The Fire Lancers were a lot more nuanced than I originally anticipated, leading to the longest edited game analysis video I've ever published so far on the channel. I hope I was able to share a few meaningful insights on the Chinese unique unit with you folks! Let me know in the comments below on any other topic you'd like me to explore. As always, thanks for tuning everyone, and more content is on the way!
@adamkowalczyk97912 жыл бұрын
Check how beastyqt prove firelancers useless with scouts and horsearchers, he demolish firelancers
@citamcicak2 жыл бұрын
I'd suggest also a general buff to horsemen, since now they are just a super niche unit right now.
@aslof10692 жыл бұрын
You should have created two groups of fire lancers and attack and retreat each after another. Because if you let the Fire Lancer run back for 3 seconds it actually charges the charge and can do more damage again in a very short notice. It is a hit and attack unit as long as two groups of it available.
@mrsupa4442 жыл бұрын
Fire lancers are actually quite weak. Zhuke nukes wreck then, so do archers, and MAA actually win too. Try using line formation or spread formation, and for fucks sake done clump everyone and let the fire lancer charge!!! Real players micro their units. I didn’t see a bit of good micro in your tests.
@psssshhh77302 жыл бұрын
@@mrsupa444 Micro is your idea of a valid counter to this? That's like telling someone that you wont drown if you have your breath underwater. Any advantage gained by micro is countered by micro. The problem is, if skill is the only answer and army composition is irrelevant, then the competitive scene is going to look like the warring kingdoms era since it will become a contest of who can play the Chinese better. After all, how many work harder to enable an inferior tool? He used spread formation in the 5 v10 knight test and the end result was negligible. Refer to the charge mechanic explanation for the the shear SIZE of the blast radius, and how that makes formations inviable. More, micro has its limits (specifically in mental exhaustion) and the current answer to a well controlled army is 'bigger ball of 'splodey horses'. The effort needed to use fire lancers effectively is much lower the effort needed to counter them, such that with similarly skilled players the one with fire lancers will win well over 50% of the time. That is why its a matter of balance.
@michaeltestbaker24042 жыл бұрын
A 20 minute edited video from Age of Noob on game mechanics? Hell freaking yeah!
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
@kurosujiomake2 жыл бұрын
Knights are usually not faster due to yuan dynasty's movement speed bonus. So unless ur fighting another yuan knights or mongol knights you'll be able to run away and reengage after the charge comes up again
@roarkthunderbird46982 жыл бұрын
yeah the guy probably never played china. his analysis has so many mistakes
@rinni81572 жыл бұрын
@@roarkthunderbird4698 no he said that on a part of the video but he forget that. He said that on a repost of a comment.
@jack0123nj2 жыл бұрын
The fun fact: Yuan Dynasty was a Chinese Dynasty that was built by Mongolian conquerors. (see also the Mongolian Campain. And you may tell the difference fire lancers' iron helmet goes with Mongolian style ) however the Original Mongolian are difficult to defend the Fire Lancers rush their Landmarks. "You dare use my own spells against me?"
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Ah nice, thanks for sharing!
@Grothgerek2 жыл бұрын
"however the Original Mongolian are difficult to defend the Fire Lancers rush their Landmarks." This kind of make sense, because they combine the strength of both the chinese and the mongolian.
@jack0123nj2 жыл бұрын
@@Grothgerek Well, in history you're right. Song Dynasty mostly is the first civilization that systematically use gun powder in the military. Although they finally are defeated by the Mongolian because of some other problems. But the Mongolians are well known for learning new knowledge and technology. Just like they use Arabic Trebuchet to attack China castle, they found the power of gun powder, then soonly combined it with their own military.
@ioannisdimitriadis30732 жыл бұрын
Well alright but you all forget something. The Fire Lance was NOT an invention of Yuan China neither it was used by Mongols. Quite the opposite, it was used against the Mongols and it was a known anti-cavalry weapon(unlike how it is portraited now as the smoke and the rocket on it was very fatal for enemy horses). The Jin and Song dynasties used this weapon for their cavalry as it was then when the rise of gunpowder units and Chinese medieval technologies occured. Even the fire arrows were based on the same mechanism of the Fire Lance. During the Yuan dynasty China fell more in a dark age rather making new inventions until the rise of the Ming. Finishing, I will live this passage In 1233, Jin soldiers used fire lances successfully against the Mongols. Pucha Guannu led 450 Jin fire lancers and routed an entire Mongol encampment. The Mongol soldiers were apparently disdainful of other Jin weapons, but greatly feared the fire lance.[12]
@The_Art_of_AI_8882 жыл бұрын
Well, except it isn't their "spells" to begin with. Mongols, despite being the strongest army at the time, could be able to defeat the Han Chinese and conquer all of China, was all thanks to the heavily corrupted Song Dynasty (it was falling apart anyway) and Han Chinese talented generals were helping the Mongols to conquer their own people.
@minmean30162 жыл бұрын
it’s basic speed is 1.5 yuan dynasty gives speed boost to all units
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
AHH, I thought I lost my mind. I've been editing the video the entire day - I thought I made a mistake and was confused. Thank you!
@minmean30162 жыл бұрын
@@AgeofNoob it’s why i prefer staying in yuan, the movement bonus make a huge difference for siege duel, palace guard, and reinforcements, grenadiers’ performance just don’t quiet cut it, they are best used in small groups of 10 or 15 and think them more like mangonels that dies to mangonels.
@biffbidderman81642 жыл бұрын
@@minmean3016 Don't forget vills and the eco bonus even tho it's not too amazing
@downbook2 жыл бұрын
@@minmean3016 Indeed, also found out that you can go Ming first then go Yuan and now you get a faster Grenadier
@minmean30162 жыл бұрын
@@downbook too much investment, i won’t try this unless it’s black forest
@HistoricalWeapons2 жыл бұрын
i recommend self damage for balance, also historically accurate
@FockeWolf1002 жыл бұрын
I remember my first encounter.. we had a rus team mate that walled up, and a blob of 50 fire lancers instantly burned through that, eliminated him in a minute, then me, and the rest of my team The siege damage is really, really ridiculous. Feels like stupid fast petards.
@Cythil2 жыл бұрын
A petard that do not die after they explode on top of that. ;)
@robchang45332 жыл бұрын
Age of Springalds is over - Age of Fire Lancers has begun
@kurrwa2 жыл бұрын
They were strong as much in age of springalds xd one time my army was steamrolled by fire lancers haha
@robchang45332 жыл бұрын
@@kurrwa wouldn't mass springald beat them?
