*Is the echo system too grindy?* Getting the echoes: no 😊 Getting their resources: *YES* 💀

In my opinion they should add a quick access button to quickly view any echo you absorb in the overworld so you dont have to go through the characters and menu every single time to check if you finally got the right main stat.

Honestly, farming for echoes is just fine... what I hate abt the echo system is how hard it is to gather resources to level them up. I'm honestly not bothered if I don't get a good Dreamless mainstat even if I've farmed for 2 hours because at least I know I can grind my way to get something good. But you can't really "grind" exp materials for echoes since most of its sources are locked behind waveplate consumption, which takes either time or valuable resources (astrites = money)

Another positive I want to mention: farming echoes makes you run around the world more and in turn you might find a chest or minigame you might be missing. This will likely also hold true for new regions coming out, incentivizing the player to go out into the world.

They also need to make it so the lower tuners can be converted to the gold ones

i cannot believe the game has only been out for a little over two weeks to me it feels like it’s been MONTHS with all the chaos that’s been happening since release lmao

They should also allow us to convert tuners from a lower quality to a higher one. I currently has 1k+ Blue Tuners and like 900 Purple tuners that will not see as much usage, if at all, and regarding purple tuners, I'll just be getting more and more with time because Tacet Fields drop them constantly.

VERY Important point to mention that imo SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the grind is the pity system for echoes: Each class of echoes have their own pity counter and a hard pity. For example, overlord and calamity class enemies have a hard pity of 2 while elite class enemies have a hard pity of 4. Here's what this means: If you want a tempest Memphis echo, you can fight any overlord class enemy (most probably the ones that can be killed quickly, from my exp - mech abom.). It will mostly likely not drop an echo (since there's only a 20% drop rate) BUT you now have a GUARANTEED drop for the next overlord class enemy. So you will 100% get a drop from tempest Memphis. And if you do end up getting the drop from the boss you don't want, go fight another one or fight him again. Keep in mind, you have an 80% chance of not getting the drop. You can farm your desired echoes in this way SOOOO DAMM FAST it's unreal. For the elites, the pity counter is 4. So here's my strategy: I farm two random elites that I don't want and try to not get an echo twice in a row. The chances of that happening are 64% which is decently high imo. Then you can farm the elite boss you're looking for and at most you need to kill two to get the drop. Since I've not done time and probability analysis of this, I'm not sure if this is indeed the best way to farm elites (maybe it's better to just get 1 pity instead of 2), but I exhaust my elites a lot and the thought of going into other's worlds to farm is tedious so my strategy let's me reach a decent compromise between getting the drops I want, having enough to farm, and the amount of time spent. The only other option left is to try to miss three times and build three pity to guarantee the next elite so you have a drop from 100% of the elites - the chances of three misses are 51.2%, which feels tedious AF. However I'm confident that the 4 cost echo farming strat is the most practical. PS: I did not discover or come up with this. Pls find Wuwa content creators who talk about this for the original source, testing and data

I never cared about Echo Farming. I just absorb whatever Echo there is and go on my way.

i would assume they only optimize the progression at max level and didnt expect alot of people already minmax their echos at level 30-40. just my head cannon tho

I love the echo system in concept with the way they can be used in combat, but getting materials to level them up is way too much of a pain, because those you can’t even effectively grind because of the high waveplate cost. One of the few saving graces of the Hoyoverse artifact systems you mentioned is that unwanted items can be converted directly converted into exp for other items. The closest thing WuWa has to that I’ve only used once so far and it just seems like a reinvention of the Artifact Strongbox from Genshin

Two of the reasons of my gripe is the exp/echoexp/coins grind is: *1. The Waveplate is too expensive.* > Lower it to a 50% then it would be much more better, but some may say it would be more "grindier" which I am talking next *2. How grindy the Domains for exp/echoexp/coins are.* > I propose an idea of 1 battle multiplier, this way it would hasten to how much times you can just finish in one fight, without feeling the grind

Issue that i come across when grinding. 1: If your Data Bank isn't level 15 for the permanent gold echo upgrade, you are always behind those that grind. 2: No off piece, unlike genshin where set only need 4 for the full effect in WW you need all 5 for the effects to activate. 3: You can't feed unwanted Echo to level up the Echo you want to level up besides from those you already level up. 4: Doing any of the Tacit place felt pointless, because it generally better for me just to mark an enemy and run around killing that enemy till i got the desired stats on top of fusing unwanted Echo in mid of that exploration to maybe got something i could use in the future. 5: The cost Limitations on what Echo you could equip suck.

