Of course scottie doesnt want the catch up mechanics of gammas. He makes a ton of gold from gdkps.

Cata hype. Will tune in every week. Let’s go!

Thank you for the cata content! I’m really hyped for it and videos like this are only feeding the hype!

Enjoyed this discussion quite a bit. I played so much cata skipping college classes. I’m about to go all in on it lol

Dad gamer and Cata enthusiast here. I'd wager there are quite a few people like myself who have aged out of guild raiding now because the rigid schedule is incompatible with family life. But we still want gear progression beyond basic 5-man normal & heroic. Mounts/cosmetics/leaderboard are cool, but they're not my reason to keep logging in. Give me harder and harder 5-man content that rewards actual gear (not cosmetics). Sure, make the skin look worse than the raid gear so we know who the "real gamers" are (eyeroll at Scotty's comment about 5-mans not counting as playing the game). The more 5-man content you give me, the more hours I spend in Wow between diaper changes.

This is why people stop playing or dont play wow. It took you guys 30 min till you started talking about gatekeeping 😂😂

the whole debate at the start regarding 5man dungeon catch up vs simply doing the raid. they could just add those ''scourgestones'' or whatever it is in the previous' phase raid so that people would do it to get their loot and if they don't get it atleast they get some emblems to eventually get the loot?

CATA HYPE, love all your content mate tuning in for all your videos! got a random maybe even stupid question, im working out the quest im going to have as pre quest preparing into cataclysm and im wondering if daily quest work and gives xp for example picking up all the dailys in dun nifflaem, tournament grounds and the zeppelin in icecrown its 25 quest on a very dense area but does it work?

Great vid

scotte you are completely out of touch on the 5 man raid loot thing. Completely out of touch. I had to use 5 man gamma dungeons to get a trinket everyone and their mom won over myself. This isn't a one dimensional thing. You are wrong my friend.

I like the idea of 5man dungeons having specific items and types of gear, transmogs or achievements from raids. E.g. the Soul Preserver trinket in wotlk, which was only available from normal CoS, which was the #1 trinket for holy paladins (and in some cases, still is) - no matter how much you raided, you could not get a better trinket for this class and spec. Having similar unique items being rare drops from dungeons, having achievements available, transmogs, etc, would make 5mans still relevant throughout the expansion, without them giving actual raid gear (which should only come from raiding, imo).

What about doing it the same way as retail, you giving the same items from dungs all the time but they ilvl upgrade of the dung item. And to be honnest Puging raids are horible for gear proggesion. If you find the wrong groupe you will never get anything out of it

I think one of the biggest issues people had with the world revamp was really* that the old world was gone forever and they couldnt access it. I wonder if Classic era existing will ease this entire issue.

Did you guys talk about Cata fresh severs?

buffing 5 mans would be huge

If you are raid locked out by raids, you never will catch up to current content. You have to put them into dungeons so people can spam them and actually catch up. That's why its called "catch up" gear

You have to keep in mind, that public-beta builds are often several hundred fixes or weeks behind the development server. A lot of what’s been reported will likely get patched all at once.

I feel like then point about counter spell at 9 for the murlocs in Elwyn is 100% the reason we get it at 9 😂

Is there any chance to get that spreadsheet link? ❤

👍🏻 Gho you smell. Defly lookin fwd to the next cata episode! thx

I 100% agree with you on gammas taking away from raids Scotte. I have tried organizing Ulduar runs in the ToC phase and it was an absolute nightmare. Whenever you make raids like that people say "oh just do dungeons for the gear". But what about the people that enjoy raiding the raid? At least in TBC you had people still doing Kara during the Sunwell phase.

What if they make Gamma gear a higher Ilvl than heroics gear w/ no set bonus like the raid gear has. That way the raid gear is still much better

Go go

Go You Smell 👍

When are you going to get a St. Louis Cardinals hat??

CATA HYPE!

We need the under water raid we never got at Throne of the Tides

It’s almost as if the people hating on Cataclysm either didn’t play or didn’t remember how fun the leveling and max level content was.

as far as tanking goes threat from memory was never an issue, without any vengence you can still hold threat, vengence just made threat generation insane

Gho you smell 👍. First time I've ever seen your podcast. I'm also a returning player from log ago, dipped my toes in with SoD but now I'm leveling up some chars ahead of cata.