@shermuhammadkhan33832 жыл бұрын
Really loved the longer form video giving us an in depth analysis on the firelancers Age of Noob ! I can tell A TON of effort went into this, and it may take a lot more time and energy than your shorter videos but I'd love to see more of these ! I just can't overstate how well made this one was, getting major spirit of the law vibes ! Also am i the only one that feels like the developers need to give us more information about mechanics and abilities in game ? Like i feel all passive abilities should have an ability card on the unit which we can hover over and read, like they should tell us what the minimum tile range is to execute a charge and show us a proper cooldown timer every time it goes on cooldown, I read somewhere that someone did some testing to show that ALL units have a charge ability which gives them enhanced movement speed for 5 seconds when running into enemies from a certain (not calculated) distance and that this ability has a 10 second cooldown (most units do not even have real visual indicators to show when this charge is ready ) and the Knights have a special charge which deals bonus damage, gives the speed/ lasts for 7 seconds and has a 15 second cooldown instead of 10(id love to see you do a video on the charge and other hidden mechanics someday ! )... I also read that spears had a bracing cooldown, but that seemed to have been a bug more than an intended mechanic i guess, and before the current patch the spears used to only brace when holding position or idle/given the stop command...i feel these are things we should NOT have to research ourselves, the mechanics of the game should be clear to make learning easier and playing a lot more intuitive (also will help us realise and point out bugs when mechanics aren't so mysterious instead of considering those bugs as the intended function of the features )
@debdobdoornob2 жыл бұрын
Just came across you recently due to grubby, love the way you display the troops in close, subbed
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support Debs! :)
@JavierGomezX2 жыл бұрын
Something most people don't seem to take into account regarding the Chinese unique units (mainly the grenadier and fire lancer) is that it takes quite the investment to even unlock them, having to spend 1200 food and 600 gold (more than any upgrade in the game) just to be able to build fire lancers, and a whopping 2400 food and 1200 gold invested on a Stonewall (if you built spirit way first) to unlock grenadiers. If you simply make them as good as other units in the game you encourage people to ignore them, what's the point of that?
@deusvult94392 жыл бұрын
Fire lancer shouldn't insta win most of the game/team game that's just stupid
@JavierGomezX2 жыл бұрын
@@deusvult9439 Just make spearmen. That is enough but if you really want to counter the fire lancers completely then make stone walls too, now they are useless. The counter system is how the game is supposed to be played and it works better now, so just use it. In other words, git gud.
@northerncassowary85672 жыл бұрын
Man, this makes me miss the mass strelet and oprichinik in aoe3 so much
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
fire lancer is like they fused the oprichinik and the curassier into one unit with no downsides lmao, idk what the hell they were thinking
@MattSmith-il4tc2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for confirming I'm not insane. I main HRE and I have died to mass fire lancers so many times recently. Now I know why even mass spears has failed to help me against these annoying units
@brubie75842 жыл бұрын
HRE spearman (and Delhi) are currently bugged and don't brace which is what ruins the fire lancers.
@MattSmith-il4tc2 жыл бұрын
@@brubie7584 Yes. I know now. That was the point of my comment.
@MattSmith-il4tc2 жыл бұрын
@@lucaxtshotting2378 Huh? The point of my comment was that the video explained that HRE spearmen are bugged... I main HRE (as I said in my original comment) and now I know why I can never counter the fire lancers. Delhi has nothing to do with this.
@Dude-18872 жыл бұрын
@@MattSmith-il4tc I’m late but wanted to add something, he’s stupid ignore him
@DCdabest2 жыл бұрын
So we nerf the torch damage for sure. Maybe decrease the splash damage but bump the speed ever so slightly to make them more like a proper light cavalry unit?
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Splash damage needs to be diminishing for sure imo. If they retain their damage, they should be slower than Knights though. If they nerf their damage so they lose consistently to Knights, then I'm okay with bumping up their speed. Either way, they'll need to tweak them somehow! :)
@DCdabest2 жыл бұрын
@@AgeofNoob yeah that "medium cavalry" role is really where they need to sit. Like a cost effective way to deal with mass heavy infantry seems to be the correct role for them.
@Twixx_772 жыл бұрын
@@AgeofNoob their basic movement speed(without dynasty) is 1.5 and knights have 1.62, so knights are already faster.
@NorthernWhisper2 жыл бұрын
Man, your thumbnail game is good but this time it was especially crazy. Super well done.
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Northern! The animations of the Landsknechts flying backwards from the charge was nicely done by the devs, so I captured it!
@ImaginaryMdA2 жыл бұрын
Fancy seeing you here! :D
@Amphok2 жыл бұрын
so spearman counter them so why all the fuss?
@NovazYT2 жыл бұрын
Takes a second or so to bombard a stone wall too, and when that happens you may as well resign when against the FL rush.
@whiteegger25652 жыл бұрын
I disagree on the price part. They are not cheaper than horseman due to the age 3 lock and also investing an extra landmark. I do think the aoe dmg needs a falloff.
@Jordan-mj7kz2 жыл бұрын
I agree it’s got a large radius either just remove it or significantly lower it IMO
@yexind.40882 жыл бұрын
I've watched a match up. The gu spread his unit out to counter play the fire lancers which worked out extremly well
@mensakachun2 жыл бұрын
To make a balance change for fire lancer, Don’t reduce their damage. Just make their explosive charge attack would hurt themselves.
@LcHR212122 жыл бұрын
damn didn't realise how stronk they are
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Fire Lancers go badaboom! I actually laughed out loud at the Landsknechts test. :D
@LcHR212122 жыл бұрын
landsknechts need to be nerf'd vs fire lancers, change my mind
@patrickwailui18642 жыл бұрын
@@LcHR21212 And remember landsknechts cost more resources than fire lancers lol
@mirzaizmaname2 жыл бұрын
Had a 3 vs 3 game where i overchopped trees and made a gap in my stone walls, and just like that i'm queuing for the next game 😂
@MwKShield12 жыл бұрын
Do they benefit from the University gunpowder upgrade? I wasn't sure there would be something I hate more than french knights but the fire lancers running through people's bases unchecked is unplayable. People aren't even using them to fight unless they see easy kills. They're just destroying every building they touch and move on. Doesn't help that the Chinese can see all your villagers ahead of time and get free vision of where most everything is. Just split your lancers up into 3 groups and take out three landmarks at the same time.
@jonathanstrick80262 жыл бұрын
While I think they are too strong in some situations - I am not sure what you say about the correct price point for them since you have to invest in a 2nd castle landmark which costs 1200/600 to unlock them. I think especially torch damage to buildings needs to be lowered.