I just don't understand why it took me so long to get a single aero dmg bonus on an echo for the aero dmg set 💀 Seriously, why can dps 4 cost echoes get healing bonus as a main stat???

Just a note: The 1.1 announcement for echoes and mats for echoes (topic 1.4 in the post) seems to be only for EVENTS the EN translation is bad. KR CN and JP all have consistent wording. Only EN was bad Edit: There a possible chance still I guess for the devs to buff tacit fields in 1.1 but I doubt it... Hopefully tho... The translation says "Version Events" and "rewards" so take that how you will

Sometime i really want auto absorb echo system... Cause i kinda grind it everyday. So it getting tedious very fast to go back to echo and clicking Absorb everytime. That just me maybe.

Few things that frustrate me: 1). Pity system is basically worthless at max Data Bank level because it's fairly uncommon to go more than 2-3 kills with getting an echo, therefore resetting your pity. So you're more incentivized to just track the one MOB you're after as not to waste time jumping from elite to elite trying to stack and inevitably reset pity. 2). The weights on desirable ELITE mainstats are too low. There are what, ~20 Flautists in the world. Less than half of them aren't going to give me echos. The majority of those are giving me Lingering Base set instead of Electro. And then I have like a 1/10, at best to hit Electro mainstat? And that's just to get an echo worth leveling? I think you make a great point- it's fine if echos are 99% of the time not an upgrade, but don't make me spend hours a day searching for that.

Yes, but the issue is less getting the echoes themselves and more upgrading them. I hope that higher union levels will increase how much leveling/tuning materials by a significant degree, rather than a small amount.

I think an aspect that also adds insult to injury is how little some needed echoes appear in the open world in comparison to others. My Tambourinist and Flautist echo farms are legit like 1/3, if that, as long as my Stonewall Bracer farming sessions. There are just so little of them in the world. Makes the rng even worse cause you have a much more limited pool to fish from.

Personally i tune every echo to lvl 5 and if i don’t get crit rate its in the trash its so much efficient but more effort

my current only problem with the game rn is the auto targetting when I dont specificly hit the lock on button (which I only really do for bosses) I dont understand how it works at all. Sometimes im fighting one enemy then it locks onto the guy all the way on mars not even on my screen and suddenly im swining my weapon threateningly at him and doing nothing. Its not even "lock onto nearest target" its at best "lock onto target closest to the invisible dot at the center of your screen no matter how far away you two are or how many enemies are between you"

Farming for echos IS ENJOYABLE Leveling your echos IS GRINDY AF

a full tacit refresh cant even raise fully one yellow echo like how???

I think another think you can touch on about WW that ties in to this "echo system" is just how much more expensive stamina consumption is with the game It has the same regeneration rate as Star Rail IIRC but everything just feels more expensive, with exp runs costing 40 (instead of 20 base like Genshin or 10 base like Star Rail) and echos + world bosses costing 60 instead of 30 like SR or 40 from Genshin, the only thing it retains the same are the weekly boss which is also 60

The real problem is 60 waveplate tacet fields that only reward 10 tuners. That’s only 40 tuners a day, unless I am missing an alternative method to acquire tuners.

From my experience, being able to hunt for the mainstat and only bother for the substats is a HUGE pro. In Genshin, it takes me more than a week just to get a crit mainstat. In WW, it could only take me an hour or two. Now, the issue only truly lies in the resources used to unlock substats for echoes. In Genshin, you can feed other artifacts but then suffer more layers of RNG due to them not just rolling once. In WW, while the resources like tuners are scarce, they only need to be rolled once. For instance, in less than 2 weeks, I already have a serviceable end-game viable Jiyan echo stats wise. Problem is, I haven't leveled him and his talent as well as his weapons. Also, most of us aren't Union Level 40 yet. So I expect better rewards from dungeons once we reach that stage. Also, I love how the game gives you an option to go casual and farm echoes in Tacet Fields or hunt them To cut it short, while I prefer WW's system than Genshin, they still need to improve it.

