ANALOGUE TAPE in a DIGITAL AGE part 3: Fostex R8 in action

Рет қаралды 27,997

Күн бұрын

Hear the revamped and lined up tape recorder in action with some drum grooves! But have a look at parts 1 and 2 - these are the necessary maintenance parts that enabled part 3!
0:00 introduction
0:43 time to record!
1:27 high level to tape - hear the compression offered by the tape..
1:54 a comparison of the two recordings - digital and analogue
3:33 round-up..
Go on - you know you want one.....
Here's where to get a test tape: www.canford.co.uk/MRL-TEST-TAPES
Here's where to get blank tape: www.tapecity.co.uk/

Пікірлер: 96

@vintageMIDI 2 жыл бұрын

Useful comparison. Back in the day analog wasn't so expensive but digital was, now it's reversed. Yo've gotta really love the sound of analog and be willing to maintain the machines. When it's done right it has some magic. Your brother grooves big time, making the analog sound even better!

@alexandrekhazal5966 5 жыл бұрын

I did not realize the sound I had always been looking for was actually tape. Thank you for a great video

@Geekermo 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you thank you for these Fostex R8 series, I bought one 10 years ago and I've recorded many songs on it but never managed how to properly adjust it. In this recoding you get in the fostex a lovely tape saturation, it's great.

@jessihawkins9116 Жыл бұрын

if you can’t use it give it to me

@Vladislaw81 6 жыл бұрын

Fostex R8 sounds way better.

@hughchapman5319 2 жыл бұрын

Something more open about the sound of the tape recording. Various tricks & plugins can help make the digital recording sound better of course, but it's a pleasure to have that warm open sound as a natural consequence of an analogue recording technology

@zaporozac100 5 жыл бұрын

I have Fostex R8, thank you Dan for shownig people diference between analog and digital recording, I hope that this video will stop those ignorant talking nonsense about tape recorders!

@hxhdfjifzirstc894 3 жыл бұрын

He didn't show anybody anything, unfortunately... except that he doesn't understand the difference between proper analog levels and proper digital levels. They're totally different and that's why he got bad results.

@EdMelendez 5 жыл бұрын

Love that high end.

@malcolmbliss777 3 жыл бұрын

I had the R8 when it first came out (1990). What an incredible machine. Wish I would’ve kept it.

@jessihawkins9116 Жыл бұрын

it came out in 1989 🙄

@malcolmbliss777 Жыл бұрын

@@jessihawkins9116 Ordered it in Sept of ‘89, as I remember. Didn’t arrive until January.

@NME_REK 11 ай бұрын

Dam that sounds so much better on the Fostex

@lucasweisman3046 3 жыл бұрын

Super informative! Thanks!

@joldschool64 4 жыл бұрын

You can never go wrong with analog

@dbo514 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Dan, what's a good price for these do you think. What you paid is insanely cheap but something more realistic?

@canaldavidaproducoes 3 жыл бұрын

Top pra sempre fostex r8

@billymack4258 5 жыл бұрын

Great video! I have a Fostex R8 and a Fostex G24 Do you know how to sync R8 or G24 with my DAW cubase pro , apollo 6x? I would be willing to pay someone to help me with that. Thanks

@renevalle826 4 жыл бұрын

It seems that the tape recorder gets more of the High freq instead of the laptop that catches more the mids of the recording material. Great video !

@wehappyfewmusic 2 жыл бұрын

Great comparison, I wish I could find a working R8 for £20. Prices have shot up in the last 4 years! 😅

@LittleZdy 3 жыл бұрын

i used to have one of them, sold it to fund a TASCAM TSR-8

@MrSychophant 3 ай бұрын

I use logic 10 and I have Fostex E16. I’ve never compared the two back to back, so I thought your demonstration was useful.

@christopherdunn317 6 жыл бұрын

its interesting when i used my four track machine and did a side by side play back this is what i noticed as well the freq are much more noticeably than on the digital its like you noticed that the digital is just plain and flat, where the tape shines out in the highs.

