I'm a single, 43-year-old father who resides in Hamburg. If everything continues to go well for me, I intend to retire at age 50. I couldn't be happier right now than I am that I just bought my first house last month. I'm so happy that I made wise choices that altered my life forever.

I'm a fan of any movement that disrupts the idea of working 40 hours or more a week until we're too old to enjoy it. My husband and I were interested in the fire movement. We also don't have kids, but we paid off our house and now only one of us works: me. I also want to retire early, but since the pandemic hit and I work from home, time that was previously spent commuting is now spent making tie dye, thrifting and sewing. I'm 40 years old and I thank my younger self profusely for saving, investing, and keeping low expenses. Whether it's retiring early or maybe just working 4 days a week or not commuting, any time I can get back now for fun stuff is huge and I am thankful for it.

It’s easy and not particularly useful to criticize the most extreme version of FIRE. For most people FIRE is living below your means, examining your values, setting realistic goals, and doing the math to figure out if you can retire before 60. Probably most people can’t (or won’t) do this but it is an idea many can consider.

I think frugality is a virtue, not because it involves being cheap or stingy, but because it involves reflecting on what you value instead of consuming out of habit.

Retirement is wonderful if you have two essentials - much to live on and much to live for. Invest wisely and get good returns.

Hey Chelsea! Fun true story: A couple years ago, I started watching your financial independence videos and you made a mention of a steps counting app that you used for a while to get back into shape. It gave me the idea to continue listening to your youtube videos and later to your financial confession podcasts WHILE walking. I’ve been doing that ever since and have gotten back into shape. The app tells me I have walked the equivalent of 13 ironman triathlons since I started. Lost 50 pounds, got rid of high blood pressure, sleep apnea and back pains. I look like a million bucks now , so if only for that, I’d be your type. Thanks!

I see the FIRE movement similarly as people who are really into crossfit. Its certainly not for everyone, but I don't see it as a bad thing It's an extreme lifestyle that works for some but not for the majority. It generally doesn't affect anyone but the person who is doing it (unless you are FIREing by scamming/screwing over other people somehow of course).

What i like about FIRE: the idea that you should not mindlessly spend your entire paycheck every month, and especially that you should not mindlessly upgrade to a more expensive lifestyle as your career picks up steam. What i don't like about FIRE: the focus on passive income in ways that often take advantage of poor people (such as becoming a landlord), and just in general that the movement is mostly about people who _can_ save half their salary and still live comfortably enough

I met a woman at the condo mail boxes the first day of her retirement. She told me she was now going to start doing the things that she put off doing because of working. She dropped dead of a heart attack 7 days later at the very same mail boxes. How sad.

My philosophy is financial freedom. I'm not focused on retirement. I do want to live below my means, build investments and passive invome and have the freedom to choose what I do.

I’m a software engineer and moved to a high cost of living area to avoid commuting costs, then moved back to a low cost of living area during covid to WFH and achieve FIRE. Now my job wants people to go back in to the office. Needless to say I’m fighting it, and if I lose, I’m switching jobs.

As a Washington DC suburban mom, the busyness is bred into kids. It’s a competition for these target moms to get their kids into all things every minute of the day. Kids don’t know the value of calm, rest, peace, and the ability to just be in a simple way.

80/20 Stocks Bonds 36 yo, November was good, struggle to put away 4% these days because of so many mid-life bills. I now make around 120k a year, My aim to make dividend returns as i work to retire early, but how do i achieve this?

My dad espoused FIRE-esque values (albeit well before the acronym took hold), and it completely ruined my parents' marriage and their relationship with my brother and me. His fanatical saving/ investing put a huge strain on all of us, and they regularly gaslit us kids to think we were poor--but then bragged about their lack of debt whenever we compared our lifestyle to those of our friends. The divorce was extremely contentious and cost my brother and me our college funds and dad's hope of early retirement. I do understand the motivation to avoid wage slavery, but it's unwise to sabotage your personal relationships in the process and morally repugnant to make your children pay the bill.