We're just two weeks since the launch of the game and we already want endgame Echo tiers. It's crazy. In Genshin it takes you at least a month to even take on Lv.70-90 artifact domains.

How about auto progress to next +5/+10/+15/+20/+25 like Genshin so I don’t have to manually mess with things to be efficient with my echo exp

If I’m being honest, compared to artifacts in Genshin there really isn’t much difference. Like yes you can farm Echoes in the overworld unlike genshin but if you are targeting a specific set you still end up having to do sit and kill mobs after mobs in tacet fields and then cry as you get Glacio damage bonus on your Void thunder. Echoes don’t have the freedom of an off piece like Genshin but Genshin doesn’t have the freedom of farming in the overworld. Leveling up echoes is a pain cuz you can’t use other echoes and leveling up artifacts is a pain as you see it roll in def. The Echo system of WuWa is like better by Genshin I feel by a small and very small margin

having a systerm that combine echo to the main stats we want would be great but of course with the cost of like combine with 30 or 40 echo with the same rarety

you could have also mentioned since they don't mind making character specific echos such as dreamless for havoc mc it also means that it is possible for characters that preform poorly to get a new echo for them that has a special effect that can help them preform better in other words buffing bad units with echos

Btw guys, is anyone else struggling with the ER stat much more than even the damage bonuses Ive only got two pieces of on my whole account and i have more of any given damage bonus I cant build jianxin, my verina cant burst every rotation. Its sad

the biggest problem is that u cant lvl ur echos all u want in wuthering waves thats a big problem and they need 2 chang that

I'm amazed that, with as many people who've played Genshin as there are, no one's bringing up the obvious: We're NOT at endgame. We're at World level/SOL phase 4/5 out of 8. It's like no one remembers that the drops at the equivalent point in Genshin were at best 20% of what you get at max level. Yes, we are given the ability to grind endgame echoes, but when you compare that to what on-level content needs, we already destroy it with half-optimized echoes. The only issues arises when we try to push and brute-force content set at level 80+, and let's be honest, while some people have already started beating endgame content, most of us don't have the skill to pull it off even with maxed echoes. So chill, chances are the exp won't be a problem in the long run.

They just have to add purple and blue tuner conversion to gold & unleveled echo can be use as exp imo.

I get my echoes from exploration only currently because I just don't have the waveplate for Tacet Fields. And it's for that reason alone that while I don't particularly like echo farming I do APPRECIATE it. I can still gear my characters somewhat while also making sure they're leveled. That said...ask me how many times I've gotten an Electro DMG+ stat on a Fusion Set echo. Or how many CRIT Bell-Borne's I've gotten. Yeah. those are my favorites. Usually, after I get say the fifth CDMG Bell Borne I kinda tap out for the day.

Where can I find efficient echo farming routes? Does someone have one created already?

Kuro' other game PGR gives us an Idea of how Echo farming might improve in the future In PGR when you want to upgrade a levelled Memory (that game's equivalent to Echoes) you can "Resonate" them to unlock substats, There are two ways to go about this: 1. Feed a memory of the same rarity into it which unlock a random substat from a list of 8 different substats 2. use a selector Item to pick which of the 8 you want- you can get this selector from two different in-game shops- one that uses currency you get from "Warzone" (one of a few weekly game modes) or the special store that uses a currency you can get from events and the battle pass

Being able to farm echoes almost infinitely is great and one of the best things about wuthering waves. My issue is it's so hard to get echo exp, why can't we get a simulation that gives echo exp? Or let us scrap echoes for echo exp!

guys i have a question who knows how valuable the different substats actually are? im talking about the basic and heavy atk bonus and resonance skill and liberation bonus? how happy and sad should I be if i get those....

Currently my biggest issue that I cannot auto add +Exp items to get to a tune level point. Also, there is no perfect number of +exp items to get exactly +5, +10, +15.