@NomoregoodnamesD82 жыл бұрын
1200f 600g for a unique tech that gives you Spies, a ton of movement speed on all of your units, like +5 LoS on your buildings, access to better food eco, and gives access to the unique unit. It's worth every penny
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
Man commments like 'it costs 1200/600' and 'just kill them before they mass them' are not grounded in reality... they might not be a problem in high level pro 1v1, but in team games they are pure cancer for the reasons in the video.
@jonathanstrick80262 жыл бұрын
@@MrReno888 In my original comment I also wrote that I think they need to be nerved.. especially the building damage. I just wanted to say that I think the cost comparison of horsemen vs fire lancer (as in the video) is not completely fair since you have additional costs to get there... But as I initially wrote I think they are too strong and should receive some sort of balancing.
@mnmmnmm2 жыл бұрын
@@MrReno888 I don't think he said anything about killing them before massing them, but pointing out that there is a considerable investment to unlock making them
@whatisthis21992 жыл бұрын
I think nobody here has ever played team games. Nobody rushes fire lancers. As China you want to go double feudal for the civ boom, the amazing villages and the zung nue to have at least some kind of decent unit to stop early aggression or do some yourself, that puts you back a few minutes. Next you wanna stay there as long as possible to keep the buff to the villager training time cause when you go for the next Dynasty, its gone. Next you want do go for the double castle. By now your opponent should have noticed by scouting what you are up to and is probably about to hit imperial. You are now behind on resources and time. You'll probably never hit Ming anyway and it's 20 - 25 minutes into the game. And lets e for real, the barbican is garbage in the castle age, the tax thingy is marginal since nobody will collect the taxes anyway and the imperial Palace is trah cause you can probably guess where his vills are anyway. Sure I agree, nerf the torch damage vs buildings but for Christ's sake, leave the rest be or its just another Landsknecht that does nothing and never gets built cause its too much effort for the return.
@daboyz61062 жыл бұрын
I played a team game last night against a Chinese player. At one point, he built 100 fire lancers and just ran through my mate’s base in 60 seconds, destroying all the landmarks. The torch damage is insane.
@chronographer2 жыл бұрын
Delhi once again totally OP!
@morantNO12 жыл бұрын
In the thumbnail, I literally read "Are Fire Lancers *Overpowdered* ?"
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Well... are they overpowdered morant?
@SamuraiHonor2 жыл бұрын
Honestly starting off: I feel this whole discussion is scuffed. They probably are more an issue in teamgames where everybody sits in their base for 15 minutes building up, not scouting. Scouting solves so much of this. Imagine letting your opponent age up twice. Investing the resources for half an army extra and then build up enough mass after that. Second off: In a 1 v 1 (cause team game casuals that 15 minute no rush can cry me a river) elite firelancers hardly ever come out. It's the age up 2x issue and affording it's infrastructure + mass. It's more likely fairly naked firelancers come out vs upgraded units. Third: they are a glass cannon knight charge. Knights are not uncounterable either. You use the same tactics of a mixed defense. Walls, spearmen and archers behind the spearmen. And as a personal anecdote. In a china mirror my opponent tried to kill my mixed unit comp: zhuge , xbow , MAA , NoB and a few springald with mass firelancers. It fell flat on it's face a few engagements in a row. He too made a hole in my wall at some point and had them run ammock through my base but got cleaned up unable to torch all my landmarks. They go squish so easily. Especially in small skirmishes, well spread out, and after they charged. Honestly. If you get trucked over by firelancers you've failed on so many levels already. Scouting, agression (letting your opponent age up twice lmao), proper army comp, proper defensive reaction and setup. Are the numbers a bit bs? Probably. But it has no right in succeeding if you have even a semblance of measurable inteligence. Due to how obvious, expensive and monocompositioned it is. It's not different than letting mongols sit on their silver tree. Allowing the HRE to fill up their regnitz. Letting britz get 50+ LB. Etc etc. It's new and people need to learn to deal with it. This is just bandwagoning onto an easy target. I did like the video as a clear example of what they're capable of in terms of raw power. The way you shot it etc etc. Video quality is prime, it's just the premise / discussion isn't correct, fair and too much in a void.
@bokajon2 жыл бұрын
Very true.
@user-ni6fg4wb7t2 жыл бұрын
It is RTS classic. Don't scout, don't know meta -> get chessed -> cry. In total, I agree with your comment, but as a thing to consider, it seems like raw power makes this punish opponent too hard of a hit? (If too hard even possible in a competitive game.) It totally can drive away new players, but they will be driven away just by Mongols playing the nation so idk :)
@SamuraiHonor2 жыл бұрын
@@user-ni6fg4wb7t As you said, there's tons of BS you already have to deal with in this game. Strats and civs that if you let them they'll check mate you in 3 moves. China does so in 5. I consider them to be a one time surprise in the game, an all in, cause of the investment. Or at worst it's a gatekeeping / ELO check moment (and it's an optional one too). Cause it will only kill people who haven't been doing necessary things like scouting or any kind of other interaction. You could just as well put your resources in more generalized tactics of NoBs, MAA, a varied army, or aging up and going to your pyrotechnics bombards endgame. The fights we are shown here, are the FINAL RESULT of everything that happened before in the game. There are at least 5 more step before step 6, the engagement, smashing your toys together (and losing cause firelancers smash hard). Eco, scouting, harassing, army composing, defensive posture + building each of these moves can completely shut down firelancers before you have to fight them head on. And even then, you don't need to fight them head on, you can still pressure your opponent, or keep them out etc etc. So are you being punished too hard, for making constant mistakes the first 10 - 12 minutes if you get steamrolled in one swoop? Nah, any civ can do that to you if you make that many mistakes. It's no different than having 20 MAA show up at your door while you are stuck in age 2 and a ton of other things. If you don't take general precautions / scout. A LOT of things in this game will do the same to you. Firelancers just make people feel stupid while doing so. It's like getting knifed in a shooter game. Personally? I'd rather take the equal resources fights, and add the extra landmark resources on top of that. Unless i'm running everything into a counter, those fights will be one sided too. And since I actually do know how to scout I tend to composition my armies quite decently. By the end of it i'll still have convincingly won, but will have a more versatile usable group of units afterwards.