If you have to be a landlord to do it it's not worth it. We are in a housing crisis and people turning a necessity to live into a retirement plan so they can retire at 40 is not fucking helping

Though I've never been a huge FIRE guy I felt super called out by your description of the early FIRE enthusiast. It's always struck me as odd that people who like me have hit the literal jackpot when it comes to the income to cost of living ratio, so many decide to deprive themselves of many of the joys of life. What's the point of racing towards a retirement when the person who will be retiring has defined themselves by not doing anything for fun except bragging that their only hobby is trading penny stocks? Life costs money, I've been lucky enough to get into things like woodworking at a younger age than many people because I have the disposable income to spend. The idea of not spending it for 30 years so I can retire early sounds like a great way to not get to do what I enjoy for 30 years, and then dying of boredom.

I think having an emphasis on "how would I rather spend my time if I had complete control over it" would be a better goal than the goal of living as frugally as possible and not contributing to society. I think most people would find that it isn't working that they hate, it's doing a job they don't care about!

In my opinion the healthcare costs, whether insurance or having to pay out of pocket, or just the stress of not knowing if you will be wiped out financially if you have a health crisis of any kind, is the largest detriment to a life where you could live with any financial security. And the U.S. has made it clear they will never fix this problem.

Studying for my CPA (Canada) and the tax system is fundamentally flawed and heavily favored towards home-owning (🏠1+) couples, with one higher earner than the other, who may or may not have kids. It taxes income, not assets -> so once you put money into an asset, the value isn't recycled back into the economy. Hence why boomers are holdjng onto 4+ bedroom homes for 2M dollars as retirement plans and rich people own things like art (which has special tax rules). Single, young people with middle income jobs who rent, are smoked by the tax system, paying extremely high taxes relative to their PPP. Taxes on rich doesnt work because their wealth isnt their income, its their net assets. Im so fcking tired of hearing societal gaslighting on this topic when the issue is the disproportionate tax benefits we have for certain segments of the population qhen they are already advantaged in so many ways through our tax systems. Drives me nuts and things like the FIRE movement (by the sounds of it) perpetuates this bs further. Also the capitalist "just reduce taxes" and they socialist "just offer more subsidies", both dont work because they tax rate isnt the issue, it's who keeps getting tax benefits (couples, with one higher earner, buying/owning a home). Changing who gets the tax benefits vs gets more taxes compared to their purchasing power is how to shift the framework, not more or less tax or doing the same thing over and over again.

I practice FIRE and I definitely have criticisms of it. Most of people in the U.S. can't achieve it because we do not have universal healthcare. If you do retire early, you are omitting the highest grossing salary years which often is at the end of your career. Most people who reach FIRE, don't retire; they often work on the side, start their own businesses, or jobs that they like. Also a lot of FIRE people geo-arbitrage to lower cost of living areas (even countries). They are essentially gentrifying entire cities and dramatically increasing the cost of living for the locals.

The r/financialindependence subreddit is super chill. I got my first job out of grad school in September and somehow stumbled upon that sub. They've taught be a ton and have always been super helpful with my questions. It is a little weird in that the majority of them are working in tech or engineering and making $100k+ however, even as a less than $60k government employee it's been very nice getting the FIRE perspective. I'm naturally quite frugal so it may work or it may not, but for now I'm putting away 40+% of my gross away so that I have the option if I want to take it.

It’s telling how the people who are early-FIRE leaning are focused on feelings, like being basic, while others are focused on the material realities of their current situation that hinders early FIRE goals. There’s a reason why people can do well in a high earning industry/ job and a low-expenses lifestyle, while investing the difference - it’s math. High earnings, especially in LCOL is the jackpot.

How early is "retire early"? I agree that retiring at age 29-35 is a bit extreme, but doing it at 50-55, which is still quite early, is possible for a lot more people. Actually, I think if you retire before your 64th year and 364th day, you are retiring early!

I really appreciate the nuance and willingness to course correct on this channel. It’s unusually healthy and all too needed in this age of us-them.

Can I just say that I appreciate tired Chelsea's lack of giving a damn? 😂 This has actually been one of my favorite videos in recent memory

Interesting to see this video, I started following Mr. Money Moustache in ~2015/2016, and as a result was really interested in FIRE for a few years. I do think Pete at least still has some pretty good investing advice, as well as a good anti-consumerism and low-car mindset, but beyond that, I've come to realize that FIRE is really unattainable for a lot of people because of the socioeconomic factors that you mention. I'd still listen to him over Dave Ramsey any day.

While FIRE takes privilege, I really do like the underlying ideals of freedom and time being the most valuable assets. Before I learned about FIRE, I just assumed I would work until I was 65 and that this should be normal.

