Farya bro great video on the Roman music my doubts are cleared 😊 And I've a suggestion for you can you please make a combination of Epic Iranian & Chinese music to show the adventures of the Last Sasanian Prince "Peroz III" and his nobles and family members in the Tang dynasty China. (Peroz III the son of Shahanshah Yazdegerd Shahriyarzad moved to China asking for Chinese help against the Caliphate not only that some of those descendants of Peroz III later moved to Korea and Japan).

Dude! We live so close and both reconstruct ancient music. Let's be friends, maybe? I used to live in the northern island, but now I moved to the south one to be closer to my university. (My transits used to be 2 hours long.) I've lately reconstructed metrical or near-metrical rhythms for some of Jerome's Latin psalms. But my focus is Biblical Hebrew intonation and rhythm following its vocalization and prosodic orthography.

@@ShahanshahShahin when was that? Never heard about this before!

​@@Yamikaiba123we're not geographically close but I'm always up for chatting nonsense about ancient music...

You’ve uncovered our ancient conspiracy damnit

@@faryafaraji it's over, Farya Faraji! The time travelling guard is here to put an end to your meddling with history.

The exiled persian prince living in Canada, amasing wealth via making music in order to reclaim his throne.

I noticed it too and I already knew the Farya could actually be the Prince from Prince of Persia because of how they both look suspiciously similar.

Prince of Persia would probably be a good reference for Roman and Greek music because it was released right around time of second triumvirate. It’s a miracle they were able to find a publisher

In this Zimbabwe Montana, several peoples are missed. One of them Zaid Dada since 2014. There is spirit in this mountain who kidnappe human.

That and its snowy albine forests, ripe with Zimbabwe maple syrup

@@faryafaraji Truly the most lovely place in all of Africa.

Gosh, this must be an old video. Last time it snowed in Zimbabwe was 2016.

I’m so glad you heard me say this totally polite and family friendly phrase

what is funny I'm polish and understood that sentence xD

Identical phrase in slovenian. Two birds one stone :D

​@@faryafarajifacts yo

Thanks for the example, I didn’t know it even applied to American folk music!

​@@faryafaraji As a total layperson, I suspect it applies to most folk music in general. When it's actually a living tradition and not a revival from notation... It reminds me of an argument I came across a while ago regarding a modern folk-rock arrangement of a Moravian song (I think; definitely it was Czech); someone in the comments was saying "The lyrics are wrong, it should go (insert the version they were familiar with)!", and I thought back to how I had looked through an actual 19th century songbook of recorded folk songs and how there might be like three different versions recorded in three different places in the same region (with subtle differences both in lyrics and notation), and so my reaction was "Really?"

I have rewatched the video and I can confirm that it is indeed a homo sapiens in Canada speaking to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg

That’s an extremely good point, and it illustrates one of the foundational problems with the belief that notation = awareness of a music tradition: it’s extremely Eurocentric in its premise. It takes for granted that 18th century European music is a universal model and that all other music works similarly, but Hindustani Classical music, Ottoman Classical or even medieval European music don’t need or require notation the way Mozart and Bach do. What I think alot of musicologists in the 19th century missed due to a eurocentric bias is that many musical traditions derive their complexity and function from elements that aren’t written down, but this boggles the mind of anyone who has only had a Western Classical musical education since its so intimately tied to standart notation.

@@faryafaraji exactly, so true! And I appreciate the work you are doing to make people aware of this, so kudos to you! 🤗🎉

I found some reconstructions a few years ago (sorry, no links) and my first reaction was "WTF? Saracen influence or something?". :) So yeah, not what we think of as European at all.

Facts, mediaeval music sounds a lot like Arabic music, but don't take it as an insult, take it as a compliment, because I love arabic music ❤

Laval c’est la traduction française de Valinor wesh

Thanks alot!

Reject 13th century instrumentation, embrace 2000’s Linkin Park crusader music

@@faryafaraji Crusader beats after the Vatican II council do hit different

Thanks alot!

also was that a loon at 2:21

Would love to chat further x

Zimbabwe Cookie < Cookie

Zimbabwe Cookie < Cookie

Well the history of music at large is a very broad subject so to get quality books one should look for more specific elements, but given the subject matter here Martin L. West’s book on Ancient Greek music is a great read for beginners and I use it frequently as a source :)

@@servantofaeie1569 no, he just did what you described but it is in yhe style of a modern pop song, but not an actual pop song.

It's like my experience of listening to a "captured in the wild" video of a Moravian Wallachian folk song sung at a funeral in Moravian Wallachia, versus listening to that same song done by a polka-style brass band (who I'm sure would have been perfectly genuine in their belief they were preserving Czech traditions). Same melody, but the latter resulted in a deep visceral reaction of "this is utterly wrong". Most significantly, it puts a regular rhythm into a tradition that's rather notable for playing fast (well, in that case slow) and loose with it.