5:00 Tbh, farming pieces for the main stat's is easier then in both Genshin and HSR. But getting substats is probably worse. Like, what they COULD do is give us the option to scrap/dismantel old echo's we dont use for tuners. Like 1 5 star echo for 5 tuner's or something, or at least up the thing for tacet field's. And even if they dont do the scrapping thing for 5 star's, they could at least add it for 4 star's and allow you to craft 1 5 star tuner for 2/3 4 star tuners Would balance out i'd recon

If you want to farm specific echoes, you can go to your databank and sift through the side tabs until you find a section where you can select so your map shows which areas specifc TD's are found. It's an identical feature in Genshin for when you farm specific mobs for their resources. Quite handy if you want to commit bear genocide after a day of Grizzly frustration. 😂

Not a big deal for me. My only request is to have a way to convet purple tuners into gold.

To be fair we don't really know what are the drops for higher level tacet fields, for all we know it could be double. Another thing I haven't heard anyone mention is that each update will bring new monsters and new monsters = new skills! This is so fun for me compared to just getting a new set that I have to farm for like in genshin xd

Even though i like the game in General, despite some stuttering i have, the Echo Grinding, either getting only the desired main stat, not even talking about sub stats, alongside with raising it, burns me out incredible fast.

It would be cool if you could run tacet fields with no wave plates and just get the echos so that you don’t have to run all over the map. Maybe have a 15 min refresh after so it is not overpowered but during that time you can just go to another field

I think they should add a raid like mode for bosses, with a certain degree of guarantee on stats

One minor complaint i have for echo farming is that some sets like void thunder only have 2 elite types. And because you can't get the 5pc effect if you got duplicates, that leads to me farming every single one in my world completely for 2 weeks straight to get a single complete 5* electro dmg% full set. And now, with yinlin releasing, i have to do the same all over again. I get this makes cooping for echos more fun but atleast personally for me playing at SEA i almost never find ppl to farm with even though I'm active in a few discord servers made extactly for that (a few others told me its majorly a SEA problem though so maybe I just got unlucky with my recommended server)

I have no more resources for echos, ran out of materials for tuning yesterday 😭 they need to add a domain for it ASAP

Why there is only 2 elite enemy for electro set?

In genshin you get the artifact substats pre-determined, you know the +0 is trash from the get go, resources saved. You upgrade the potential ones. Even if it turned bad, they're most of the time useable as long as its like 20-25+ cv. In Wuwa, you upgrade the pieces for it to end up being the +0 trash, and those resources are fked, you get them partially back but man... You know how shit the +4 to get the 4th substat on genshin is? On wuwa you do it 5 fucking times.

Oof That double hp double def roll💀 3:46

I spent a lot of time and resources farming food stats for calcharro and being able to grind semi endlessly for the stats I wanted was nice but now that I'm building up yinlin and all of my daily energy has to go into her talents I can't even start farming tacet fields for her and I can't reroll pieces because I'm out of tuners I dunno how I wanna say I feel about the echo system, it took years for me to get the stats I wanted in genshin and hsr where it's been a couple weeks and I'm only missing 7 crit rate and 35 crit damage from the maximum possible rolls on calcharro so he's 70 270 ish instead of 77 or 78 300 ish, there's of course wiggle room for skill burst na ca damage and more er rolls but it is nice to get a build I'm happy with so early just now idk it feels almost impossible to get into the rerolling loop again like I'll need 2 more weeks just for yinlin so tacet fields could definitely come down in cost and go up in rewards maybe cost 20 and drop 3x the rewards and I think it might still suck a bit

I'm surprised the echo system is even this grindy. In PGR, there are artifacts and in the character section, it shows what tole a character specifically plays along with their recommended artifact set

Yes. farm overworld take sometimes, then need Seal tubes and Tuner from Tacet event shop etc but since Overworld farm is the big parts i thnk it would be nicer to give out more Seal Tube and tuner and tune some COst 3 echo main stat/set a bit.

Echo has lots of rooms for upgrades. Shiny could be implemented better, and it can be turned into a pet system. Even simple changes like making overworld TD drop exp/tuner will fix both grindiness and make exploration viable for a long time.

If I missed it from Vars but did he mention about how the WuWa community found a echo pity system unless they somehow removed that feature?