What FIRE touches on is that traditional financial advice feels outdated. I was at a financial seminar put on by my company for people in their mid thirties to forties. The advice was that this was the time we needed to begin cutting our expenses. But the reality was, for most of us, this was when we were just finally able to afford a house and start thinking about kids. Most of us left discouraged that we would never be able to retire and we have traditional white collar jobs. FIRE feels more in touch with modern sentiments.

I appreciate this perspective of FIRE so much. A few years back during a stressful and exhausting time, I submitted a case a to MMM himself. The advice…or public shaming (as I recall it) basically told me to quit my job, sell my van and dedicate my life to maximizing efficiency in my home so my husband could work and we could save on child care (despite the fact that my income is 25 K higher) Needless to say, I didn’t do any of that. What I really needed in that time of my life was an acknowledgment that working full time with two little kids was hard. The most valuable lesson that I learned from the experience was never ask anyone on the internet for advice 😂

Your biggest argument against this movement is that its hyper individualistic and that it reeks of "every man for himself". And your solution, as every other democratic leaning person, is to live in a utopia where everyone joins hands and the government takes the right steps to help the people. But what everyone in the FIRE movement has come to terms with, is if you sit around whining and waiting for your goverment to make the right choices you're going to find yourself 60 years old with no possible way to retire. There is a reason why they took a "hyper individualistic" approach to finances, clearly their community and their authorities are not helping.

At first I was like "Imagine shilling for crypto in The Financial Diet comment section." Now I'm convinced it's a bunch of bots because this many people cannot be this ignorant to the actual content of the video or just have that much audacity.

The real problem is that passive income and getting it to live is basically that you want to move from the exploited to the exploiter. I saved so hard in my teens and early 20s. Worked so hard. I honestly feel like I wasted my youth. I'll never get that time back and that has impacts on my life. I never had a girlfriend and never will. I'm so socially awkward. My body is broken. Enjoy your life, live below your means. Keep enough saved to weather storms.

Retiring at age 29-35 is like scoring 20 points in the first quarter of a basketball game. That's not the finish line, and you can still lose the game. The finish line is the age when you can no longer physically work. That's when you HAVE to have a retireable amount of money -- just like in basketball where you have to have a winning score at exactly 0:00, not 5 seconds or 5 minutes earlier. In other words, whether you're into FIRE or not, you still have the same goal: achieve retirement when you are too old to work.

Ah yes, the first step to being a millionaire: start with a million dollars

I just wanna play League of Legends, hang out, read or learn in my free time. Not gonna make myself unhappy trying to achieve "financial independence". I know what it is like to be unhappy. I consider being happy such a privilege and a gift that I will spend most of my life wanting to be happy and being happy. Says someone who has struggled with depression most of their lives.

I know that there is a large chance that I will feel differently about this by the time I am 50-but-after being unemployed due to Covid and feeling absolutely miserable, I think I am the type of person that would enjoy working at least part-time until I am physically unable. Not because I just love toiling my life away, but because it gives me a loose structure to build around and some normalcy, if that makes sense.

Love this! I really got into FIRE a few years ago as a means for long-term financial stability and more control over my time. It didn't work for me to be super frugal and constantly optimize our lowish income in a HCOL area, and it's been a hard mentality to break. I saw stepping back from pursuing FIRE as a personal failure instead of (like you said) the current system being patently unfair and inaccessible to most of us. I'm trying to reframe my mentality and seeing TFD videos like this really help. Individual choices are fine on a small scale, but I really appreciate your focus on how we can make work/life balance better for everyone. We can ALL have a decent life and not need to kill ourselves doing it! Rock on Chelsea!!

FIRE has really taught me a lot. I started originally wanting to retire ASAP. Then I reevulated my career plan and... trying to be happy while working. Because I saved so much from 20-30 I am able to spend 30-65 making only as much money as I need to live my day to day life. No more saving for retirement needed. I plan to work a hard, stressful job part time and gain fufillment from it by helping my community. Side note, getting diagonsed and medicated for ADHD made working seem actually fufilling instead of never ending dread. :)

fun fact, if I saved every penny I made starting this year (which...is not possibly given that I need to do things like eat and go to the dentist), I could retire super early at the age of...65. And in that case, hyper restriction seems so counter intuitive.