They are, the rockies are eerily silent to the point where it felt weird. I just threw in the first winter ambience i could find

I had a music professor once tell me that I would love Turkish Music because of the way that I spoke english. He seemed to think that the rhythms of my speech patterns due to my word choices would help me appreciate it. I don't know about that, but he was right about me liking Turkish music.....

A very interesting question so here’s a long answer to do it justice: I REALLY recommend watching my video essay “The Greco-Roman Influence on Middle-Eastern Music,” as it touches on your question. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hdCPmJyoub6xhX0.html&feature=shares In it I explain how the Hijaz maqam and Phrygian mode are both rooted originally in Greco-Roman practice, and the Arabs of the early Islamic Golden age tell us they repurpose Greek theory to build the foundations of their growing music style. The equating of Hijaz and Phrygian with Arabic culture is a very strong Western stereotype, but that’s all it is, a stereotype cultivated mostly in Western countries. Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Spain, India etc use it no less than the Arabs, and its origins as far as we know are Greco-Roman. Hijaz works just as well for Serbian and Greek themes as it does for Arabic ones if we’re going off of its actual usage rather than perceived stereotypes. In fact as a Middle-Easterner I can vouch firsthand that Hijaz isn’t even *that* important in the region’s musical catalogue; it’s just one of the many modes and isn’t more special to us than the major or natural minor are. Hollywood for some reason has a fixation on Hijaz to represent the Middle-East and I think it has given foreigners a false sense of importance to it, where really, we probably use it less frequently than Bayat/Shur or the major scale, whereas Bulgarians and Serbs use it much more systematically. As for major, it was just one of the modes in their catalogue. Greeks and Romans didn’t really alter their modes, they had just alot (like alot) of them in their catalogue, so they had Diatonic Lydian which is our typical major, and they had Dorian which is our Phrygian, and Chromatic modes which give us the Hijaz tetrachords, all of them living side by side. But as for your first question: it’s ultimately a case of wanting to showcase the reality of Roman music. We think of it as having had to sound typically Western, but I make a point of using Hijaz and Phrygian sounds to underline how not only they’re absolutely correct for the Romans, given that we know they used them, but even more interestingly, that as far as we know, Caesar heard those tetrachords before the Arabs ever did :)

Pythagorean and Just Intonation were the ones used in Antiquity, although that distinction wasn’t fundamental to the ancients. Western music today cares a whole alot about the dissonances and the wolf tones mainly because of harmony; this wouldn’t be a matter of much concern for a tradition completely devoid of harmony.

yeah, I mean... plus if all you have is pythagorean and just (rather than werkmeister I, II, III, equal, and a bajillion ways to equally divide the octave) AND you're more temporally/linearly-oriented rather than harmonically oriented, you'll be more likely to just be like "so... alpha or beta?" rather than getting into the nitty gritty and having a conference about it with the chorus-master before the beginning of the dionysia festival.@@faryafaraji

Haha well put

I’m down to taste test medieval rotten meat from the 14th century lol And yeah KZfaq is getting out of hand with its comment regulation algorithm, there’s certain random words that block comments for some reason, it also happens with links

​@@faryafaraji Yes, I initially edited my post to paste a link to some tweet where I shared your video to some game developers, then my comment was not flagged as spam but entirely deleted 🙃You may find the link in another comment I made with a game developper KZfaq account, that other comment not being actually deleted but just hidden from public as it was likely flagged as spam (but not deleted). 🤷‍♀

Great point, modern American pop is largely African derived indeed, and it applies to Ariana Grande; we refer to American forms of music as Afrological instead of Eurological. The statement in the thumbnail is mostly a shitpost though haha. The point with the Ariana Grande passage is that the melodies of her songs are mostly the same as medieval European songs, and this illustrates how melodies are too interchangeable a building block of musical traditions. Obviously Ariana Grande’s music is not actually medieval, as there’s so much African influenced filtered through jazz and blues that constitutes the incredible American pop landscape

@@faryafaraji Both genres of music are good in their own way and style.

