak commuter cars built around the same time, was because of line side rock throwers.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That's wonderful! I'm going to have to check that out. Thank you for letting me know!
@hexazalea17935 ай бұрын
I meant they’re Budd’s so the solution is to treat them like the B-52 and keep them in eternal service. Put them on low traffic lines… also build more lines. With maintenance they can and will outlive us all.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Agreed. Even though Amtrak is getting a bunch of new cars soon, it would be unwise to retire all of these.
@sernajrlouis5 ай бұрын
Great video
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you! So glad you enjoyed!
@DavidMGeorgia5 ай бұрын
You know, and you’re opening line you talked about the AmCam coaches, I have to say is a lifelong Amtrak rider. I’ve never heard that term.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Oh yea! AmCan and AmTube! Quite prolific terms.
@phillydogsarmagameplay5 ай бұрын
The floors are sticky in the new Siemen cars! 😮😂
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! I think that’s more a function of snacking passengers than bad design.
@cliffordporteriii66255 ай бұрын
Do not get rid of them. I’ve been riding and working on them since they were built. They’re tanks. Budd built the best. 👍🏽😎🇺🇸🚃🚃🚃
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Hopefully they do keep a good bit of them in operation... especially if they are planning to add new routes and frequencies. They are going to need all the equipment they can get!
@happyburger235 ай бұрын
IIRC, Mexico now owns a few Amfleets
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That is true! I had a note about including that in this video, but I wasn’t able to locate and pictures or footage that I had the rights to. Haha
@SandBoxJohn5 ай бұрын
The windows are small because the car bodies are of a monocoque construction design. Site down the outside of an Amtrak Amfleet car, notice how the car body curves upwards at the middle of the car. When fully loaded with passenger and their belonging that upwards curve is smaller. The car body carries the weight of the interior furnishing and the passengers aboard them. Legacy passenger cars were boxes bolted to the deck of a flatcar that did not flex when loaded.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This is really interesting. I didn’t know this. I’m definitely going to be looking for this now. Thank you for sharing!
@SandBoxJohn5 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly Upwards curve clearly visible in this clip from your video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fbmAgpBnnrnDZ4U.htmlsi=as3qE5lj6yA2c00Q&t=337
@stanislavkostarnov21575 ай бұрын
the bigger the window, the harder to cool the train in summer... always thought that's the reason
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That could absolutely be part of the reasoning as well! Electric Air conditioning on trains was still relatively new at the time. The steam heated cars would have steam injector air conditioners. These were some of the first cars to have electric compressor air conditioners.
@stanislavkostarnov21575 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly certainly, here in Israel, you see windows get bigger as the Air-Cooling Units get more powerful... from the oldest modified Chrysler models to the newest Siemens on the Jerusalem Express, the difference is very clear...
@jeremyjohnson4575 ай бұрын
Out of LAUPT, Amtrak uses the amfleet 1 for excursion service
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Definitely! I have seen them on excursions, and sometimes they have a set running on the Surf Line.
@Perich295 ай бұрын
The Amfleet are like tanks on railway.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
They really are! The Amfleets were very well-built! That's why they have lasted so long!
@WA1LBK5 ай бұрын
Regarding the small windows on Amfleet cars, I’ll definitely go with option 3, “Passenger Safety”, having personally been sitting behind an Amfleet window that got “rocked” by a batch of teenagers as our train (inbound to NYC on former New Haven RR trackage) in the Oak Point area, around the start of the upgrade approach to the Hell Gate bridge. Thank God for Lexan windows! (Had the rock come through, it would have struck me in my right temple! 😢). This was sometime in the late 1970’s ~ early 1980’s.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Wow! So glad that this isn’t the huge problem that it used to be.