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

I think it's modern tape formulations that are more difficult to bias on the machine: the trouble with the R8 is that there are only two heads, so you can't see what you adjust while recording, and the fact that the bias control is ultra sensitive makes it tricky. Still, I'd rather have more treble than less, as reducing it on playback cuts tape hiss anyway!

@KingBlonde 6 жыл бұрын

And cutting highs is a lot more pleasant than adding highs. As boost EQ isn't great for surgical EQ and high freq stuff, whereas subtractive EQ is the way to go for these functions.

@apislapis 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video series Dan. I found the section on demagnetisation so informative. I inherited an Akai GX4000D a couple of years ago which really needs a full service, but not sure who to trust to do it near Merseyside. I'd love to use it in my synth studio to add a touch of saturation to my vintage synths. That's why I think your video is still relevant in 2021/22. Thank you Dan, loving your studio/man cave. Subbed.

@jaakkoheikura6429 6 жыл бұрын

Could you explain how you have routed the R8 with your mixer and computer? I'm interested in analogue tape recording but I don't have any experience in that area. For example do you use the preamps from your mixer or some other way? Thank you for these great videos and greetings from Finland!

@stephenbaldassarre2289 6 жыл бұрын

Jaakko Heikura The most efficient way to integrate analogue recording is to use insert cables to route the mixer's preamps to the tape recorder and the signal passes through the rest of the mixer from there. The computer is just fed by the mixer's buss outputs.

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

Here, my desk has two sets of outputs: the buss outs, and direct outs of every channel. The way my desk works is that the direct out of channels 1-8, and 9-16 can be switched either to the individual outs, or to the busses instead, so channels 1 and 9 can be fed to buss 1, 2 and 10 to buss 2, etc. Flexible!

@RoscoLevee 4 жыл бұрын

@@DanBakerMusic this is really fantastic. But could you explain how it is all connected? I have a very similar set up and need tobuse tape and mac to record and mix. It's a real mess here at the moment, getting it all together.

@richardchristie 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Dan, please could you explain how you have simultaneously split the signals from the microphones to both the tape machine and the sound card?

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Richard - I sent the output of the 8 buses of the mixing desk to both the soundcard and the tape machine - the input impedance of both devices is high enough not to affect the output capabilities of the mixing desk...

@richardchristie 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the quick reply! Right I see, so did you use something like a half-normalled patch bay or another passive splitting method, rather than a system with transformer/active elements?

@pauliamsocool 5 жыл бұрын

are you using Ampex 457 or rmgi lpr35? or something else? what's your opinion on tape for the r8?

@mask57000 4 жыл бұрын

Hey, if i can help, i have a fostex R8 to record my music, and the best tape for it, is Recording the masters, RPM LPR90

@domdraper3221 3 жыл бұрын

If you ignore the massive boost to the high end... the tape recording of the drums sounds slightly compressed. I feel like my tape machine adds a better colour to the sound.

@DanBakerMusic 3 жыл бұрын

Yes-the bias is a pig to get right on these machines as it’s hyper sensitive and of course only a combination head...!

@domdraper3221 3 жыл бұрын

@@DanBakerMusic I just got one of these tape machines with a vintage mixer. I’m super excited to see how it all goes. So now I have two tape machines.

@soundscenesdcmusicmedia2709 5 жыл бұрын

There's a clear, prominent high-end boost on the playback of the R8 vs teh digital... this goes way beyond just digi/analog- characteristics... what are your rec-vs-PB response measurements (say at 50-100-1k-5k-10k- 20k) on the R8 at -20... -10... 0... and +10?

@johanfwahlberg 3 жыл бұрын

So I'm keeping my R8, I guess.

@bryanciliberto 3 жыл бұрын

I have a question. I recently acquired a working Fostex R8. My idea was the same as you demonstrate here. I want to track drums on tape and dump into my Pro Tools session. My question may be obvious, but I can't tell for sure. When I track onto the R8, while simultanously recording into Pro Tools. is the signal coming out off the R8, coming off the tape head or do I have to dump the R8's recording after it's been tracked (from a playback). It seems like it does, but it's hard to be 100% certain. Hope my question makes sense.