I use to listen to a bunch of other personal finance KZfaqrs until I found you, a fellow dem socialist! I SO value your perspective on personal finance and how it intersects with our rigged system.

I've posted about retiring before (happened last week, and being just about 55, it's kind of early), and I'll just re-enforce Chelsea's point about setting a plan early and just doing your best about that. BUT, at the same time as my happy day, quite a few other fellow employees found out on Wed that they were retiring the same time as me. While I recognize that the DIY aspect is, well... the fact that many didn't get to retire on their terms reminds me that planning as early as you can is super important. But for most people, we work so that we can live. So please keep some balance.

The big motivator for FIRE for me is that I want enough financial security to have options if things got ugly at work.

I can’t enjoy my life if I have to work a job I hate, this is what inspired me to persue FIRE

When you say FIRE movement, I can’t help but mistaking it as FYRE Festival. 😁

Great video!! Now I have more knowledge about finance. I spent 20 years in the military and unfortunately did not save in a TSP. I am fortunate enough to be retired at age 42 with a profit from my investments and pension. I wouldn't have been able to live my current lifestyle without couple of investment. After taxes I am left with about 25,000 bucks a month, I am debt free and just now starting to invest in real estate. I don't plan on working for someone else ever again. I just live a modest life and now invest heavily in the market with the help of an IA. I do get a 2-3% raise every year for inflation and this income is for the rest of my life. I am blessed and now I live a great stress free life while investing while I am retired.

I love when Chelsea comes for the system and points out that individuals are typically not to blame for not being rich!!

Thanks for this! I respect the FIRE community and love a lot of bloggers from there... But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit resentful because most of them are super young, had NO student loans, and landed 6 figure jobs very quickly.

I appreciate this take! You nicely summarize a lot of what I’ve thought and felt about the gamification of money. I think a holistic view is much more realistic, accessible and necessary.

the main thing is how they claim to retire early when they're making money through blogs and what not

such a timely video for me! finally getting back into FIRE. I absolutely disagree with saving every dollar and avoiding fun at all costs but I loooove an anti-consumerist perspective when it comes to spending. in short, it feels like planning your fun so its not impulsive and detrimental to your financial and physical/mental health goals!

No shade but I have very similar feelings about influencers like Aja Dang who say claimed that a lot of people can pay off six-figure debt in less than 2 years because she did...by launching a six-figure media business. For me, some lessons from the FIRE movement seemed _relatively_ more in my control, as in, statistically, I was more likely to get a better job with re-training than I was having a massively successful online business. Edit: I'm also not crazy about becoming a landlord to do it, like Budget Girl. Landlords disenfranchise a lot of people! Not only their tenants, but people who want to buy their primary residence. I still recognize a lot of economic setbacks are systemic. In fact, I wouldn't need to save so much with Medicare4All, UBI, and other programs, so I wouldn't care if I had less returns long-term. The money is just for the goods and services, not the goal! I'm just terrified of living in a roach motel when I'm an old lady...

This was just a rambling post that went in way too many directions. Try to focus.

I’ve always remembered this one FIRE blog post called “pizza delivery is for millionaires” and it talked literally about how, unless you’re a multi millionaire, you’d be crazy to order pizza delivery. Instead you should make and freeze your own pizzas at home. Ok my husband and I enjoy making pizza at home as a hobby, but come on. Living a life where you’re afraid that a $30 pizza delivery is going to wreck your retirement doesn’t sound like much of a life. And just like Chelsea said, it ignores so many macro factors that have a waaaay bigger impact on your finances then whether you order pizza or not 🙄

Your description of the FIRE movement seems pretty disconnected from what I've seen from the FIRE movement. I have not seen anyone in the FIRE movement shame people for their choices. Most people talking about FIRE want to move beyond their 9-5 job but also want to share the tools that they used or are using to get there so that others can get there too. I've never seen anyone shame or put down someone for choosing a less lucrative career that makes the path to FIRE slower.

I was curious about Chelsea's thoughts about FIRE, and she didn't disappoint! It's true, the ability to even strive for FIRE is a massive privilege in the first place. It's also predicated on and supporting of an unsustainably runaway stock market. No one can FIRE off green stocks alone (yet); most prefer index funds that tend to support (currently) overvalued tech stocks, which encourages this capitalist spiral. Thanks for the video--you've earned an RSVP for the Summit from me.