@haweater15555 ай бұрын
Although not operated by Amtrak, the related SPV2000s deserve a mention. Also built in the Metroshell shape, they were self-propelled Diesel Multiple Units that Budd built as a successor to the classic RDC. Only bought by two NYC area commuter fleets, they proved to be reliability bombs and old RDCs often substituted. Soon after their engines were removed to turn them into plain locomotive hauled coaches.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Yea, someone else mentioned those as well! I’m aware of them, but I know very little about them! Thinking of doing an episode on Budd RDCs… those might be a good thing to include!
@andrelukin63645 ай бұрын
Last week I was on the train from Boston to NYC which had these cars with small windows. What a terrible ride! Lots of annoying mechanical noises crappy doors in some cars. They definitely needed to be replaced a long time ago, like 20 years ago or so.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Although these are great cars, I have had similar experiences. On one cold day on the corridor last month, the end door kept opening on every curve, blasting cold air into the car. I wore my coat the whole 3 hour ride! haha
@szabados19805 ай бұрын
4:13 There's no need to overthink it. They weren't meant to be windows but embrasures.
@FORTRAN4ever5 ай бұрын
Siemens Venture car has such a drab exterior appearance. It would be nice if it had some kind of fluted sheetmetal.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
I love the fluting on these as well.
@LancesLens5 ай бұрын
Subbed Marietta, Ga.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! Are you a Southern Railway fan? Hoping to get a video together on the Crescent in the future.
@kanchanananayakkara89595 ай бұрын
Informative and enjoyed it..subscribing from Dubai..😊 Cheers!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Welcome aboard! Thank you!
@00Zy995 ай бұрын
Technically speaking, I think that Amtrak did take on a few heavyweight coaches such as PRR P70s for a short time when they first started up. Before they could start moving equipment around between predecessor railroads, some P70s were used in NEC service, simply because Penn Central (and PRR before them) couldn't afford replacements.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Absolutely. Amtrak definitely cherry-picked the best and newest equipment from each predecessor railroad for their day-one operations. It definitely became a mess when equipment started moving off their "home roads" and maintenance crews in separate parts of the country weren't familiar with how different equipment operated. Amfleet went a long way towards standardizing maintenance.
@diddy56785 ай бұрын
The few things wrong with the coaches were the vestibules and clogged drains on the air conditioners. In winter, snow and ice would infiltrate the vestibules and sometimes the coaches. In summer, the AC's could start leaking from the ceiling.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Are you referring to the Amfleets or the Heritage coaches that they replaced?
@diddy56785 ай бұрын
Amulets@@RailWeekly
@t1m3f0x5 ай бұрын
The Amfleets were based on the Metroliner because no one was building new Passenger Cars for the North American market, but the Budd company still had the tooling for the Metroliner. The windows are the size they are because that was the size of the windows on the Metroliners.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
You are very correct, the Mertoliners were absolutely the best choice for something off-the-shelf. But Pullman Standard was still in business at this time building passenger cars too. In fact, they built the first order of Superliners after this. I explored it a little more in this video…. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/btB9a5eA0sync2Q.htmlsi=BiBKFhhmjMqjYnzL
@ZEZERBING5 ай бұрын
I've been trying to get a job with Amtrak. It's a very difficult process.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
I have heard the same thing. I know several people who have submitted resumes. Only one that I know of had any luck.
@willswanderings69125 ай бұрын
Number4 reason for small windows. Not as likely to lose the bodies through broken/missing windows in a derailment.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That is probably very true!
@AndreiTupolev5 ай бұрын
Very comparable to British Rail's Mk 3 stock, which entered service at pretty much exactly the same time and some are still in service today
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
I will actually be filming this year in the UK. Any idea where they are operating currently?
@AndreiTupolev5 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly they're (that is, High Speed Trains (HSTs)) are still in use in Scotland on most longer routes from Glasgow and Edinburgh for a while yet
@carlsmith55455 ай бұрын
Amtrak is so far behind the far more advanced countries of the far east and Europe. Highspeed bullet trains and maglev super train technology, the new american dream....