@DanBakerMusic 3 жыл бұрын

The R8 will only output its signal when it plays back. While recording, the outputs of the R8 are the same as the inputs.

@bryanciliberto 3 жыл бұрын

@@DanBakerMusic Thanks!

@pcallas66 5 жыл бұрын

Tape sounds way better.

@Synth2000 4 жыл бұрын

what interface were you using for the computer?

@DanBakerMusic 4 жыл бұрын

David here i used a MOTU 828 Mkii...

@keithrichards4296 8 ай бұрын

OK something wrong here. Tape *gently* rolls off/softens HF, not the opposite like in your test. Actually freq response *should be* pretty much close in both.

@thallrudedjentstorm1756 10 ай бұрын

Actually this Fostex sounds biased wrong to me. Maybe the EQ on the machine is set to high? But it sounds more like wrong bias. It's a very drastic sound difference. Good video tho. Thanks!

@spottedliver 5 жыл бұрын

Sounds better than a Doctor Who episode.

@albertrobin9621 Жыл бұрын

Where can I buy good tape?! Thanks!!

@DanBakerMusic Жыл бұрын

I haven’t looked in a while but I bought mine from Thomann.

@cristhiantoro851 6 жыл бұрын

Amazing! I insist, the analog tape recording studios should return! the digital world sucks!

@pauliamsocool 5 жыл бұрын

I'm in the process of building an analog recording studio for bands. I'm using this very machine, to start with. Along with some Tube Mics. I'm going old school Glyn Johns on drums etc.

@57too 5 жыл бұрын

CORRECT!!! The menu surfing alone with DAWs is ridiculous, not to mention the many thousands of things you can get distracted by with DAWs....as opposed to tape which is intuitive with actual real life tape machine and mixer knobs! You record FASTER with much more FEELING on a tape machine. Death To DAW!

@alphanumeric1529 4 жыл бұрын

There is something wrong with your motu, for that much high frequency to be missing. There is just something not right going on with that sound comparison.

@DanBakerMusic 4 жыл бұрын

alpha numeric I think it’s something to do with the biassing of the tape machine! It does sound a little unstable now....

@spottedliver 5 жыл бұрын

I'm going to but his book. " A Higher Degree Of Fizziness"

@DogSerious 4 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't that hurt a little? You would have to use some kind of lubricant or you'll be feeling it the next day!

@samot1808 2 жыл бұрын

To me it sounds like 10khz is too high on the Fostex, maybe the hifreq calibration was not spot on?

@DanBakerMusic 2 жыл бұрын

It’s most likely to be the bias: a nearly impossible task to set up properly on a two head system..

@BrazillianFOsho 2 жыл бұрын

wow the fostex recording sounds more open for some reason

@DanBakerMusic 2 жыл бұрын

It’s very hard to set up the bias on a two head machine like this. Also, modern tape formulations do tend to offer more top end...

@rj_ramon 5 жыл бұрын

20!?! How?! I can’t seem to find one under 600

@koyaanisqatsi316 3 жыл бұрын

Don't expect a mint one for 20 bucks. My Tascam TSR-8 with a bunch of reels did cost €100 but it had a couple of little issues. And I got a Brenell mini 8 for free.

@bbllaanncc 2 жыл бұрын

how on earth did you get it for just £20?

@DanBakerMusic 2 жыл бұрын

It basically didn’t work. I had some remedial repairs to do!

@spottedliver 5 жыл бұрын

Tell the drummer he's hired, but he's going to have to put on pants.

@alanhaynes418 3 жыл бұрын

The computer sounds really flat and boring compared to the R8. I have been offered a Brenell 1 inch mini 8 which I am seriously contemplating getting.