I think the idea of living for retirement, and therefore wanting to retire as soon as possible, is a massive wrong turn. If you watch some of the investment ads, the message that comes across is that real life doesn't begin until retirement. If you manage to retire, say, twenty years before you could collect Social Security, that still leaves a big chunk of your time on earth as an essentially meaningless grind, a mere prelude to "real life." I would rather live in such a way that at every stage, real life is now. Find dignity in your work, for your labor is contributing to society. Try to find so much meaning in it that you wouldn't mind if you ended up doing it for most of your life. If you reach a point where you can't work, either temporarily or permanently, find ways to make meaning in that. As someone disabled by a long cancer battle, I do not say that lightly. Enjoy whatever recreation you manage to work into each stage of life, but pay attention to whether it is just "play time" or a genuine spiritual pursuit. Living to play is more pathetic than living to work. Many retired people find that it is less satisfying than they expected to be on vacation for the rest of their lives, and start itching to do work that makes a contribution again. Find meaning in your work, in your recreation, and in your inactivity, and manage your money in ways that facilitate all of it.

I’d love to FIRE. I will be able to retire at 45…only issue is, health problems in my family make me fear for my 40s. I may get an easy but low-paying government job just for the healthcare. Or BaristaFIRE. Whatever I need to do to have health insurance. Ideally, I’d work for a state university and get free college classes. For fun. Wouldn’t that be awesome?! Also, note my LeanFIRE goal is essentially 133% poverty level. So not luxurious. But I’d rather be frugal and not work than be stressed out like I am now.

The fiery people that I know don't actually retire. They just get the piece of mind that if something goes wrong, they can keep their lifestyle for a long time before they get into trouble. At a certain point they get less frugal, but they still don't accumulate useless stuff that fills up their apartment.

My main problem with the various financial freedom movements is that often it boils down to “become a landlord”, which I find really gross considering you’re basically hoarding very limited and vital resources so you can make more money.

Some ppl are born worker bees. They work, either working or working to save money. They get depressed when there is no “work” in life but sipping cocktail on the deck. Some ppl work in order to enjoy sipping cocktail on deck during non working hours. They may not retire early but they would certainly have memory of good times. I didn’t wait until retirement to enjoy life; done a whole lot of activities and fun things while working. I have 2 more months to retirement. At 57 I am planning to actively accumulate more fun memories until my body isn’t able to carry me.

*When it comes to investment, diversification is key. That is why I have my interests set on key sectors based on performance and projected growth. They range from the EV sector, renewable energy, Tech and Health.*

You are certainly correct in your assumption that a well-off DINK from NYC can't really relate to the average working American outside her Manhattan bubble. I was stupid for over 40 years, spent everything I made, yet after discovering fire, became a millionaire in as little as 9 years, just by not being stupid any longer.

Do you know why I sort of embraced FIRE? Worked massive amount of overtime and spent a lot of time away from my kids just to get a 2% increase in pay. I then find out companies that pay dividends hand out 5-10% increases on the regular. Every purchase I make I try to off set it with a dividend stock of equivalent value. Yes my wife took care of the kids while I worked but I also saved 2/3rd of my checks and paid off all my credit card debt, house and both cars by the time I was 38. This allowed us to swap roles so she could go after the career she wanted helping disabled kids in a job that is not huge pay but she never has to worry about being stressed about bills. I am also a realist. We are 30 trillion dollars in debt with a country slowly shifting further and further to the right in terms of power so the chances that Republicans try to raise my retirement age to 70 for SSI is extremely high to try to save it from being cut. Also yeah to fully benefit from FIRE you basically are living like a hermit for a year or two but by 2 month into it you have already saved up more money than 60% of the people you walk by that do not even have a $1,000 saved up.

I like the general mindset of "cull the things you really don't need, and don't lifestyle creep," and a some of their budgeting advice can be genuinely good, but many/most of the FIRE pros I've read don't talk about if/when to pull back from a low-spend lifestyle (generating shame for *gasp* enjoying things that aren't on the discount rack), and there's a lot of push to make "Passive" income through blogs, classes, content production, and real estate, all of which I see as other jobs, and wouldn't work if everyone did. It feels disingenuous that they've side stepped into a different profession (that they greatly enjoy, which is fine), and then falsely claim they've taken up the "Retire Early" side of the moniker.