When Firelands come out you can buy raid 359 ilvl gear with Justice Points and normal Firelands gear with Valor Points. Not everything but a lot of things. I don't know what would gamma dungeons drop. The gear you can already buy by doing HC dungeons?

55:51 I don't get these odd balls. Scottejaye is RIGHT

Also, there's two things I still want to do in Wrath - but they aren't going to happen (before prepatch, at least). I want to raid 25 man again and for my casual guild to beat Lich King heroic. Can't raid 25 man because my raiding guild barely survived Christmas downgrading to 10 man, casual guild isn't quite capable of HLK 10 man even though everything else is very comfortable (and I hate to say it - it is a skill issue). Prepatch might bring people back and will give a chonky buff to our characters - so doing both might be doable then. Just not now. Right now the longer we wait the more likely my friends will quit the game and not come back.

Gammas work fine. I’ve had so many good groups. More good groups than bad. I’m on mankirk

👍 Go you sleep Scotte!

I'm aware that both Goblin and Wogen are available, but as you just said a few seconds before commenting on how they haven't done internal testing of the Goblin (and Wogen) zones... Latest blue post still says: "At this time, the following are unavailable for testing in the Cataclysm beta: ... Goblins and Worgen Races" Even though we could create them, the official message was still that they weren't ready for testing. So we really can't complain about a blocked quest and I 100% think they were fully aware that Goblins were blocked. IT'S A BETA. If something doesn't work as expected, report it and move on, there are many other races to test, many other zones to test, many other quests to test. As you've all said yourselves, this is not a final product, but you seem to fall straight down the same pitfall as many players do. And considering how much has changed in Cata, it's not really any worse than the other Cata betas! Regarding inviting too many players this will always be an issue. Whom should you invite or not invite? Being a streamer or knowing Cata does not necessarily make you good at QA! I'm a nobody (software engineer) who signed up for the beta immediately. I'm so happy that I got invited. I love beta testing and I always sign up to test games I like. I made a Wogen. That required som parkour but was doable. Reported the lack of water as well. Jumped around exploring areas I wasn't supposed to. It's rare to get a view without water and especially the Wogen zone is quite interesting. Finally fell into a crack in the ground, got stuck, couldn't hearth out... Oh well, I knew what I was doing... I then made a Goblin, got stuck at a flying shark who was excellent at evading. I guess Moses split the waters... Reported it and moved on... Leveled a Draenei Shaman in their starting zone... Leveled a Human Mage to experience some of the changes to the world and quests... Moses brought the water back... I could finally get out of my Wogen hole, so that's the character I've continued on and still play on. Expect bugs... Expect blocked progression... Report it. But most of all... Don't cry about it! And regarding mass reporting. I'm sure they have a filter system for dealing with reports. Even the global feedback/bug reports that aren't linked to a specific item, quest or other feature. It really shouldn't be that big a deal if people report something that is not a bug, but their own mistake for not reading a quest. The state of this beta is perfectly fine as a beta. Whether or not they were forced to release it now or not, I really don't know, but it doesn't matter anyways. The only real issue is how silent Blizzard is. Even just a few words saying they're not yet ready to speak would be fine. Just knowing they're there would be fine. Knowing what to test and what's known to be broken would be nice, but essentially one can assume that we need to test everything related to leveling and traversing the revamped zones.

Is not getting mage food until 38 reeeeeaaally a big deal? Seems so strange to argue that when end game is 85 and… you can just go buy water

Who cares if people get the old gear easier? how does this effect you in any way? You are an established player, with loads of people that you know. Things are much, much easier for you than for those of us that play with 2-3 friends for 2 hours a night. It doesn't matter.

I dont enjoy raiding, but I love dungeons. Adding more difficulty to dungeons (that also drops relevant gear) would be great imo. It doesn’t cut content, because I don’t raid, so it only adds content.

The dungeons are harder than raids in cata so chill out Scott

we also had ppl that still needed the legendary healing weapon from ulduar and ppl did NOT want to go back. It has nothing to do with the gear being available in 5 mans. If you want ppl to go into old raids, you have to give NEW incentive. Like the quests they had for the one boss kill but it has to be more than that. it is difficult to get ppl to do old raids. I am also one of those that would like to run alts through old content but unless it is face roll easy, ppl will not want to do it. PPL want to do other stuff in the game besides raiding. So they raid 2-3 nights, they want to do other stuff on the off days. not go back and do OLD raids. they want to farm, run heroics, run battlegrounds. The argument hat ppl that don't raid do not have a need for raid gear is also rediculous. Everything you do in the game benifits from having better gear. You don't get gear just to raid. you get gear to make life easier.