@TerraNovaSpirit 10 ай бұрын

🙏🏼🇨🇦♥️🌹🌺🌻🌸🌼🙏🏼

@DAIMANization 5 жыл бұрын

I want to say that digital version sound really dull and thin lifeless compared to the analogue version I want a reel to reel but for mastering stage. Hard to find one that reasonable money but offers good quality.

@hxhdfjifzirstc894 3 жыл бұрын

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of proper input levels. To record INTO a computer, your peaks on the digital meter should be around -18dBFS (NEGATIVE 18). This gives you 18dB of headroom before you start clipping. If you INSIST on cranking up the gain until your digital meter hits nearer to 0dB (because you think it looks better) then your ANALOG GAIN STAGES are going to be running at +18dB (POSITIVE 18), when they are meant to run around 0dB. And yes, you do have analog stages in the AD converter. Get it? UNDERSTAND THIS. 0dB in the comptuer is +18dB in the ANALOG world. It's not about how bad digital sucks. It's the fact that idiots are cranking up their preamps all the way to +18dB just to get the digital meter closer to 0dBFS. Facepalm. The trick is to keep your analog gear all the way down where it should be (use your analog meters) and record digitally at -18dbFS. AFTER it's already recorded, normalize the wave file to whatever level works best with your digital plugins.

@firecatfly 2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, the adult in the room reminds everyone that the two formats are as different as Venus and Mars. Great info.

@christophermattox1820 2 жыл бұрын

Just curious, but would that, in your opinion, then settle the "fidelity debate"? I'm not a tech head. I'm a writer who produces his own stuff, has gear and likes to have fun. The analogue/ digital debate has been around for a long time. I've never really equated it to Just levels. in this debate words like "warmth" and "human feel" are often used. In listening to the example in this video I heard the difference but thought nothing of "volume" and "db levels". With the R8, there just seemed to be "more to listen to", is the best way I can describe it. I totally appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Not sure if "cranking up ... tube amps" makes people idiots though. Statements like that is usually a sign of someone with insecurities. Daddy issues and stuff. That said... you seem like you know what you're talking about. Thank you for the information.

@jessicaGarcia_Project_videos 3 жыл бұрын

Omg what would metal guitars sound like going through that 🥳

@theblowupdollsmusic 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like these examples are reversed.

@e30-88 3 жыл бұрын

Bei der Bandgeschwindigkeit, wieviel Minuten bekommst denno da auf die 500m Spule drauf?? 10-15 min ??? Das is doch en Witz !!! Vor allem zum Vergleich ne schrottige LapTop Soundkarte zu nehmen. Nimm doch mal ne aktuelle Creative Sound Blaster AE-9 Soundkarte die in der lage ist mit 32Bit und 384KHz aufzuzeichnen. Selbst meine uralt Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titan Fatal1ty Professional Series klingt mit ihren 32Bit und 96000Hz um Welten besser als dieser Steinzeit Lap Top!!! Und kommt jetzt bitte nicht mit dem Argument, ne CD hat nur 16Bit und 42KHz. Denn keine Sau nimmt noch auf CD auf!!!! Wir leben in der Zeit von NVME M2 SSD.!!! Ich hab auch noch ne kleine AKAI GX 260D und bekomme immer wieder mal meine retro Rückfälle, doch da ich nicht so realitätsferne Vergleiche mache bleibt sie wohl doch weiter ein cooles Deko Möbelstück meine AKAI!!!!!! Und auch die Fostex R8 war schon 2017 nur noch ein Relikt vergangener Zeiten. Und wenn ich heut manchmal bei eBay z.B. eine Teac X-1000 für 1350 € sehe, könnt ich mich totlachen über diese Ganztags Träumer!!!!

@koyaanisqatsi316 3 жыл бұрын

Kannst auch mit 128 bit aufnehmen aber den Klang wird davon auch nicht schöner, nur besser auf Papier. 12 bit sampler sind auf Papier völlig scheisse, hören sich aber sehr angenehm an.