FIRE is not for everyone. But it works for us right now. As someone who has been FIRE for going on a year I can tell you that America's healthcare makes it very difficult to do. We are healthy able bodied people who saved for these huge emergencies and navigating healthcare is STILL a challenge. That said, even if temporary our family will be better for having FIREd (slowly and carefully mind you) rather than not at all.

I remember starting to get involved in the fire community and my wife thought it was disgusting. She had the same idea of those early notable few people and hated the idea. Now she's really onboard and much happier knowing it's not about killing ourselves, it's just planning for our retirement in a reasonable way. 100% agree that there is so many people out there that simply can't get ahead due to what card they've be dealt at birth, whether environmental or not. Very happy to live in Australia where although things aren't perfect, opportunities are more abundant than the US.

1. Clearly identify your values. 2. Align your spending accordingly and be intentional. 3. Work hard and live below your means. 4. Invest the difference in all market index fund and stay the course. This is a recording.

As a Dane I am SO shocked to hear that you don't have paid maternity leave in the US

Basically, the FIRE movement entices a certain personality and not unclusive of other socioeconomic spectrums. It's like they think people exist in a vacuum separate from society.

Maxing for money is the ultimate time hack. Once you have enough you don't have to trade your time for money anymore.

It's a lot easier to say, Hey, take it easy on the workload and frugality! when you're already secure. Few people are very secure, and young people least of all. Arthur Miller said "There are no second acts in American lives." Things are changing a bit now as jobs and their tenure are becoming more fluid -- tech jobs at least -- but it's still true for most traditional jobs. You have to hustle damn hard and probably have a good bit of luck to come out of your youthful years feeling secure. Nobody's going to give it to anyone but the lucky, so not working more and harder than you might consider sensible, fair, or humane is not an option, anymore than not eating all those rice and beans, ramen noodles, and spaghetti meals are in college. (Took me almost ten years to be able to eat spaghetti again.)

I think in general the ideas underlying the FIRE movement are great, it's not perfect and some people take it too far, but if everyone applied these concepts to their lives it would be amazing. I do it for the environmental impact of not buying stuff, not so much for the saving money part honestly.

1. This is such a valuable take on what financial independence really means for the individual. 2. Where are your glasses from!?

She turned this into a political discussion.

Ole 👏 👏👏 Brilliant and thorough analysis. As a European, I shiver at the inequality of the USA. The individualistic obsession prevents the American society from improving the quality of life of all its citizens. The USA is not a first world country; rather a country where some areas have a first world quality of life whereas others have levels of poverty comparable to developing countries.

Never got too deep into FIRE (my introduction to nonstandard personal finance was "The Four-Hour Work-Week" (which, by the way, does not work, but contains a few good ideas along with plenty of bad)) but hey what's exactly wrong with being a suburban software architect who spends like one or two social classes lower on the totem pole? Once you're earning, say, 150% of the median (after debt service), then more money and stuff physically can't make you that much happier. Time spent with friends and doing what you enjoy seems like a good goal. Personally what bugs me about FIRE more generally is the effects of rent-seeking behavior. If everyone did FIRE, then everyone would have to do FIRE just to get by. So, it might be interesting to take a deeper dive into how we can promote the public well-being from a variety of current status positions.

A big problem is that we've had economic productivity increases like crazy over the past few decades, especially in a lot of white collar office work. Yet we're stuck in this 40 hour 8-5 work day when a lot of work can be done in a matter of hours. It's just a massive waste of life to only get a handful of weeks of vacation per year and be expected to slave away 5/7 days week in and week out. That being said, I could choose to only work 500-1000 hours per year, but I'd rather just get the heavy lifting done with to buy my freedom and then scale it back to those types of hours. Might as well leverage compounding. I'm not a big fan of giving power to the state, but I'll have to admit that some things in Canada and the EU push more towards real work/life balance and that it would be good. I'd be a fan of pushing towards balance and reform in the working area.

For me, regardless of whether or not I can actually retire early, it feels like just good financial hygiene? Especially in an environment where the government isn't under any obligation to ensure my security.

I just find the FIRE movement slightly depressing. If you are working every day in the pursuit of quitting, you're in the wrong profession. I got into FIRE for a while and then I just realised I think I just don't like where I'm at in life. I think I may be harbouring regret for choosing the career direction I chose, so maybe I'm projecting. It just seems like if you aren't happy, change your life and pursue happiness NOW rather than for when you retire. I like to think it's possible to change your life so you don't spend a huge amount of time focusing on retirement, that shouldn't be your focus. Save yes, but it's like you post-pone enjoyment until retirement, ie eating at nice restaurants, enjoying slightly expensive exercise classes... you may not even live as long as you imagine you will.