This dude has the most cooked takes, most of these podcasts degen into crying and complaining.

go - you smell. And I like it ;-) /run away

cater clysm

Scotte go play retail. Some dudes touch grass and dont have the time to sit there for 4 hours doing older content with pugs. Im a guy who can raid once or twice a week and I compete both speed running and parsing. In between i maybe have an hour here or there. Gammas are absolutely amazing.

Ok, how da fuck you got down rag H and not Sinestra? Rag was whole new level of heroic

You give di to a mage you're doing it wrong. Di is shadow prio followed by boomy

Hi, please don't take this the wrong way, but would it be possible to cut it down to the important moments for the game? This is so long that even I can't finish it.

All rbgs were 10v10

remember that time in lk classic and all the xtra gear from Heroic+ gamas droped and people could not get 3d done or 10man uldar? all this extra gear dose not change a lack of simple skill . logs and parse are cancer but there a product of crap players

Scotty having a tantrum if you want out of phase gear, Jesus Christ mate, get over it. It’s no longer relevant for you, let people have their gear.

I don't know about wow anymore - it's a fun game but the problem is the people who play it are fking cooked

I know they wont do it, but it would be sick if they would do a fresh start cata server.

100% agree with Scotte that gammas and that style of catch up loot system don't have a place in Cata. And frankly I didn't like them in Wrath that much. I'd much rather go knock out old raids than spam the same dungeons I've been doing since bloody launch of the expac. I didn't play a lot of gammas because I liked it, it's because they were the most efficient way of getting some gear on an alt or even main which everyone else realized and you couldn't even do full runs of old raids if you wanted to.

Tier from dungeons was a good idea, forget the guy who said it wasn't.

Remove titanrune dungeons, it's unnecessary. The main complaint of wow from cata onwards was it was "too easy", "dumbed down", "catering for the socials too much" then you want to repeat these same issues in the classic version? Leave it alone, don't fix what isn't broken!

Shadow stating early in the podcast that you couldn’t pay him to play SoD and then near the end asking why people can’t just enjoy their version of WoW and drop the hate was quite funny.

You can't ruin content you werent gonna do. Does he not see the arguement? Wth 😅

I think the reason why ICC lasted so long is because blizzard did not expect to move to cataclysm afterwards.

Gho you smell 👍

👍Scottejaye you smell

👍🏻 Gho you smell

Hahaha I bet scotte was the one guy trying to save wow back in the day, raid gear from 5 mans is bad for many reasons... but for me raid gear should be from raids, don't just hand out trinkets willy nilly, makes nothing rare.

Is it just me or is scotty aging like a fine wine 🤔

Why doesn’t this dude want us with families/work be able to get some gear in 5 mans?😅

"the old world is gone" this is the mentality of the people stuck in SoD, always going back, the game is supposed to PROGRESS, moving forward, retail turned to shit, SoD is polishing a turd, when the players stop enabling blizzard releasing dogshit content or old content more than once for a 2nd chance then we will get an ACTUAL NEW EXPERIENCE, WoW 2. I've been saying this for years. Personally I'll be quitting classic when MoP is released because that's the worst gameplay ever was. Might go check out AoC if its released by then.

the raid elitisk approach is getting old, really the raiding is a shitty gameplay not because its badly done but because its filled with elitist unpleasant people who act like absolute retyards most of the time, and/or you have to commit to a raiding schedule with a guild if you want to find more down to earth people to raid with. All in all, committing a real time schedule to play a game or be joined into a group of tryhard retyards are both things that are sucks in life. In any and all MMO's should be respect for all types of players, should be able to get top level gear not only through 1 activity, but through raiding, dungeoneering, pvp and crafting should all have viable ways - there might even be far more effort required to get gear through gathering/crafting than through raiding to to show those raiders they are a special little snowflakes stilll.