@divdevdov2 жыл бұрын
i cant stress this enough, sometimes i play 4v4 with my friends (who are kinda new to RTS, one of them only plays aoe4 and only plays english), and we are always panicking when 40 mins after a slow start suddenly turned into quick elimination. i am not that good at rts, but i always try to build up army of mixed units and try to push aggresively against chinese, and tbh beating chinese is very easy when u do that. aiming chinese as 4 at the start of their age 2 usually won us the game. but, not every game is fun then, playing chinese would be hell, like invitation for a rush, and that is not fun. also, for newbies like me, playing aggresive means i wont be enjoying all the possibility of the game (e.g. cant try different unit comp, different landmark, or build order) so while you made a pretty good argument, sadly this means that the only way to play against chinese is to rush aggresively with pre-game plan, i am sure this cant be good for the game's community, as it could potentially drive new players maining chinese away. maaaaybe just a little tweak like reducing the aoe damage and slightly reducing the torch damage would be fun
@vmox74532 жыл бұрын
@@divdevdov so basically you want a nerf in their late-game because youre bored to beat them in feudal or early castle. nice
@8055N1663R2 жыл бұрын
would have been nice to see the fights without all enemies being clumped up. I'm sure the results would be quite different. (not different enough not to warrant a nerf, but enough to make the engagements less one-sided.) Also the keep should have had boiling oil, which would have made that engagement muuuuch worse for the firelancers. They'd still destroy it but take signifficantly more damage. Anyways, great video as always. Thanks for all your time and effort you put into these!
@TommyFit72 жыл бұрын
He already said that the spread formation is basicaly usless, and a lot of people don't reserch boiling oil
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
most team games it won't be 15 lancers it'll be like 50, they will kill a keep before the oil even touches them... they're pure cancer
@ecpgieicg2 жыл бұрын
@@TommyFit7 And that's not true. It just happens so that 5 spread out knights charging makes no defense as that also solves the pathing issue for fire lancer.
@perrytran95042 жыл бұрын
These are a lot better than I thought. Cool to see initial impressions from the betas evolve as the game is figured out.
@channel-z9f Жыл бұрын
Would love to see an update on this since Fire Lancers were changed some time ago.
@napolun37052 жыл бұрын
if it takes much fewer resources to access the Yuan dynasty or the others, feel free to nerf it. Take it in mind, Chinese needs lots of resources to UNLOCK those unique units, but other civs come for FREE
@Fseb-uj1ih2 жыл бұрын
Then what you are saying is that every other civ has to kill China before they get the Yuan dynasty? Remember that china does not only get acces to a unique Unit with a dynasty, but also an ekstra passive bonus aswell as the bonus the second landmark gives!? I would say you are right that China needs a lot of investment to get to late game unique units, but when they do.. thier late game is so much stronger than any other civ if you ask me… China is in a good place (20% range to 10% range is a needed nerf(upgrade)), but firelancers are to strong as this video indicates.
@napolun37052 жыл бұрын
@@Fseb-uj1ih Against china, defeat them in early or mid game, otherwise you will be defeated in late game. This is caused by the current meta or game mechanism - wants players to play fast and aggressive in the early game. China 2 landmarks in each age are not strong as you think. Bothe of the chinese landmarks together are just equal and sometimes less powerful as other civs one landmark. In order to get those dynasties buffs, china has to pay twice the investment than the other civs and changing dynasty changes the buffs as well, unlike other civs, one landmark,boom, access those buffs and keep them as the game going. china is stronger in the late game, but other civs can easily crush china in the early or mid game. Have you ever thought about it? if you want to nerf china's late game? fine, buff it's early game. The reverse is also the same, if want other civs are able to crush china in the late game, nerf them in the early game. why not nerf those 12 and 13.5 ranges springald? They are cheaper and produce faster than bombards. Yes fireancer is strong, have you ever thought again? royal knight is strong, early knight is strong, longbow is strong, early man at arm and vanguard are strong, horse archer and Mongudai are strong, early horseman is strong. Can fierlancer counter them? According to this video, kind of. But, in reality, where is the firelancer? LOL, you have not advanced in third age yet! Oops, you are in third age already? So sad, not enough resources for the second landmark. Only a few spearmen hold the ground for you.
@mircearadio54742 жыл бұрын
To sum it up , china now has 2 insanely units in late game that can end games very fast , with players just going for landmarks kill. Fuck it then i will play only china in 4v4 and customs ... and mass firelancers like there is no tommorow and raid raid raid raid raid until no player will ever want to play with me. China as a civ needs some balance , as known for relic balancing team this will take a long time to be addressed
@danielbalder2 жыл бұрын
A counter everything unit that acts as a better siege unit than actual defenseless siege units?
@florianschweiger66662 жыл бұрын
classical Relic' balance...
@CloudCuckooCountry2 жыл бұрын
I think the cost of the unit is fine, because you have to build two Age 3 landmarks to unlock them in the first place, but the area-of-effect damage and fire damage are ridiculous and absolutely need to be scaled back.
@StriKe_jk2 жыл бұрын
Too bad you haven't taken a quick look on the bonuses they get. Fire lancers usually have the dynasties speed bonus making them even more broken.
@Lezeik12 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this elaborate analysis. I've lost friends willing to play 4on4 games due to fire lancers. Even in 1on1 where I'd argue their (im)balance is less of a deal, it still is a deal. And yes: no fun at all. We now only consider 3on3 or 4on4 if we are all on discord. All merely to coordinate vs fire lancers. Last 80 games we played 4on4 where a chinese was present they went for fire lancer landmark victories. No exception. Sadly, this single unit in its current stage feels like the single reason to simply not boot AoE4 after a day of work.
@giacomogiliberti26732 жыл бұрын
Honestly while they are broken I take anything that is broken that isn't artillery, the artillery meta for me is the thing that makes me want to play the game less, hopefully the new springs will destroy other artillery, I will take this kind of bs over bombard spam any day but I guess it's a matter of tastes
@brutalusgaming88092 жыл бұрын
All of the other arguments about OP or not do not matter compared to this one. They are making regular players not log in and that is horrible for the game.
@patrickwailui18642 жыл бұрын
@@giacomogiliberti2673 But firelancers can burn artillery in seconds, so in team games, even artillery does not survive unless you have dozens of spearmen protecting them, not to mention the speed differences.
@giacomogiliberti26732 жыл бұрын
@@patrickwailui1864 yeah for me that's another reason to like them, of course they are too op so they need to be nerfed but I hope that they don't nerf them too much
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
yeah man same for me, aoe4 team games was a fun thing to play after work...now I just don't play at all. Fighting fire lancers isn't fun, team games are not fun, this strategy is in 9 out of 10 games I try to play. It's not fun, so why even play?