Our goal with personal finance is to be financially independent at 45. Note, not to retire at 45, that sounds boring. But being at a financial point in which we have basic security met in passive income and savings so that we could work any part-time job in order to be part of our society, keep social contact and a fulfilling activity that provides with income for more luxurious things. This retiring at 30 mentality seems so weird to me. Even if you reach that and have enough money to pursue hobbies, most of you friends do not have that. No co-workers, no friends and having to keep yourself on a schedule for at least 40 years seems a bit... meh.

I guess I'd never seen those hyper individualistic FIRE blogs and I just hung out on reddit so for me the movement was just chill. I would add though, that I am not American, I'm from Spain, and even in countries like mine, where we technically have a social safety net, healthcare, and a government pension at retirement age, the actual situation is that it's basically common knowledge that due to the huge amount of debt, decline in natality, etc, we younger people are gonna have a hell of a hard time retiring confortably. To me the FIRE movement was appealing because I cannot change the fuckin policies of the whole country that bounces between governments every 8 years making fake promises, I can just focus on what I can control. Make more (get into tech). Spend less (live with the parents). Easy. Does it suck? Maybe a bit. Is it individualistic? Maybe. I just cannot be bothered to think of the social viability of every path I take. As you said, you're a Manhattan living DINK female CEO, you care about your employees and your family, you cannot start thinking about if your revenue model of having a youtube channel and making $25 online events is something that literally every american citizen can follow as a living example, you just gotta make your bag and try to add value but cannot focus on whether it's the ultimate social good spreader or whatever. maybe it'd be "More accessible" if it was free, maybe the people who need that value the most are actually the ones who can't pay. idk. and idc either, it's just how you've chosen to do this event, it seems like it was a good event, end of story. Same with how I approach the FIRE movement. Are tech salaries higher than average? yeah. is remote much more common practice in tech? yes. am i trying to get into tech so i can keep low CoL while earning highly? yeah. Can everyone do this? IDK. I know imma try though, i'm getting my english knowledge up, i'm getting my coding abilities up, i'm getting my networking up, etc etc. I'm doin the steps. If it's individualistic to make choices like these because not everyone has the privilege, or the opportunities, or the "talent" or w/e, then i guess I am individualistic. But then I would also question what "not being individualistic" entails. Is it just following the ebbs and flows of whatever surrounds you whether unnecessarily consumeristic. I agree with fighting for social freedoms but I cannot take the win for granted, and when the social safety nets inevitably get taken away I gotta be ready

Admitting that the game is rigged is all fine and dandy, but if you're waiting for other people to band together in solidarity to change that rigged system before doing anything, you're going to be waiting a very long time for things to change for the better! I don't have the patience to sit around and wait for that change, and if that makes me individualistic, then so be it. And I say this as someone who is very left-leaning on issues concerning the general welfare of all citizens.

Thank you for reorienting the conversation to the fact that we can have more sustainable work/life balance on the daily if we only put the policies in place (like other countries have done) to make that possible. The highly individualist approach to finances is exhausting.

Thanks for turning the focus back to structural changes that could make ALL of our lives better (instead of just the wealthiest among us).

I dated a guy who became a fire bro one year into our relationship. I found there was a lot of hypocrisy in how he viewed our finances. When I spent money on my appearance that was wasteful. But when he spent money on beer or alcohol that was apparently okay. I can comfortably say I will never date someone who does FIRE again. Having to convince your s.o to spend your combined money on dates or dining out isn't fun.

Yeah I also don’t love the FIRE movement - there are better ways in my opinion, or at least more hybrid options

A hobby is something we do for fun when we're not working. A job is a specific task that someone does to earn money. I retired from my boring job after 24 years. Now, I am happy with a profitable hobby. Less income but happier. Life is a mist !.. short lived !!...