I'm with Scotte don't mess with loot progression in Cata. I do want longetivity for 5 mans, but give it to us in the form of challenge modes for cosmetics: mounts, non-combat pets, transmog only gear.

i said it since vanilla gear should be the best at... pve gear for pve and no good in raids and pvp pvp gear for pvp and no good in raids and pve Raid gear for raids no good in pve and pvp Pve is something that always gets ignored and should have epic and above chains that take 1/2 a phase nerfs from pvp is cancer that ruins everything for environment and raids imagine 5 times the drops but you need to run the raids in order to progress ie phase run and up

Your statment is wrong. You said "adding 5man, but removing raid content" . No no no , that is not what is happening. Its adding 5man QUEUE content, instead of raid. The reason is simple, casual joe cant get a spot in a raid, because people gatekeep. IF you can queue, you force people together. The reason queueing is so BIG in retial, is because casuals get FORCED into groups. People don't like to be gatekeept. Your mindset "if they don't have the time to raid, why get the gear" People love gear to do open world easier or to look cool. The mindset you just said, is the reason reatil is gotten worse each year. most people in wow is casauls, you saying 80% (random number, but its BIG) Fuck em.

Ghoo you smell

How the hell do these people know if I ran gammas for fun or not? Jesus christ you guys cry alot. Not surprised people that make tons of gold from gdkps don't want catch up mechanics

Cata 'Heroic+' dungeons should only give threethings: more valour, achievements and cosmetics. The gear isn't necessary. Maybe add more items to the vendors that help fill gaps in gearing, just at a similar item level. The moment you add actual tangible power to 5 mans they become sweaty and elitist, thus not being the path to a new player getting gear anyway and defeating the purpose. A bit like how original LFR was immediately abused for set bonuses and trinkets.

That whole argument around 5 man gammas being for players with limited time doesn't add up. It takes far far far longer to gear through gammas than it does through raids on a fresh toon.

the expansion already has plenty of catchup mechanics. it's an MMO not a single-player RPG. Devs shouldn't cater to people that are only playing 5-10hr a week. You can do 7 random heroics for valor points that buy current ilvl gear and you can do them all in 1 day or spread out through the week whenever you have time unlike WotLK where you have to do 1 gamma per day for the dailies. Each rep has like 4 359 epics (usually 1 item each for tank/dps/caster/healer), then when Firelands comes out, we get ZA/ZG and the Molten Front which adds more catch up gear that is unlocked via doing dailies for a week or 2. Dragon Soul brings 3 dung just like ICC did for even more catchup gear. There's BiS items from the previous raid tier for multiple people at every stage of Cataclysm. T11 has a couple BiS items for some people in Firelands, Firelands has the legendary for people to work on after Dragon Soul comes out along with multiple BiS items for people over anything available in Dragon Soul (agi back and caster neck are top off the top of my head)

I could not disagree more with Scottie on the old raid loot being moved into dungeons. That was one of the best things that Blizz has ever done. Also, the push for challenge mode stuff needs to stop. You are full of crap when you say challenge mode dungeons were the most popular thing in original. That is a lie. Just because it was something YOU enjoyed, didn't make it the most popular. Challenge modes are what led to mythic plus speed race mode nonsense. But they are worse because they lower your gear. The ENTIRE purpose of an MMO is to increase the power of you character by LEVEL and by GEAR. Anytime you force ppl to lower their gear to do content is BAD. We want to get better gear to make content easier. That is the game and it needs to always be based on that. Challenge modes are for ppl that are bored. Not to make content relevent. Do challenge modes for old raids if you want to make them relevent.

The classic argument "I don't have time" that's a you problem mate.

Let stop work on cata…. And focus more on Sod?.

separate the lockouts, enable people to do 10 and 25 without loot penalties, it was one of the worst decisions they made because it split the player base. Its going to be shorter than original and blizzard need to stop being so stingy with loot.

most of the time 10m was more difficult so bragging rights were reserved for 10m guilds.

I dont get why you guys are trying so hard. Classic dies with wrath. We’re now going into retail cathegory, and with SoD being so popular i dont see cata being the success story that tbc and wrath was. You can also already play Cata on a private server. Nah, i dont see any hype for cata at all, except from you guys.

i played cata and loved it back in the day. my fear is blizzard will ruin the gearing in cata. its perfect. it does not take long to raid. we raided on 4 characters back in cata because it was so easy to raid. raid logging on 1 toon really doesn't take that long. catch up gear is perfect. its more about mechanics and knowing your class than gear. uber casuals and hardcore raiders are pretty similar. its just skill.

Big disagree with Scotty in an hour in. In dragon flight you can get tier from m+ and people still raid. If they add gamma dungeons in Cata it's not going to kill the raid content. People are always going to raid.

Gho you smell 👍

Gho you smell 👍