@Bachelove 3 жыл бұрын

Overbiased the tape machine

@DanBakerMusic 3 жыл бұрын

Ha! I’d actually underbiased it...the trimmer pots are very sensitive and also given the combo rec/play head, it’s an utter stinker to get right. The Studer 2” machines I used to work on are a dream compared...

@Bachelove 3 жыл бұрын

@@DanBakerMusic I know how you feel, I have an MSR16. 16 tracks to calibrate with only two heads.

@DanBakerMusic 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve since rebiased the machine but done it by ear compared to the same signal through the computer, using a hi hat loop with crash cymbals. It’s been a far more sympathetic outcome!

@pearlmax 4 жыл бұрын

Basically this is Foxtex audio processing vs whatever shitty sound card is built into that old Macbook. Analog vs digital has virtually nothing to do with the difference in quality. You are making it out to be something it's not.

@DanBakerMusic 4 жыл бұрын

pearlmax I think you might have missed the sound card that I have used with the Mac, in addition to the analogue mixer used with the Fostex...

@pearlmax 4 жыл бұрын

@@DanBakerMusic Well then something else is the problem, or you sabotaged the digital version. Because guess what, the audio track in your KZfaq video is digital. Why can't people just be realistic and admit that they enjoy the nostalgia of inferior analog recordings and the hardware that reproduces it? Instead of making claims that it's superior to digital formats? Analog is NOT superior to uncompressed digital wave forms.

@DanBakerMusic 4 жыл бұрын

Who said analogue was superior? It’s different. That’s all. I, as a former audio technical engineer for EMI understand the theory. Actually, although I like the sound of LPs, they don’t compare to CDs or other uncompressed formats. It’s important to keep a level head with videos like this: it’s a simple illustration. I’ve not “sabotaged” the digital at all. If anything, the amount of bias on the tape recorder is the culprit.

@stephenbaldassarre2289 6 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a calibration issue to me. I know R8s aren't exactly "pro" machines but the sound shouldn't be that different.

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah: the biasing of these machines is really quite tricky, especially with modern tape formulations. It was a piece of cake on a Studer 24 track back in the day. Still like the fizz from the Fostex!

@stephenbaldassarre2289 6 жыл бұрын

sacredrealm You have no idea what to expect unless you at least test the calibration. It might be really close to perfect as is or it might be terrible. You can see if the machine works right first, then move on to calibration.

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah - as Stephen says - use the machine as normal and then you'll be able to hear if it needs lining up. Yes - mine is definitely different from the computer, and the bias pots on the Fostex are very sensitive - all the biasing is done within half a turn of the trimmer pot. As it's two head only, you'll have a right old time sorting it. Depending on the tape formulation (needs to be 1 mil thick ideally, rather than 1.5 mil on pro decks), the bias has to be applied over a peak in treble response. Turn the bias up until the treble response is at its highest, and then keep turning up so the resulting treble response is 2-3dB lower. This is called over-biasing: under-biasing leads to distortion. It must be remembered that a tape recorder is a musical instrument - it will always colour the sound to a certain extent. If you like what the tape deck does to your sounds, keep it!

@DanBakerMusic 6 жыл бұрын

TBH I'd avoid multitrack cassette - alignment on those is virtually impossible, and a reel to reel deck will withstand repeated use on one tape far better than cassette. It's also becoming hard to source cassettes, and you'd need Chrome ones too, for better treble response, lower noise and durability. If you have a deck with dbx noise reduction, it's just terrible! I had a Tascam Porta05 in the 1980s and much as it was amazing to have, the recordings were hideous. If you find an E16 that sounds ok, I reckon you'd have a better time with it! If you have a machine that needs small adjustments only, the chances are you could tweak it without a test tape. Just give it a proper clean and demag first..

@stephenbaldassarre2289 6 жыл бұрын

Seconded; I have a TASCAM 424MKIII (double-speed) and while it's cool/handy for what it is, it's no match for even a low-end open-reel deck. I really recommend trying to find a 3-head deck though because perfect calibration is almost impossible on a 2-head deck. Bear in mind also, if playback sounds significantly different from what you fed it, something isn't right.