The only change i really think needs to happen is to let you equip more than one of the same echo and still get the set bonus. Some of those bastards are so rare i have farmed the purple heron for 3 days and not got a single one that is correct main stat/set. I on the other hand already have like 5 wolfs who are both correct mainstat and set that i just accidentally picked up while hunting the heron because the wolfs are so much more common.

For me, the most frustrating thing about the Echoes is the randomness of main stats. I got CRIT rate on Giant turtle and Healing bonus on Tempest Memphis.

The missed opportunity of using that Jiyan's echo "picture" as the thumbnail

I think they should make it so we can dismantle echoes to sealed tubes(How Star rail and genshin allows you to dismantle them for leveling resources for the artifacs/relics) to level up the echoes while still keeping the data merge for synthesis of echoes

I lowered my world level, and target farmed the elites. Able to obtain the decent main stat 3 cost that I need far quicker.

Honestly the only part of echo farming im struggling with, is echo exp, i dont have the exp to level the echoes that i want to level, Also Lack of tuners (not being able to convert useless lower tier tuners into higher tier ones)

id buy that over timegated gear system at anytime. its just somewhat hardcore focused

I too never cared to grind echoes, its actually okay to do since normally we can explore easily on foot, meaning I have a steady supply of echoes for the week. Farming for rare resources like the ring, masks, cores and TD cores, especially the gold ones are hard to get by, luckily you can synthesize the normal ones to the rare ones back in Jinzhou without credits is a good plus

not the leaked echo being shown at the end 😭😭

Ive been lucky to have a great run at echos and sub stats. For one character. Hopefully they give me ways to get more echo xp. So maybe I can make it two.

I don't have a problem with 3 cost echoes with the right mainstat if the echo exp gain is this low =) .

Bruh me just having fun killing everything that moves hoping them to drop some stuff😂

I think another thing to remember is that the game has been out for only like 2-3 weeks or something. Any artifact system in any game is a time sink. Right now, we simply have not had enough time to collect and gather resources to reach a temporary min-max state. For all we know, a new best echo can come out in the next update making your current investment lose some value. Playstyles are also going to adapt and change over time as well. I don't feel like we even need maxed out echoes yet, just having the set bonus + maybe level 8 with 2 substats is enough for now. And I feel like its a fairly forgiving system currently. There is less pressure collecting echoes and I can spend my time either running around collecting them or saving that for another day without feeling trapped losing energy. My energy can then go towards bosses and collecting up exp for now which is going to prove to be useful as I collect more characters and echoes. Lots of quality of life may still come over time and will be greatly appreciated, but its not so bad right this second.

The farming for echos isn't bad imo. The exp for those echos on the other hand...

Why kuro didnt allow fodder echo to be used for upgrade? Its weird needing to use mats to unlock substats, i think it will be better if the tuner is used reroll substats

Thank you for your continuing analysis of these games. You're always a great listen. Now for me to get cancelled by other viewers. I have two discussion points that I don't feel are fair to Wuthering Waves. Where we are currently is a resource lean state. Everyone wants to get every character leveled up NOW. We have started as a roster of 16 characters. As we proceed, one or two characters will be trickling in at a time. As we play the game, resources will accrue just like in other gacha but unlike other gacha, we can share the echoes from team to team unless they are specifically fielding at the same time. We don't need all 3 tower teams in totally unique gear. Just like Jiyan and Calcharo are sharing the same greatsword, healers can use the same set or parts of a set reducing the net needed items. If you are expecting to max out your account like a theory crafter trying to make videos? No, the system is not enough. If you are one of us generic schmucks playing after work? I believe over the course of a year, it will be fine. The next cancellable point is I am one of those welkin fools that leaves my characters ascended 80 and lets them organically get xp as I do things. Do I 36 star abyss? Yes. The BIG POINT I want to discuss is a side-effect of that grind of the overworld. When I used to grind regularly for samurai hilts and such (omg Inazuma why) I was pulling in an extra 2-4 million mora per month than when I didn't per that journal thing on Hoyolab. For every 5 xp gained was 1 less mora spent and this is across all four active characters. So yes, the echo grind is a thing, but I got my 6 ascended 50 WuWa characters to 52 doing it until I got the next world tier up. Let's see how far my 60 ascended guys get now. If you're racing to the end, you'll never be happy no matter the game but sometimes slowing down and playing the long game will net you the most.

right now there are barely any place to grind for their resources to upgrade Echo...so yeah it very grindy to level them up but getting them is very easy

their problem with the echoes is, The reward was not scale well enough with the union level. When we hit union level 30/40. When we start using golden echoes. The resource to tune the echoes is very limited. We only get 10x tuner. Means we can only unlock 1 sub-stat from the Tacet Field that cost 60waveplate. That's alot for 1 sub-stat only. We also get purple tuner as reward as well. That most people wont use. Why we still get that purple tuner ?