So I get mixed feelings when I watch your videos and maybe I misconstrue your messaging. One thing I "hear" is New York rocks, the flyover states... Well just don't live there. Also I don't understand the character you create to specific detail of demonizing a white male software engineer trying to save money. Why is the gender and race and profession important? Aren't you a high earning woman? The point I'm making is that wealth inequality is the problem. I acknowledge that it is skewed but impacts an enormous part of the population regardless of categories. So the concept of spending less and saving to extremes like you say isn't entirely feasible for all. I do agree the system sucks.... And that is amplified by SCOTUS and other parts of the government using the smoke screen of "let's shake up abortion rights again" vs actually making any progress to help out even out the wealth gap of the American public. It's more broken then ever.... Except in New York, maybe?

Its both!! Your choices and your environment greatly impact your results!

she's our moral goddess of power. only her hotness transcends her wisdom. she knows the answers, we must simply listen. she is not childless, for we are her children.

yess chelsea. I am also a leftist and we always must acknowledge how the system is deeply racist, classist, etc (rigged). However, there is always an individual component to personal finance. and if we have goals like FIRE, we have to have the individual tools to help get us there, alongside constantly advocating for systemic change.

I traded in FIRE for Balance, and I couldn't be happier (am male software engineer living somewhere inexpensive)

I feel like FIRE really overlooks people who went out of their way, and likely accepted a lower salary, in order to get a job that they enjoy and that is meaningful to them and others. If when you think about what you would do if you didn't have to worry about money, the best thing is if it resembles your current job. Work can be really meaningful and give structure to your life, and for the people you affect with work too. I don't see the appeal of trying to retire at a young age. Now, getting financial independence-- to start your dream business? Or to take the kind of job you've always wanted but that doesn't pay much/anything? To be able to actually do a hobby you love (which costs money)? Or even to be able to make riskier but more interesting and impactful investments? So you can keep making money but can take it easy if old age hits you hard? Now those things I understand. Why would anyone want to retire halfway through life just to goof around and get drunk on the beach? The whole concept needs to be reframed. The idea that the meaning your work has for yourself and others is zero and doing nothing with yourself should be the end goal is indeed some of the most meaningless hyperindividualist drivel I can think of.

IMHO, fire movement is about “buying freedom.” This concept has been around FOR GENERATIONS before it was “trendy.” There were books written about this from the 1800s. My own parents retired in their early 50s and they had zero regrets. All they did was spend less than they earned and invested the rest. My great grand mother had done this too and retired about 50… she was a private nurse to wealthy people and her clients gave her advice similar to “FIRE.” She ended up owning 10 houses by time she was in her 60s and she lived off of rental income. She never had a fancy college degree or anything and her parents were farmers!

Somehow I’m not clicking on the FIRE movement that were advocated, my FIRE is financial independence for recreational employment.

Hi TFD. I've been following your KZfaq channel for a few years. I really appreciate and enjoy the critical and detailed look at finances, the financial system, the corporate structure, and why or why we cannot build wealth. One major omission on TFD and nearly every other financial blog, vlog, and KZfaq channel is the cost of health insurance in the US. No one talks about tying healthcare to employment and why that ball and chain keeps people from true financial freedom. No one discusses how the cost of healthcare, the monthly cost of self-insuring, keeps people poor and sick, prevents many people, particularly those with dependents from starting a business venture, innovating, taking risks. For those who achieve FIRE, I would like to know how they are covering healthcare, particularly 10, 15, 20 years down the road, when they are still too young for Medicare.

would really like a video about gambling (especially seniors gambling). sorta like what to do if a loved one falls into the system

I think culturally we need a movement for people that is more realistic but fair. "NRWH" Never Retire Work Healthier. So many of us can't even imagine being able to retire, but we need a way to fight and bargain for a dignified working life and unstressed time off. (AND upend our healthcare system for the better of everyone) This is why I'm prob labor movement. Even when a person gets to so called "retirement age" many continue to work part time or change to slower forms of work that are accessible to the elderly.

Broad critiques on the phenomenon. Nice to hear a balanced, critical perspective. Thanks!

I LOVE this video! So many valid criticisms of the FIRE movement while still acknowledging what's good about it. While it's great to adopt a savers mindset and encourage people to invest for their future, the FIRE movement does often involve extreme levels of frugality among high-income individuals that is just not possible for most people. Many people have expenses or dependents that cannot be avoided or just want to live a little and go to that concert or take a vacation now rather than wait until they are in their 40's or older to enjoy. More social safety nets related to housing, healthcare, parental time off, etc. could also go a long way towards helping people live a more relaxed, secure lifestyle in the first place.