@chrisnewtownnsw2 жыл бұрын
great vid. i'd love it if you could explore the mangonel and how it fairs against the different generic infantry units. if it can be easily overrun by spearmen and or man at arms (using equal resources) for example. Does it really counter infantry or specifically only ranged infantry. Do xbow actually counter it. All these interesting questions
@minmean30162 жыл бұрын
Here are some tips and necessary things to do not only against firelancers but general rules of thumb as well. 1. Stone wall always stone wall chocks i.g confluence, mingolian height. stone wall between player bases at least one layer. 2. hide eco/tech landmarks build them in corners, in the safest player base (imperial palace, abbey of trinity, guild hall, king’s palace, HRE’s big church, guardians court) 3.apply pressure, it cost them huge pop cap to landmark snipe, get ur army together and push with canons. 4. micro to win fights against it peal off if u using cav, mix in spear if u using infantry
@michal47362 жыл бұрын
Let me know how can I build stone walls with Rus or catch up fire lancers with spearmen because Rus doesn't have any other counter :D On the other hand, I have to hold ~50 spearmen near my town in the case of a backdoor and with the other ~50, I won't be able to attack. Even 100% vision won't be helpful ^^ In the 1v1 I have a stronger early game but if it won't work it is GG and I should surrender because the late game is impossible. That is something not ok with that. Even worse is with team games. It is really hard to communicate with teammates and coordinate attacks or the economy is even harder, on another level. It is also hard to rush China as Rus early game because other teammates come fast to help. There is no discussion that fire lancers need nerfs. OP siege OP cost/possibilities OP aoe dmg
@vmox74532 жыл бұрын
@@michal4736 dude stop being salty, the chinese are behind in dark,feudal and castle age, and you're asking for nerfs?. i main chinese and in 1v1 is really Hard to able to mass them and imposible if your opponent is not giving you a break. honestly ppl asking for nerfs just because their loosing 4v4 with strangers.
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
@@vmox7453 bro most of aoe4 is probably played in team games with strangers, so how smart is it to just ignore team games being fun? No one cares about your ladder rank in 1v1, most people haven't even heard of this game... braindead units that ruin team games won't help that
@michal47362 жыл бұрын
@@vmox7453 I am salty? XD I gave some arguments for the entire game, 1v1 and team vs team but you're mad at me because you have problems only in 1v1. You don't care about other game parts. Of course, it is easier to counter China in 1v1 only because of better map control and late-game power. But still, it is wrong that even a late-game unit can crash any counter. Oh, and I am sorry but that game isn't 1v1 only but also team vs team what is more popular because more casual players prefer this mode. Casual players can give this game life so developers can't ignore this and have to balance the game for everyone.
@iljagaimovic91662 жыл бұрын
I don't think they need to be nerfed by damage too much... Just reduce area DMG, like Lancekneghts And why not just make them more expensive? More closer to knight price
@vesae26762 жыл бұрын
Compounding nerfs are almost always asking for trouble. Iirc they are still less tanky than regular horsemen. I think just reducing the aoe area a bit and building damage would make them ok. We also shouldn't forget that in team games (where the broken argument was made) there are a ton of broken stuff right now. Considering that the Chinese player has to basically tech age3 twice to get to the fire lancers, nerfing the cost and damage would make them practically non-existent in "normal" games. In general the fire lancers are the perfect example of a civ specific niche unit that the game should have more of. Of course oneshotting entire armies is stupid and the aoe is clearly overtuned anyway, but I hope that if and when they nerf the fire lancers they won't make them a luxury only unit that you can make if you are bored and floating a 50k bank.
@SamuraiHonor2 жыл бұрын
Why not make them as expensive as knights? Simple. Even currently i'd already rather invest in zhuge, bees, or clockwork bombards over how one sided and innitial cost firelancers are. They are a once per match gimmick at best if your opponent isn't a mouthbreather. A knight can actually fight or tank. Fire lancers can charge and torch. But can't do either of those under duresse cause they are just souped up horsemen. They aren't worth the cost of knights, especially if you need 2 landmarks. They are already hardly worth teching into cause of cost. MAA are easier and just more versatile. A hail marry ineptitude gimmick check on your opponent in a nutshell.
@Marth6672 жыл бұрын
@@vesae2676 If you don't compound nerfs you'll be looking at an oppressive meta for the next month whilst you play test. This is what we had in aoe2. Nerf them, then tune them back up to a more reasonable level.
@davida50292 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I'm starting to rely on you a lot to figure out my game plan. I've been really wondering how inspired HRE units would do against or compared to their counter parts, like inspired HRE knights vs royal knights or inspired HRE crossbows vs arbalests, inspired archers vs longbows, bombards etc. Also how much better are warships with relics in docks. Thanks again for these videos.
@MrThedumbbunny2 жыл бұрын
So its a horseman with a small gold cost instead of extra food... that is great vs siege and buildings and beats everything except light cav hard counters and mangadai. To add to that they invalidate almost all other units in the game. Who the fuck thought this was a good idea?
@kouriger93902 жыл бұрын
I wish you had gone a bit more into the balance of the Chinese needing to get castle age twice to unlock them.
@kouriger93902 жыл бұрын
How is that not a problem in team games?
@ChosenPlaysYT2 жыл бұрын
Having splash dmg, high mobility, and destroying buildings shouldn’t be 3 things 1 unit has all 3.
@AiurMedia2 жыл бұрын
yep, gotta take off the bonus against buildings and keep them fragile, like hellions in starcraft
@jandemetz79732 жыл бұрын
Hey Age of Noob is that you playing the guitar in the outro. Just curious
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
I wish mate, I wish. :D
@ThatGuanfranco2 жыл бұрын
Great video man. You hit gold on this one.
@yathi2 жыл бұрын
This deserves a sub!
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support :)
@BSEUNHIR2 жыл бұрын
I think you should factor the cost of the yuan dynasty in to the fire lancer cost. It's 1800 resources + build time just to unlock them. That's a lot in the castle age. But yeah the AOE is a bit much.
@bokajon2 жыл бұрын
Yup with Yuan cost included it should be 37 spearmen instead of 15, and 12 knights instead of 5. Him ignoring this makes the entire unit analysis very misleading unfortunately.
@samfischer38612 жыл бұрын
Love the sheep at 1:07: "Helo iam strong unit as well, bäääää!!!"
@Ahmadabdal_2 жыл бұрын
dang man your production value is getting higher and higher
@noirhftam28242 жыл бұрын
China has a passive feudal age not to mention the risk of running double landmarks fast castle to unlock the fire lancers.. I think you should consider the dynasty system before commenting it OP. After all, it comes with a trade.
@deusvult94392 жыл бұрын
Ok I consider it, still fucking op by all measure.