@@greygamertales1293Definitely, their mixture made each other so much richer. Eurological excels in terms of harmony but with Afrological music we get complexities in terms of groove and rythm that Mozart could never pull off; one of the best things to happen to music imo is the mixture that happened in the US with African derived music

The weather this time of year is finally good for Canadians: the sweet spot of 10 to -10 celsius. Anything above 10 celsius is Pompeii to me

There was music notation back then, we do have extant Greek melodies that we know of due to them being notated, the problem is most of it hasn’t survived. That said, even in a culture with notation, it’s not necessary to have it in order to learn pieces of music. I can’t read any kind of notation and neither can plenty of other musicians; but it doesn’t matter if you’re working on musical traditions that don’t require notation in the first place. The improvisation question is an interesting one. We’re unsure how much of Classical Antiquity’s music was improvised; it may have been like later Medieval European music and current traditions found in the Middle-East and India where every performance is different from the other due to the presence of spontaneous improvisation evey time but I don’t think there’s any indications to conclusively support that. What’s certain is that they did learn the melodies by ear also. Notation is the odd anomaly in music history; for most of human history and culture, music was just learned by ear.

@@faryafaraji given what your channel is, I find ridiculously impressive that you can't read any kind of notation

That’s interesting, I just assumed grilled meat to be some hyper universal thing because it’s just meat + fire

@@faryafaraji you could basically say it is, but it is not just generic in that, but would even be considered atypical by medieval standards. Something like BBQ didn't exist... in the haute cuisine of the day. So it would give a wrong picture twofold. Though I guess those modern medeval grill restaurants cater to our impression of the middle ages. Large pieces of grilled meat, especially on the bone weren't considered good cuisine. You have a lot of pot boiling and roasting instead. Also meats are served small to pick up with a knife, such was regarded as more refined rather than picking up a whole piece of meat on a bone and gnawing on it, like you see in movies.

Papa Franku will always live on in our hearts

Yep

You’re right, poetry is a great tool to look into how Greek and Roman music worked. Both Greek and Roman poetry were defined by metre and rythm, not rhymes. In both languages, there were short and long vowels, so if you chose certain sequences of words cleverly, you end up with what is basically rap with a rythmic structure and groove to it. Since a culture’s language often influences its musical structure, Roman and Greek poetry can give us a clue into probable rythmic structures for their music. With Ancient Greek, it’s even more profound as we believe it had a pitch accent like modern Chinese languages. So if a word has a pitch that goes up, the melody had to go up. This means Ancient Greek has the melodic contour of the poetry infused in the text itself: the poetry already lays down the direction the melody will follow.

@@faryafaraji could also look at slavic music traditions as well? I heard they have great similarities with homers epic poems and how they recited it during 800-700 Bc. Traditions usually have traces that is either direct or indirect offsprings of older traditions

@@mustplay7212Right! Stefan Hagel does use Serbian epic poetry on the gusle as a comparison for Homeric recitations: the former today is purposefully repetitive and limited in its melodic range; only 3 to four notes are used in total and they’re used more for accentuating the metre rather than to build a melody in the typical sense. Hagel used to believe Homeric epics were also limited to four notes at most, but has since changed his view and believes it may have been more, but whatever it was, it was probably a highly, rigidly structured and repetitive delivery like Serbian epic poetry. This recitation by Silvio Zinsstag is very close to what we’re talking about: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p69goM6lm8CXeWQ.html&feature=shares

@@faryafaraji thanks for giving your time for the replies. Hope you have a great Christmas (even if you possibly dont celebrate it) ☺️ looking forward to more uploads

A great Christmas and New Year to you to!

Ah, thanks for the correction! I probably got it confused with Dagerfall, I’m pretty sure that one was randomly generated landscape wise.

When it comes to your point about Silent Night, here’s the exact same tune and lyrics with a different arrangement: m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qbdnnc-grdO-pI0.html I think you’re underestimating the degree to which arrangements differ from one another, and how completely they transform the sound and quality of the same tune. Even between today and Europe in the 1900’s. The mildest electro-pop arrangement of the tune with Ariana Grande like vocal qualities would utterly confuse a 1900’s German listening to the same tune. Would the soldier’s emotional impact be different? Absolutely. The idea that they wouldn’t react very differently if the same tune was performed with this death metal arrangement, by a Mongolian throat singer with a Moorin Khuur, or a ululating Islamic muezzin adding dozens of twirls and curls with microtonal inflection to the tune negates the fact that music lies almost entirely in how tunes are performed, and not the the tune itself. An original composition using chord progressions and harmony that WW1 era Europeans reacted more emotionally to, with familiar vocal styles and instruments would absolutely have more of an impact to them than Silent Night performed with completely foreign arrangement styles, and you only need a few decades to get to genres with said foreign styles. The point is that Silent Night isn’t Silent Night because of: G-A-G-E-G-A-G. What makes Silent Night what it is is its lyrics, its cultural arrangement style, diatonic vocal delivery with a typical European vocal techniques, etc, and it’s all of those that caused an emotional impact to the era’s soldiers; not the tune alone independent of arrangement. When you put the same tune in a Mongolian arrangement, you’re effectively dealing with another piece of music altogether.

Middle-High German yes :)