It still feels weird to see a cdmg substat on a cdmg echo not that im complaining lol

Actually, I am more worried that my progress is too FAST because of all the compensation, and that I might get bored of the game soon because of this.. I already have 2 teams built at level 60.. and it hasn't been a month, I remember Genshin took a lot longer than this. I just hope we keep getting harder content so we won't get bored soon

Bro how are people at endgame already? I haven't finished the main story yet!

what we should really talk about is echo and how that gates us from having teams atm because we cant raise any echos =(

The fear of taceit fields is crazy. They have been the best use of energy so far on my account. I spent like a week doing taceit fields almost exclusively and have the proper echos for all my characters now. With the exception of 2 of them. My characters have a mix of level 25 and 20 echos. I got my main DPS to level 70 and skills upgraded. And working on doing the same for the rest of my characters as we speak. Except now that I'm past world level 40, is more efficient because I'm getting drops of 3 instead of 2. Theory craft all you boys like. IN PRACTICE, taceit fields were a blessing to me

I'm lacking echo xp really bad to the point that rolls won't even matter. I just want leveled echos on 3 characters.

I prefer the GI system, especially because a) I don't have all that much time to play games (as a student with a part time job), so doing five runs of a domain is much faster and easier than running around an open world for hours to maybe get one useable Echo. And b) I don't have a problem with giving my charas only "decent" artifacst, because the combat in GI is not all that difficult and much more team-oriented (my "Bloom team", for example, is doing amazing damage even though none of the charas in it have amazing builds).

i really love the farm personally , hope we get more exp or can use dead echos for exp

I believe that because echo farming doesn’t require waveplates to obtain, they had to balance the system in a way where people would still log in every day. Such as not always getting the guaranteed echo set and a very high level cap requiring a lot of exp mats. Personally while it is annoying farming for the echoes, having it not drain your waveplates is ok to an extent.

Can't get an on set havoc damage bonus echo to save my life. Been days T_T

3:48 YIKES I FELT THAT

they only have 2 add the option were u can use echos 2 lvl up echos and the problem would be solved

i dare say this is a better progression system than Resin and Trailblaze power for artifacts and relics

Ive been farming for 1 cost aero echo with atk% for 3 days now nothing NOTHING

My only problem with grinding echo is that the game crashes every 30 min for me when I toggle between the data bank tracking and the map lol

we get too little xp/tuners and too many echoes, also purple tuners, why are we still getting them at UL40 whats the point, they should let us convert the purple ones into gold ones or something

bro on data bank lvl18 isnt it 90% echo drop chance why do i barely get any echoes, its more like 1 in 5 chance (20%) ☠️

The best solution for the resources being hard to obtain is that they should give lvl up materials everytime we absorb an echo for example: absorbing a purple should give u 3 purple materials and absorbing a gold should give you 1 lvl material this does not rlly hurt the game since it is aprt of the grind after all. Maybe even just one purple anything helps after all.

Its hard to say since. Account level cap is 60 but were at 40 at best atm

I find farming echoes in WuWa to be at least a little more satisfying as it's tied into my favourite aspect: the exploration.

I think they lower exp cost to level echoes and lower amount of tuners needed to tune an echo. Also, lower the amount of waveplates needed to loot tacet fields, challenges and bosses.

Your videos butter My biscuits thank you

but can we say that ? What I mean is that max character level is going to be 90 maybe eaven 100 we are just bearly getting to 70's by now and we expect to maxout Echo's fully before ? I know it take's alot of time but in my opinion it should take time

The amount of resources it takes to just tune and level up a 5* echo and get trash substats is insane af