@connorm.2 жыл бұрын
I find that the fire lancers' AoE damage is only majorly a problem in the mid game, but towards the end-game heavily fall off. Knights (Especially French Royals) with upgrades in Imp age can easily trade and kill a Fire Lancer rush especially if the user isn't micro'ing them. Unfortunately though I have no clue how you are supposed to counter their siege damage and honestly the idea that they do Siege Engine level of damage as an extremely quick and cheap unit is insane to me. Personally I'd like to see their AoE radius tuned back, and their siege damage drastically dialled down. They are supposed to be a nuanced mico-managed unit good at wiping out melee forces, not base wiping cheap siege engines, nor god level army destroyers.
@S4ltyTar02 жыл бұрын
If you make the changes you suggested to Fire Lancers at the end of the video, what would be their purpose in army comp, and what reason would anyone have to invest 1,200 food and 600 gold in unlocking them?
@SuperLameRanger2 жыл бұрын
Yup that's the point. Why make them then? Why not just go for knights/lancers instead then? Lol... Wasted so much resource to get Yuan Dynasty to get a trash unit unlocked? I think they need to get nerf but maybe from cost to make them, not others. Fire Lancers are just too cheap to trade with enemies.
@Muenni2 жыл бұрын
Yuan isn't worthless without the unique unit, so you can hardly count the entire second landmarks costs towards the fire lancers. On the other hand, implementing all suggested 4 changes would be overkill, I think. +50% costs already effectively nerfs their fire damage, charge damage, survivability. That alone means they're much worse against knights. They'll deal as much torch damage against buildings as scouts, with fewer combined hp and lower base speed. It gets automatically worse in Imperial Age. Scouts can already keep up in dmg against siege, with that one change to 180 res scouts would greatly surpass them. Which is ok, as scouts cannot deal with anything else while the fire lancer can - but it means there's no reason to increase the cost AND lower their torch damage.
@NemicoSurami2 жыл бұрын
@@Muenni You are suppose to combine it with the imperial palace and raid with them. They aren't suppose to make up your entire army composition. They are suppose to pick at villager lines and kill small static defense like outposts.
@Muenni2 жыл бұрын
@@NemicoSurami They were obviously designed to burn down buildings and siege as well, not just pick off villagers. Why else would they get the special torch damage no other unit gets? If they intended them to be able to deal with outposts, ranged armour would've worked better than triple torch damage. I can't really imagine the aoe damage to be intended solely for picking off villagers in the late game either, tbh. What makes you say that this is their intended (and only) use?
@stewie44672 жыл бұрын
this was a fantastic breakdown, thank you
@TommyFit72 жыл бұрын
Fire lancers, approach HRE: I fear no man. but that thing... it scares me
@TommyFit72 жыл бұрын
P.S. i think HRE should have a unique unit for the spear line instead of the + 3 melee armor that is useful only vs other spearmen
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Landsknechts, circa 1498.
@forexjammer2 жыл бұрын
@@AgeofNoob we need Pike variant of Landsknechts
@patrickwailui18642 жыл бұрын
The current state of the game is that, if you play HRE and the opponents playing Chinese lose against you, they somehow need to play that game much much worse than you.
@TommyFit72 жыл бұрын
@@forexjammer yeah that's what i was thinking about
@deoskipsbasics Жыл бұрын
Hey, nice video. Btw, what's the name of the song that starts playing at 16:27?
@ObiwanNekody2 жыл бұрын
Like the intro graphic!
@Kuzushi422 жыл бұрын
i love dying in 30 seconds as Abbasid in team games to this.
@stevanvieira36652 жыл бұрын
Thanks, great video
@Irythia2 жыл бұрын
Im gonna write this having argued against a lot of people complaining about fire lancers as a mainly china player, i have 450 hours on AOE4, most of that time was playing china, rus and Delhi (pre bugged delhi), in all these matches i can count with the fingers of ONE hand how many times ive lost to fire lancers and i have faced a LOT of them. The thing with fire lancers and grenadiers is that they ARE supposed to be strong due to them being expensive to unlock, YES, I KNOW you can get them at minute 12 or 13 if you dont get harassed, but thats not how the game works, its like "Oh let me let you get a huge eco and produce a shitton of firelancers while i do nothing to stop you but if you kill me then fire lancers are op :(" thats not how it goes. Ill name some tips on what to do against firelancers: 1 - Dont let china get to them, thats the "easiest", if you halt their economy and harass them, denying them space (remember china has a poor early game) and killing a few workers, if they dont build a real army you can easily end the game before they even get to castle/Firelancers. 2- Build walls, IT IS realistic to build walls in your game against china if you fail to halt their economy or just ignore them, firelancers do well in most their match ups but so do knights, french and rus will pump them as early as feudal, if you dont counter them you die, its not very hard. 3- KEEPS. AROUND. YOUR. LANDMARKS. this one is not well known and people go "bUt IlL HaVe To bUiLd 9 KeEpS", you could have tried attacking, but you didnt, so now you have to do something to stop them, what works about keeps is their oil damage, it shreds firelancers due to their low hp and tendency to stack around buildings, this does even better if you play HRE. 4- Scouting, firelancers are cheap, yes, but most china players (Me included) tend to build all the stables in a single spot so they can redirect them more easily or just to not spend time finding stables, you can easily get those stables destroyed as they occupy a pretty big space, also, scouting gives you the information if they are going firelancers or not, they need both T3 landmarks to produce them and if they get them very early they are costly (Even if their cost per unit is low, they need big numbers) 5- AOE, your mangonels are a very strong tool against firelancers due to, again, their tendency to stacking when they torch down buildings, this will do even better with keeps around that will pick low health firelancers. Also, you will most likely not win an attrition war due to firelancers price and production speed, so the way to go is to all in them, specially in team games (where they are most problematic) focusing down china is a great strat, i have been playing FFAs in custom games lately and if i get to focus china once i get my armies i will do it. Nonetheless i DO agree firelancers are too cheap, having their cost increased to 90 30 30 is what i personally would think its okay. It was a nice video overall but i didnt really enjoy the last part, it demonizes them as an "uncounterable" unit when they are not as hard to stop as people make them look, un fun to play against? I dont know, i find less fun having my workers charged by french knights that 2 shot them at feudal age, then they run, heal whatever damage they were dealt and do it again.
@SamuraiHonor2 жыл бұрын
Funny your experiences and remarks mirror my own, both as a china main and having gone against them. Except I am an exclusively 1 v 1 focussed player. I feel it's a new strat as well and people just haven't tried what works. While normal horsemen / knight style counters work fine. This whole experiment and it's conclusion is based on a premise in a void. A straight up engagement. That is maybe 1/6th of the the things in this game, and it's the last one too. All the ones before that could've already stopped the 6th situation or stopped it from going the way it did in the examples.