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
I’m excited to check out some of those European trains later this year. Maybe I can do a video on how they compare… 🤔
@garryferrington8115 ай бұрын
Maybe all of the windows should be covered over.
@Mike__B5 ай бұрын
There's an easier solution to the smaller windows. Larger windows inside takes up valuable real estate where you can put things, like a table, or the air vents, and at the end of the day there's nothing too small about the windows from the person sitting in a chair that is 1 to 3 feet away from them.
@threeninelover5 ай бұрын
I feel the urge to invest into a personal amfleet car in my backyard
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
You could start AmBnB!
@doctorhabilthcjesus46105 ай бұрын
Maybe the windows are so small for better thermal insulation.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
This is definitely a side benefit!
@himbourbanist5 ай бұрын
I've also heard the rocks theory about the small windows. Pretty interesting that that was such a problem in the latter half of the 20th Century but you never hear about it now. I wonder how / why that changed
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
It definitely has decreased a lot. But that accident that happened in Philly (Frankford Junction) was attributed to rocks being thrown at a train and thus distracting the engineer. It’s an age old problem I’m afraid.
@himbourbanist5 ай бұрын
oooh yeah that's the big notorious one, just listened to a 'Well There's your Problem' on it. Pretty sure the new Siemens cars have bigger windows which I'm excited for@@RailWeekly
@socalpal84165 ай бұрын
I once took the westbound Amtrak to California. As we pulled into Albuquerque, NM our train was literally attacked by young barrio hoods that pelted us with with a barrage stones. We were fine of course but I was certainly shocked. I support the safety theory, #3.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
That’s very disconcerting! One time on the Capitol Limited someone wedged a stop sign between the rails. Luckily it was just a short delay. They could have done serious damage or worse! Sorry that happened to you!
@collectioneur5 ай бұрын
Pelted with stones? Here it would be on the national news and no stone would be left unturned until the youth responsible were arrested...
@socalpal84165 ай бұрын
@@RailWeeklyThanks but don't get me wrong.....I love Amtrak. One of the best vacations I've had was when we rented the Family Cabin and made a complete loop around the country. I want to do it again but this time, I'm trying to get the kids to pay for everything (not making much progress yet.) Good video mate.
@AndrewTheRadarMan5 ай бұрын
4:57 The N700 Shinkansens have the same affect by having tiny Jet style winodws too but they actually go airplane speeds.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! Maybe we will have that in the US one day.
@Lodai9745 ай бұрын
@RailWeekly Technically, in terms of train you already have it (the Acela 2 can go at 360kph, even the Acela 1 could go fast) but it is the infrastructure that is not keeping up
@hybridsnowleopard5 ай бұрын
Same with airplane windows.
@denzzlinga5 ай бұрын
I think the windows are that small, because Budd just converted the carbody of the Metroliner EMUs to become passenger cars in an as cheap as possible way = without changing anything that doesen´t need to be changed.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
You’re absolutely right. Just as someone else mentioned, time was of the essence when acquiring these cars. Modifications would have required additional time and testing.
@yingli31205 ай бұрын
Yea I agree with you if they are old just restarate them
@hawktb95 ай бұрын
People call those AmCans... I call them Sausage Tubes. ;)
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! So many good nicknames for these!
@ArminSchannuth4 ай бұрын
I heard that the head Amtrak had an airline background.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
That’s true. Several of their presidents have come from airline backgrounds.
@judestefanik31455 ай бұрын
i would like to believe that if amtrak never formed then the amfleets would still end up being designed since they're literally just cabless metroliners
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
You’re probably right. In an alternate universe we would be riding these on the Pensy today!
@physiocrat71435 ай бұрын
The British Mark 1 cars have curved sides and large windows with flat glass. There is a transom ie a 3ft lower portion and 1ft upper portion with sliding ventilators.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
I'm not completely familiar with those. I will be filming in the UK soon and will have to keep an eye out for those. Thank you! :)
@physiocrat71435 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly This stock is only on the museum railways and steam specials these days.