@bokajon2 жыл бұрын
I agree completely. Fire Lancers are very hard to pull off if the opponent knows what he is doing.
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
You need to understand that 450 hours of 1v1 in a game that has been out like a month is not a good benchmark for player experience. Fire lancers ruin team games, playing vs 4 chinese is not fun, so I won't play. This game will never take off.
@Irythia2 жыл бұрын
@@MrReno888 Youre assuming its 450h of 1v1 when 1v1 is my least played mode, i have like 30-40 games of 1v1, 200 ish of 2v2 and theres no way to count how many FFA, 3v3/4v4 in customs ive had, but for sure a lot. Also, they dont ruin games, Pre nerf french hulk or mongol TC rush IS something that ruined games, not an unit that is locked behind 2800 food and 1000 gold and needs to be in big numbers to work and gets countered fairly easily, if you do nothing to either dont let china get them or let them inside your base its a YOU fault, not games fault. Also, talking about torching down buildings, mongols have a strat that consists in spamming scouts nonstop and doing the same as firelancers but being much more effective due to the time of the attack, so please stop being so loud about firelancers being op when the only thing that may be wrong with them is their slightly lower than it should be cost.
@JetMinOoiDemonicAngel992 жыл бұрын
This experiment analysis is quite useful, but this is a lab test result. On live play, there are quite alot of decent players who can micro away and bait charges which just render it less effective, plus unit composition varies from players to players, since it would be foolish to only build one type of unit. Also the fact that players can just use stagger or wedge formation is enough to reduce the charge damage effectively. Maybe the line formation would work as well since the damage would be spread. I agree that they should remove the anti-building thing they have, it doesn't make sense that they took over the role of siege units and should have the same damage as the rest of the calvary units. Instead, maybe also allow fire lancers to do their charge attack on sieges for the bonus damage and after revert to torch damage after the charge. As for the resources cost, I can't say for sure increasing the unit cost would be good idea, especially when they would already spend vital resources to build the Landmarks to reach the Yuan dynasty, otherwise resources that could be used for techs or Imperial. It feels like the dev tried to offset the initial cost needed to unlock the unit by making it cheaper to produce. As a Chinese main myself, I felt that the dev could nerf the bonus discount from the Spirit Way, as I find myself easy to pump them out with low cost. Or they could reduce the HP of Fire Lancer to be more vulnerable to other unit since they already have low armor to begin with. That way they should be at least give other calvary unit a more favourable engagement.
@christopher35562 жыл бұрын
I quit the game already due to a small group of firelancers, horsemen, scouts, etc. being able to take out 3 LMs in under 5 seconds if your army is away, say defending an ally or something. There's not even enough time to put up stone walls on most maps if the build is done correctly. I hate it even when my allies do it because I know we didn't deserve the win, and it takes almost no skill at all to pull off. I should be able to have my army at an allies base not to far away to help defend for a bit without worrying about losing in 5 seconds to a cheap horse rush that circumvents my army.
@MattSmith-il4tc2 жыл бұрын
I haven't quit... but you're absolutely right. It takes zero skill. A couple days ago I tried playing Chinese for the first time. I sucked. No idea how to do a proper build. Didn't really understand how to use the imperial official mechanic... but still I managed to mass a bunch of fire lancers and take out my opponents' landmarks in a team game. It's so stupid.
@halfgood13162 жыл бұрын
If you halved the fire lancers HP they would retain most of their characteristics as explosive, high threat units. But they would also be countered better by the units they should be. The unit needs to feel like a baneling for it to work as a fast moving, high damage, anti-ground, anti-siege, anti-building unit. If it's not a kamikaze type unit, then you will have to remove its damage against either infantry, siege or buildings.
@halfgood13162 жыл бұрын
And perhaps if upgrades like Court Architects reduce incoming damage by a flat amount, that would help too..
@wertin2002 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the great content. I do have a question regarding the music, where can i find it? I do like the song at 13:33.
@jiongyx-39502 жыл бұрын
Chinese is not easy to survive till yuan dynasty tho,they are just too weak in early game.
@deusvult94392 жыл бұрын
They are equal to other civ, defensive landmark + sho ku no are ok
@magawengway2 жыл бұрын
Really liked how you explained the FL rush at the end and how stupid the backseating redditor suggestions to stopping it are like "just build more walls lol", not to mention I'm happy you mentioned the fun factor being lost when you play against it. Staggered AoE charge damage and a reduction to their torch damage sound pretty good to be honest, keeping them raiders and good against range and siege is important but as of now they're too lame to face against. Personally, from when I have done it once or twice on release, the FL rush requires no skill and as a landmark victory it just feels cheap and hollow.
@doppelganger4852 жыл бұрын
Spread your spearmans, spears counters their charge, that's all
@bigminigame2 жыл бұрын
Hey, do you think it would be worth it to build a web app that allows you to create/share/view build orders for aoe4 ? Would you personally use it ?
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
Hey mate - I know those solutions do exist for AOE2, so they would definitely be used by the AoE4 community as well. I'd do a quick search if something similar exists though before starting the project :)
@funnytom15022 жыл бұрын
The examples are way too isolated. Having two armies attack each other straight on is not how you prove a point about game balance. Mangonels absolutely destroy firelancers in seconds but you wouldn't just have them attack the firelancers straight on. You would guard them with spears.
@Crovea2 жыл бұрын
Good video! Wish you would test with some more realistic army mixes with spears mixed in, or even better, look at actual footage from other streamers
@MrReno8882 жыл бұрын
I think you missed the point where fire lancers can completely avoid spears due to speed, and all the streamer footage you're talking about is high lvl 1v1s (where they aren't a problem)... tons of people want to play team games in aoe4 and these units ruin any semblance of fun because due to map size you can always mass them easily
@camilguzman64882 жыл бұрын
When ever I play agaisnt Chinese I never let them get to the late game so I never had this problem
@AlexGarcia-wz9bm2 жыл бұрын
Good luck in 3v3 or 4v4
@ImaginaryMdA2 жыл бұрын
The opportunity cost is massive, though. Given that you need the Yuan dynasty.
@xuZty2 жыл бұрын
I'd like for you to read that sentence again & really sit down and think about if that is a logical argument to make.
@SamuraiHonor2 жыл бұрын
@@xuZty shaming doesn't work if he's just straight up right. Git gud.
@shiinondogewalker28092 жыл бұрын
@@xuZty of course it makes sense. else we can compare elite archers to normal archers and ask ourselves why the elite archers are so much better when they cost the same
@bokajon2 жыл бұрын
True. It costs a whopping 1800 resources to get to Yuan dynasty.