@70stvtool5 ай бұрын
I would ride Amtrak more if more routes were available. When I lived in NYC I rode it almost every weekend to Boston Philadelphia and DC. The Acela was a dream. Now that I’m in Atlanta. I have to fly everywhere.
@RailWeekly4 ай бұрын
Yea, it really is unfortunate that only one Amtrak train goes to such a large city. Atlanta could really benefit from more service!
@HamishG1995 ай бұрын
You should do what they do in Britain and put them on Heritage Railways
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
It remains to be seen if any heritage railways take these. A lot of them are based on sight seeing and scenic rides… the small windows don’t really lend themselves well to that type of operation. Thank you for watching!
@JPaul605 ай бұрын
They wanted small windows so people on the outside couldn't see how few people are really on the trains.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Haha! That's one possibility!
@abenm6135 ай бұрын
If the reason is the circular shape of the Amfleets, how come the windows on Viewliners, Superliners and Horizons are also relatively small? If the reason is the airplane-style design, how come the Heritage cars, too, have small windows (at least in comparison with European trains)? Therefore, the theory of stone-throwers being the reason for small windows seems most realistic of all three. First, it was seemingly unique to North America, and, secondly, it pre-dated Amtrak.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Well I don't know enough to say with any certainty, but on the Viewliners and Superliners, I would assume the smaller windows would be needed because there are two rows! They are definitely larger than Amfleet windows though. Same with most heritage cars I have ridden on. I rode in four different historic cars on Amtrak last year, and the windows were absolutely larger. That's certainly not the case with ALL pre-Amtrak cars. The Slumber Coaches are a good example of tiny windows...
@abenm6135 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly, on Amfleet II the windows are the same size as those on Superliners as well as the main (lower) windows on Viewliners. As for two rows, this feature is unique to Viewliners, though Superliner sightseeing lounges have something similar (but those lounges have absolutely large windows in spite of that). And the rest of the Superliner fleet don’t have double row of windows. I’m not familiar with all Heritage fleets, but the sleepers that were used on the Three Rivers from 1999 to 2001, and later as crew dorms on all single-level trains, their windows are even smaller than on Amfleet II. And the Hi-Levels inherited from Santa Fe have windows very similar to those on Superliners and Amfleet II. But all of those windows (except, perhaps, the sightseeing lounges on Superliner trains) are smaller than those on European trains.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
@@abenm613Yes exactly, Amtrak was running some slumber coaches on the Three Rivers for a while. Those were the ones I was referring to. Very small windows on those. I'll be doing some filming in Europe this spring. I'll definitely be paying close attention to the windows now!
@abenm6135 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly, the cars used on the Three Rivers in 1999-2001 were not slumbercoaches; they were full-fledged sleepers, with single-occupancy roomettes and double-occupancy bedrooms.
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
@@abenm613 I thought they had those single-occupancy upper/lower staggered rooms though. No?
@uk-martin49055 ай бұрын
I've just come across your channel. I wish we had an operator with the style and class of Amtrak here in the UK. I am a fan of Budd products in general, whether on the NY subway (sadly no longer in service now, I think) or Amtrak. Really enjoyed this video and the photography; you have a new subscriber!
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for subscribing! I plan to have some UK content this year as well!
@HIDLad0015 ай бұрын
The windows were huge to me. That’s because I was coming from plane windows lol
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
Yes! It’s an upgrade from an airplane cabin in every way!
@wizard_pirate_90855 ай бұрын
They should have a phone booth thing still. For privacy
@RailWeekly5 ай бұрын
I think some of the Amfleet II Cafe cars still have the booth. I don't think they have doors though.
@wizard_pirate_90855 ай бұрын
@@RailWeekly huh. I havent seen one but it would be nice to have a place to take a phone call.