@xuZty2 жыл бұрын
@@bokajon In a 1v1 I can see your point. However the majority of games played are team games. Those resources especially with access to professional scouts and tax officials is not a heavy toll to take at all for the best unit in the game. Not even including Spirit Way into the equation.
@gamingdayshuriken41922 жыл бұрын
Excellent ;) ! Thanks :)
@HENTAICOMBO2 жыл бұрын
well you use attack command not attack move so i can't really tell if engage correctly what will happans but i can tell that FL charge is very broken thank for a great video!
@dragonkingofthestars2 жыл бұрын
I also noted that you didn't cover how they function in Imperial age since there a castle age unit.
@loudradialem52332 жыл бұрын
It's hard to balance the dynastic UU because it's expensive to unlock them, they need to be good to justify it, but they can't be overwhelming either.
@dragonkingofthestars2 жыл бұрын
while not argueign the result: why didn't you have seige weapons fire at the fire lances?
@gennadyzyablitsev50312 жыл бұрын
thank for this job.
@emanon20012 жыл бұрын
Half of the Chinese player I met just spamming fire lancers. It is sick as the Springald before nerfed.
@Mrdarklink672 жыл бұрын
When I heard the background music from The Last of Us 2 at 18:00, I strated having PTSD...
@Hatege2 жыл бұрын
Can u update the stat after the nerf?
@Hazen872 жыл бұрын
Basically don't even bother playing HRE and if you do play against them you have to mine all the stone on the entire map to make walls everywhere and then die to Chinese siege.
@MeeKrob10002 жыл бұрын
So since HRE's spears are bugged, massing Fire-lancers is a freewin?
@SuperLameRanger2 жыл бұрын
What bug is it?
@MrIronhat2 жыл бұрын
They can not brace atm
@SuperLameRanger2 жыл бұрын
@@MrIronhat daheck? Age of bugs.. Only HRE spearman affected?
@MrIronhat2 жыл бұрын
@@SuperLameRanger apparently Delhi spearman as well
@nougatflush18052 жыл бұрын
Please do Palace Guards, I don't understand their purpose. They have less armor than men at arms. What's the point of building them?
@JetMinOoiDemonicAngel992 жыл бұрын
Unsure, maybe the extra HP offsets the armor deficit. Need testing to see if they can stand up fairly against other generic or HRE MAA
@joachimhansen49672 жыл бұрын
High quality content!
@KurtisRainboltGreene2 жыл бұрын
The only thing you didn't mention is that with an imperial officer they train in 5s.
@BigElectrician2 жыл бұрын
Have you done a video on the Chinese men at arms?
@somebodyintheworld50362 жыл бұрын
I main China and France. Id like to see them changed into a cycle charging, open field battle and raiding unit. Remove or nerf their damage against buildings. Nerf their charge a little cos its a bit strong. But I like the open field army battles where I cycle charge different waves of firelancers, its pretty fun gameplay. Also, nerf their cost pls. My favourite strat is to build a spirit way out in the middle of nowhere, spam stables near it and get them super cheap.
@ruizhu10092 жыл бұрын
In noob games, FL does look OP. However, FL is pretty much the first unit of China that end the game, and it needs 2 of the third age landmarks before you can even make them. They perform extremely bad in maps that have narrow choke points, which are generally the maps you want to play China. Opponents can easily wall themselves in those maps and as a Chinese player, the only option will be clock tower bombards. In open maps, it is pretty hard to keep alive as China before you can even make FLs. The opponents can generally pressure you so much in early game so that when you get your third age FLs masses, they already have forth age armies with decent upgrade. As a main China player, I can tell you that in 1vs1 games, I have way lower winning rate in the games that I decided to mass FLs than to drag it a little more for bombards.
@cyrano-553910 ай бұрын
yes they are really difficult to play (and guys, team game is another world, fire lancer are as annoying as knight its just called run by the stratzgy itself its annoying)
@gobuddygo84672 жыл бұрын
This is very misleading misinformation. You completely ignored the Yuan dynasty costs. You keep saying "with equal resources" but it's actually not even close to equal resources. The Fire Lancer player has 1800 resources less than his opponent. 1800 resources is A LOT of units!
@ClemsonASC2 жыл бұрын
It's almost like they could use that 1800 resources to build keeps and mangos around important landmarks.
@tradingaid2 жыл бұрын
@@ClemsonASC Yes 1 mangonel at each landmark is going to prevent it right?
@ClemsonASC2 жыл бұрын
@@tradingaid no 3 mangonels at 1 landmark prevent a loss while you kill his base.
@deusvult94392 жыл бұрын
ahahahahah. Lol.
@harryloo85442 жыл бұрын
You need to factor in the cost to being able to make fire lancers in the first place
@kyonte1002 жыл бұрын
Economy was never a problem with a decent Chinese player.
@NielsvanZon2 жыл бұрын
insanely overpowered unit
@khalidgagnon87532 жыл бұрын
I've seen the fire lancer sniping..... Gasp
@SoloWaggin2 жыл бұрын
Oh no people are catching on
@peter-bu5tz2 жыл бұрын
12:38 ( Tower elephants: am i a joke to you)
@merdufer2 жыл бұрын
With better spread micro you can take them on with horse archers.
@HENTAICOMBO2 жыл бұрын
Age of noob: explain about how broken FL is Me: think about how gun? at the tip of the spear work
@HawtDaawwgg2 жыл бұрын
it was crazy seeing posts about fire lancers and so many people dismissing it just saying liek you said "JuSt BuIlD sToNe WaLl" ect rofl
@AgeofNoob2 жыл бұрын
When the game is new, it's easy to dismiss things as folks overreacting. But yes, I don't think that's the case with the Fire Lancers though. :)
@LifeguardLeroy2 жыл бұрын
so the HRE just straight up have no counter to these beside stone walls?
@JoseSilva-wv2sh2 жыл бұрын
Yes they are
@devangnivatkar26492 жыл бұрын
Them decimating Horsemen @ equal costs, wrecking M@A i.e. a 'heavy' unit while being a 'light melee' unit themselves, and trading so well against another heavy unit i.e. Knights seems a bit problematic. The test against Landsnek was disgusting to watch.
@yc51172 жыл бұрын
Crossbows are a light unit as well, armor class doesn't have anything to do with what it is effective against
@devangnivatkar26492 жыл бұрын
@@yc5117 So what is this unit not effective against? I'm only seeing Spearmen being effective due to the brace
@yc51172 жыл бұрын
@@devangnivatkar2649 Spearman, Camels, Elephants, and Knights. But also literally anything in a spread formation or using some split micro. Once these guys lose their charge attack, they're just horseman, and horseman are not good against anything.